Topic: MPs back smoking ban for those born after 2009

[Barneylfc∗]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68824493

MPs have backed a plan to ban anyone born after 2009 from buying cigarettes, effectively ensuring it will become law.

The measures, championed by Prime Minister Rishi Sunak, survived despite opposition from several leading Tory figures - including two ex-PMs.

Health Secretary Victoria Atkins told MPs "there is no liberty in addiction" as she defended the plans.

The Tobacco and Vapes Bill passed by 383 votes to 67.

If they become law, the UK's smoking laws will be among the strictest in the world.

The UK's approach is thought to have been inspired by a similar law in New Zealand, which was later repealed after a change in government.

Speaking in the House of Commons, Ms Atkins said the plan would create a "smoke free generation".

However, several Tory MPs, including former prime minister Liz Truss, voted against the bill, arguing it would limit personal freedom.

Last week, ex-prime minster Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson called the smoking ban "absolutely nuts" during a speech at a Conservative conference in Ottawa, Canada.

"When the party of Winston Churchill wants to ban cigars, donnez-moi un break as they say in Quebec, it's just mad," he said.

Conservative MPs were given a free vote on the bill, meaning they were not ordered to vote with the government. But full support by Labour's front bench ensured the measures passed.

There are still several more steps needed before it becomes law, such as votes in the House of Lords, but it is possible that the bill could now become law before the general election, expected in the second half of 2024.

Labour's shadow health and social care secretary Wes Streeting accused Mr Sunak of "putting the bill at risk" by granting a free vote "because he is too weak to stand up to the Liz Truss-wing of his party".

"If we are privileged enough to form the next government, Labour will implement this ban, so young people today are even less likely to smoke than they are to vote Conservative," he added.

In total, 178 Tory MPs voted to support the plan but 57 voted against, including Business Secretary Kemi Badenoch and Conservative Party Deputy Chair Jonathan Gullis.

Foreign Office minister Anne-Marie Trevelyan also signalled her opposition but ultimately abstained on the vote.

She was one of some 106 Tories listed as having "no vote recorded", including Penny Mordaunt, the leader of the House of Commons.

Not all those listed in this way will have abstained, as some will have received permission to miss the vote.

Lee Anderson, an ex-deputy chair of the Conservative Party who defected to Reform UK last month, also voted against the bill.

Mr Sunak used his conference speech in October of last year to unveil his plans to ban people born after 1 January 2009 from buying tobacco products.

'Free society'
The debate on Tuesday was MPs' first chance to debate the legislation implementing the ban.

Ms Truss was one of the first to speak against the bill, telling the House of Commons it risked infantilising people.

"It is very important that until people have decision-making capability while they are growing up that we protect them but I think the whole idea that we can protect adults from themselves is hugely problematic."

Her concern was echoed by some of her fellow Conservative MPs.

Former immigration minister Robert Jenrick, tipped as a potential contender to run for the Tory leadership, also came out against the policy.

On social media he said he was against the bill because he "believes in personal freedom".

"I also believe in the principle of equality under the law. A phased ban of smoking would be an affront to that," he added.

Former minister Sir Jake Berry said he was more concerned about "the addiction of the government to telling people what to do" than he was about people addicted to nicotine.

"I want to live in a free society where I am free to make both good and bad decisions."

Ms Atkins said she understood their concerns about "banning things" but defended the bill arguing: "Nicotine robs people of their freedom to choose."

"The vast majority of smokers start when they are young, and three quarters say that if they could turn back the clock they would not have started."

Earlier in the day, England's chief medical officer Sir Chris Whitty said once people become addicted to smoking "their choice is taken away".

He said: "When I was a junior doctor doing surgery I remember the tragedy of seeing people, whose legs had had to be cut off because of the smoking that had damaged their arteries, outside the hospital weeping as they lit up because they were trapped by addiction - that is not choice."

Tobacco use is the UK's single biggest preventable cause of death, killing two-thirds of long-term users and causing 80,000 deaths every year.

On top of that, a patient is admitted to hospital with a smoking-related condition, such as heart disease, strokes and lung cancer, almost every minute in England.

The bill also aims to make vapes less appealing to children, with new restrictions on flavours and packaging.

Trading standards officers would also get new powers to issue on-the-spot £100 fines to shops selling tobacco or vapes to children, with all the money raised going towards further enforcement.

Figures show that one in five children has tried vaping despite it being illegal for under-18s, while the number of children using vapes has tripled in the past three years.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68833975

The UK government's plan to ban anyone in the UK born after 2009 from buying cigarettes is a good policy, First Minister Michelle O'Neill has said.

The measures, championed by the prime minister, survived despite opposition from several leading Tory figures.

The Democratic Unionist Party's (DUP's) seven MPs also voted against the bill, but said they plan to work to improve the legislation.

DUP MP Sammy Wilson raised concerns about how it will be implemented.

Alliance's Stephen Farry was the only Northern Ireland MP who voted in favour of the ban.

The government has said the move will still apply in Northern Ireland.

It will require approval from the Northern Ireland Assembly by the passing of what is known as a legislative consent motion (LCM).

On Wednesday, Ms O'Neill said the intention was to create a smoke-free generation, and that she was conscious of the dangers of smoking.

She said the executive had supported a proposal from Health Minister Robin Swann to bring an LCM to the assembly.

The Sinn Féin vice president said any suggestion that the Windsor Framework or EU regulations could prevent the law from applying in Northern Ireland had "not been brought to our attention".

Deputy First Minister Emma Little-Pengelly said the bill would need to be scrutinised.

But the DUP assembly member said an agreement in principle had been reached within the executive to include Northern Ireland in the legislation.

We heard from Sammy Wilson in the chamber yesterday raising concerns about how this was going to be implemented, concerns about retailers and that he thought this legislation wasn't thought through.

That's why he was making it very clear that he was going to be opposing this ban - as did the other six DUP MPs.

The DUP insists it's going to work on it by way of amendments as it progresses through Parliament to try and tighten it up and make it more workable.

As for the two SDLP MPs, Colum Eastwood and Claire Hanna, I don't think they were in the chamber yesterday, although it is understood they support the ban.

DUP MP Ian Paisley raised concerns about whether the Windsor Framework would stop the ban coming into law in Northern Ireland, but Health Secretary Victoria Atkins said it was the government's intention that it would.

The Northern Ireland Executive and Health Minister Robin Swann have made it very clear they support the ban coming into force here.

The Tobacco and Vapes Bill passed by 383 votes to 67 in the Commons.

Health Secretary Victoria Atkins told MPs "there is no liberty in addiction" as she defended the plans.

If they become law, the UK's smoking laws will be among the strictest in the world.

The UK's approach is thought to have been inspired by a similar law in New Zealand, which was later repealed after a change in government.

In the Commons, DUP MP Ian Paisley asked for a despatch box guarantee that the law would apply equally to all parts of the UK.

"I have raised a number of concerns about the fact that because we have a land border with the European Union, the EU will insist, under the Windsor Framework, that it can block the implementation of the bill in Northern Ireland," he said.

Ms Atkins replied: "If he [Mr Paisley] or his colleagues in Belfast have concerns that there may be ways in which it could somehow be circumnavigated, we will listen carefully, but I should be clear that our intention is that the bill applies to all children and young people across the UK."

The government said it was a UK-wide bill and the Windsor Framework did not affect Northern Ireland's ability to introduce any of the measures in the bill.

As a 42 year old smoker for pretty much 30 years bar the odd couple of times I've went a couple of months off it, I fully welcome this.

Baffled as to why anyone would be opposed to it.

[killer-heels]

Baffled as to why anyone would be opposed to it.

£££

[redbyrdz]

They should just ban smoking outright, if they want to get rid of it. In a couple of years, who is  going to check if the middle-aged men outside the pub are.old enough to be smoking? Does a 70-year old have to get their 72-year old brother to go an buy them cigs? It's not a workable ban.

[Sammy5IsAlive]

They should just ban smoking outright, if they want to get rid of it. In a couple of years, who is  going to check if the middle-aged men outside the pub are.old enough to be smoking? Does a 70-year old have to get their 72-year old brother to go an buy them cigs? It's not a workable ban.

They aren't making smoking illegal for anyone - just the sale of products to people under a certain age.

It's as workable as any other existing age restrictions.

Shops will just ask for everybody to provide ID for any tobacco/vaping products. No ID no sale.

As a nicotine addict (now on vapes) I think it is a brilliant idea.

[TheShanklyGates]

The vast majority of people who smoke start before they turn 18 meaning it's already illegal to buy tobacco products when most establish the habit.

Drug prohibition simply doesn't work. Never has, never will. All it will do is criminalise users and create black markets that will take the sales revenue out of the pocket of the government and legitimate businesses and put it in the hands of criminal gangs.

If criminalising users stopped them using there would be no drug users which clearly isn't the case. Instead it makes addicts less likely to seek treatment and forces them to deal with shady characters to obtain their supply rather than buying from regulated sellers.

We should be looking at the evidence from the other countries and be legalising cannabis and decriminalising use of other drugs but instead we're going down the regressive authoritarian route of trying to ban everything. Tobacco use in the UK has already reduced massively over the last few decades thanks to public health campaigns, heavy regulation on advertising/packaging/media depictions and the high duty. That's the route we should keep pushing.

[Sammy5IsAlive]

The vast majority of people who smoke start before they turn 18 meaning it's already illegal to buy tobacco products when most establish the habit.

Drug prohibition simply doesn't work. Never has, never will. All it will do is criminalise users and create black markets that will take the sales revenue out of the pocket of the government and legitimate businesses and put it in the hands of criminal gangs.

If criminalising users stopped them using there would be no drug users which clearly isn't the case. Instead it makes addicts less likely to seek treatment and forces them to deal with shady characters to obtain their supply rather than buying from regulated sellers.

We should be looking at the evidence from the other countries and be legalising cannabis and decriminalising use of other drugs but instead we're going down the regressive authoritarian route of trying to ban everything. Tobacco use in the UK has already reduced massively over the last few decades thanks to public health campaigns, heavy regulation on advertising/packaging/media depictions and the high duty. That's the route we should keep pushing.

Isn't that talking at cross purposes to this proposal though? It's not the users that would be criminalised but sellers? People who wanted to smoke 'under-age' would not have to deal with shady characters to get cigarettes - they would just have to ask a friend to buy them from a shop. The proposal isn't trying to reduce smoking through sanction but through inconvenience.

FWIW I agree with you on drug decriminalisation - I just think this is a completely different issue.

[west_london_red]

They aren't making smoking illegal for anyone - just the sale of products to people under a certain age.

It's as workable as any other existing age restrictions.

Shops will just ask for everybody to provide ID for any tobacco/vaping products. No ID no sale.

As a nicotine addict (now on vapes) I think it is a brilliant idea.

Likewise I am vaping now, worst thing I ever did was start smoking and unlike most I didn’t start until I was about 20 

[Speedy Molby]

All adults should be equal in the eyes of the law. This bill casually throws that principle in the bin. Sunak knows he will be out this year and wants a legacy.

[Shankly998]

All adults should be equal in the eyes of the law. This bill casually throws that principle in the bin. Sunak knows he will be out this year and wants a legacy.

It's not going to be reversed at least in the near future labour heavily backed the bill after all

[JoeH]

In a few years, the black market for Bifftas will be rampant.

[Musketeer Gripweed]

They must be losing a fortune in taxes already with the amount of people stopping smoking.

[KurtVerbose]

Funny to read this and find that those most pro it are smokers.

I've never smoked. Hate smoke. Hate the trash that they leave. Despise smokers for their stupidity. No idea why anyone would pick up a cigarette and think it a good idea to start smoking.

Yet I don't really agree with this law. As above, all adults should be treated equally before the law and it seems unenforceable to make it illegal for a 42 year old but not a 43 year old.

How about this for an idea though - instead of smokers taking 30 years to die from the effects of smoking why not just make cigarettes instantly fatal? Smoking would end over night.

[thaddeus]

Funny to read this and find that those most pro it are smokers.

I've never smoked. Hate smoke. Hate the trash that they leave. Despise smokers for their stupidity. No idea why anyone would pick up a cigarette and think it a good idea to start smoking.

Yet I don't really agree with this law. As above, all adults should be treated equally before the law and it seems unenforceable to make it illegal for a 42 year old but not a 43 year old.

How about this for an idea though - instead of smokers taking 30 years to die from the effects of smoking why not just make cigarettes instantly fatal? Smoking would end over night.

That took an unexpected turn from moderate libertarian to maniacal mass murderer! 

It reminds me of a book I read many, many years ago where a despotic government laced all benefits cheques with a deadly toxin that killed anyone within a few days that handled it.  I think it was written during the Thatcher years...

Having kids that are young enough that they and their mates would never be able to buy cigarettes legally I think this is a good thing.  Given the health implications of smoking it's an anomaly that it was ever legal in the first place.  Just as leaded petrol was phased out and a slightly less harmful alternative provided, the same is happening here with vaping.

[BarryCrocker]

I smoked from 15-26. Bar the cancer risks I often think about how stupid I was having 900° an inch from my face. Fcking mental when you think about it.

[Musketeer Gripweed]

I've stopped counting now, but I've been off the cigarettes for about 13 years now. I used to tick every day off on my wall chart and multiply it by £10. Amazing the amount of money I saved and probably my main motivation for staying off them.

If only had actually saved any of the money, obviously.

[KurtVerbose]

That took an unexpected turn from moderate libertarian to maniacal mass murderer! 

It reminds me of a book I read many, many years ago where a despotic government laced all benefits cheques with a deadly toxin that killed anyone within a few days that handled it.  I think it was written during the Thatcher years...

Having kids that are young enough that they and their mates would never be able to buy cigarettes legally I think this is a good thing.  Given the health implications of smoking it's an anomaly that it was ever legal in the first place.  Just as leaded petrol was phased out and a slightly less harmful alternative provided, the same is happening here with vaping.

Not maniacal mass murderer at all. The package would come with a warning. The only difference with the current warning would instead of just 'smoking kills' it would be 'smoking kills right away'.

Maybe add 'we're not kidding this time'.

[Schmarn]

They should ban chewing gum while they're at it. Disgusting stuff and the only food product for which it's apparently socially acceptable to chuck it half-chewed on the floor or stuck to the underside of a table.

I'm all in favour of a Singaporean style system of punishment for it.

[ToneLa]

As desperate lurches by a doomed Prime Minister as a last-gasp but ill-conceived attempt to be remembered go...

it's alright

Don't understand the age thing really, probably just doesn't wanna lose the oldies' votes

But hey, prohibition always works don't it.