Topic: Roberto Firmino

[GreatEx]

Relieved to see it's not another Hendo/Mo length contract, we've learned our lesson. Having added 3 forwards already this season, it makes sense to leave that area alone for a year or two.

See, I just knew I'd be able to rationalise another old man deal. I love our boys too much!

[JackWard33]

Just move on Jurgs …. from anyone

[Eeyore]

Great to know FSG is in charge of playing personnel and overrule Jurgen when it comes to existing players and transfers.

I wonder who John Henry thinks we should go buy next and for how much. Or is it, Linda?

I would love you to be on an investor call.

Yes we have a £4bn business but we let the Goofy German guy make all the decisions.

Hello, Hello you still there.

[Ghost Town]

 the Goofy German guy

Stay classy, Al!

[Dave McCoy]

Wait, so the other day Klopp said he's not too loyal and he's going to be here long term so if players need to change so be it. Yet now his embargoed press conference is everybody gets an extension? He mentioned Milner as well. What is going on here?

[Lone Star Red]

I love Bobby as much as the next guy and he’s a legend in my eyes, but we cannot be extending his contract.

[Ghost Town]

Wait, so the other day Klopp said he's not too loyal and he's going to be here long term so if players need to change so be it. Yet now his embargoed press conference is everybody gets an extension? He mentioned Milner as well. What is going on here?

Yep, he definitley said everybody gets an extension. Everybody. Sadly, I suspect, even you 

[Ghost Town]

But we probably are, so....

So many heads falling off because Kloppo just won't listen to Rawk. Damn him!

[Lone Star Red]

But we probably are, so....

So many heads falling off because Kloppo just won't listen to Rawk. Damn him!

*shrugs*

No head falling off here. Just don’t think it’s wise to be extending another aging player in the squad, as that policy has exacerbated many of the problems we’ve seen this season.

I’m just a guy on the internet though, expressing his opinion.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

So you don't think that they are the ones that sign off on multi-million pound deals 4pool ?

You have to be joking.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Wait, so the other day Klopp said he's not too loyal and he's going to be here long term so if players need to change so be it. Yet now his embargoed press conference is everybody gets an extension? He mentioned Milner as well. What is going on here?

You're chatting rubbish again.Out of all the older generation he's one that you most definitely do keep around.

If you cannot see the obvious reasons for that then there's no hope for you.

But we all know that when it comes to FSG,all the rest is secondary.

[Passmaster Molby]

Wait, so the other day Klopp said he's not too loyal and he's going to be here long term so if players need to change so be it. Yet now his embargoed press conference is everybody gets an extension? He mentioned Milner as well. What is going on here?

He’s clearly deciding to give those players he wants to stay an extension to their contract.

No mention of Keita and Ox though, so not everyone is getting an extension.

[deano2727]

Honestly don't see a major issue with extending his contract on reasonable terms.

He is happy to be here as a bit-part player. He isn't past it yet.

[arabliverpool90]

We have Nunez, Gakpo, Jota all that can play centrally. We have to move on sadly, we need to clear out our wages bill especially if the FSG are staying and not selling in the summer.

[deano2727]

We have Nunez, Gakpo, Jota all that can play centrally. We have to move on sadly, we need to clear out our wages bill especially if the FSG are staying and not selling in the summer.

When fit. Our injury record of late has been terrible. If he wanted to leave for more minutes, I'd wish him well. If he wants to stay and be a squad player, I'd gladly have him in the squad.

[DelTrotter]

When fit. Our injury record of late has been terrible. If he wanted to leave for more minutes, I'd wish him well. If he wants to stay and be a squad player, I'd gladly have him in the squad.

He's part of that terrible injury record though which makes renewing all the more daft. Then of course if the injuries did continue next season and we wanted to sign someone we get told "ah we can't coz we've got Bobby etc"

Still, for all the talk there's no contract signed yet. Feels a bit Wijnaldum like so far.

[Samio]

When is he actually back?

[4pool]

So you don't think that they are the ones that sign off on multi-million pound deals 4pool ?

You have to be joking.

So, you and AL think John Henry's name is on the contract(s)? 

Besides that, Al said it's on FSG if they allow Bobby a new contract. Which implies FSG, John Henry, is playing Championship Manager. He's the one calling the shots on who we resign, who we sell, and who we buy. Has very little to what Jurgen wants. What Jurgen sees as best for the team. It's all about FSG pulling the strings.

Which imho, is so far from reality.

I'm sure it was Henry pushing for Gakpo. I mean John is so clued up now and spends his days analyzing every player going.

The simple answer is, has been, and always pointed out is FSG agree a budget for Jurgen to spend. Then they step back and let Jurgen get on with it. If Jurgen wants Bobby, then the club will try to make it happen. It's not if FSG wants Bobby.

[LiamG]

I can’t believe there are actually some fans that are against giving our league joint top scorer a new one year deal

[markmywords]

Can't believe their are fans wanting to reduce funds for transfer spending for future windows by extending terms for an injury prone footballer whose best season was in 17/18. Bobby gives the impression of not only  being only injury prone but also a slow healer.  Having injury prone players in reserve is a false economy as keita has shown


bobby is a legend, out of the all the players in the squad he has been Mr Liverpool , but renewing at this stage  would be the sort of rampant sentimentality which has cost us dearly, we have 5 big money forwards clearly ahead of him in the peaking order, bobby isn't even a versatile squad player like milner, gomez.

  It seems the fanbase  and the management share the same reckless sentimentality that has hurt us, the last 3 yrs have shown anyone paying attention that we can't and haven't been able to afford having well over a dozen highly paid players (150k p/w approx) on the books AND be able to sign sufficent highly rated young players around them, so you have to chose and we are slavishly, consistently making the wrong choice.

The only way renewing almost makes sense, is if we plan on selling 1 of salah/jota or diaz to raise funds and/or to use gakpo mainly in midfield, both seem unlikely.  We have been great at acquiring players, not so good at letting players go, in our financial situation you need to be great at both

[DelTrotter]

Can't believe their are fans wanting to reduce funds for transfer spending for future windows by extending terms for an injury prone footballer whose best season was in 17/18. Bobby gives the impression of not only  being only injury prone but also a slow healer.  Having injury prone players in reserve is a false economy as keita has shown


bobby is a legend, out of the all the players in the squad he has been Mr Liverpool , but renewing at this stage  would be the sort of rampant sentimentality which has cost us dearly, we have 5 big money forwards clearly ahead of him in the peaking order, bobby isn't even a versatile squad player like milner, gomez.

  It seems the fanbase  and the management share the same reckless sentimentality that has hurt us, the last 3 yrs have shown anyone paying attention that we can't and haven't been able to afford having well over a dozen highly paid players (150k p/w approx) on the books AND be able to sign sufficent highly rated young players around them, so you have to chose and we are slavishly, consistently making the wrong choice.

The only way renewing almost makes sense, is if we plan on selling 1 of salah/jota or diaz to raise funds and/or to use gakpo mainly in midfield, both seem unlikely.  We have been great at acquiring players, not so good at letting players go, in our financial situation you need to be great at both

Yep. I think it would be a dreadful decision even if in isolation you could make a case for it. Legend, goals this season etc etc. Though some of the reasons are laughable like "he sets the standard in training" and "experience" this team needs less experience not more!!  Keep seeing people suggest he'd stay on a pittance too which seems highly unlikely to me. An extension might not be many years but he'd defo still want paying and rightly so from his and his agents point of view. So that'd be 5, 6 or 7m per year on a player past his best or about to be and often not available when needed anyway and those wages then can't go on someone else.

No CL next season probably means wages for incomings will be extremely tight as well even with the departures of Ox, Naby etc. We are meant to be an insane pressing, non stop energy side yet seemingly want to extend every player as they get old, it's weird and unfortunately we are seeing the impact of that now.

[4pool]

I doubt the club, or Jurgen, are worried about getting new players in because Bobby may be paid the same or a tad more. And if they are, then we're in dire financial shape. Something tells me with FSG in charge, we're not in dire financial shape.

[LiamG]

Can't believe their are fans wanting to reduce funds for transfer spending for future windows by extending terms for an injury prone footballer whose best season was in 17/18. Bobby gives the impression of not only  being only injury prone but also a slow healer.  Having injury prone players in reserve is a false economy as keita has shown


bobby is a legend, out of the all the players in the squad he has been Mr Liverpool , but renewing at this stage  would be the sort of rampant sentimentality which has cost us dearly, we have 5 big money forwards clearly ahead of him in the peaking order, bobby isn't even a versatile squad player like milner, gomez.

  It seems the fanbase  and the management share the same reckless sentimentality that has hurt us, the last 3 yrs have shown anyone paying attention that we can't and haven't been able to afford having well over a dozen highly paid players (150k p/w approx) on the books AND be able to sign sufficent highly rated young players around them, so you have to chose and we are slavishly, consistently making the wrong choice.

The only way renewing almost makes sense, is if we plan on selling 1 of salah/jota or diaz to raise funds and/or to use gakpo mainly in midfield, both seem unlikely.  We have been great at acquiring players, not so good at letting players go, in our financial situation you need to be great at both

Whats wrong with offering him a one year extension? He can still be a massively important squad player for us, and as i said, he's our joint top scorer in the league this season, surely thats something?

Diaz, Nunez , Salah

Jota, Firmino, Gakpo

Strength in depth, but also means Klopp can switch it 4231 sometimes

[Knight]

I doubt the club, or Jurgen, are worried about getting new players in because Bobby may be paid the same or a tad more. And if they are, then we're in dire financial shape. Something tells me with FSG in charge, we're not in dire financial shape.

This probably doesn't apply to you personally 4pool, I've got not idea about your opinions on this but more generally people can't have it both ways. When posters ask for more money to be spent on transfers the retort for years has been, 'we're spending lots of money, it's going on wages, just looking at net spend is totally the wrong way to understand how much investment is going into the playing squad'. True and fair enough. In response to that plenty of the same posters wanting more investment in the playing squad in terms of transfers are responding negatively to contracts like this. And that seems entirely reasonable given the narrative over the past few years about the tradeoff between wages and transfers. Obviously one new contract of a 30+ player isn't make or break for new signings but it's the pattern which is concerning. Any single contract can be explained or argued for in isolation but the complaints are about the wider strategy. We can now say that we desperately needed to spend more on new players but apparently we spent money on wages and contracts instead. That cannot keep happening.

[RyanBabel19]

Would there be some sort of middle ground where only one player is extended this summer but numerous others leave?

If Bobby extends but Milner, Ox AND Keita all go, surely you have the best of both worlds, money is freed up from departures (especially when you consider the likes of Adrian and Philips are also likely to go) and we retain a player who contributes well and understands our system. Its unlikely Bobby is going to be on monumentous wages to be honest , I think we can afford a short extension in isolation when all factors are considered

[Clint Eastwood]

Do we have a timeline on his return or are we still in the dark? I think he'd be a help right now.

[Knight]

Would there be some sort of middle ground where only one player is extended this summer but numerous others leave?

If Bobby extends but Milner, Ox AND Keita all go, surely you have the best of both worlds, money is freed up from departures (especially when you consider the likes of Adrian and Philips are also likely to go) and we retain a player who contributes well and understands our system. Its unlikely Bobby is going to be on monumentous wages to be honest , I think we can afford a short extension in isolation when all factors are considered

My concern is we're going to be carrying plenty in their 30s next season and so we've already reached a limit of extensions and Firmino is too many. All this is difficult when you don't know the number but if Bobby stays on what he's currently on then we're going to have a situation where our 2nd highest paid forward is our 6th choice forward. That feels off to me.

[RyanBabel19]

My concern is we're going to be carrying plenty in their 30s next season and so we've already reached a limit of extensions and Firmino is too many. All this is difficult when you don't know the number but if Bobby stays on what he's currently on then we're going to have a situation where our 2nd highest paid forward is our 6th choice forward. That feels off to me.

I hear that, but then what do you class as the limit? What number do other big sides tend to have and is it not offset by the makeup of the rest of your squad.

Alisson 30 but he’s a keeper so hardly matters
Adrian 36 deal expires in summer
Virgil 31
Matip 31 enters last year of his deal in summer
Thiago 31
Henderson 32
Milner 37 but looks like he could go in summer
Salah 30
Firmino 31

Looks like too much currently but you take out Alisson, Adrian and potentially Milner and you have 6 players 30 or over with 2 of them out of contract next summer should Bobby only sign a 1 year deal which then takes it down to 4, Virgil, Henderson, Thiago and Salah, not insane to think Henderson could depart following that.

[El Lobo]

My concern is we're going to be carrying plenty in their 30s next season and so we've already reached a limit of extensions and Firmino is too many. All this is difficult when you don't know the number but if Bobby stays on what he's currently on then we're going to have a situation where our 2nd highest paid forward is our 6th choice forward. That feels off to me.

All depends what we actually plan to do in the summer.

Alisson at 30 isn't a problem. VVD at 31 isn't a problem alongside Konate. Matip at 31 as 4th choice CB isn't a problem as long as the plan is to bring in another over the next 18 months. Hendo and Thiago at 32/31 aren't a problem.... as long as we're losing Millie and Hendo is taking that role, and we're bringing in 2/3 younger CMs. And Bobby (31) and Mo (30) aren't a problem in an attack with Nunez (23), Gakpo (23), Jota (26) and Diaz (26). But as ever....its all reliant on us doing the right thing in the transfer market, which quite clearly isn't a given right now.

[RyanBabel19]

All depends what we actually plan to do in the summer.

Alisson at 30 isn't a problem. VVD at 31 isn't a problem alongside Konate. Matip at 31 as 4th choice CB isn't a problem as long as the plan is to bring in another over the next 18 months. Hendo and Thiago at 32/31 aren't a problem.... as long as we're losing Millie and Hendo is taking that role, and we're bringing in 2/3 younger CMs. And Bobby (31) and Mo (30) aren't a problem in an attack with Nunez (23), Gakpo (23), Jota (26) and Diaz (26). But as ever....its all reliant on us doing the right thing in the transfer market, which quite clearly isn't a given right now.

Pretty much mate, it’s he plan and the makeup of the squad that determines how things look to be honest. If you go simply on number of over 30s it looks very lopsided but when you look deeper at the actual structure of the squad you get a clearer picture of things. I think the past window has made people think extending is a bad thing without looking into the potential plan moving forward and considering who may move on

[jepovic]

This probably doesn't apply to you personally 4pool, I've got not idea about your opinions on this but more generally people can't have it both ways. When posters ask for more money to be spent on transfers the retort for years has been, 'we're spending lots of money, it's going on wages, just looking at net spend is totally the wrong way to understand how much investment is going into the playing squad'. True and fair enough. In response to that plenty of the same posters wanting more investment in the playing squad in terms of transfers are responding negatively to contracts like this. And that seems entirely reasonable given the narrative over the past few years about the tradeoff between wages and transfers. Obviously one new contract of a 30+ player isn't make or break for new signings but it's the pattern which is concerning. Any single contract can be explained or argued for in isolation but the complaints are about the wider strategy. We can now say that we desperately needed to spend more on new players but apparently we spent money on wages and contracts instead. That cannot keep happening.

A new contract for Bobby at say 150 k/week for 2 years would be 15 M in total. It's pretty marginal compared with transfer fees.
A new player at a similar level would cost like Gakpo, say 40M, and still demand a similar salary.

The age balance in the attack is fine, IMO.
The midfield is quite different, with Thiago, Henderson, Milner and Fabinho all beyond their peaks - complemented by teenagers that are too far away from their peaks.

[markmywords]

During the last 6 yrs or so in the CL we have had 3, 4 at the most 5 big wage, big name forwards in the squad, going into the season.  Kinda strange that next yr likely with no CL funds or  CL games people are suggesting we need 6 big wage, starter quality forwards in the squad(plus the likes of elliot, fabio, Boak).  With likely no CL funds, we will need to tighten our belts,  the easiest place to start with that is not renewing certain stalwarts.  Especially considering jurgen talks alot about rhythm and doesn't like to rotate that much.

[DelTrotter]

A new contract for Bobby at say 150 k/week for 2 years would be 15 M in total. It's pretty marginal compared with transfer fees.
A new player at a similar level would cost like Gakpo, say 40M, and still demand a similar salary.

The age balance in the attack is fine, IMO.
The midfield is quite different, with Thiago, Henderson, Milner and Fabinho all beyond their peaks - complemented by teenagers that are too far away from their peaks.

That's a massive wage for what's likely to be a 3rd or 4th choice striker when we only play with 1. Not to mention the increasingly dodgy injury record, we can keep him around for depth but when he's needed like right now he's not even available anyway.

It's fine if Bobby and Mo don't play together but given Mo is always on the pitch any CL or league minutes Bobby is likely to get will be with Mo in which case it's not fine.

[decosabute]

A new contract for Bobby at say 150 k/week for 2 years would be 15 M in total. It's pretty marginal compared with transfer fees.
A new player at a similar level would cost like Gakpo, say 40M, and still demand a similar salary.

The age balance in the attack is fine, IMO.
The midfield is quite different, with Thiago, Henderson, Milner and Fabinho all beyond their peaks - complemented by teenagers that are too far away from their peaks.

Absolutely no chance he gets anything like that wage. If he does get a deal, it'll probably be a pretty low basic wage with good incentives for goals/assists. Given his age and downturn in performance, there won't be big clubs queuing up to offer him a bumper deal. The club have all the power here and he wants to stay.

[4pool]

This probably doesn't apply to you personally 4pool, I've got not idea about your opinions on this but more generally people can't have it both ways. When posters ask for more money to be spent on transfers the retort for years has been, 'we're spending lots of money, it's going on wages, just looking at net spend is totally the wrong way to understand how much investment is going into the playing squad'. True and fair enough. In response to that plenty of the same posters wanting more investment in the playing squad in terms of transfers are responding negatively to contracts like this. And that seems entirely reasonable given the narrative over the past few years about the tradeoff between wages and transfers. Obviously one new contract of a 30+ player isn't make or break for new signings but it's the pattern which is concerning. Any single contract can be explained or argued for in isolation but the complaints are about the wider strategy. We can now say that we desperately needed to spend more on new players but apparently we spent money on wages and contracts instead. That cannot keep happening.

Spending money on wages...



Swiss Ramble
@SwissRamble
·
Mar 3, 2022
#LFC wages to turnover ratio slightly improved from 66% to 65%, which is not too bad, given the estimated net £52m COVID revenue impact. Also one of the better results in the Premier League, sandwiched between #MCFC 62% and #MUFC 65%, though much better than #CFC 77%.


We have to wait until about march to see the accounts from 21/22.

However, the handwringing over the wage bill is a bit much to me. The club will always keep an eye on the amount of wages relative to revenues. Jurgen will be part of that decision making as well.

While we may be spending more and more on wages, we are also increasing revenues as well. So, more revenue equals more money in the pot for wages AND transfers.


For me, at the end of the day, Jurgen is part of the decision making process for what staff and players he wants. He has all the data. He has all the accounting info. He balances what he wants, what he needs, how he seems the team improving, what the future holds, and everything is fluid at all times. So far Jurgen has got most things right. If he wants Bobby to stay and sees Bobbys role in the team, then i'm prepared to back our manager.  Besides, Bobby is Boss. 

[Knight]

I mean that’s fine but it does rather call into question the whole narrative about ‘bills to pay’ and ‘investing in wages not transfers’. That has been a continual thing for years to explain the lack of spending on transfers.

[LiamG]

During the last 6 yrs or so in the CL we have had 3, 4 at the most 5 big wage, big name forwards in the squad, going into the season.  Kinda strange that next yr likely with no CL funds or  CL games people are suggesting we need 6 big wage, starter quality forwards in the squad(plus the likes of elliot, fabio, Boak).  With likely no CL funds, we will need to tighten our belts,  the easiest place to start with that is not renewing certain stalwarts.  Especially considering jurgen talks alot about rhythm and doesn't like to rotate that much.

I mean even Klopp himself said we need two teams on the same level

[markmywords]

I mean even Klopp himself said we need two teams on the same level

With our finances and no possibly no CL football next yr, 2 teams of the same level will mean 2 average to good teams, at best. We can't spread our small money that thin. and we can't go into nxt yr, paying much more on forwards players in wages than we ever have, with less money incoming than we have had under klopp and  fewer fixtures to play those players in.

[GreatEx]

LOL @ Man City's wage to turnover ratio. More revenue than Liverpool and lower wages. Of course! Their manager must be way better than ours.

[spider-neil]

LOL @ Man City's wage to turnover ratio. More revenue than Liverpool and lower wages. Of course! Their manager must be way better than ours.

There is so much cooking of City’s books the books most be brown crispy and well done by now.