Topic: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE

["Bobber" Thanks :)]

Exactly, I'm not sure how people don't get this. Hey stop protesting about this plight your people have suffered for hundreds of years. We have our own plight going on at the moment so yours will have to take a back seat for now (again).

The virus is everyone’s plight. Why can’t everyone be respectful towards everyone’s wellbeing, whatever the reason.

[24/7]

and btw there have been BLM related marches in manc before so it’s not a one off thing, at least for manc

That's true enough - and there have been marches and protests against racism in many countries for decades yet here we are in 2020 and the situation doesn't appear to be getting any better - quite the opposite!

[24/7]

Looks like it's all gone bandy on Whitehall.

What's that?

[FlashGordon]

The virus is everyone’s plight. Why can’t everyone be respectful towards everyone’s wellbeing, whatever the reason.

Yeah exactly, it's just another plight to add to the one black or brown people have been fighting for nearly 500 years. You can't begrudge them for protesting. Look at the response coronavirus elicited in you, it's something you want to fight against, it's something you want to eradicate. Well black and brown people have been fighting a similar virus for nigh on 500 years, I'll forgive them if they feel the need to protest against it, I'll go further than that and join them in solidarity.

Eradicating racism should be everyone's plight.

[classycarra]

Exactly, I'm not sure how people don't get this. Hey stop protesting about this plight your people have suffered for hundreds of years. We have our own plight going on at the moment so yours will have to take a back seat for now (again).

Isn't that quite needlessly reductive. Not all protesters are black. Not all people concerned about covid risks posed by the mass gathering are not black. It's just people, not race blocs.

I've yet to see anyone on RAWK express anything other than concern for the health consequences of the contacts of people attending non-socially distant protests. Something we all collectively share, I'm sure: a will that we can all keep as healthy as possible during this pandemic (and in non-pandemic times)

[J_Kopite]

Yeah, but they've basically just let the government off the hook was the point. They can set the narrative that mass protests with social distancing ignored were strongly warned against for spreading the virus and they didn't listen.

And I'm afraid they'd have a point.

[Dr. Beaker]

What's that?

Riot police etc. Saw a riderless police horse legging all over the place. There was mayhem by Downing Street.f

[FlashGordon]

Isn't that quite needlessly reductive. Not all protesters are black. Not all people concerned about covid risks posed by the mass gathering are not black. It's just people, not race blocs.

I've yet to see anyone on RAWK express anything other than concern for the health consequences of the contacts of people attending non-socially distant protests. Something we all collectively share, I'm sure: a will that we can all keep as healthy as possible during this pandemic (and in non-pandemic times)

Yeah fair enough I see your concerns. I'm not going to condemn people for protesting though, whatever their skin colour. You don't get to decide what is more important to people.

The people aren't out on the streets for some big happy piss up, I'm sure they would love to not have to be out protesting.

[FlashGordon]

And I'm afraid they'd have a point.

They could just say they were checking their eyesight.

[S]

Have protests started in any other major UK cities yet?

["Bobber" Thanks :)]

Yeah fair enough I see your concerns. I'm not going to condemn people for protesting though, whatever their skin colour. You don't get to decide what is more important to people.

The people aren't out on the streets for some big happy piss up, I'm sure they would love to not have to be out protesting.

Which would be fine if these people were going to self isolate for 14 days after the protests. But how many will? I bet not many because, instead they will be spreading the virus to innocent people, people who are neither racist or wish harm on others. But that doesn’t matter, fuck them their only strangers, their lives have no consequence.

I see both sides, and yes racism or any sort of bigotry or inequality should be everyone’s fight, but not at the very high risk to innocent lives.

Anyway I’ve said my point of view, we do all have good intentions on here.

[S]

Which would be fine if these people were going to self isolate for 14 days after the protests. But how many will? I bet not many because, instead they will be spreading the virus to innocent people, people who are neither racist or wish harm on others. But that doesn’t matter, fuck them their only strangers, their lives have no consequence.

I see both sides, and yes racism or any sort of bigotry or inequality should be everyone’s fight, but not at the very high risk to innocent lives.

Anyway I’ve said my point of view, we do all have good intentions on here.

Yeah, that last note is important I feel. I genuinely haven’t come across anyone on RAWK who I would consider even remotely racist. It’s just inevitable that opinions are going to differ given the timing of these protests.

[Hedley Lamarr]

Have protests started in any other major UK cities yet?

One due in Bristol tomorrow, you know, that place in the South West where the R number is hovering around 1. 

[rushyman]

These marches could very well end up killing multiple people

Of all colours

It’s like if you say this or say anything about how dangerous these marches are your a racist

I completely fucking resent that.

[filopastry]

Sunday Times reporting that the mood in government has very much changed towards saving jobs and the economy rather than "following the science".

We will see how sustainable that is if the R starts rising significantly above 1.

[Fordy]

Sunday Times reporting that the mood in government has very much changed towards saving jobs and the economy rather than "following the science".

We will see how sustainable that is if the R starts rising significantly above 1.

Doubt any going back now.

Businesses need to start opening, hospitality urgently needs to get go and offices have to open.

No vaccine, no cure in sight. The government have messed up from the start but now the economy needs to kick start.

[djahern]

Sunday Times reporting that the mood in government has very much changed towards saving jobs and the economy rather than "following the science".

We will see how sustainable that is if the R starts rising significantly above 1.

Was always inevitable really and probably not just for the UK. I guess an interesting question is has the the mood in the public changed towards saving jobs and the economy rather than "following the science"? Maybe not yet, but it's inching in that direction I think - but me thinking that is only coming from limited discussions with friends and acquaintances, there seems to be a gradual move in that direction taking place.

[OOS]

Sunday Times reporting that the mood in government has very much changed towards saving jobs and the economy rather than "following the science".

We will see how sustainable that is if the R starts rising significantly above 1.

So no proper track and trace till September at least, but easing lockdown a few months before its properly in place?

I don't know the data, but for people on the Furlough, will there be sufficient demand that they have a job to go back too?

Mass redundancies for Christmas, not controlling this virus and then end of Brexit transition for New Year. I'm I being too pessimistic and over dramatic?

[oldfordie]

Sunday Times reporting that the mood in government has very much changed towards saving jobs and the economy rather than "following the science".

We will see how sustainable that is if the R starts rising significantly above 1.

So we've gone from Follow the science to Follow the money.
Mind you that sounds about right for a corrupt incompetent government.

[BarryCrocker]

Was always inevitable really and probably not just for the UK. I guess an interesting question is has the the mood in the public changed towards saving jobs and the economy rather than "following the science"? Maybe not yet, but it's inching in that direction I think - but me thinking that is only coming from limited discussions with friends and acquaintances, there seems to be a gradual move in that direction taking place.

Sounds like the whole climate change argument is being replicated.

[Shankly998]

Sounds like the whole climate change argument is being replicated.

Not really there's universal agreement that the costs associated with tackling climate change are far far less than the costs would be of doing nothing. It's not the same situation with Covid-19 there is definitely a point where the medicine becomes worse than the disease is, when that is, is the million dollar question of course.

[filopastry]

So no proper track and trace till September at least, but easing lockdown a few months before its properly in place?

I don't know the data, but for people on the Furlough, will there be sufficient demand that they have a job to go back too?

Mass redundancies for Christmas, not controlling this virus and then end of Brexit transition for New Year. I'm I being too pessimistic and over dramatic?

Also pushing to get the social distancing limit down to 1m from 2m, but UK scientists not apparently playing ball so far.

Want to get seasonal businesses open for summer or they fear they will go under.

Trying to negotiate travel corridors with popular holiday destinations so that the whole self imposed quarantine issue is sidestepped.

Current timeline on some loosening is reported as Beer gardens -Late June, Holidays - June 28, Theme parks - July 4, Weddings - before Mid-Jul

[BarryCrocker]

Not really there's universal agreement that the costs associated with tackling climate change are far far less than the costs would be of doing nothing. It's not the same situation with Covid-19 there is definitely a point where the medicine becomes worse than the disease is, when that is, is the million dollar question of course.

So we don't listen to the scientists in both cases.

[Shankly998]

So we don't listen to the scientists in both cases.

They have listened to the scientists in both cases maybe you don't like the actions they've taken but they have listened. They can offer advice about what the best steps are to lessen the death toll from Covid but there may be a point where you have to disregard the advice if the result will be more deaths as a result of a destroyed economy.

[Shankly998]

So we don't listen to the scientists in both cases.

They have listened to the scientists in both cases maybe you don't like the actions they've taken but they have listened. They can offer advice about what the best steps are to lessen the death toll from Covid but there may be a point where you have to disregard the advice if the result will be more deaths as a result of a destroyed economy.

[Zeb]

This links into a couple of the major news themes, as well as concerns at local government level about what comes next and adequate funding to mitigate.

The wider health literature suggests that people from lower socioeconomic backgrounds are less resilient to shocks such as ill-health, experiencing greater financial burden, and hardship. This suggests there is likely to be a social gradient in these experiences during COVID-19, but so far there has been limited empirical investigation of inequalities in experience of adversity during the pandemic. Nevertheless, these experiences of burden and hardship are vital to understand as studies of previous epidemics have found a relationship between experience of adversity and psychological consequences including post-traumatic stress and depression. This echoes wider literature on the strong relationship between adversities relating to finances, basic needs, and ill-health, and poor mental and physical health outcomes.

Therefore, this study explored the changing patterns of adversity relating to the COVID-19 pandemic by socioeconomic position (SEP) during the first few weeks of lockdown in the UK. We focused on three types of adversity: (1) financial stressors (loss of work, partner’s loss of work, cut in household income or inability to pay bills), (2) challenges relating to basic needs (including food, medications and accommodation) and (3) experience of the virus itself (including contracting the virus, a close person being hospitalised and a close person dying). We sought to explore the nature of the relationship between SEP and (1) number of adversities experienced, (2) type of adversity experienced, and (3) how the relationship evolved over the first 3 weeks of lockdown.

When exploring the patterns for each type of adversity individually, there was a clear social gradient across all financial measures and across factors relating to basic needs. People of lower SEP were 1.5 times more likely to experience loss of work compared with people of higher SEP, and their partners were twice as likely to experience loss of work. They were also 7.2 times more likely to be unable to pay bills in week 1 (rising to 8.7 times more likely by week 3), 4.1 times more likely to be unable to access sufficient food in week 1 (rising to 4.9 times more likely be week 3) and 2.5 times more likely to be unable to access required medication. However, there was little evidence of a gradient in experiences directly relating to the virus, with no significant differences between groups. In comparing the change in experience of each specific adversity over time by SEP, the inequalities present in each individual adversity were maintained each week, with no evidence of improvement over time.

Good news is that a lot of this can be mitigated if it's recognised. eg It shouldn't be that hard to get the number of people worrying about feeding themselves and their family right down to negligeable.

Even if these initial financial shocks are reduced over time as schemes come into effect and as more measures are taken, they are still concerning, given the well-researched link between experience of adversities and poor mental health outcomes, poor physical health outcomes and suicides. In planning ahead for anticipated upcoming stages in the fallout from the pandemic, such as a possible future recession, this suggests that more steps need to be taken urgently to reduce further adverse effects for individuals of lower SEP before further negative effects occur.

https://jech.bmj.com/content/early/2020/06/04/jech-2020-214475.full

[djahern]

Sounds like the whole climate change argument is being replicated.

It does a bit

[djahern]

This links into a couple of the major news themes, as well as concerns at local government level about what comes next and adequate funding to mitigate.

Good news is that a lot of this can be mitigated if it's recognised. eg It shouldn't be that hard to get the number of people worrying about feeding themselves and their family right down to negligeable.

https://jech.bmj.com/content/early/2020/06/04/jech-2020-214475.full

Looks interesting that paper. I'll read that tomorrow and not tonight after too many whiskeys.

[oldfordie]

They have listened to the scientists in both cases maybe you don't like the actions they've taken but they have listened. They can offer advice about what the best steps are to lessen the death toll from Covid but there may be a point where you have to disregard the advice if the result will be more deaths as a result of a destroyed economy.

No idea how you would know if our government did listen to the scientists.
We scientists said lock down. But UK politicians refused to listen
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/15/uk-government-coronavirus-science-who-advice

[djahern]

No idea how you would know if our government did listen to the scientists.
We scientists said lock down. But UK politicians refused to listen
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/15/uk-government-coronavirus-science-who-advice

April 15th that was, bit sobering to read it. Still too late, as a scientist I locked down my folks in mid Feb, they haven't hugged their grandkids since then, they haven't left the house bar hospital appointment. It was clear as day this was coming, the only question was how fast.

[oldfordie]

April 15th that was, bit sobering to read it. Still too late, as a scientist I locked down my folks in mid Feb, they haven't hugged their grandkids since then, they haven't left the house bar hospital appointment. It was clear as day this was coming, the only question was how fast.

March 17th was the last time i went out to shop. went to Asda at 7pm to avoid walking through a  crowded shop,am not sure if i had heard the expression "social distancing" back then, all i knew was keep away from people if you can.

[TeddyTime33]

They have listened to the scientists in both cases maybe you don't like the actions they've taken but they have listened. They can offer advice about what the best steps are to lessen the death toll from Covid but there may be a point where you have to disregard the advice if the result will be more deaths as a result of a destroyed economy.

they've said they listened to the science because its an easy fallback when it all goes tits up, as it pretty much has been so far, politicians can distance themselves from the scientists come election time

[PaulF]

I've seen a couple of articles now on the bbc where it's clear the impact this is having on medical staff. They are utterly exhausted by this. Some with permanent medical conditions and and it seems many will have some sort of post traumatic disorder. We need to find some way to help them. Not least because we will need them for wave 2.

[Crumble]

Was always inevitable really and probably not just for the UK. I guess an interesting question is has the the mood in the public changed towards saving jobs and the economy rather than "following the science"? Maybe not yet, but it's inching in that direction I think - but me thinking that is only coming from limited discussions with friends and acquaintances, there seems to be a gradual move in that direction taking place.

From chatting to people I play golf with, plenty of people still think the lockdown was a bad idea, an overreaction that should never have happened in the first place. After all, most people who catch it have it mild, most people who die of it didn't have long to go anyway. People die of stuff every day, we should just get on with our lives. The scientists got it wrong, we build loads of temporary hospitals that never got used while stopping ordinary people from earning a living.

So a decent proportion of the public, including most Tory voters, will be quietly cheering the end of the lockdown: shame about the dead people, time to move on. Cummings has judged this one right.

[Felch Aid]

Also pushing to get the social distancing limit down to 1m from 2m, but UK scientists not apparently playing ball so far.

Want to get seasonal businesses open for summer or they fear they will go under.

Trying to negotiate travel corridors with popular holiday destinations so that the whole self imposed quarantine issue is sidestepped.

Current timeline on some loosening is reported as Beer gardens -Late June, Holidays - June 28, Theme parks - July 4, Weddings - before Mid-Jul

The father in law is on the committee of a traditional working mans club. They've been told to 'prepare' to open up from the 4th July by the brewery. No mention of how or social distancing although with the government advice seems to arrive the night before.

Seems very odd when Whitty was banging on about restrictions all year. The science appears to be irrelevant now.

[jillcwhomever]

The father in law is on the committee of a traditional working mans club. They've been told to 'prepare' to open up from the 4th July by the brewery. No mention of how or social distancing although with the government advice seems to arrive the night before.

Seems very odd when Whitty was banging on about restrictions all year. The science appears to be irrelevant now.

I think your last lines pretty much sums it up. I wonder if a time will come when the scientists decide to no longer take part in the updates, what with the total lack of respect there being shown by the present Government. It is pretty obvious those in power are only interested about the economy now. But it is noticeable about how many more scientists are becoming more public in their opinions over how its being handled.

[PaulF]

If we wanted to follow the science to increase life expectancy, we would ban the sale of tobacco products. We would probably ban the sale of alcohol. And maybe we should have some kind of salt , sugar and fat ration. And gyms would be state subsidised. I know all of those things are things we can control ourselves. But you get my drift.

[thejbs]

They have listened to the scientists in both cases maybe you don't like the actions they've taken but they have listened. They can offer advice about what the best steps are to lessen the death toll from Covid but there may be a point where you have to disregard the advice if the result will be more deaths as a result of a destroyed economy.

Can you pinpoint the moment, since 2010, when the austerity-driven Tories started caring about public lives? You're right, they're looking at the economy, but it absolutely isn't because of the 'deaths as a result of a destroyed economy.'

A disease that disproportionately wipes out BAME, the poor and the elderly* seems like it could've been dreamt up in a Tory think-tank.


*The elderly most affected have been in care homes or poorer backgrounds - so not really the Tory base.

[TheTeflonJohn]

Exactly, I'm not sure how people don't get this. Hey stop protesting about this plight your people have suffered for hundreds of years. We have our own plight going on at the moment so yours will have to take a back seat for now (again).

This virus isn`t about black and white, it`s about people regardless of ethnicity.

I think it`s safe to say people will die from someone infected at these protests. It may be people who attended the protests and it may be people who contract the virus from people who attended a protest.

Does that make it ok for someone to die because people are protesting against centuries of racism? Would you still have the same stance if it was one of your nearest and dearest who died as a result of getting this virus through these protests?

Whilst I agree with the reasons behind the protests, I don`t agree it`s acceptable to potentially kill someone by attending.

[Bincey]

Latest ICNARC report shows an improving mortality rate overall for those in critical care. 57.6% discharged alive in the latest figures - was pretty much around 50% at the start of the crisis if i remember correctly.