Topic: Sunderland

[Jake]

Yes. Saying despite your gender being different to mine. Not BECAUSE your gender is different to mine.

Anyway I can see we're not going to agree and I understand why you take the position you do. However I feel the majority of people commenting are just looking to score some moral brownie points.

[The North Bank]

I don't get the heat of the moment half arsed apology either. What was so hot about her question, she didn't exactly two footed him in the head, at no stage did he appear to lose his temper. There was no heat of the moment about it. Just the chosen one showing why women can't be the chosen ones, they're lesser beings, if they don't like that Davey will give em a slap, put them right in their place. He's not sexist, just a disciplinarian.

[B0151?]

Yes. Saying despite your gender being different to mine. Not BECAUSE your gender is different to mine.

Anyway I can see we're not going to agree and I understand why you take the position you do. However I feel the majority of people commenting are just looking to score some moral brownie points.

People don't think he would have threatened a man even 'jokingly', and that 'even though you're a woman' is part of that. 'I'm the man don't have the nerve to question me like that woman.' Those are the vibes I get from that.

Fuck knows what other passive aggressive shite he spouts though.

[classycarra]

I don't get the heat of the moment half arsed apology either. What was so hot about her question, she didn't exactly two footed him in the head, at no stage did he appear to lose his temper. There was no heat of the moment about it. Just the chosen one showing why women can't be the chosen ones, they're lesser beings, if they don't like that Davey will give em a slap, put them right in their place. He's not sexist, just a disciplinarian.

You underestimate how much any criticism gets under his skin. He is always seething when asked questions that don't favour him - there have been more than enough this season to see that, given he and they are shite!

The fact he felt compelled to try to lean on her (with a 'joke') to ease up in future interviews

[The North Bank]

You underestimate how much any criticism gets under his skin. He is always seething when asked questions that don't favour him - there have been more than enough this season to see that, given he and they are shite!

The fact he felt compelled to try to lean on her (with a 'joke') to ease up in future interviews

Then he needs to take a serious look at himself, maybe get psychological help. Because having a short temper is no excuse.
Why doesn't he just retire, he's made enough money out of failing in football, he might even find something he's good at.

[classycarra]

Then he needs to take a serious look at himself, maybe get psychological help. Because having a short temper is no excuse.
Why doesn't he just retire, he's made enough money out of failing in football, he might even find something he's good at.

Yeah absolutely. It's why I have little sympathy for him

[B0151?]

If there is a 'right to offend' then there's a 'right to be offended' imo. You realise that's the lifeblood for casual racism and sexism and all sorts of bullying and discrimination like? Don't speak up when you're uncomfortable and people are making you uncomfortable, just get on with it.

Do you guys really not see how little comments like this are part of the bigger picture, and left unchallenged as OK then can create an environment I'm sure none of you think would be acceptable. I really can't understand why anyone would have issue with Moyes being challenged for such an inappropriate comment.

Unless you're a fan of the whole

[Wool]

I want to live in a democracy but I never want to be offended again.

Domestic violence is obviously a nasty, nasty issue, however as mentioned the difference between saying something and doing it is a huge leap. Like Le Jake says, I've been threatened with a slap off both genders where I work, I don't care, it's only in jest, only if someone actually followed it through and genuinely hit me then I might take issue. In fact there's a girl who playfully digs me occasionally because I wind her up saying she has nits (she doesn't), I wonder whether 8 year olds everywhere would be offended at nit jokes? Or more seriously domestic violence victims about the fact she's given me a little dig in the shoulder?

I don't condone any sort of violence, having said that I am very anti political correctness and think the world would be a better place if people didn't take others words to heart so much and weren't offended so easily. Sticks and stones and all that.

Do you belong to a group where you're likely to face discrimination? Cos it's really fucking easy to whine about people being politically correct when you don't have to worry about that kind of stuff for the most part.

[elsewhere]

Talking about Sunderland, how shite is Januzaj? They are actually lucky that their bid was turned down by Utd and they were only able to loan him.

Also, what's next for Borini? I suppose he wouldn't want to be with them but also i don't see PL teams going for him this summer either.

[Billy The Kid]

What do you want me to say?  How humiliating, soul destroying being beaten by a man is?  And how, I don't find what Moyes has said, in anyway acceptable.  Heat of the moment?  Please!  I don't care if he was laughing at the time, in fact, in some ways that makes it even worse. 

What kind of person finds slapping a woman in any way a joke?  It's not a joke.  It destroys lives.

I am not surprised she laughed it off though, but no way did she find it funny.

No I don't expect you to say that! You don't need to spell it out for us. There isn't any need to even go there. I don't think anyone in here is dismissing the seriousness of physical abuse. Especially when it's a male inflicting it on a female. As I said in the opening line of my previous reply to you: I think any man who harms a woman is a low life piece of shit.

But again, we're not talking about a case of physical abuse here, are we? You seem to be conflating what happened to you with what happened between Moyes and Sparks. They are completely different situations. He didn't hit her - nor did he motion to hit her. He didn't even raise his hand. There was no physicality whatsoever. So again, with respect, I'm sorry to hear you went through the ordeal of physical abuse but I still don't think that justifies your claim that Moyes deserves to be sacked.

He made a stupid comment in response to a line of questioning that was irking him. He shouldn't have said it. It was uncalled for. No one is denying that. I've said he's an idiot for saying it at least 3 or 4 times now. I've also said it was sexist. I've got 5 sisters. 3 of whom work in industries that are predominantly male so I'm glad he was pulled on it. I'm glad he had to make a public apology. Proper order.

Here's the thing though. Sparks has accepted the apology. We can muse and theorize about whether or not she was laughing nervously or was genuinely laughing at the absurdity of the "threat". But the apology has been accepted nonetheless. She obviously feels the incident doesn't warrant Moyes being sacked. She hasn't gone and kicked up a fuss about being humiliated or soul destroyed. As I said, there's no need to even go there. To keep doing so is to attempt to turn this into something way way way more serious than it actually is

[Xabi Gerrard]

At the very least I think Moyes should go to a local women's refuge with some reporters to chat to some of the residents about their experiences and how their lives have been effected by violence. It might help him grow as a person and help him understand why so many people think jokes about beating women aren't funny. Plus if he's accompanied by press it might raise some awareness & money for a very serious issue.

[El Lobo]

At the very least I think Moyes should go to a local women's refuge with some reporters to chat to some of the residents about their experiences and how their lives have been effected by violence. It might help him grow as a person and help him understand why so many people think jokes about beating women aren't funny. Plus if he's accompanied by press it might raise some awareness & money for a very serious issue.

[Petadroli]

"even if you're a woman"

Wouldn't that be some sort of positive discrimination, because he acknowledges with that statement that nobody should hit women? She asked very disrespectful questions in my opinion and he told her in a very stupid way that he wasn't happy with the way the interview went.

Here's the thing though. Sparks has accepted the apology. We can muse and theorize about whether or not she was laughing nervously or was genuinely laughing at the absurdity of the "threat". But the apology has been accepted nonetheless. She obviously feels the incident doesn't warrant Moyes being sacked. She hasn't gone and kicked up a fuss about being humiliated or soul destroyed. As I said, there's no need to even go there. To keep doing so is to attempt to turn this into something way way way more serious than it actually is

Completely agree.

[-Daws-]

Do you belong to a group where you're likely to face discrimination? Cos it's really fucking easy to whine about people being politically correct when you don't have to worry about that kind of stuff for the most part.

I'm a white British male, living in London. I was born in Germany as my dad was in the forces and spent most of my school years being called a Nazi etc by both friend and foe. I really didn't give a shit and don't now.

As soon as you say 'group', that's where the problem begins for me. We are all equal, and dividing people into groups is part of the problem because it's highlighting differences and gives the impression we aren't equal. Divide and subdivided into different ethnic/cultural/gender groups does literally that, it divides people.

Being offended is subjective. What offends you may not offend me and vice-versa, it has everything to do without your moral conditioning, beliefs and your identity. You can't make rules about this in regards to what can or can't be said. I'm offended by Manchester United and boybands ffs but I'm not going to cry about the fact they exist and say things I don't agree with.

My girlfriend walked out on me once for a guy she worked with, a day later I was racially abused by a complete stranger. Guess which one hurt me more and which one I could report to the authorities? It's fucking ludicrous.

You can get offended, but nothing actually happens, it doesn't change anything whether you're offended or not (I don't mean you specifically just society in general). What's the point in making such a huge deal over something that has no tangible effect on the world?

[Xabi Gerrard]

For those of you saying that we should let it go because Sparks has accepted the apology. Giving you the (massive) benefit of the doubt that she is actually ok with it and not just accepting it because she doesn't want it to damage her career, once a comment like that makes it into the public domain are the rest of us who are uncomfortable with it supposed to just let it go? Even if it represents a really horrible fucked up attitude?

If Marcel Desailly said in 2004 that he accepted Ron Atkinson's apology for calling him "a fucking lazy thick n****r", should that really have just been the end of it? Or should those of us who abhor racism made it clear that it's not acceptable for public figures to talk in that way and there should be consequences?

Once it's out there in public, it's not just down to the victim to decide whether the aggressor should get away with it or not.

[Millie]

Some of the comments on this thread leave me in despair.

Violence against women has a huge tangible effect on the world.

As for "positive discrimination" - I've heard it all now.

[CraigDS]

Some of you should test out telling a female who comes into your work place that they're going to get a slap and see how it goes down.

[-Daws-]

Some of the comments on this thread leave me in despair.

Violence against women has a huge tangible effect on the world.

As for "positive discrimination" - I've heard it all now.

You make it sound like that's what I said? I said someone saying something deemed 'offensive' (and who gets to decide what is and isn't offensive btw as was my actual point in my post?) isn't tangible in the real world. Being offended (not assaulted).

I'm offended that you'd twist my words to insinuate I don't think violence towards woman is tangible or serious issue in the world, so now what? I get to be offended because you have clearly misconstrued and manipulated what I've said. What's the tangible effect of you and I both now having offended each other?  There is none. It doesn't fucking matter. That was my point.

As a side note, my mother and I were both abused by my step father when I was growing up until I was old enough to fight back, so I have every much as right to comment on the subject as you do even though I'm not female, but thanks for making me feel as though my opinion doesn't count just because of my gender, there's some equality for you.

[OOS]

Some of you should test out telling a female who comes into your work place that they're going to get a slap and see how it goes down.

Its just harmless banter innit....

Some questionable attitudes in this thread.

[DangerScouse]

Some of you should test out telling a female who comes into your work place that they're going to get a slap and see how it goes down.

I've said it before with a work colleague who I get on very well with, she knows the context and knows full well i'd never do anything of the sort.. She's been known to give me a dead arm in a joking sense. It's not an issue for either of us.

[CraigDS]

I've said it before with a work colleague who I get on very well with, she knows the context and knows full well i'd never do anything of the sort.. She's been known to give me a dead arm in a joking sense. It's not an issue for either of us.

This wasn't a work colleague though, it was a woman who works for an external company.

[BlackandWhitePaul]

Can we get back to talking about how crap the Mackems are and ohh what fun it is that Moyes is taking them down to where they belong     

[surfer. Fuck you generator.]

Can we get back to talking about how crap the Mackems are and ohh what fun it is that Moyes is taking them down to where they belong     

At least your lot limit yourselves to horses.

[Hazell]

Can we get back to talking about how crap the Mackems are and ohh what fun it is that Moyes is taking them down to where they belong     

Can you give them a slap as you pass by them this summer?

[Ziltoid]

Some of you should test out telling a female who comes into your work place that they're going to get a slap and see how it goes down.

If she hadn't have watched the film Secretary I would never have.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

At the very least I think Moyes should go to a local women's refuge with some reporters to chat to some of the residents about their experiences and how their lives have been effected by violence. It might help him grow as a person and help him understand why so many people think jokes about beating women aren't funny. Plus if he's accompanied by press it might raise some awareness & money for a very serious issue.

if you want to make this situation even worse you'd invite the cameras to a place like a women's refuge

[elsewhere]

I don't see them back in the PL soon once they are relegated. Them and Villa will spend at least a few years there.

[Millie]

You make it sound like that's what I said? I said someone saying something deemed 'offensive' (and who gets to decide what is and isn't offensive btw as was my actual point in my post?) isn't tangible in the real world. Being offended (not assaulted).

I'm offended that you'd twist my words to insinuate I don't think violence towards woman is tangible or serious issue in the world, so now what? I get to be offended because you have clearly misconstrued and manipulated what I've said. What's the tangible effect of you and I both now having offended each other?  There is none. It doesn't fucking matter. That was my point.

As a side note, my mother and I were both abused by my step father when I was growing up until I was old enough to fight back, so I have every much as right to comment on the subject as you do even though I'm not female, but thanks for making me feel as though my opinion doesn't count just because of my gender, there's some equality for you.

My apologies - it wasn't clear from your post, otherwise I would not have said anything.  Also I am so sorry that you had to suffer at the hands of an abusive step-father.

[BEAST]

"you better watch yourself next time".  Just as bad as the slap comment.

I wonder how some of you would react if it's your wife/sister/daughter that gets harassed at work by someone in a position of authority.  Guess it's all just banter and they should just laugh it off and move on.

Actually I take back saying that I'm surprised how so many on here are fine with misogyny.  I'm not surprised because the same kind of cavalier attitude towards racist comments in football has come up in the past on here.

[Jake]

I also like how the argument on the "he's an evil woman hater" side of the discussion paints those on the "it was a joke, she laughed it off and accepted his apologies" side as evil women haters.

For the record I take a person (man or woman) to court about once a week on average to argue to a judge that they need protection from an abusive partner or family member, so I don't take dv lightly, I personally don't see this particular event as an abusive issue.

[-Daws-]

My apologies - it wasn't clear from your post, otherwise I would not have said anything.  Also I am so sorry that you had to suffer at the hands of an abusive step-father.

Thank you and accepted.

It's just one of those things, unfortunately, like all abuse, there's far too much of it in the world.

[pyroparty]

Bye bye!!

[BlackandWhitePaul]

Can you give them a slap as you pass by them this summer?

I'm no slapper.

Just saying   

[rafathegaffa83]

No goals in six of their last seven games now. That trip to New York worked wonders too. Since returning: played 5, won 0, drawn 1, lost 4, scored 0, conceded 7

[Billy The Kid]

Some of you should test out telling a female who comes into your work place that they're going to get a slap and see how it goes down.

There's nothing to "test out" Craig. It would be a fucking stupid thing to do. I don't think anyone is denying that. At least I know I certainly didn't

[The North Bank]

Leicester fans tonight, singing to Moysie, "slapped in the morning, you're getting slapped in the morning" .

[BlackandWhitePaul]

Lost 2-0 to Leicester tonight and that makes it 2 months now without a win.


Ohh dear   

[Garlicbread]

Lost 2-0 to Leicester tonight and that makes it 2 months now without a win.


Ohh dear   

Sorry Paul but wouldn't mind them taking points during the weekend! 

[coolbyrne]

Talking about Sunderland, how shite is Januzaj? They are actually lucky that their bid was turned down by Utd and they were only able to loan him.

Also, what's next for Borini? I suppose he wouldn't want to be with them but also i don't see PL teams going for him this summer either.

Is Januzaj there? Holy fuck that completely went past me!

[OOS]

Talking about Sunderland, how shite is Januzaj? They are actually lucky that their bid was turned down by Utd and they were only able to loan him.

Also, what's next for Borini? I suppose he wouldn't want to be with them but also i don't see PL teams going for him this summer either.

Borini wouldnt look out of places in a league 2 side.