Topic: Simon Mignolet

[BabuYagu]

My reaction to that, as someone who was a decent keeper, would have been to go for the ball when it was headed into our box and I think Karius would have chosen to do the same. It was a big looping header, it was in the air for about 4 seconds, my reaction would have been to sprint out and clear that with a punch, its too inviting to ignore, its horrible for the defenders to deal with and you know you are going to get to it. If you wait for it to land, then its more risky and if there is a player running on to it, then you would at least move towards him, to try and shrink his target. Getting smashed in the face by the ball is part and parcel of it, I've lost a fair bit of blood from time to time from taking it full in the face.

Cheers for that mate.

As for this, my mate (school friends brother) was a goalkeeper and made his debut aged 17 for Glentoran, conceded 6, and then was binned off after that and dropped down the leagues. Harsh! Another played for Northern Ireland in the milk cup level and his nose had been broken more times than I can count. Probably would have been the first person with cauliflower nose if he hadn't quit playing. Was a good player, got accepted in a trial with Leeds, but just didn't enjoy it. Became a game designer instead. One of his last games he intentionally scored an own goal after his manager blamed him for not coming for a cross - then ran over and said "that one you can fucking blame me on".

I've come to the conclusion though that all goalkeepers are mad bastards who don't handle criticism very well. They also all think they can play in midfield.

[Suareznumber7]

My reaction to that, as someone who was a decent keeper, would have been to go for the ball when it was headed into our box and I think Karius would have chosen to do the same. It was a big looping header, it was in the air for about 4 seconds, my reaction would have been to sprint out and clear that with a punch, its too inviting to ignore, its horrible for the defenders to deal with and you know you are going to get to it. If you wait for it to land, then its more risky and if there is a player running on to it, then you would at least move towards him, to try and shrink his target. Getting smashed in the face by the ball is part and parcel of it, I've lost a fair bit of blood from time to time from taking it full in the face.

I don't quite remember where he was but was Migs in a position to go for the ball when it was in the air?  I thought that he was on his goal line while the ball was towards the top of the box.  If I am right, is it the right decision to go for the ball?  Having only played keeper once (and pretty poorly I might add) I have no idea what the right decision is on that one. 

[classycarra]

My reaction to that, as someone who was a decent keeper, would have been to go for the ball when it was headed into our box and I think Karius would have chosen to do the same. It was a big looping header, it was in the air for about 4 seconds, my reaction would have been to sprint out and clear that with a punch, its too inviting to ignore, its horrible for the defenders to deal with and you know you are going to get to it. If you wait for it to land, then its more risky and if there is a player running on to it, then you would at least move towards him, to try and shrink his target. Getting smashed in the face by the ball is part and parcel of it, I've lost a fair bit of blood from time to time from taking it full in the face.

I reckon you'd have ended up in no mans land if you came out for that.

https://streamable.com/3nztw

Have a look at Robertson running back, for a good gauge of the distance that Mignolet could have covered in the time the ball was in the air. I doubt he'd have made it.

And then it'd have been easier for Arfield to score with a low shot like he did, if Mignolet was closer to him in no mans land, unless we got lucky and he hit it directly at Mignolet.

There are genuinely five players who could have/should have done better to avoid that going in, who I'd class as more responsible than Mignolet. But then maybe some others would say two or three, and maybe others would say it's all Mignolet's fault

[BabuYagu]

I reckon you'd have ended up in no mans land if you came out for that.

https://streamable.com/3nztw

Have a look at Robertson running back, for a good gauge of the distance that Mignolet could have covered in the time the ball was in the air. I doubt he'd have made it.

And then it'd have been easier for Arfield to score with a low shot like he did, if Mignolet was closer to him in no mans land, unless we got lucky and he hit it directly at Mignolet.

There are genuinely five players who could have/should have done better to avoid that going in, who I'd class as more responsible than Mignolet. But then maybe some others would say two or three, and maybe others would say it's all Mignolet's fault

Definitely not Migs fault. The mistakes are certainly there on others.

My question was more a stylistic one - what would be better in that situation. I think moving right to left gives the forward the easy task of hitting it in the direction you are coming from. You cannot dive back that way because of momentum. I knew where the shot was going before Arfield even hit it and knew it was a goal if it was on target. Which makes me question then if moving out towards Arfield would increase the odds a little in your favour as Karius did in some of the clips I sent you.

I don't think you can coach that really - it's an instinctive thing for the keeper. Do I set myself to deal with a shot I know is coming. Do I get out there and try to block that shot so he has less to aim it? 

[hide5seek]

Playing Simon all season is risky mainly because he get's complacent and then starts to make errors. There is no doubt having competition helped him to up his game last season, every player needs that. The only way you can keep them competitive for the season. That is why giving Loris a chance in the CL is a good idea, he needs the experience and I think his distribution is better as well, he gets the team moving quicker.

Which shows he's not good enough.

[stevensr123]

I assume your statements of absolute certainty are based on extensive study and management experience?

I mean, why should we accept you are right on this subject and that Klopp and his coaching staff - people who are likely to have said knowledge and experience - are wrong. Support your claim with something so you can convince me you are right.

jesus your a bit tedious as times mate. It's a fan forum where people display opinions. I don't expect everyone to write an essay for every post. I like your posts mate and I have learned a lot from then.

But you respond to others with such arrogance and contempt.

All I was trying to say is the vast vast majority of teams (bar a few) like to keep the back line the same, it gives a solid grounding, experience with playing with each other etc

I understand rotation to a certain extent I.e ferguson rotated degea at first because he was a very young keeper and wanted to introduce him slowly into the set up.

But both migs and karius have a lot of experience comparitevly.

We are rotating the entire back 5 from week to week, how are any of the players meant to build on a good grounding? And to me it shows each week.

I don't see why I have to provide stats to show what is obvious to pretty much everyone it seems on this thread.

If I said Paul konshesky was shite, im not gonna provide an essay showing why when it's plain obvious with a good pair of eyes.

And for your information I didn't portray my post as a fact. Stop saying that to people. I portrayed my post as an opinion which I'm entitled to have. Cheers

[Trendisnotdestiny]

jesus your a bit tedious as times mate. It's a fan forum where people display opinions. I don't expect everyone to write an essay for every post. I like your posts mate and I have learned a lot from then.

But you respond to others with such arrogance and contempt.

All I was trying to say is the vast vast majority of teams (bar a few) like to keep the back line the same, it gives a solid grounding, experience with playing with each other etc

I understand rotation to a certain extent I.e ferguson rotated degea at first because he was a very young keeper and wanted to introduce him slowly into the set up.

But both migs and karius have a lot of experience comparitevly.

We are rotating the entire back 5 from week to week, how are any of the players meant to build on a good grounding? And to me it shows each week.

I don't see why I have to provide stats to show what is obvious to pretty much everyone it seems on this thread.

If I said Paul konshesky was shite, im not gonna provide an essay showing why when it's plain obvious with a good pair of eyes.

And for your information I didn't portray my post as a fact. Stop saying that to people. I portrayed my post as an opinion which I'm entitled to have. Cheers

Wanting people to back up their posts (often spoken loudly with certainty) is an admirable quality, mate. 

It elides neither arrogance nor contempt. 

However, it does place additional strains for those who want to deposit their own mental residue (often justified and interesting to read at times) in the same bin as thoughtful, well considered and measured responses.    One corrodes the other, diminishes it. 

Some responses here (over and over again) require someone to sort out credibility.  This is why we have mods, writers and a whole host experienced posters to call out the weaknesses of ALL our arguments.  The only thing better than getting a topic correct, learning taking place is when this happens --- and the reds win.

However, what your post fails to reveal is the number of times (thousands) one is confronted by someone who obviously does not know the first thing about the topic nor do they know how to solve the issue at question for the rest reading.  Instead, it becomes a venue for predictions or "I told you so" and "I got there first before anyone" kind of arms race for venting. 

There is no honor for slagging off Mignolet (first, or for the longest time --- sorry Billy Joel, or penalty of who supported him until he signs with a new team.  It does not matter.   But, if we are going to spend time reading, writing, and communicating ---- just like the players, we should give a better effort than the lowest common denominator. 

This is why I love Babu's work.  Its sparks conversation, has significant researched points, and challenges readers to think about issues they had not before ---- this should not be scary, but enjoyable.  Now, there will be some not influenced by numbers, but I think our friend Babu here is equally effective in making his points whether words or numbers.

Lastly, no one is asking you to post.  No one is asking you post stats.  What they are asking for is that this forum be a place of learning --- so you should find your own way to support your opinion. 

I find humor to effective - if someone tells you (you do not know your ass from a hole in the ground)  ---
I am sure you can find a nice reply that is credible!

[rkgriffin]

Fully agree with this but 2 of them could be but our number 1 has proved he can't be. Hence why for me we should give more time to the other 2.

This. Pick Karius or Ward and let them learn their lessons this year. I know you don't want to damage a young goalie's confidence but if they are to be world class that will not happen. Look at how United did with De Gea. He was timid and shit at first and United let him sort it out. Of course he had senior center backs in front of him to guide him but fuck it.

Pick one and stick to it. We aren't winning the league this year. Let everyone learn and go balls out for the title next year. Of course I am not saying we give up this year but Migs is nit the future.

[Groundskeeper Willie]

I don't quite remember where he was but was Migs in a position to go for the ball when it was in the air?  I thought that he was on his goal line while the ball was towards the top of the box.  If I am right, is it the right decision to go for the ball?  Having only played keeper once (and pretty poorly I might add) I have no idea what the right decision is on that one. 

He wasn't really. And I have to disagree with Rob here. As someone who used to be a decent keeper , that ball in to Matip isn't the goalkeeper's to go for. It's to far out near the line of the penalty area. I don't think any keeper in the world comes for that ball.

The right decision, IMO, is to keep his position, which he did.

[penga]

Wanting people to back up their posts (often spoken loudly with certainty) is an admirable quality, mate. 

It elides neither arrogance nor contempt. 

However, it does place additional strains for those who want to deposit their own mental residue (often justified and interesting to read at times) in the same bin as thoughtful, well considered and measured responses.    One corrodes the other, diminishes it. 

Some responses here (over and over again) require someone to sort out credibility.  This is why we have mods, writers and a whole host experienced posters to call out the weaknesses of ALL our arguments.  The only thing better than getting a topic correct, learning taking place is when this happens --- and the reds win.

However, what your post fails to reveal is the number of times (thousands) one is confronted by someone who obviously does not know the first thing about the topic nor do they know how to solve the issue at question for the rest reading.  Instead, it becomes a venue for predictions or "I told you so" and "I got there first before anyone" kind of arms race for venting. 

There is no honor for slagging off Mignolet (first, or for the longest time --- sorry Billy Joel, or penalty of who supported him until he signs with a new team.  It does not matter.   But, if we are going to spend time reading, writing, and communicating ---- just like the players, we should give a better effort than the lowest common denominator. 

This is why I love Babu's work.  Its sparks conversation, has significant researched points, and challenges readers to think about issues they had not before ---- this should not be scary, but enjoyable.  Now, there will be some not influenced by numbers, but I think our friend Babu here is equally effective in making his points whether words or numbers.

Lastly, no one is asking you to post.  No one is asking you post stats.  What they are asking for is that this forum be a place of learning --- so you should find your own way to support your opinion. 

I find humor to effective - if someone tells you (you do not know your ass from a hole in the ground)  ---
I am sure you can find a nice reply that is credible!

It's all well and good until someone finally challenges him on a couple of things, calling out weaknesses in his argument whilst providing actual evidence (viewed/interpreted differently), then gets annoyed by apparent "attacks on his credibility" and blocks/ignores you . Meanwhile no problem continuing to highlight other's perceived biases and lack of credibility and responding to posters that repeatedly provide little evidence on their opinions...the brick wall type that also attack his credibility but in a less reasoned way.

Aside from that I agree he has brought the level of conversation in tactical knowledge of LFC on this forum up to a better level almost single handedly, putting in a far greater deal of effort to explain and post things knowledgeably and with visuals than what most would including myself, as well as responding to an exceeding amount of mindless drivel so fair play to that.

[The North Bank]

The only time I'd want my keeper to come for a ball through players is in the 6 yard box,if he goes further than that and has to go through players to get the ball, then it's an accident waiting to happen . Centre backs are there for a reason. If you can't trust them, replace them, not ask the keeper to take more risks.

[BabuYagu]

jesus your a bit tedious as times mate. It's a fan forum where people display opinions. I don't expect everyone to write an essay for every post. I like your posts mate and I have learned a lot from then.

But you respond to others with such arrogance and contempt.

All I was trying to say is the vast vast majority of teams (bar a few) like to keep the back line the same, it gives a solid grounding, experience with playing with each other etc

I understand rotation to a certain extent I.e ferguson rotated degea at first because he was a very young keeper and wanted to introduce him slowly into the set up.

But both migs and karius have a lot of experience comparitevly.

We are rotating the entire back 5 from week to week, how are any of the players meant to build on a good grounding? And to me it shows each week.

I don't see why I have to provide stats to show what is obvious to pretty much everyone it seems on this thread.

If I said Paul konshesky was shite, im not gonna provide an essay showing why when it's plain obvious with a good pair of eyes.

And for your information I didn't portray my post as a fact. Stop saying that to people. I portrayed my post as an opinion which I'm entitled to have. Cheers

I pointed out before, a lot of what Klopp is doing here, and needs to do to succeed in this league, is groundbreaking. No team has won the league here gegenpressing. The way he is managing the club, the staff he is bringing in, the roles of Mona & Ljinders, it's all about innovation. The things you can change to give yourself a competitive edge. To be ahead of the curve instead of following because everyone else must be right. It's how change occurs in football. Valeriy Lobanovskyi is a good example of this and almost certainly a role model for Jurgen Klopp and his approach to the game. If the name isn't familiar, look him up and have a read. He's probably the man most similar to our own Jurgen in how he sees the game perhaps.

Also accepted truths aren't actually true. They are often just things that have gone uncontested that people believe due to repetition. It's called the illusion of truth effect. Your own stance on this is the perfect example. You are saying with absolute conviction that Jurgen Klopp and his coaching staff are wrong to rotate goalkeepers. They have explained the thought process behind doing so. Yet when pushed, the main crux of your argument is that it's the popular choice. Most people are doing this. Most agree it is right. Therefore Klopp is wrong. Not that you have investigated the matter in depth to develop an understanding of the complexity of the subject matter to form your own opinion either way - just that on the basis of which group of voices are louder - it seems Klopp is wrong. Thus you add your own voice to the mix.

But in essence we are criticising the decisions of the manager and, if we are going down that path, we should at least be fair to him and understand his decisions before throwing our hat into the ring. Contest the logical explanation he and goalkeeping coaches put forward. Not just jump on the illusion of truth bangwagon which is often given the first push by the media in the form of Gary Neville or someone of his ilk.

Oh and nice Paul Konchesky strawman you built there


And yes, you are entitled. Just as I am within my rights to challenge that opinion. Which you can then either defend or make ad hominem attacks on the person challenging it.

[classycarra]

All I was trying to say is the vast vast majority of teams (bar a few) like to keep the back line the same, it gives a solid grounding, experience with playing with each other etc

I understand rotation to a certain extent I.e ferguson rotated degea at first because he was a very young keeper and wanted to introduce him slowly into the set up.

But both migs and karius have a lot of experience comparitevly.

We are rotating the entire back 5 from week to week, how are any of the players meant to build on a good grounding? And to me it shows each week.

I don't see why I have to provide stats to show what is obvious to pretty much everyone it seems on this thread.

To be pedantic, it's not entirely fair to say that you can understand De Gea being rotated but not Karius - they're about the same ages at these points, and had similar experience with their former clubs.

Karius had played maybe 10 or 20 more games, but with respect to Mainz, De Gea was playing games at a much higher level with higher stakes. So if anything it should be less understandable rotating De Gea, than Karius I'd say. Especially if you factor in how average De Gea's partner in rotation (Lindergaard) was, compared with Mignolet who is a far superior keeper to have in the rotation.

Not saying I disagree with our back 5 looking unfamiliar with each other at the moment

[nico 8]

He wasn't really. And I have to disagree with Rob here. As someone who used to be a decent keeper , that ball in to Matip isn't the goalkeeper's to go for. It's to far out near the line of the penalty area. I don't think any keeper in the world comes for that ball.

The right decision, IMO, is to keep his position, which he did.

Agree with this. Imagine if he came rushing out only for Matip to backheader the ball for an easy collect and the ball trickles into the net. The goal came from Matip's failure to deal with the situation. Sure there are other errors that add to it but this one is on Matip who ought to have done better. Lesson to be learnt from TAA'S attempt to Klavan having to have swept behind him rather than attack the same ball.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

The ball is barely in the area ffs    Absolutely no chance could Mignolet come for that. The blame is on TAA and Matip for losing their aerial battles and Klavan for inexplicably leaving his defensive zone.

[Purple Red]

I pointed out before, a lot of what Klopp is doing here, and needs to do to succeed in this league, is groundbreaking. No team has won the league here gegenpressing. The way he is managing the club, the staff he is bringing in, the roles of Mona & Ljinders, it's all about innovation. The things you can change to give yourself a competitive edge. To be ahead of the curve instead of following because everyone else must be right. It's how change occurs in football. Valeriy Lobanovskyi is a good example of this and almost certainly a role model for Jurgen Klopp and his approach to the game. If the name isn't familiar, look him up and have a read. He's probably the man most similar to our own Jurgen in how he sees the game perhaps.

Also accepted truths aren't actually true. They are often just things that have gone uncontested that people believe due to repetition. It's called the illusion of truth effect. Your own stance on this is the perfect example. You are saying with absolute conviction that Jurgen Klopp and his coaching staff are wrong to rotate goalkeepers. They have explained the thought process behind doing so. Yet when pushed, the main crux of your argument is that it's the popular choice. Most people are doing this. Most agree it is right. Therefore Klopp is wrong. Not that you have investigated the matter in depth to develop an understanding of the complexity of the subject matter to form your own opinion either way - just that on the basis of which group of voices are louder - it seems Klopp is wrong. Thus you add your own voice to the mix.

But in essence we are criticising the decisions of the manager and, if we are going down that path, we should at least be fair to him and understand his decisions before throwing our hat into the ring. Contest the logical explanation he and goalkeeping coaches put forward. Not just jump on the illusion of truth bangwagon which is often given the first push by the media in the form of Gary Neville or someone of his ilk.

I like what you're saying about Klopp being groundbreaking to a certain extent. I love gegenpressing when it's in evidence though it can be frustrating when we don't make the most of the extra chances it's supposed to created like on Saturday. On those occasions it can feel like the days under Rodgers when we played a lot of nice football to look at that lacked cutting edge. Thankfully the evidence is there that we score a lot more under Klopp and have a better general shape so yeah, there have been more innovations and improvements in that area. The training methods are innovative and our dynamic wing play is amongst the best in the league.

I do take issue with what you say about accepted truths not actually being truths though. Popular choice often has a lot of evidence behind it. The majority of the teams that have won the Premier League, for example, have done so with a first choice keeper who has played basically every game of the season. David Seaman for Arsenal, Peter Schmeichel for United, Cech for Chelsea etc. Our best teams of the past twenty years in terms of defence had Pepe Reina as a mainstay as well. Don't get me wrong, I believe in innovation and I believe part of the problem with Premier League football is its lack of new, fresh thinking. It's why English teams often lag behind the continental teams in Europe. But there is considerable evidence there to suggest that sticking with one keeper throughout the season works as well.

At this moment in time the weight of evidence is against Klopp. You must surely see that you are in the minority of people who think rotating keepers is a good idea and doesn't have any risks? I'm not saying it's not innovative or can't work. It's just not looking pretty impressive at the minute in the context of a rotating back line that's shipping a lot of goals.

[BabuYagu]

I like what you're saying about Klopp being groundbreaking to a certain extent. I love gegenpressing when it's in evidence though it can be frustrating when we don't make the most of the extra chances it's supposed to created like on Saturday. On those occasions it can feel like the days under Rodgers when we played a lot of nice football to look at that lacked cutting edge. Thankfully the evidence is there that we score a lot more under Klopp and have a better general shape so yeah, there have been more innovations and improvements in that area. The training methods are innovative and our dynamic wing play is amongst the best in the league.

I do take issue with what you say about accepted truths not actually being truths though. Popular choice often has a lot of evidence behind it. The majority of the teams that have won the Premier League, for example, have done so with a first choice keeper who has played basically every game of the season. David Seaman for Arsenal, Peter Schmeichel for United, Cech for Chelsea etc. Our best teams of the past twenty years in terms of defence had Pepe Reina as a mainstay as well. Don't get me wrong, I believe in innovation and I believe part of the problem with Premier League football is its lack of new, fresh thinking. It's why English teams often lag behind the continental teams in Europe. But there is considerable evidence there to suggest that sticking with one keeper throughout the season works as well.

At this moment in time the weight of evidence is against Klopp. You must surely see that you are in the minority of people who think rotating keepers is a good idea and doesn't have any risks? I'm not saying it's not innovative or can't work. It's just not looking pretty impressive at the minute in the context of a rotating back line that's shipping a lot of goals.

To which I would answer - does Mignolet or the defence look worse than before we rotated keepers?

To me, we are taking something we are failing at - trying something different - failing slightly less at the beginning and saying "this is still bad therefore it suggests the change doesn't work". Therefore going back to how it didn't work before with by and large the same players.

[Eeyore]

The goal on Saturday can't be put down to Mignolet but it highlighted a couple of things his footwork is horrendous and he has a poor awareness of where his posts are.

As the diagonal comes in he ends up to the right of his six yard box which is frankly ridiculous he then laboriously shuffles back across his goal but ends up going too far and simply isn't set when the shot comes in.

https://streamable.com/3nztw

A quicker more agile keeper with better positioning would of got much closer to Arfield and crucially would of been set and able to react better. Give Mignolet a reaction save where he doesn't have to move his feet and he is a top shot stopper but require him to move his feet and he is terrible.

[BabuYagu]

The goal on Saturday can't be put down to Mignolet but it highlighted a couple of things his footwork is horrendous and he has a poor awareness of where his posts are.

As the diagonal comes in he ends up to the right of his six yard box which is frankly ridiculous he then laboriously shuffles back across his goal but ends up going too far and simply isn't set when the shot comes in.

https://streamable.com/3nztw

A quicker more agile keeper with better positioning would of got much closer to Arfield and crucially would of been set and able to react better. Give Mignolet a reaction save where he doesn't have to move his feet and he is a top shot stopper but require him to move his feet and he is terrible.

I posted this before but in Germany they coach keepers differently in terms of higher starting positions and coming out quicker to close things down. Karius' starting position tends to be much higher than most keepers we are used to. I also made some clips to demonstrate how quick he is moving around his goal and dealing with 1-v-1 situations.













I would still have liked Migs to come out towards Arfield there narrowing the angle somewhat than just make the horizontal movement across his goal. Certainly not a mistake by Mignolet, just one of those stylistic things where I think a german coached keeper is better when in open spaces whereas british goalkeepers are better in crowded boxes.

[Eeyore]

I posted this before but in Germany they coach keepers differently in terms of higher starting positions and coming out quicker to close things down. Karius' starting position tends to be much higher than most keepers we are used to. I also made some clips to demonstrate how quick he is moving around his goal and dealing with 1-v-1 situations.















I would still have liked Migs to come out towards Arfield there narrowing the angle somewhat than just make the horizontal movement across his goal. Certainly not a mistake by Mignolet, just one of those stylistic things where I think a german coached keeper is better when in open spaces whereas british goalkeepers are better in crowded boxes.

Good compilation there mate.

I think another thing is that in this country smaller agile keepers rarely make it to the top level because Clubs place so much importance on a keepers ability to come for crosses. So we tend to get bigger keepers with slower feet.

[Bolrick]

Call me old fashioned....but i don't really like that we are rotating the goalkeepers so much. Can you blame the defence for looking so unsettled (especially when the CBs and fullbacks are rotated too ?)

We really should have sold either karius or ward this season as i don't think it is good idea to have so many goalkeepers with similar ability in the squad.

[nico 8]

Call me old fashioned....but i don't really like that we are rotating the goalkeepers so much. Can you blame the defence for looking so unsettled (especially when the CBs and fullbacks are rotated too ?)

We really should have sold either karius or ward this season as i don't think it is good idea to have so many goalkeepers with similar ability in the squad.

I quite like the thinking behind it. As long as it has been communicated to and accepted by the keepers I do foresee an issue in terms of confidence. You have keepers staying mentally fresh and maintain their match sharpness. You then avoid the big drop in ability from no. 1 to no. 2 and so forth. No.2 keepers are generally youth or semi retired players. Even worse are those who are simply not good enough to be a no.1 at a PL club.

[BabuYagu]

Call me old fashioned....but i don't really like that we are rotating the goalkeepers so much. Can you blame the defence for looking so unsettled (especially when the CBs and fullbacks are rotated too ?)

We really should have sold either karius or ward this season as i don't think it is good idea to have so many goalkeepers with similar ability in the squad.

In one sense, I don't like 3 keepers here as I would prefer to see one of them on loan getting games elsewhere.

On the other hand - Klopp has Migs as #1, Ward who is hopefully similar stylistically with a higher ceiling and Karius who is hopefully the exact opposite stylistically with a higher ceiling. Therefore maybe the aim is to see which of those two is better suited to this team's style and to know that, they need to play with the team in training and then in games. Effectively they are auditioning in training to see who will be #1 after Mignolet. I think unlike some keepers who go on long into their 30's and 40's, that won't happen with us due to the loss of explosiveness as you age. Which means Migs would be slower in covering the huge spaces we leave him to deal with as opposed to say Buffon whose backline is always nearby meaning he just needs to stay in goal and make saves, not come sprinting 30 yards off his line to deal with through balls.

It's likely just a question of when rather than if we see one of them take the #1 jersey.

Good compilation there mate.

I think another thing is that in this country smaller agile keepers rarely make it to the top level because Clubs place so much importance on a keepers ability to come for crosses. So we tend to get bigger keepers with slower feet.

Very good point. I agree with that. As an aside, did you ever see that small, freakishly agile goalkeeper in france who used to dress up as spiderman? I think he was 5'8" / 170cm.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/uFt4k_ydevM" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/uFt4k_ydevM</a>

[Groundskeeper Willie]

Flamboyant keeper. A few great saves in there, but also quite a few for the cameras.

[BabuYagu]

Flamboyant keeper. A few great saves in there, but also quite a few for the cameras.

Absolutely. But it's amazing that a keeper of his height could play on the level he did at all. I read that he played something like 1600 minutes of football in the French top flight without conceded a goal. Despite the fact Tyrion Lannister once called him a shortarse

[Purple Red]

To which I would answer - does Mignolet or the defence look worse than before we rotated keepers?

To me, we are taking something we are failing at - trying something different - failing slightly less at the beginning and saying "this is still bad therefore it suggests the change doesn't work". Therefore going back to how it didn't work before with by and large the same players.

We were solid defensively during the run in last season so I'm not sure what you mean by it not working before. You could equally argue that our defence has deteriorated further this season now that rotation is the policy.

[BabuYagu]

We were solid defensively during the run in last season so I'm not sure what you mean by it not working before. You could equally argue that our defence has deteriorated further this season now that rotation is the policy.

We are talking the tinyiest of sample sizes now though. I am talking about several seasons of Mignolet's performances

[rob1966]

He wasn't really. And I have to disagree with Rob here. As someone who used to be a decent keeper , that ball in to Matip isn't the goalkeeper's to go for. It's to far out near the line of the penalty area. I don't think any keeper in the world comes for that ball.

The right decision, IMO, is to keep his position, which he did.

I was a bit of a nutter though and had this "get that fucking ball out of my area" mentality. From where he started, roughly 10 yards from the edge of the box, I would have backed myself, when I was his age, to get to the ball first and get it cleared, going through whoever was in my way. He is actually nearer to it than Klavan.

Regardless of that though, as I said yesterday and Al has said, his footwork is awful. He's far too slow, he starts about 8 yds from his line and ends up going sideways and backwards ending up about 4-5 yds from it, he ends up giving Arnfield a larger target, he's too slow across so never gets set and he does that ridiculous bunny hop that killed any chance he had of saving it or at least getting a hand on it. Not saying he would have saved the shot, but he didn't help himself one bit.

[BabuYagu]

I was a bit of a nutter though and had this "get that fucking ball out of my area" mentality. From where he started, roughly 10 yards from the edge of the box, I would have backed myself, when I was his age, to get to the ball first and get it cleared, going through whoever was in my way. He is actually nearer to it than Klavan.

Regardless of that though, as I said yesterday and Al has said, his footwork is awful. He's far too slow, he starts about 8 yds from his line and ends up going sideways and backwards ending up about 4-5 yds from it, he ends up giving Arnfield a larger target, he's too slow across so never gets set and he does that ridiculous bunny hop that killed any chance he had of saving it or at least getting a hand on it. Not saying he would have saved the shot, but he didn't help himself one bit.

I don't know as much about keeping as those of you in here who have actually played the role. The whole footwork thing is something that makes sense to me as being important - just not something I ever noticed. I know from doing a little martial arts and kickboxing that it's vitally important for that.

I mentioned before - I don't mind goalkeepers making mistakes so much. If you are a proactive player you will make more perceived mistakes as you are assuming more responsibility and taking more risks. A goalkeeper who never leaves his line will never flap at a cross for example. The problem for me is when the underlying mechanics of a player is wrong. Or they have some physical limitation hindering them. For example Skrtel at RB under Rafa. He has the agility of a fridge. All big muscular players typically do. Put him up against a player with even average agility and acceleration and he will have problems. Plus his longer strides make him prone to some easy nutmegs for a winger when he is trying to jockey. So you cannot coach him to be smaller and have shorter legs. He will never be a suitable fullback. Except maybe for Roy Hodgson where Full Backs starting position is the corner of the 6 yard box it seems

So if there are issues with Mignolet's footwork, it's a worry as that isn't really a coachable thing at this stage in his career. I don't blame him for being on his line for the goal, I think that is a stylistic thing rather than any poor decision. Karius likely would have sprinted out towards Arfield. Not sure whether it would make any difference to be honest, it might increase his chances or make Arfield feel more pressured perhaps?

[didi shamone]

With Fordy's approval, the death knell of Ward's Liverpool career rings

His claiming of corners alone is worth five million.

[Trendisnotdestiny]

Okay, I reached my breaking point with Migs.

Great penalty save, but we know he can do this...

My issue is his decision making of when to come and get balls --- tired of this feature -- makes our defenders nervous (as if they needed more things to be concerned with).... 

If YOU go, YOU have to get the ball
If YOU get the ball, YOU have to direct it away from the attackers

Being late to his 18 yard box is a bonus criticism ----

Normally, I am part of the goalkeepers' union, but Simon is not good enough --- its taken a lot of fuck ups to get here for me.

[Kopenhagen]

Should be dropped now.

[Anfield89]

He should go with his hands and get there but well in on the save and a couple of others and well in coming for the balls in the air.

[Dench57]

Great stop for the penalty but he shouldn't have conceded it with that air-slice.

[Funky_Gibbons]

Great stop for the penalty but he shouldn't have conceded it with that air-slice.

Looked like he made contact with the ball, seemed a very harsh penalty.

[classycarra]

Really good performance. Only two negatives, in a sea of positives that even his critics have to have enjoyed, were their first and the penalty. Both were merely bad refereeing. The second wasn't great from Mignolet, but he did enough. It wasn't a penalty and he also didn't let the ball past him.

[pyroparty]

Was never a pen, got the ball, did well today in the face of some of the most biased and sickening officating you'll ever see.

[gloves]

I thought he was fine aside from the decision not to go with his hands for the 'foul' on Vardy (I thought he played the ball). He was clearly being impeded and held by Okazaki for the first goal and not sure he was too much at fault for the second goal. And of course he made up for the big mistake to give away the penalty.

He played off his line fairly well and settled things down with some of those longer balls that he claimed comfortably. But I know many won't share my views! : )

[Nick110581]

Was never a pen, got the ball, did well today in the face of some of the most biased and sickening officating you'll ever see.

He cleared it backwards tho 😂😂😂

[classycarra]

Quick note on those who thought Mignolet should have come out for the Burnley goal. Look at Schmeichel for Henderson's goal. You end up looking a mug and making it too easy for the attacker, if you come off your line too early.