Author Topic: NBA Discussion  (Read 603783 times)

Offline PeterTheRed ...

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Re: NBA Season 2016-17 Discussion
« Reply #3200 on: June 23, 2017, 11:18:41 am »
Absolute steal by Minnesota. Earlier this year Bulls were chasing multiple Brooklyn picks from the Celts for him. Dunn could still be quite good, he's got great physical talents. But it's all just not enough.

Looks like a poor deal for the Bulls, but they were very high on Kris Dunn before last year's draft, so they probably have a plan with him. Zach LaVine was putting up some great numbers before his ACL injury, and it remains to be seen how strong he will come back. As for Markkanen, he could be the steal of the draft. A 7-footer with good mobility who can shoot 3's at a high percentage is a hot commodity in the modern day NBA. In any case, the Bulls are in a full tank mode now, and that is what many of their fans wanted. With a pretty strong draft class coming up next summer, and with tons of cap space, they will have the chance to do something.

Offline LFC_1981

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Re: NBA Season 2016-17 Discussion
« Reply #3201 on: June 23, 2017, 11:52:53 am »
Nah don't know about many fans wanting to tank. Couple of weeks leading up to and now draft has been I'd say its half and half.

I'm gutted they traded Jimmy and in my opinion I would've still built a team around him but I know how American sports works and I know all this has to happen. In a couple of weeks I'll probably like the idea of a rebuild. I just don't trust this front office to do it. Not one damn bit. They made this mess.

June 22nd, 2016: Bulls trade Derrick Rose to the New York Knicks.

June 22nd, 2017: Bulls trade Jimmy Butler to the Minnesota Timberwolves.

With that the roster during the Tom Thibodeau era is officially over. I'm gonna miss that squad though. Gonna miss how hard those guys worked under Thibs. Gonna miss feeling like Bulls always had a chance.

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Re: NBA Season 2016-17 Discussion
« Reply #3202 on: June 23, 2017, 01:24:13 pm »
Lakers might just start to turn the corner after years of mis-management and horrible Kupchak deals. Guy was a clown once West left.

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Re: NBA Season 2016-17 Discussion
« Reply #3203 on: June 23, 2017, 04:44:49 pm »
The Bulls just became so much worse to watch. Good luck to Jimmy, he deserves a lot better than the dumpster fire of the last two years.

I'm still not convinced that Boston wouldn't have offered a better deal. Bulls' front office sucks and they're never getting fired

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Re: NBA Season 2016-17 Discussion
« Reply #3204 on: June 23, 2017, 06:33:41 pm »
Kings had a good draft, they have the makings of a young exciting team for the future now

Offline LFC_1981

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Re: NBA Season 2016-17 Discussion
« Reply #3205 on: June 23, 2017, 06:56:55 pm »
Knicks and Bulls seeing who can destroy their franchise first.

Offline PeterTheRed ...

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Re: NBA Season 2016-17 Discussion
« Reply #3206 on: June 23, 2017, 10:43:11 pm »
Nah don't know about many fans wanting to tank. Couple of weeks leading up to and now draft has been I'd say its half and half.

I'm gutted they traded Jimmy and in my opinion I would've still built a team around him but I know how American sports works and I know all this has to happen. In a couple of weeks I'll probably like the idea of a rebuild. I just don't trust this front office to do it. Not one damn bit. They made this mess.

June 22nd, 2016: Bulls trade Derrick Rose to the New York Knicks.

June 22nd, 2017: Bulls trade Jimmy Butler to the Minnesota Timberwolves.

With that the roster during the Tom Thibodeau era is officially over. I'm gonna miss that squad though. Gonna miss how hard those guys worked under Thibs. Gonna miss feeling like Bulls always had a chance.

That Bulls team was finished the moment Rose blew up his knee. Personally, I think that they are 12 months late with the rebuilding. There was absolutely no need for the Rondo/Wade experiment. Had they traded Butler to Boston last June and tanked, they would have had a couple of top 5 picks this June.

Still, they have some nice pieces to start the rebuilding. They obviously like Dunn a lot, and he could still become a good starting level PG. Grant and Payne will also have their chance to impress for the backup PG role. It will be interesting to see how strong LaVine will come back from his injury, but he was putting up some great numbers before the injury, and he is definitely a starting level SG talent. Valentine will also get more minutes, especially until LaVine is back, so the Bulls might end up with a pretty good SG combo. Canaan will also get some decent playing time until LaVine is back, but I don't see him being there in the long term. I don't know what is their plan for the SF spot, but Zipser has already shown that he can be a competent backup for the position. As for the PF position, Bulls FO have already confirmed that they will be bringing Mirotic back, so they won't be throwing Markkanen into the deep from the start. I like Markkanen a lot, and I think that he has a genuine All Star potential. Maybe not at Dirk's level, but definitely a talent who could become one of the top big man shooters in the league for years to come. Portis will also get more minutes, maybe even some of them at the C position. Also, they will probably bring Felicio back on a decent contract, since he is still relatively young.

The obvious odd men out are the veterans and highest earners Wade, Rondo and Lopez. I expect that the Bulls will try to buy out Wade, so they can save some money, and give the player a chance to finish his career playing for a contender. Since only $3 million of Rondo's last year is guaranteed, that is probably where the money from the sale of the 38th pick will go. As for Lopez, I am not sure what they will do with him, but considering that he is still productive and that his contract is not awful, they might try to trade him to a contender for some young assets in return.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2017, 10:52:22 pm by PeterTheRed »

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Re: NBA Season 2016-17 Discussion
« Reply #3207 on: June 23, 2017, 11:07:22 pm »
They obviously like Dunn a lot, and he could still become a good starting level PG.

like fuck

Offline PeterTheRed ...

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Re: NBA Season 2016-17 Discussion
« Reply #3208 on: June 23, 2017, 11:13:38 pm »
like fuck

Well, I never rate rookies after their first season under Thibs.

Butler averaged 2.6 ppg/1.3 rpg/0.3 apg in his rookie season under Thibs.

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Re: NBA Season 2016-17 Discussion
« Reply #3209 on: June 23, 2017, 11:59:29 pm »
Not too sold on Markkanen.
I see him as a taller, less athletic version of Frye.
Will make a decent career, but highly doubt he'll ever make an All-Star team during his career.
Not sure he has the mental toughness to survive the NBA.
I'm predicting he'll be the biggest flop of the top 10 picks this season (5 years down the line).
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Offline PeterTheRed ...

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Re: NBA Season 2016-17 Discussion
« Reply #3210 on: June 24, 2017, 12:37:32 am »
Not too sold on Markkanen.
I see him as a taller, less athletic version of Frye.
Will make a decent career, but highly doubt he'll ever make an All-Star team during his career.
Not sure he has the mental toughness to survive the NBA.
I'm predicting he'll be the biggest flop of the top 10 picks this season (5 years down the line).

At this point, it is probably impossible to tell. One thing is certain, the Bulls will be playing it safe with Markkanen, by keeping Mirotic around for a year or two. A lot of things will also depend on what player they will get in next years draft. I haven't seen all the prospects, but from what I have seen from the likes of Ayton, Porter, Doncic and Bamba, it could be one of the strongest drafts in recent years. Even if Markkanen becomes only a good NBA starter and not an All Star, he still won't be a flop as a No.7 pick.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2017, 12:44:42 am by PeterTheRed »

Offline Romeo Sensini

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Re: NBA Season 2016-17 Discussion
« Reply #3211 on: June 24, 2017, 01:18:39 am »
Not too sold on Markkanen.
I see him as a taller, less athletic version of Frye.
Will make a decent career, but highly doubt he'll ever make an All-Star team during his career.
Not sure he has the mental toughness to survive the NBA.
I'm predicting he'll be the biggest flop of the top 10 picks this season (5 years down the line).
Ryan Anderson has similar stats and almost identical shooting numbers from a PAC-10/12 school. Decent player, but also the kind of player teams get stuck overpaying. Feel like that might be his ceiling.

De'Aaron Fox is the one I am questioning the most. Sketchy shooter. A lot of folks are making Wall comparisons because of his speed. That said, Ish Smith is/was fast and can't shoot.

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Re: NBA Season 2016-17 Discussion
« Reply #3212 on: June 24, 2017, 02:59:01 am »
Well, I never rate rookies after their first season under Thibs.

Butler averaged 2.6 ppg/1.3 rpg/0.3 apg in his rookie season under Thibs.

Butler played 8.5 minutes a game in a lockout shortened season; he went as the 30th pick and was treated as such. Not the 5th pick playing 17 minutes a game.

Kris Dunn is already a starting level PG on defense. On offense he's nowhere near and has looked at his best (which is still exceedingly mediocre) when somebody else has been running the point for him, Tyus Jones or Ricky Rubio. His problem is that he's undersized as an SG and that he can't shoot for shit. It's a very bad sign for a guy that is 4.5 years younger than Frank Ntilikina, who Chicago could have got at 7.

Also you're very keen to stress that 'Chicago will have a plan for him' or words to that effect. I can assure you that if GarPax or Hoiberg have any plans, they're not likely to have been formulated with any kind of sense.

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Re: NBA Season 2016-17 Discussion
« Reply #3213 on: June 24, 2017, 03:04:27 am »
De'Aaron Fox is the one I am questioning the most. Sketchy shooter. A lot of folks are making Wall comparisons because of his speed. That said, Ish Smith is/was fast and can't shoot.

I think Fox has a decent floor though, just because he's a great defender with his size, energy and determination. He's shown he can run a PnR well too.

Offline PeterTheRed ...

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Re: NBA Season 2016-17 Discussion
« Reply #3214 on: June 24, 2017, 10:20:49 am »
Butler played 8.5 minutes a game in a lockout shortened season; he went as the 30th pick and was treated as such. Not the 5th pick playing 17 minutes a game.

Kris Dunn is already a starting level PG on defense. On offense he's nowhere near and has looked at his best (which is still exceedingly mediocre) when somebody else has been running the point for him, Tyus Jones or Ricky Rubio. His problem is that he's undersized as an SG and that he can't shoot for shit. It's a very bad sign for a guy that is 4.5 years younger than Frank Ntilikina, who Chicago could have got at 7.

Also you're very keen to stress that 'Chicago will have a plan for him' or words to that effect. I can assure you that if GarPax or Hoiberg have any plans, they're not likely to have been formulated with any kind of sense.

I am willing to wait and see how Kris Dunn will be used in Hoiberg's system. I also don't have a particularly high opinion on GarPax, but they were very clear yesterday saying that they are going with developing the young players in Hoiberg's system next season. We know that this season the Bulls had a hybrid system due to the presence of Butler and Wade, and it wasn't really working all the time.

Offline b_joseph

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Re: NBA Season 2016-17 Discussion
« Reply #3215 on: June 24, 2017, 10:24:38 am »
Lakers might just start to turn the corner after years of mis-management and horrible Kupchak deals. Guy was a clown once West left.
except for the 2 titles in 09 and 10 ofcourse. The new regime hasn't done anything yet...it will take 12 months before the Russell deal makes sense.

Dunn is the folly of the draft in one. Last year so many were high on him and now you can't find too many of those people...probably an oxymoron but it's like educated roulette.
Wiggins getting to learn from Butler for a few years, is gold.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2017, 10:29:16 am by b_joseph »

Offline LFC_1981

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Re: NBA Season 2016-17 Discussion
« Reply #3216 on: June 24, 2017, 03:22:43 pm »
That Bulls team was finished the moment Rose blew up his knee. Personally, I think that they are 12 months late with the rebuilding. There was absolutely no need for the Rondo/Wade experiment. Had they traded Butler to Boston last June and tanked, they would have had a couple of top 5 picks this June.

Still, they have some nice pieces to start the rebuilding. They obviously like Dunn a lot, and he could still become a good starting level PG. Grant and Payne will also have their chance to impress for the backup PG role. It will be interesting to see how strong LaVine will come back from his injury, but he was putting up some great numbers before the injury, and he is definitely a starting level SG talent. Valentine will also get more minutes, especially until LaVine is back, so the Bulls might end up with a pretty good SG combo. Canaan will also get some decent playing time until LaVine is back, but I don't see him being there in the long term. I don't know what is their plan for the SF spot, but Zipser has already shown that he can be a competent backup for the position. As for the PF position, Bulls FO have already confirmed that they will be bringing Mirotic back, so they won't be throwing Markkanen into the deep from the start. I like Markkanen a lot, and I think that he has a genuine All Star potential. Maybe not at Dirk's level, but definitely a talent who could become one of the top big man shooters in the league for years to come. Portis will also get more minutes, maybe even some of them at the C position. Also, they will probably bring Felicio back on a decent contract, since he is still relatively young.

The obvious odd men out are the veterans and highest earners Wade, Rondo and Lopez. I expect that the Bulls will try to buy out Wade, so they can save some money, and give the player a chance to finish his career playing for a contender. Since only $3 million of Rondo's last year is guaranteed, that is probably where the money from the sale of the 38th pick will go. As for Lopez, I am not sure what they will do with him, but considering that he is still productive and that his contract is not awful, they might try to trade him to a contender for some young assets in return.


Some good points mate. Yeah defo right about the team finished when Rose knee blew, such a shame.

Offline TipTopKop

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Re: NBA Season 2016-17 Discussion
« Reply #3217 on: June 24, 2017, 09:34:42 pm »
except for the 2 titles in 09 and 10 ofcourse. The new regime hasn't done anything yet...it will take 12 months before the Russell deal makes sense.
West built the dynasty that got those rings. When Kupchak took the reigns, well....

Not sure how the new front office will do, but I sure don't miss the Kupchak or Buss Jr, whiffing on one top draft pick after another year after year with nothing to show for, not to mention disastrous contracts like Nash, Deng, and Mozgov who somehow the new staff managed to trick the Nets into accepting.

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Re: NBA Season 2016-17 Discussion
« Reply #3218 on: June 25, 2017, 06:48:20 pm »
West built the dynasty that got those rings. When Kupchak took the reigns, well....

Not sure how the new front office will do, but I sure don't miss the Kupchak or Buss Jr, whiffing on one top draft pick after another year after year with nothing to show for, not to mention disastrous contracts like Nash, Deng, and Mozgov who somehow the new staff managed to trick the Nets into accepting.
Ariza , Bynum, Metta, Gasol...Odom. All Mitch and Jimmy. They get credit for that.

After the Nash and Howard season, it went to shit and maybe it was their time to go. But let's not act like they did nothing.

Offline LFC_1981

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Re: NBA Season 2016-17 Discussion
« Reply #3219 on: June 25, 2017, 07:42:07 pm »
Just binge watched Lakers/Celtics: Best of enemies, wow an amazing rivalry, players & two teams. What an era during the 80's would've of loved to been a fan back then.

Larry Bird & Magic Johnson though enough said.

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Re: NBA Season 2016-17 Discussion
« Reply #3220 on: June 26, 2017, 06:54:02 pm »
Just binge watched Lakers/Celtics: Best of enemies, wow an amazing rivalry, players & two teams. What an era during the 80's would've of loved to been a fan back then.

Larry Bird & Magic Johnson though enough said.

Don't forget Zeke. The best little man in NBA history.
The Pistons were responsible for ending the Lakers+Celtics era as well as being the obstacles that stopped Jordan and the Bulls from reaching the NBA Finals in the late 80s.
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Offline LFC_1981

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Re: NBA Season 2016-17 Discussion
« Reply #3221 on: June 26, 2017, 08:30:39 pm »
Yeah good point, I read up on the history of the Pistons and how they ended the Lakers/Celtics  dominance in the 80's.

Offline Lone Star Red

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Re: NBA Season 2016-17 Discussion
« Reply #3222 on: June 27, 2017, 01:36:10 pm »
You cannot call overseas Liverpool supporters glory hunters. We’ve won one trophy this decade. If they’re glory hunters, they’re really bad ones. They’re actually journey hunters. It’s the journey and the story. Something about Liverpool has grabbed them." - Neil Atkinson (May, 2019)

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Offline TipTopKop

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Re: NBA Season 2016-17 Discussion
« Reply #3223 on: June 27, 2017, 11:09:03 pm »
Ariza , Bynum, Metta, Gasol...Odom. All Mitch and Jimmy. They get credit for that.

After the Nash and Howard season, it went to shit and maybe it was their time to go. But let's not act like they did nothing.
They did do something for sure. Just not anything outstanding in my opinion as they had the core in place (remember Bynum with his injuries, Ariza went to Houston, but sure Gasol, Metta, and Odom were great acquisitions), and they certainly hadn't done much for a long time.

I'm no fan of Jeannie either, giving Kobe that massive 'loyalty' contract at the end made no sense whatsoever and burdened the team with so little cap space for years.

Willing to give Magic and Pelinka a chance though; it simply can't worse than it's been the past 3 or 4 years, it seemed no-one was at the wheel and change was long overdue.

Offline LFC_1981

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Re: NBA Season 2016-17 Discussion
« Reply #3224 on: June 28, 2017, 12:30:24 am »
Agreed I think it'll be fine with Magic and Pelinka. Watching Magic in the Lakers/Celtics: Best of Eniemies reminded of how much I love Magic.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2017, 12:37:40 am by LFC_1981 »

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Re: NBA Season 2016-17 Discussion
« Reply #3225 on: June 28, 2017, 05:16:05 am »
What's that "Brodie" poster in the Westbrook cartoon supposed to represent. I always though Westbrook looked a lot like Boadie Broadus from The Wire, is that it?

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Re: NBA Season 2016-17 Discussion
« Reply #3226 on: June 28, 2017, 10:20:26 am »
Ramona Shelburne reporting that the Knicks are firing Phil Jackson. Basically Dolan had to choose between Carmelo and Jackson and picked Melo.
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Re: NBA Season 2016-17 Discussion
« Reply #3227 on: June 28, 2017, 10:54:21 am »
Phil Jackson out of NY? Wow

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Re: NBA Season 2016-17 Discussion
« Reply #3228 on: June 29, 2017, 10:31:33 am »
Soooo Chris Paul to the Rockets hey!

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Re: NBA Season 2016-17 Discussion
« Reply #3229 on: June 29, 2017, 10:36:55 am »
Have no idea how that's going to work, both are ball dominant, they've traded Beverly,Williams and Dekker. They appear to be after PG13 now as  well.


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Re: NBA Season 2016-17 Discussion
« Reply #3230 on: June 29, 2017, 12:48:56 pm »
Apparently Doc Rivers turned down Knicks offer of Melo and Sasha Vujacic for Austin Rivers, Jamal Crawford and Paul Pierce because he didn't want to trade his son.

If this true I can't blame Paul for leaving.

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Re: NBA Season 2016-17 Discussion
« Reply #3231 on: June 29, 2017, 03:12:45 pm »
Have no idea how that's going to work, both are ball dominant, they've traded Beverly,Williams and Dekker. They appear to be after PG13 now as  well.

Honestly, I think it will be phenomenal.

Paul is one of the best catch and shoot players in the NBA. Harden played off ball for a lot of his career and was a much better defender when he wasn't the sole offensive option; he's really willing for CP3 to come so obviously there's an understanding between the two. There's definitely going to be some diminishing returns but maybe that gets negated by the ball movement and better defending from Harden. As for the players they've lost, CP3 is better than Beverley (who I rate as one of the best contracts in the NBA) and Lou put together. Dekker wasn't in the playoff rotation anyway. 

A roster with CP3, Harden, Trev, Capela is almost definitely going to be a top 3 seed imo, especially if they get Nene back and he can keep his standards up. Which means their season is just based around round 2 vs San Antonio and then the conf finals vs the Warriors, if they get there. d'Antoni tends to play a 7/8 man rotation in the playoffs so they only need 3 more quality performers.

They have two right now in EG and Ryno; it's about finding the best possible combination of those two, PG, Melo, Blake. Morey just engineered a trade for one of the best point guards ever, I'm sure he can build on this.

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Re: NBA Season 2016-17 Discussion
« Reply #3232 on: June 29, 2017, 03:58:53 pm »
They were going to be a top 3 seed with or without CP3. As things stand, they arent going to the finals,they arent beating the Warriors. Dantoni's record against Pop is like Everton's against us, and if he plays a 7 man rotation again in the playoffs, against the Spurs, they arent winning that series either.

You cant win a championship without having a solid defense.

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Re: NBA Season 2016-17 Discussion
« Reply #3233 on: June 29, 2017, 04:01:37 pm »
They were going to be a top 3 seed with or without CP3. As things stand, they arent going to the finals,they arent beating the Warriors. Dantoni's record against Pop is like Everton's against us, and if he plays a 7 man rotation again in the playoffs, against the Spurs, they arent winning that series either.

You cant win a championship without having a solid defense.

Yeah, I'm inclined to agree with this. All this trade does really is makes them a contender for best of the rest in the Western Conference. I honestly don't think Paul George would even be enough to get them by the Warriors either.

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Re: NBA Season 2016-17 Discussion
« Reply #3234 on: June 29, 2017, 04:10:27 pm »
Well what you're saying now is different to 'I have no idea how this will work because they're both ballhogs'.

Unfortunately the Warriors and Pop are incredible but if you have Harden on your roster then you need to gamble and try to do whatever you can. It's a great trade. Also, it would have been an 8 man rotation but Nene was injured.

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Re: NBA Season 2016-17 Discussion
« Reply #3235 on: June 29, 2017, 04:29:29 pm »
I know mate, Im just keeping the conversation going as you said some interesting things.

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Re: NBA Season 2016-17 Discussion
« Reply #3236 on: June 29, 2017, 09:50:50 pm »
Apparently Doc Rivers turned down Knicks offer of Melo and Sasha Vujacic for Austin Rivers, Jamal Crawford and Paul Pierce because he didn't want to trade his son.

If this true I can't blame Paul for leaving.
yeah think Stephen A said that, absolutely ridiculous them turning down that deal


looks like there are more family issues in the NBA between father and son, bit different tho

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19767673/ainge-family-public-tug-war-gordon-hayward

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Re: NBA Season 2016-17 Discussion
« Reply #3237 on: June 29, 2017, 10:30:38 pm »
Imagine being DeAndre Drummond though. CP leaving, Griffin likely to leave. You being held hostage when you wanted to :lmao
I'm telling you, Bowie died and it's all gone to fuck.

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Re: NBA Season 2016-17 Discussion
« Reply #3238 on: June 29, 2017, 11:44:20 pm »
CP3 trade, Phil being fired, Lakers making moves, Butler left, Paul George, Blake, Hayward, Millsap, Lamarcus likely to leave.

This is definitely one of the most active NBA summer i remember, i can't even keep track anymore.

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Re: NBA Season 2016-17 Discussion
« Reply #3239 on: June 30, 2017, 12:22:31 am »
I'm hoping we [Spurs] sign George Hill if we can't find any other PG's.  We're listening to offers for Lamarcus, we need to cut our loses, he's been making noise about not being happy. If we sign D. Rose, I'm going to throw a fit.