Topic: FSG (*)

[Graham Smith]

Not really. I've pointed out plenty of faults they've done and plenty of areas I'd personally improve.

However they've been pretty consistent on the ARE expansion, and the placement of "will" in a quote really doesn't change that.

The bits at the back of the Kop are not 'expansion' - they are a development to take account of increased disabled bays - Anfield may have less capacity/seats at the start of 2017/18 than this season.

[CraigDS]

The bits at the back of the Kop are not 'expansion' - they are a development to take account of increased disabled bays - Anfield may have less capacity/seats at the start of 2017/18 than this season.

It's expansion beyond the current area for viewing, regardless of the increased % now taken up by disabled seating.

[Graham Smith]

This is a thread about FSG isn't it? the positives and the negatives?

Why not assume they are building it and congratulate them, then if they don't slaughter them?

Because you don't want to do that.

It's boring and all it does is allows people to critise the owners without any real evidence, as usual.

Because the facts are that I have been in meetings years ago where they said they would not do the ARE until the MS was done. They wanted to gauge demand and 'how it would be done' - this is with a ST Waiting List of 20,000 odd and massive off waiting list demand.

They said this year that they were looking at other options (an increased stand) but there can be absolutely no doubt at all that the demand could not be a part of their concern, there is no possible argument that demand for an extra 9000 seats is not there for each game. Fact.

So, it assumes that the work now is on modelling a ROI plan - the higher capacity is an obvious way of increasing that as there is not the exponential cost of building the extra capacity. What it does do is establish a challenge outside the ground for traffic and movement management and the costs of that.

So, the short answer is that there are more current reasons to say it isn't happening soon or at all than reasons to say it is about to happen soon or at all.

That can change depending upon an update we will get at the end of May.

[jambutty]

Many successful business owners have prior unsuccessful business ventures. 

Sometimes your first effort does well, sometime you fail a couple of times and learn what not to do.

I know that myself and a few of the Pro FSG Brigade have run profitable businesses and developed broader perspectives.

Are any of you Anti-FSG Brigade business owners?  (That actually employ people).

[Graham Smith]

It's expansion beyond the current area for viewing, regardless of the increased % now taken up by disabled seating.

So, now the definition of 'expansion' is work that results in a lower capacity at Anfield?

I have been in two meetings where I was told by the Club that the loss of seats overall would not be compensated for by the changes being made in the ground this Summer.

What have you been told?

[ollick]

The bits at the back of the Kop are not 'expansion' - they are a development to take account of increased disabled bays - Anfield may have less capacity/seats at the start of 2017/18 than this season.

The Kop is being expanded. There will be more people sitting on the Kop next season than this season.

The capacity of Anfield may be lower due to the increase in disabled seating (I believe it's over 100 new places) however the club is also looking to offset this in the Centenary Stand by adding an addition seat on the aisle of each row.

[ollick]

So, now the definition of 'expansion' is work that results in a lower capacity at Anfield?

I have been in two meetings where I was told by the Club that the loss of seats overall would not be compensated for by the changes being made in the ground this Summer.

What have you been told?

So why are they doing the Kop his summer then? Is it to expand the Kop or to offset the seating lost?

[Graham Smith]

So why are they doing the Kop his summer then? Is it to expand the Kop or to offset the seating lost?

We (and other Clubs) have been in breach of disability legislation for a couple of years, if not longer.

The authorities have had enough and told everyone to sort it out, hence the speed needed to put in lifts and building works (there are about 50 individual building tasks large and small) this Summer.

To somehow characterise statutory regulation compliance as a pat on the back for anyone is mad (but good on them for doing it eventually) and to go further and somehow make a virtue out of there being more seats in the Kop next season (which I know is not guaranteed) but the ground will have less seats overall is just beyond parody.

And my ire here is for the apologists, not the Club or owners on this issue. The Club has been behind on this (as have other Clubs for years) - the best anyone gets out of this is a 'thank you for finally sorting'.

[CraigDS]

So, now the definition of 'expansion' is work that results in a lower capacity at Anfield?

I have been in two meetings where I was told by the Club that the loss of seats overall would not be compensated for by the changes being made in the ground this Summer.

What have you been told?

The size of Anfield is being expanded. The amount of seating space viewing the pitch will be more next year than this year.

The fact the club is having to change some standard seating to disabled seating, due to new legislation,  does not change this fact.

[Graham Smith]

The size of Anfield is being expanded. The amount of seating space viewing the pitch will be more next year than this year.

The fact the club is having to change some standard seating to disabled seating, due to new legislation,  does not change this fact.

No, there will be less able bodied seats, more disabled/carer seats but overall a reduced capacity at Anfield.

I've been told twice - what is your source for there being an increased capacity next season overall when the scores of disabled bays being created mean seats being lost and the work being done to replace those lost seats means less able bodied seats overall?

I do know they will be doing all they can to make it neutral, but for now that is the latest the SC have been told.

EDIT: the numbers being mentioned (and it is accepted these would not be totally final) was that about 1000 able bodied seats would go in the ground (this was an upwards estimate from 500 in January) but there would be about an extra 43 disabled bays needing to be created.

[mickeydocs]

Are any of you pro-FSG brigade on the payroll of FSG?

[Chakan]

Are any of you pro-FSG brigade on the payroll of FSG?

We all are, we just can't release our salaries to Dave though.

[mickeydocs]

We all are, we just can't release our salaries to Dave though.

Where can I sign up lol

[CraigDS]

Are any of you pro-FSG brigade on the payroll of FSG?

My money is on the Eel fella. Slippery one is that one.

[CraigDS]

No, there will be less able bodied seats, more disabled/carer seats but overall a reduced capacity at Anfield.

I've been told twice - what is your source for there being an increased capacity next season overall when the scores of disabled bays being created mean seats being lost and the work being done to replace those lost seats means less able bodied seats overall?

I do know they will be doing all they can to make it neutral, but for now that is the latest the SC have been told.

EDIT: the numbers being mentioned (and it is accepted these would not be totally final) was that about 1000 able bodied seats would go in the ground (this was an upwards estimate from 500 in January) but there would be about an extra 43 disabled bays needing to be created.

I'm not on about capacity. I'm on about Anfield being expanded to provide more space to view the game.

The fact that we are increasing disabled seating which take up more room so capacity drops does not counter the fact there will be more space within Anfield next season

[Graham Smith]

I'm not on about capacity. I'm on about Anfield being expanded to provide more space to view the game.

The fact that we are increasing disabled seating which take up more room so capacity drops does not counter the fact there will be more space within Anfield next season

*Speechless*

There will be less people in Anfield watching the game next season.

And unless they have made it into a Tardis it will be the same size ground.

I'll leave this nonsense by an anonymous apologist there for others to judge.

[El Lobo]

My money is on the Eel fella. Slippery one is that one.

Slanderous.

[PeterTheRed ...]

*Speechless*

There will be less people in Anfield watching the game next season.

And unless they have made it into a Tardis it will be the same size ground.

I'll leave this nonsense by an anonymous apologist there for others to judge.

True, but there will be people watching the game who were unable to watch it so far.

[CraigDS]

*Speechless*

There will be less people in Anfield watching the game next season.

And unless they have made it into a Tardis it will be the same size ground.

I'll leave this nonsense by an anonymous apologist there for others to judge.

Are you unable or just unwilling to comprehend simple English?

Anfield, next season, will have a larger amount of viewing space, in sqm, than now. It will be larger.

Now I agree capacity will be less, due to new legislation meaning smaller able bodied seats being changed to larger disabled bodied seats. However that doesn't change the fact Anfield will be larger.

[Eeyore]

The size of Anfield is being expanded. The amount of seating space viewing the pitch will be more next year than this year.

The fact the club is having to change some standard seating to disabled seating, due to new legislation,  does not change this fact.

Chemical Craig at his finest 

What next mate we actually outperformed Sevilla in the Europa League final. We finished as runners up whereas they finished next to last.

[CraigDS]

Chemical Craig at his finest 

I'd appreciate you not linking me to a mass murderer. Not for the first time either.

It's a pretty shitty thing to do.

What next mate we actually outperformed Sevilla in the Europa League final. We finished as runners up whereas they finished next to last.

Bizarre comment.

Will Anfield be larger next season?

[ollick]

We (and other Clubs) have been in breach of disability legislation for a couple of years, if not longer.

The authorities have had enough and told everyone to sort it out, hence the speed needed to put in lifts and building works (there are about 50 individual building tasks large and small) this Summer.

To somehow characterise statutory regulation compliance as a pat on the back for anyone is mad (but good on them for doing it eventually) and to go further and somehow make a virtue out of there being more seats in the Kop next season (which I know is not guaranteed) but the ground will have less seats overall is just beyond parody.

And my ire here is for the apologists, not the Club or owners on this issue. The Club has been behind on this (as have other Clubs for years) - the best anyone gets out of this is a 'thank you for finally sorting'.

Is the Kop being expanded then? Seeing as you didn't answer the first time, thought I'd try again. Or are you anti-FSG people unable to answer questions?

[NaivetyinBlack]

Wait, so because of an increase in disabled seating, we won't have an increase in overall seating. But Anfield is still being expanded.

Graham, are you in any way, considering this expansion as a negative ?

[Day1983]

He said they'll have to see, which is exactly what has been the case all along...once the Main is built does demand, potential income, cost, etc. make sense for it to happen.

No he said ticket prices(alluding to the walkout) may stop it, they are words from his mouth.
As for demand, I've been on the season ticket waiting list since 2003! I'm still around 4500 on the list and an expanded ARE might still not see me get one. Also I take it you weren't at the Madrid charity match the other week. It was sad to see so many kids there who very rarely get to see the first team live. The demand is not an issue at all.
Income and cost...well that's on the owners wether they want to do it for the fans or themselves.

[Eeyore]

I'd appreciate you not linking me to a mass murderer. Not for the first time either.

It's a pretty shitty thing to do.

Bizarre comment.

Will Anfield be larger next season?

Capacity, capacity, capacity.

We have a huge waiting list yet you are somehow celebrating less people being able to watch us.

[Day1983]

Why do you hate disabled people ?

Their capacity is being increased at Anfield.

No need for that like.

[Samie]

It's a good thing we're expanding the number of disabled seats at Anfield dickheads  and it should be more. Never a negative.

[NaivetyinBlack]

No need for that like.

It was a throwaway, tongue in cheek comment. No need to take it seriously 

[Chakan]

Capacity, capacity, capacity.

We have a huge waiting list yet you are somehow celebrating less people being able to watch us.

And yet you're viewing increasing disabled access as a negative

[Graham Smith]

Is the Kop being expanded then? Seeing as you didn't answer the first time, thought I'd try again. Or are you anti-FSG people unable to answer questions?

Well based upon spatial awareness arguments now being put you will have to define 'expanded'.

Will the Kop footprint be bigger? No.

Will there be more people in the Kop watching the game? Probably not.

Will some space not currently considered floor space become floor space? Maybe, but I'm unable to really say if this is what is meant.

Will the number of actual seats for able bodied people in the Kop be more next season? No.

Will the number of seats for disabled people in the Kop be more? Yes.

Will the area occupied by seats both able bodied and disabled be any greater? No, as the overall loss of able bodied seats will go down and will not be compensated for by the disabled provision.

And if we can remember why I got involved in this issue today - someone said "Anfield is expanding next season'. I was just pointing out it is not, and not as any criticism of FSG as they are the only owners who have eventually made full statutory provision for disabled supporters.

[El Lobo]

Chemical Craig at his finest 

What next mate we actually outperformed Sevilla in the Europa League final. We finished as runners up whereas they finished next to last.

Tone down the personal insults Al, really no need.

[Graham Smith]

Wait, so because of an increase in disabled seating, we won't have an increase in overall seating. But Anfield is still being expanded.

Graham, are you in any way, considering this expansion as a negative ?

No, as mentioned previously, now twice I got involved because it was said that Anfield is expanding. It isn't on any sane definition.

But again as mentioned - the Club are finally catching up with the law. Good, positive move by the owners.

[Frizzo]

Christ this is tedious.

Anfield is being expanded, but due to it simultaneously falling in line with disabled access regulations it won't have a larger overall capacity.

Whether or not you look at this positively or negatively probably says more about you than what's actually happening.

Still, we need things to bitch at each other about I suppose.

[Day1983]

It was a throwaway, tongue in cheek comment. No need to take it seriously 

Ok mate fair enough.

[NaivetyinBlack]

No, as mentioned previously, now twice I got involved because it was said that Anfield is expanding. It isn't on any sane definition.

But again as mentioned - the Club are finally catching up with the law. Good, positive move by the owners.

A spatial expansion is still investment in the stadium, Graham. You and I both agree the general capacity has to be increased as well. But doesn't this show a continuous interest in infrastructure investment ?

[Eeyore]

Tone down the personal insults Al, really no need.

What personal insult.

[Eeyore]

And yet you're viewing increasing disabled access as a negative

Really.

[Chakan]

Really.

Aren't you? If not then what the hell are you going after Craig for it?

[Graham Smith]

A spatial expansion is still investment in the stadium, Graham. You and I both agree the general capacity has to be increased as well. But doesn't this show a continuous interest in infrastructure investment ?

As Clouseau said "It's the luuurrr"

[Eeyore]

A spatial expansion is still investment in the stadium, Graham. You and I both agree the general capacity has to be increased as well. But doesn't this show a continuous interest in infrastructure investment ?

Stadiums are measured In capacity not per sqm.