Author Topic: Exclusive John Henry Q&A  (Read 12671 times)

Offline gorgepir

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Re: Exclusive John Henry Q&A
« Reply #120 on: August 10, 2012, 01:13:55 PM »
Sorry, you can't cherry pick facts. I'm talking about this summer. The wage bill appears to be being lowered this summer. Now, many more new faces on monster money may arrive and it may prove to be that it isn't being lowered, but at the moment it is.

Kuyt, Bellamy, Maxi, Aquilani, Aurelio are senior pros who demand senior wages. Borini and Allen are promising youngsters who demand lesser wages. I'm sure Suarez' contract is more than offset by losing Kuyt, Bellamy, Maxi, Aurelio and Aquilani.

Cherry picking is choosing which facts to present to further your argument and ignoring other facts. Like ignoring the people that were bought last year and we still are paying their wages this year (like Henderson, Downing, Carroll and Adam). Like the fact that we are still paying for Aquilani and Bellamy has chosen to go for family reasons. Borini and Allen are both on wages around 40k (together around 80k), while Maxi and Kuyt were on around 80-90k  (about 170k total) (all rumoured of course). So Suarez's 35k to 95k basically offset the loss in wages from Kuyt, Maxi and Aurelio. We have reduced the wage bill yes, by around 30-40k.

Have the wages been reduced? Yes. Nothing to validate a statement like "decreasing the wage bill to cope with life outside the CL". Just normal buying and selling players (selling older players and buying younger ones).

Offline west_london_red

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Re: Exclusive John Henry Q&A
« Reply #121 on: August 10, 2012, 01:19:47 PM »
This summer? Bellamy, Aquilani, Maxi, Kuyt - who have we signed on comparable wages? I'm talking about the present, not a year ago.

The summers not over yet so surely best to wait til then, and then probably another 9 months or so til we see the accounts. Thats the only way to actually tell what going on instead of everyone guessing what wages people are on and how much we have saved/spent.

Offline RyanBabelsFish

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Re: Exclusive John Henry Q&A
« Reply #122 on: August 10, 2012, 01:26:41 PM »
Cherry picking is choosing which facts to present to further your argument and ignoring other facts. Like ignoring the people that were bought last year and we still are paying their wages this year (like Henderson, Downing, Carroll and Adam).

This is irrelevant. I am talking about what is happening this summer. I don't know why this point is lost on you.

We will see what the situation is at the end of the window and then, as mentioned above, what it is like when the accounts come out. I am baffled that you don't see the wage bill is being cut. It seems to be obvious to everyone else.

New manager Brendan Rodgers has been asked to reshape Reds as a league force but cut wage bill at the same time - http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2012/aug/08/premier-league-previews-liverpool?intcmp=122
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Offline Melbred

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Re: Exclusive John Henry Q&A
« Reply #123 on: August 10, 2012, 01:28:17 PM »
This is irrelevant. I am talking about what is happening this summer. I don't know why this point is lost on you.

We will see what the situation is at the end of the window and then, as mentioned above, what it is like when the accounts come out. I am baffled that you don't see the wage bill is being cut. It seems to be obvious to everyone else.

New manager Brendan Rodgers has been asked to reshape Reds as a league force but cut wage bill at the same time - http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2012/aug/08/premier-league-previews-liverpool?intcmp=122

It is being cut, and rightly so - too many players not worth their wages.

Offline gorgepir

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Re: Exclusive John Henry Q&A
« Reply #124 on: August 10, 2012, 01:31:25 PM »
This is irrelevant. I am talking about what is happening this summer. I don't know why this point is lost on you.

We will see what the situation is at the end of the window and then, as mentioned above, what it is like when the accounts come out. I am baffled that you don't see the wage bill is being cut. It seems to be obvious to everyone else.

New manager Brendan Rodgers has been asked to reshape Reds as a league force but cut wage bill at the same time - http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2012/aug/08/premier-league-previews-liverpool?intcmp=122

Again, you cherry picked the entire paragraph I wrote to highlight a point that you think you have. I am not saying the wage bill is not being cut, I am saying that it is being refined. People with high wages and sitting on the bench (for whatever reason) are being sold. That has nothing to do in my opinion with "coping with being out of CL". In your view it does.

As you say we will see. If we end up selling Agger because we won't offer him a better contract you are probably right. I still see us as selling older players and bringing in newer ones.

Offline RyanBabelsFish

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Re: Exclusive John Henry Q&A
« Reply #125 on: August 10, 2012, 01:40:25 PM »
Again, you cherry picked the entire paragraph I wrote to highlight a point that you think you have. I am not saying the wage bill is not being cut, I am saying that it is being refined.

Good, I'm glad you agree it's being cut.

People with high wages and sitting on the bench (for whatever reason) are being sold. That has nothing to do in my opinion with "coping with being out of CL". In your view it does.

Do you think it's sustainable for this club to have the fourth highest wages in the PL (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/may/23/premier-league-accounts-profit-debt) but no CL income?

There is a reason it's being cut. You don't cut a wage bill, which gives you a lesser chance of finishing in the top four, unless you need to.
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Offline Bakez0151

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Re: Exclusive John Henry Q&A
« Reply #126 on: August 10, 2012, 04:00:07 PM »
Good, I'm glad you agree it's being cut.

Do you think it's sustainable for this club to have the fourth highest wages in the PL (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/may/23/premier-league-accounts-profit-debt) but no CL income?

There is a reason it's being cut. You don't cut a wage bill, which gives you a lesser chance of finishing in the top four, unless you need to.

we haven't cut a wage bill until we've made all our signings, and even if we do with those signings, you don't know whether that gives us a lesser chance. can you understand this? it's foolish to complain about players being let go when we're still in the process of replacing them. the plan would be for the players to come to improve our chances.

Offline gorgepir

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Re: Exclusive John Henry Q&A
« Reply #127 on: August 10, 2012, 04:06:53 PM »
Good, I'm glad you agree it's being cut.

Do you think it's sustainable for this club to have the fourth highest wages in the PL (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/may/23/premier-league-accounts-profit-debt) but no CL income?

There is a reason it's being cut. You don't cut a wage bill, which gives you a lesser chance of finishing in the top four, unless you need to.

The bold part has nothing to do with us finishing in the top four. The proof is last season when we had a higher wage bill (and the players you mentioned) and finished 8th.

What makes teams finish top four is having the correct players for the system they are playing. Which is by getting players on low wages initially (like Suarez) and rewarding them with a better contract when they perform. If Borini performs well next year, his contract will be increased. Skrtel and Agger's contract will be increased (hopefully as I am not sure about this). When both Skrtel and Aggers contracts are signed (again hopefully) you will see that we have not reduced the wage bill at all. We are just redistributing where we are spending it.

Unless you are thinking of the Man City/ Chelsea route. In that case you have a point.

Offline justshorn

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Re: Exclusive John Henry Q&A
« Reply #128 on: August 10, 2012, 04:07:02 PM »
In the long term, rather than seeing the wage bill being brought down to reflect the quality of our players, I'm hoping to see the quality of our players being brought up to reflect our wage bill.

Offline Something Awful

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Re: Exclusive John Henry Q&A
« Reply #129 on: August 10, 2012, 04:29:19 PM »
In the long term, rather than seeing the wage bill being brought down to reflect the quality of our players, I'm hoping to see the quality of our players being brought up to reflect our wage bill.

Which is exactly the point. If we go into this season with what we have plus Allen, we'll have saved a lot in wages.

That money is "left over" at the end of the financial year. We then have that 12-15 million (?) extra to spend next summer.

OR we use it up now and improve the squad. Either way trimming the wage bill and getting rid of players that aren't going to contribute is just good business. How can you pay Aquilani 90 odd grand a week if he's not starting week in, week out? Same with Maxi and Dirkie.
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Offline RyanBabelsFish

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Re: Exclusive John Henry Q&A
« Reply #130 on: August 10, 2012, 04:43:52 PM »
The bold part has nothing to do with us finishing in the top four. The proof is last season when we had a higher wage bill (and the players you mentioned) and finished 8th.

There is an awful lot of evidence that it does, not least from Tomkins Pay as you play. One of the reviews, says this:

For too long, clubs/ managers were judged on the simplistic basis of just adding up the transfer fees they paid out. In recent years, though, some have started to think about net spending, taking into account the money recouped from player sales. The correlation between wage bills and league position has also been shown to be strong: basically, the more you pay, the higher you finish.

I'd love to see us buck the trend, but it's very, very hard. Of course, the window hasn't closed and we may bring in a whole load more players, so let's see.
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Re: Exclusive John Henry Q&A
« Reply #131 on: August 10, 2012, 04:47:13 PM »
There is an awful lot of evidence that it does, not least from Tomkins Pay as you play. One of the reviews, says this:

For too long, clubs/ managers were judged on the simplistic basis of just adding up the transfer fees they paid out. In recent years, though, some have started to think about net spending, taking into account the money recouped from player sales. The correlation between wage bills and league position has also been shown to be strong: basically, the more you pay, the higher you finish.

I'd love to see us buck the trend, but it's very, very hard. Of course, the window hasn't closed and we may bring in a whole load more players, so let's see.
There is a correlation.....

But if you go bust from paying big wages then it's just a short term decision.....

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Offline CraigDS

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Re: Exclusive John Henry Q&A
« Reply #132 on: August 10, 2012, 04:47:45 PM »
I'd love to see us buck the trend, but it's very, very hard. Of course, the window hasn't closed and we may bring in a whole load more players, so let's see.

We have been bucking the trend. In the last few years we have had exceptionally higher wages than a few of the teams finishing above us.

It's about having value for the wages being paid. We could have a 200m wage bill, but if the players aren't worth their wage then we could still be relegated. FSG appear to be cutting the dead wood (in fact Rodgers seems to be making those decisions, Kenny before him) which will allow for the wage bill to be at a level where those on it are earning that amount. Paying large amounts won't be an issue (see Suarez new deal) if that player deserves to be on a large amount.

Offline Bob Loblaw

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Re: Exclusive John Henry Q&A
« Reply #133 on: August 10, 2012, 04:52:19 PM »
In the long term, rather than seeing the wage bill being brought down to reflect the quality of our players, I'm hoping to see the quality of our players being brought up to reflect our wage bill.

One follows the other, both the same thing.

As for the Q&A, can tell a lot of thought went into the questions, so it was a bit cringing to read some of Henry's replies, very vague, and didn't address any of the points raised directly.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2012, 04:54:44 PM by Bob Loblaw »

Offline justshorn

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Re: Exclusive John Henry Q&A
« Reply #134 on: August 10, 2012, 04:58:59 PM »
One follows the other, both the same thing.

As for the Q&A, can tell a lot of thought went into the questions, so it was a bit cringing to read some of Henry's replies, very vague, and didn't address any of the points raised directly.

Disagree that they are both the same. One is paying little money to low quality players while the other is paying a lot of money to high quality players.

We don't know for sure yet which approach the club have adopted. Everything is just speculation.

Offline m4Rco

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Re: Exclusive John Henry Q&A
« Reply #135 on: August 11, 2012, 12:14:09 AM »
To be fair to them, we had a good amount of money to spend in the last two summers. This year we already spend 24m on transfers, thats alot of money. And I'm sure there is maybe one more player coming in.

Until now they financially backed the managers spot on.
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