Author Topic: How to beat the parked bus  (Read 17568 times)

Offline wige

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Re: How to beat the parked bus
« Reply #160 on: March 8, 2017, 12:23:04 pm »
It seems like we get ropadoped every time against these small teams. Rather than being patient, keeping our shape, we start making acts of desperation, opening up too much. Patients and discipline are important parts of mental toughness, I'm sure our guys are putting everything in but when anxiety builds and we lose confidence, things start to fall apart.

There's other stuff we can do in summer but for me, the system isn't broken, it's our mentality.  If we play with more discipline, get our confidence back and don't try and force things I think we'll turn it around.

Agree with this entirely. Klopp mentioned after the Burnley game that we lost our patience, didn't take the time to play the extra pass. He said that after analysing it he saw loads of opportunites for clear cut chances, if we'd taken the time to play one more pass etc.

I think we then put this into action, at least up until the turn of the year. It was probably helped by us getting relatively early goals as well, I think in the Hull & Watford batterings we were one or two up by the 30th minute.. But there are other examples where we didn't score early, or conceded first and then showed patience and confidence to keep passing and probing without over committing and leaving ourselves too open -  the Swansea turn around and Derby games spring to mind.

I think too much is being made of our full backs. Yes, Clyne could be better going forwards, but his primary job, for me, should be to offer and maintain a high width - stretching the oppo's defence and giving more space for our dangerous players to play.

Offline Giono

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Re: How to beat the parked bus
« Reply #161 on: March 8, 2017, 12:58:16 pm »
The thing that stands out most is that we concede twice as many goals against the bottom 10 away from home than the top 10 away. To me it sounds a little bit like complacancy - we don't expect them to fight that much. It also says that we don't have a fear factor away from home. Bottom-of-the-table teams should be thinking 'oh shit, Liverpool are coming' but they don't.

Teams that play a low block don't fear our gegenpressing like teams that are coming to attack us do. They also don't fear our attack because we are not clinical. We don't have a clinical striker (that plays) and we are not clinical as a team. Our offence is dependent on movement, that the low block can nullify. They don't fear our shooting from distance nor our free kicks nor our corners.

The stats are a bit deceptive. Our defending starts high up the pitch from our pressing, and that is negated by the low block countering teams we face towards the bottom of the table...and Man U...

Also, if we are spending 60 minutes looking for the first goal we start to take chances positionly and our wingbacks start putting in lower and lower chance blind balls into the middle, starting counters when we are the most vulnerable. If we are down 1-0 it is even worse and makes getting the 2nd against us easier.

 
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Offline Jay012345

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Re: How to beat the parked bus
« Reply #162 on: March 8, 2017, 03:01:08 pm »
3-5-2, 3-5-1-1, counter breaks with extra man in the centre who can fall into holding mid if needed, or support wingbacks when defending.
Wing-backs to get down the sides including Moreno.
Play at least one striker to occupy opposition defensive.
Midfield runners to run beyond the striker.

Offline LallanaInPyjamas

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Re: How to beat the parked bus
« Reply #163 on: March 8, 2017, 03:18:13 pm »
3-5-2, 3-5-1-1, counter breaks with extra man in the centre who can fall into holding mid if needed, or support wingbacks when defending.
Wing-backs to get down the sides including Moreno.
Play at least one striker to occupy opposition defensive.
Midfield runners to run beyond the striker.

I hate 3-5-2. Think it relies massively on having two excellent strikers a la Suarez and Sturridge. Personally think 3-4-3 is generally a far more effective system as it allows you to defend more easily with nine men rather than eight, and the wide attackers can counter quickly in the way Hazard and Pedro have done to devastating effect for Chelsea.

I don't know if it'd work for us though. Too many question marks over some of our players. Henderson, Lallana and Wijnaldum all look best in a three and I can't imagine impressing as much as part of a double pivot (funnily enough Can would probably perform better). We're also struggling enough at centre half as it is without adding another one into the starting line-up! And then we've got people in here arguing that our full-backs aren't effective enough going forward. Surely that increases tenfold as wing-backs? You can't play Mané there, it'd be a waste of his runs in behind the striker.

Offline NaivetyinBlack

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Re: How to beat the parked bus
« Reply #164 on: March 8, 2017, 04:22:53 pm »
Along with the demand for Moreno as a LB, I would also think Klopp should do a Newcastle and release the shackles on Gini. I firmly believe he is restricting himself to the betterment and stability of the midfield and if he's told to do so, he'll easily transform into the vicious goalscoring midfielder he can be.

But a risk with that is we leave the midfield unprotected, so we should try it only with teams who give us the space in front of our forwards.

Offline Johns_Barn

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Re: How to beat the parked bus
« Reply #165 on: March 8, 2017, 05:30:51 pm »
I know it's all water under the bridge but I remember thinking we should have done exactly that against Chelsea in 2014. It was never going to happen after the way we'd played all season, but it would have been interesting to see Maureen's response if we'd played with a deep formation, allowing them to have the ball. The world and his wife knew they weren't crossing the half way line unless a real opportunity presented itself. A point would have been a great result in hindsight.
I daid exactly this then. And i still ask yhe same question now. At kick off, just hoof it into their half and see what happens.

Offline Giono

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Re: How to beat the parked bus
« Reply #166 on: March 8, 2017, 06:00:18 pm »
Along with the demand for Moreno as a LB, I would also think Klopp should do a Newcastle and release the shackles on Gini. I firmly believe he is restricting himself to the betterment and stability of the midfield and if he's told to do so, he'll easily transform into the vicious goalscoring midfielder he can be.

But a risk with that is we leave the midfield unprotected, so we should try it only with teams who give us the space in front of our forwards.

And the left wing unprotected with Coutinho cutting into the middle and Milner up field.   
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Offline rscanderlech

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Re: How to beat the parked bus
« Reply #167 on: March 8, 2017, 06:05:35 pm »
Agree with this entirely. Klopp mentioned after the Burnley game that we lost our patience, didn't take the time to play the extra pass. He said that after analysing it he saw loads of opportunites for clear cut chances, if we'd taken the time to play one more pass etc.

I think we then put this into action, at least up until the turn of the year. It was probably helped by us getting relatively early goals as well, I think in the Hull & Watford batterings we were one or two up by the 30th minute.. But there are other examples where we didn't score early, or conceded first and then showed patience and confidence to keep passing and probing without over committing and leaving ourselves too open -  the Swansea turn around and Derby games spring to mind.

I think too much is being made of our full backs. Yes, Clyne could be better going forwards, but his primary job, for me, should be to offer and maintain a high width - stretching the oppo's defence and giving more space for our dangerous players to play.
But I think that this has a lot to do with personnel as well. You can describe most of our team as being impatient and making poor choices under pressure in those tight games. Some serious quality in midfield and a top striker would reduce that problem dramatically.

Other important things:
- having effective wing backs to help stretch play.