Topic: China - a Fascist State

[Yorkykopite]

your links include the words hypothesis and theory - well that's real evidence then

Isn't that how scientific enquiry - or indeed any enquiry - works? Christ, if the links didn't "include" those words I'd be a bit worried.

[liverbloke]

Isn't that how scientific enquiry - or indeed any enquiry - works? Christ, if the links didn't "include" those words I'd be a bit worried.

my point is that there is no hard evidence - and until there is then it's just a discussion

and that's all

[west_london_red]

no offence meant to west london red

but the conclusion from the last few posts?

again - all speculation

and if you're going to speculate then what are your sources?

so fair enough if we want to 'guess' then i'll go with aliens

and of course we can't trust china - but can we trust america? can we trust our own government?

who really are playing us all?

when more evidence comes forward (but by whom?) then it might prick my interest but i'll leave you guys to ponder 

This is a topic on China, the virus originated as far as we know in China despite attempts by China to point the finger elsewhere. That if nothing else is worthy of discussion.

Are we speculating? Yes we probably are, but any theory right now is just a theory, so yes some publications caveat what they say by framing it has a hypothesis but again that should be applied to any theory to the origin of the virus, not just the lab leak theory until there’s conclusive evidence one way or the other.

What we do know as an undeniable fact though is that there is a lab in Wuhan that researched bat viruses and the first place the virus was detected was Wuhan, and it’s closest know virus is a bat virus.

[Jiminy Cricket]

your links include the words hypothesis and theory - well that's real evidence then

then you have an argument with yourself at the end of your post

I was quite clear in my post - there has been speculation and discussion within the media. You seemed either oblivious to this, or are engaging in less than genuine dialogue. The discussion here regarded the heightened media interest (based upon the underlying renewed interest from the intelligence and scientific communities). It is becoming increasing clear that your comments here stem not from ignorance of wider discussion within the media, but, rather, a weird desire to win argument which really does not exist (here). There is heightened speculation within the media - I provided the citations you requested - end of. There has been no discussion (here) about the scientific merits of SARS-CoV-2 origination in a Wuhan lab.

[liverbloke]

...and live wet markets

...and cross contamination

...and the fact that there's that lab because of the said bat virus threat

but i'm not against you expanding the argument/discussion/debate/theory/hypothesis i guess i would invest more time in it once we have some real hard evidence

but let's not let hard evidence get in the way of a good story

[ChaChaMooMoo]

Ok fellas lets not get this thread locked. Forums need that space. Otherwise it will be information that wont be ever discussed because it runs the risk of locking the thread.

Regardless of its origin, China wont allow anyone to investigate the origins of this virus. And thats a fact.

[princeoftherocks]

Ok fellas lets not get this thread locked. Forums need that space. Otherwise it will be information that wont be ever discussed because it runs the risk of locking the thread.

Regardless of its origin, China wont allow anyone to investigate the origins of this virus. And thats a fact.

It hasn't stopped me.



edit---

[ChaChaMooMoo]

How much butt hurt does does it take to make a nation go from a cultural and heritage stronghold to a weeping snowflake? China and the CCP knows.

China denounces G7 after statement on Xinjiang and Hong Kong

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-57466576

China has accused the G7 of "political manipulation" after it criticised Beijing over a range of issues.

In a joint statement at the end of a three-day summit, leaders of the G7 countries urged China to "respect human rights and fundamental freedoms".

Issues highlighted included abuses against the Uyghur Muslim minority group and the crackdown on Hong Kong pro-democracy activists.

China's embassy in the UK accused the G7 of "baseless accusations".

"Stop slandering China, stop interfering in China's internal affairs, and stop harming China's interests," a spokesman said on Monday.

The statement by the G7 - the world's seven largest so-called advanced economies - included pledges on a number of issues, such as ending the coronavirus pandemic and steps to tackle climate change, as well as references to China.

The group, made up of Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, the UK and the US, called on China to respect human rights in Xinjiang, a north-western region that is home to the Uyghurs and other Muslim minorities.

Experts generally agree that China has detained as many as a million Uyghurs and other Muslims and imprisoned hundreds of thousands more in its crackdown in Xinjiang, which began in 2017. There have been widespread reports of physical and psychological torture inside prisons and detention camps in the region. China denies the allegations.

The G7 statement also called for rights and freedoms to be respected in Hong Kong, where a new security law passed by China last year has made it easier to punish protesters. The leaders said Hong Kong should retain a "high degree of autonomy", as established under agreements when it was handed back to China in 1997.

The statement underscored the "importance of peace and stability" across the Taiwan Strait - a heavily-policed waterway that separates China and Taiwan. China sees democratic Taiwan as a breakaway province, but Taiwan sees itself as a sovereign state.

It also demanded a new investigation in China into the origins of Covid-19.

US President Joe Biden said he was "satisfied" with the statement's language on China.

But the Chinese embassy in the UK opposed the mentions of Xinjiang, Hong Kong and Taiwan, which it said distorted the facts and exposed the "sinister intentions of a few countries such as the United States".

A stronger message on China is expected to be issued by leaders of the Nato military alliance at a meeting on Monday.

"We know that China does not share our values... we need to respond together as an alliance," Nato Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg said as he arrived at the one-day summit in Brussels.

White House national security adviser Jake Sullivan said the country would feature in Nato's communique "in a more robust way than we've ever seen before".

G7 summit: China says small groups do not rule the world

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-57458822

China has warned the G7 leaders that the days when a "small" group of countries decided the fate of the world were long gone.

The comments, by a spokesman for the Chinese embassy in London, come as the leaders, who are meeting in England, seek a unified position over China.

They adopted a spending plan in response to a massive Chinese scheme.

Analysts say US President Joe Biden is determined that Western powers need to act now to counter a resurgent China.

On Sunday, the G7 leaders are expected to issue a closing declaration promising more financial support for developing countries hit by the climate crisis, and funds for infrastructure projects in the developing world, an alternative to a Chinese programme.

President Biden said he wanted the US-backed Build Back Better World (B3W) plan to be a higher-quality alternative to Beijing's Belt and Road Initiative (BRI). The scheme has helped finance trains, roads, and ports in many countries, but has been criticised for saddling some with debt.

A spokesman for the Chinese embassy in London was quoted by Reuters news agency as saying: "The days when global decisions were dictated by a small group of countries are long gone.

"We always believe that countries, big or small, strong or weak, poor or rich, are equals, and that world affairs should be handled through consultation by all countries."

In a statement on Saturday, the G7 countries - the world's seven wealthiest democracies - said their infrastructure plan would offer a "values-driven, high-standard and transparent" partnership. Details of how it will be financed remain unclear.

BBC political correspondent Rob Watson, at the summit, says that President Biden is trying to frame the post-pandemic world as a struggle between democracies and autocracies.

But there appears to be no consensus yet among the G7 nations over whether China is a partner, a competitor or a security threat, our correspondent adds.

Beijing tells Nato to stop hyping up China threat

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-57479969

China has accused Nato of slandering its peaceful development after alliance leaders warned about "systemic challenges" coming from Beijing.

China's actions, including expanding its nuclear arsenal, threatened "rules-based international order", Nato said.

It was the first time Nato had placed China at the centre of its agenda.

In its response, China said its defence policy was "defensive in nature" and urged Nato to "devote more of its energy to promoting dialogue".

"Our pursuit of defence and military modernisation is justified, reasonable, open and transparent," China's mission to the European Union said in a statement.

It added that Nato should view China's development in a "rational manner" and "stop taking China's legitimate interests and rights as an excuse to manipulate bloc politics, create confrontation and fuel geopolitical competition".

Nato's statement came at the end of a one-day summit in Brussels on Monday.

It marked Joe Biden's first Nato meeting as US president.

The powerful political and military alliance between 30 European and North American countries sees Russia as a main threat. Mr Biden is due to meet Russian President Vladimir Putin in Geneva on Wednesday.

Why is Nato focusing on China?

According to the summit's communiqué (concluding statement), China's "stated ambitions and assertive behaviour present systemic challenges to the rules-based international order and to areas relevant to Alliance security".

"We remain concerned with China's frequent lack of transparency and use of disinformation," it says.

Nato chief Jens Stoltenberg told reporters: "We're not entering a new Cold War and China is not our adversary, not our enemy."

But, he added: "We need to address together, as the alliance, the challenges that the rise of China poses to our security".

China is one of the world's leading military and economic powers, whose ruling Communist Party has a tight grip on politics, daily life and much of society.

The Chinese military currently has the largest armed forces in the world, with over two million personnel on active duty.

Nato has become increasingly concerned about the growing military capabilities of China, which it sees as a threat to the security and democratic values of its members.

In recent years, the alliance has also grown wary of China's activities in Africa, where it has set up army bases.

UK Prime Minister Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson said: "When it comes to China, I don't think anybody around the table wants to descend into a new Cold War with China."

Nato's tough message on China followed criticism of the country by the G7, a group of major economies that met for a summit in England last week.

In a communiqué G7 leaders criticised China for alleged human rights abuses and demanded a transparent investigation of the origins of Covid-19 in the country.

In response, China accused the G7 of "lies, rumours and baseless accusations" in a statement through its embassy in the UK.

And just 2 weeks ago...

Xi Jinping calls for more 'loveable' image for China in bid to make friends

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-57327177

China's president has said he wants the country to "expand its circle of friends" by revamping its image.

Xi Jinping told senior Communist Party officials it was important to present an image of a "credible, loveable and respectable China", according to a report by state-run news agency Xinhua.

It marks a possible shift in China's diplomatic approach, which analysts say has become increasingly antagonistic.

The comments came amid deteriorating relations with key global powers.

China has faced criticism over human rights abuses against the Uyghur Muslim minority group and the crackdown on Hong Kong pro-democracy campaigners, among other issues.

It recently denounced US efforts to further investigate whether Covid-19 came from a Chinese lab, accusing the Americans of "political manipulation and blame shifting".

Mr Xi told officials on Monday it was important for China to tell its story in a positive way.

"It is necessary to make friends, unite and win over the majority, and constantly expand the circle of friends [when it comes to] international public opinion," he was quoted by Xinhua as saying.

He said the country should be "open and confident, but also modest and humble" in its communication with the world.

Mr Xi also said the party's propaganda organisations must make it clear that Beijing wanted "nothing but the Chinese people's happiness and good fortune".

The China Daily was expected to "stay true to its duty of bridging China and the world for greater communication", the newspaper said of itself.

Analysts said Mr Xi's remarks marked a rare admission of Beijing's isolation.

Mr Xi became president of China in 2012, ushering in an era of increased assertiveness and authoritarianism.

The country's diplomats have become increasingly vocal in recent years, deploying sarcasm and aggression against those who challenge its positions.

The strategy has been dubbed "Wolf Warrior" diplomacy - named after patriotic blockbuster movies in which elite Chinese special forces take on American-led mercenaries.

Anyone who follows China's diplomats on Twitter will know just how undiplomatic their tone has often become in recent years.

They have been encouraged to pursue a "Wolf Warrior" strategy of confrontational and, at times, abusive messaging, even directly attacking foreign governments.

So if Xi Jinping really wants his administration to be seen as more "loveable", this will require a sudden, 180-degree change in approach.

From the Philippines to Australia to Europe, popular sentiment towards the Chinese government has been collapsing. At least some of this has been blamed on aggressive public statements.

It's possible that Mr Xi has now been persuaded by those - including Communist Party loyalists - who have been arguing that the, sometimes unhinged, "Wolf Warrior" approach has actually been counterproductive.

The crucial line from Mr Xi to the Politburo was possibly when he said that the Party leadership needs to get a "grip on the tone" of communications with the outside world. Does this mean the tone has been spiraling out of control? Many would say yes.

The problem, of course, is that so much damage has been done that it will take more than just a change in rhetoric to repair it. It would probably require a change in actions.

It's also just possible that General Secretary Xi's speech is being misinterpreted in the tea leaves.

[jooneyisdagod]

Now an article (yet to be peer-reviewed) that suggests that several sequences pertaining to covid samples were deleted. The implications of this could be broad reaching.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/23/science/coronavirus-sequences.html

[jambutty]

Are the Chinese wrong for trying to remove religion from their society?

[BarryCrocker]

Are the Chinese wrong for trying to remove religion freedom from their society?

That's the objective.

[Nobby Reserve]

Are the Chinese wrong for trying to remove religion from their society?

If the Uighur Camps are the method of achieving this, then yes.

I'm no friend of religions, but banning them or preventing people choosing to follow them is - IMO - fundamentally wrong.

[Yorkykopite]

Are the Chinese wrong for trying to remove religion from their society?

The word you're missing Jam is 'forcibly', and then the question rather answers itself.

Perhaps you're missing the irony too. Chinese communism, starting with Mao, is a religion. It has its sacred texts, turns leadership into a cult, is bent on converting non believers and persecuting heretics and is a jealous god, holding only ONE truth which you deny at your peril.

[Sangria]

Are the Chinese wrong for trying to remove religion from their society?

China isn't just trying to remove religion. They're trying to remove disparate nations from their country. For example, people no longer speak Cantonese in Hong Kong. They still speak the same dialect as Cantonese, but Cantonese is associated with the colonial past, so it's called by another name instead.

[Kashinoda]

China isn't just trying to remove religion. They're trying to remove disparate nations from their country. For example, people no longer speak Cantonese in Hong Kong. They still speak the same dialect as Cantonese, but Cantonese is associated with the colonial past, so it's called by another name instead.

The stuff they've been doing to slowly suffocate the culture in Hong Kong is horrific. The CCP is so painfully good at it.

[villagelife]

Get on this, Whats the point of the hammer?  Joke,  absolopute joke. Just China bullying again. They will probably fuck RAWKS servers again.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-57879475

[villagelife]

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jul/19/chinese-unesco-official-defends-plan-to-list-great-barrier-reef-in-danger

[CornerFlag]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-58015367

China warns UK as carrier strike group approaches

China has warned the UK's Carrier Strike Group, led by the aircraft carrier HMS Queen Elizabeth not to carry out any "improper acts" as it enters the contested South China Sea.

'The People's Liberation Army Navy is at a high state of combat readiness' says the pro-government Global Times, seen as a mouthpiece for the ruling Chinese Communist Party (CCP).

China has been closely monitoring the progress eastward of the Carrier Strike Group, which is currently sailing through the South China Sea en route to Japan, while accusing Britain of "still living in its colonial days".

The Royal Navy has been carrying out exercises with the Singaporean navy and Britain's Defence Secretary Ben Wallace has made no secret of the intention to conduct a so-called "Freedom of Navigation" exercise through the South China Sea.

Contrary to a 2016 international court ruling, China claims much of that sea as its own and has been busy building artificial reefs and runways, some of them close to the territorial waters of neighbouring states.

Both US and Royal Navy warships have recently challenged China's claims to sovereignty in the South China Sea by purposely sailing through it.

So the question now is: will we see a close encounter similar to the one that took place in the Black Sea in June when the UK's HMS Defender, a Type 45 destroyer, was buzzed by Russian warplanes as it passed close to the disputed Crimean peninsula?

"China is not looking for a direct confrontation with a major US ally in the South China Sea," says Veerle Nouwens, a senior research fellow at the Royal United Services Insitute (Rusi), a London think tank. "But it will certainly make its intentions clear."

If the UK conducts freedom of navigation exercises through that sea, then Ms Nouwens believes we are likely to see a repeat of what happened when HMS Albion sailed through it in 2018. It was closely shadowed by a Chinese warship from just 200m away, warning it to leave, while Chinese aircraft flew low over the British vessel.

China has been holding extensive military exercises in the region this week, practising beach assaults in a move that has worried some analysts it is preparing to eventually invade Taiwan.

The PLA Navy will use the UK's Carrier Strike Group's presence in the South China Sea "as a chance for practice and for studying the UK's latest warships up close", says the Global Times.

It quotes a spokesman for the Chinese embassy in London as saying: "The threat to freedom of navigation could only come from the one who deploys a carrier strike group to the South China Sea half a world away and flexes its naval muscles to heighten the military tension in that region."

But while the arrival of the Carrier Strike Group in the region has provoked some angry words from Beijing, Rusi's Research Fellow for Naval Power, Sidharth Kaushal, points out that when it comes to naval standoffs, "China's actions have been calibrated as being well below the threshold of anything that would start a shooting war".

The deployment of HMS Queen Elizabeth and its escort ships to East Asia is seen as part of the British government's bid to play a more prominent role in global security, as set out in the government's recent Integrated Review.

France, too, as well as other European nations, has been turning its attentions towards the South China Sea as China's growing military and economic power appears unstoppable.

China has recently embarked on a major uplift in its nuclear ballistic missile arsenal, building new launch silos in the remote Xinjiang region. It has also been developing Hypersonic Glide Vehicles, high-velocity missiles that can reach speeds of up to eight times the speed of sound and which have been dubbed "carrier killers".

Alarming, especially this sentence for me: "China has been holding extensive military exercises in the region this week, practising beach assaults in a move that has worried some analysts it is preparing to eventually invade Taiwan."

[Andy @ Allerton!]

This is a topic on China, the virus originated as far as we know in China despite attempts by China to point the finger elsewhere. That if nothing else is worthy of discussion.

Are we speculating? Yes we probably are, but any theory right now is just a theory, so yes some publications caveat what they say by framing it has a hypothesis but again that should be applied to any theory to the origin of the virus, not just the lab leak theory until there’s conclusive evidence one way or the other.

What we do know as an undeniable fact though is that there is a lab in Wuhan that researched bat viruses and the first place the virus was detected was Wuhan, and it’s closest know virus is a bat virus.

Seems a bit conspiracy bullshitness to me as an impartial oserver

[west_london_red]

Seems a bit conspiracy bullshitness to me as an impartial oserver

Which part do you disagree with? Don’t get me wrong, I’m certainly not saying the lab theory is definitely what happened or even anything close to that, it’s a possibility and no more then that for me.

[farawayred]

Seems a bit conspiracy bullshitness to me as an impartial oserver

No one knows for sure, Andy, and we may not know for years.

https://scienceexchange.caltech.edu/topics/covid-19-coronavirus-sars-cov-2/ask-expert-coronavirus/pamela-bjorkman-coronavirus

[Kashinoda]

Fuck off.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-58022068

Hong Kong police are investigating an incident where a crowd watching the Olympics booed China's anthem.

Hundreds gathered at a shopping mall on Monday to watch a broadcast and cheer on Hong Kong fencer Edgar Cheung, who won gold in the men's individual foil.

When the Chinese national anthem was played, some in the crowd began jeering while others shouted "We are Hong Kong", video filmed at the scene shows.

It is illegal to insult the anthem under a recently passed law.

Anyone found guilty of flouting the national anthem law could be jailed up to three years and fined HK$50,000 (£4,600, $6,400).

Reports also said that the British colonial flag was flown and some had chanted protest slogans, which could possibly violate the national security law which forbids anything that incites "secession" and could result in life in jail.

[Yorkykopite]

"It is illegal to insult the anthem under a recently passed law."

Fascism.

[Gerry Attrick]

Here's a question; why did Britain sign Hong Kong over to China in the 90s? Surely we knew we'd be condemning them to this at some time?

[Elmo!]

Here's a question; why did Britain sign Hong Kong over to China in the 90s? Surely we knew we'd be condemning them to this at some time?

We only had a 99 year lease on it.

[John C]

Seems a bit conspiracy bullshitness to me as an impartial observer

Might not be mate.
There was a superb podcast on Slate a few months ago on which they discussed the amount of labs all over the world chasing to find and cure the next virus.

The discussion didn't condemn the Wuham lab, it acknowledged the inevitability of a leak which could have been anywhere.

The major issue was that it occurred in China, the worse place it could probably happen for so many reasons. Secrecy, denial, vastness of population, etc.

[west_london_red]

"It is illegal to insult the anthem under a recently passed law."

Fascism.

That’s nothing unique to China though, plenty of countries have laws against burning the flag etc which is pretty much the same thing.

[So… Howard Philips]

Might not be mate.
There was a superb podcast on Slate a few months ago on which they discussed the amount of labs all over the world chasing to find and cure the next virus.

The discussion didn't condemn the Wuham lab, it acknowledged the inevitability of a leak which could have been anywhere.

The major issue was that it occurred in China, the worse place it could probably happen for so many reasons. Secrecy, denial, vastness of population, etc.

Smallpox leak from UK lab;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-45101091

[John C]

Smallpox leak from UK lab;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-45101091

Flippin hec mate, thanks for throwing that up.
I should have added in my post that it's all supposedly in the pursuit of science and not anything cynical.
It's not the first and certainly won't be the last.

[Kashinoda]

We only had a 99 year lease on it.

We had a 99 year lease on New Territories but Hong Kong Island was ours indefinitely.

In addition to giving the New Territories back we also gave China Hong Kong Island, this on the grounds of the Sino-British Joint Declaration which was meant to preserve Hong Kong's way of life under the "one country, two systems" principle until 2047.

China have compeltely shat on this now and in the process broken an international treaty, not like there's fuck all we can do about it.

[Elmo!]

We had a 99 year lease on New Territories but Hong Kong Island was ours indefinitely.

In addition to giving the New Territories back we also gave China Hong Kong Island, this on the grounds of the Sino-British Joint Declaration which was meant to preserve Hong Kong's way of life under the "one country, two systems" principle until 2047.

China have compeltely shat on this now and in the process broken an international treaty, not like there's fuck all we can do about it.

Thanks, I never knew that distinction, thought it was the whole of Hong Kong under the lease. I did wonder how we were able to even negotiate the "one country, two systems" deal (even if it hasn't worked out long term), but I guess handing over Hong Kong Island was the leverage/sweetener).

It seems to me, as a complete non-expert, that realistically hanging on to Hong Kong forever, with China being a rising superpower, and the UK in decline on the world stage was a non-starter in the long term.

[Kashinoda]

Thanks, I never knew that distinction, thought it was the whole of Hong Kong under the lease. I did wonder how we were able to even negotiate the "one country, two systems" deal (even if it hasn't worked out long term), but I guess handing over Hong Kong Island was the leverage/sweetener).

It seems to me, as a complete non-expert, that realistically hanging on to Hong Kong forever, with China being a rising superpower, and the UK in decline on the world stage was a non-starter in the long term.

Yeah you're probably right, the biggest failure was not giving Kong Kong universal suffrage ourselves before we handed it back. We made it easy for China to slowly erode away what democratic freedoms Hong Kong enjoyed. When I lived there back in 2008 I believe Hong Kong was ranked in the top 5 in the freedom of press index, China was very much 'hands off'. The less China needed Hong Kong the less Hong Kong has retained freedoms. It's gone now, I visited a couple of years back and it feels very much a different place.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Might not be mate.
There was a superb podcast on Slate a few months ago on which they discussed the amount of labs all over the world chasing to find and cure the next virus.

The discussion didn't condemn the Wuham lab, it acknowledged the inevitability of a leak which could have been anywhere.

The major issue was that it occurred in China, the worse place it could probably happen for so many reasons. Secrecy, denial, vastness of population, etc.

I can't remember where it was from, but something I read last year was saying that the virus had been examined and that when someone is genetically engineered/modified by a lab, there are certain tell-tale markers on them which is a give-away but they didn't see them on this?

I'll have a poke about and see if I can find it

[kennedy81]

Hasn't this Wuhan lab leak theory been poo-pooed already by WHO?

[John C]

I can't remember where it was from, but something I read last year was saying that the virus had been examined and that when someone is genetically engineered/modified by a lab, there are certain tell-tale markers on them which is a give-away but they didn't see them on this?

I'll have a poke about and see if I can find it

I think it's safe to say that's definitely not the case Andy.

[kennedy81]

I think it's safe to say that's definitely not the case Andy.

[farawayred]

I can't remember where it was from, but something I read last year was saying that the virus had been examined and that when someone is genetically engineered/modified by a lab, there are certain tell-tale markers on them which is a give-away but they didn't see them on this?

I'll have a poke about and see if I can find it

There is a strong suspicion that the virus have been modified. French and Indian scientists came out early on saying that there are four genetic sequences that are "not found in coronaviruses", one of them being that of the HIV. I haven't heard the latter confirmed. The interview with the Caltech scientist I posted above discusses one of the confirmed "strange" genetic codes - the furin cleavage site. That can be introduced into the DNA/RNA with enzymes working like scissors (a Noble price was given to that method a few years ago). So, it could have been man-made introduction of genetic material. But the professor says that some coronaviruses have acquired that sequence through natural evolution, so it can't be proven that Covid is man-made. Hopefully, we'll know one way or the other in 10 years or so.

As for such work on viruses to attain "gain of function" for military applications, every country with resources is doing it. China, Russia, US, UK, France, etc. The trouble with Russia and China, more so the latter, is that they are sloppy and the virus is more likely to escape. The key question for me is what happens afterwards. We haven't had such an escape from the West to know, but we already know what China does - let everyone have the virus so that they avoid economic catastrophe. That's fucking scary! But for them it's the right decision...

[ChaChaMooMoo]

Hasn't this Wuhan lab leak theory been poo-pooed already by WHO?

You mean pooh-poohed?

Hopefully, we'll know one way or the other in 10 years or so.

I don't think so. As long as the world sucks up to China, as long as the dollars/pounds/Euros/Yuan keeps flowing, there is fuckall anyone can do.

I mean, take the example of NBA, Disney, and H&M. Private organizations are made to bow down and apologize for calling a tiny piece of the island by its internationally acclaimed name. And they are not even under geo political umbrella.

They make the money they make, because the people in China buy the stuff they make. As simple as that. Name one organisation in the world, that has the power to give a middle finger to China and escape its shareholders anger?!? NONE. Thats how much soft power they have. Its a but like the cruciatus curse (In harry potter books). Except in this case, they dont even need to use it. And everyone just does what they are asked.

[Macphisto80]

Hasn't this Wuhan lab leak theory been poo-pooed already by WHO?

Speaking of poo-poo, I wonder why no one is mentioning or looking at these little fellas as the potential origin of the virus instead of being adamant of some conspiratorial coverup by the CCP.



It's a Palm Civet. Already known to be the source of the original SARS in 2003. But despite this, people still covet these little things because of what they can produce via their feces, which is a ridiculously expensive brand of coffee called Kopi Luwak, sold in your bourgeois tourist traps around the planet, and sold in swanky shops for about half a grand per 200g. Despite all the warnings, one as recently as September in 2019 by the WWF, these animals are still allowed to be farmed from the wild and kept and sold on the black market next to all kinds of exotic animals. But, hey - so long as the rich can enjoy their overpriced gimmick cuppa joe in the morning sitting in their mink bath robes.

[killer-heels]

Eww.