Topic: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE

[S]

This is the worst possible time for huge crowds of people to gather. As health experts are saying, in terms of Covid-19 this is an absolute disaster.

There will be asymptomatic people in attendance. A huge proportion of those gathering will be black people, who are statistically amongst the most vulnerable. That alone is a nightmare combination. As well as that though, and as everyone should know by now, it's not only your own life that is being put in danger. Someone who attends a protest today could next week pass the virus on to someone who shares the exact same stance on racial injustice, yet avoided the crowds through fear of transmission. For me that represents a tragedy.

I've been sickened by the footage of police brutality in the past few days. It's staggering to think there's that much material from one single week. Imagining that multiplied over a longer timescale and allowing for the fact that most incidents will go unfilmed is a terrifying thought. I just think there may have been an alternative involving mobilisation and planning in the long term. I don't have the answers of course, but I see these photos and wish this could happen at a safer time, when healthcare workers and so many other innocent people wouldn't be put at risk.

["Bobber" Thanks :)]

Exactly. You can't hold this protest in 6 months time as it just won't have the same impact. Or is Jill really suggesting that this waits for a bit whilst more black men and women are killed by the police in America due to the colour of their skin or more black men and women are arrested and treated differently in this country again due to the colour of their skin? There's a melting pot right now and whilst the protests aren't ideal due to the COVID situation they are definitely relevant and needed.

I hear you, but I wonder how many people are going to die as a direct result of the virus being spread by these gatherings? Do we just think fuck it, these people are just collateral damage because the BLM cause is more important?

[Fromola]

I hear you, but I wonder how many people are going to die as a direct result of the virus being spread by these gatherings? Do we just think fuck it, these people are just collateral damage because the BLM cause is more important?

They've also done the government a favour. Any second wave or bump in the death rate gets placed at the hands of the demonstrations now by the Right. It's also taken the heat off Cummings.

[TeddyTime33]

Protests are fine and very justified given the recent events, in reality there is probably no way to prevent these from taking place, if police crackdown they only make the issue much worse. But large gatherings shouldn't be taking place given the circumstances and people have seemed to forgotten that. Dangerous precedents been set here

[TeddyTime33]

They've also done the government a favour. Any second wave or bump in the death rate gets placed at the hands of the demonstrations now by the Right. It's also taken the heat off Cummings.

the events across America last week happening at the same time we relaxed the lockdown was really unfortunate timing

[TSC]

I've mentioned this on this thread before and it's been mentioned on other social media as well, no one seems to care which is a shame

Maybe the fact it no longer gets mentioned much is it’s now lost in among all the other ‘noise’ (lies) peddled at these daily briefings.  Media prob has to pick which detail to challenge in the briefing queries.

[J_Kopite]

They've also done the government a favour. Any second wave or bump in the death rate gets placed at the hands of the demonstrations now by the Right. It's also taken the heat off Cummings.

It won't just be "the Right" - it'll be the epidemiologists and scientists too.

[Welshred]

I hear you, but I wonder how many people are going to die as a direct result of the virus being spread by these gatherings? Do we just think fuck it, these people are just collateral damage because the BLM cause is more important?

How many people have died at the hands of the police and racism not only in America but around the world? This is something that has been going on for hundreds of years when it just shouldn't be. It's a massive issue and the mood to combat it has come now and combined with Covid it's a bad mix but you cannot tell people who have been oppressed because of the colour of their skin why and when they should be protesting.

A huge proportion of those gathering will be black people, who are statistically amongst the most vulnerable.

Think about why that it is just for a second. The societal discrimination that black people receive is deep rooted in racism and leads to inequality in jobs, health and status. They're more vulnerable exactly because of the colour of their skin.

[Fromola]

It won't just be "the Right" - it'll be the epidemiologists and scientists too.

Yeah, but they've basically just let the government off the hook was the point. They can set the narrative that mass protests with social distancing ignored were strongly warned against for spreading the virus and they didn't listen.

["Bobber" Thanks :)]

How many people have died at the hands of the police and racism not only in America but around the world? This is something that has been going on for hundreds of years when it just shouldn't be. It's a massive issue and the mood to combat it has come now and combined with Covid it's a bad mix but you cannot tell people who have been oppressed because of the colour of their skin why and when they should be protesting.

I hear you completely and agree, but I still struggle to reconcile that it’s putting many many other people’s lives at risk. But perhaps I just need to make peace with the fact that usually things that are for the greater good of society, i.e. BLM are usually costly in terms of having to sacrifice the lives of innocent people.

The worlds so fucked up my brain hurts.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Social media isnt going to have half the influence these protests have had.

its also not going to kill directly or indirectly as many people as the street protests, getting people registered to vote and committing to vote for local elections is what the focus should be right now (referring to the UK ones, US ones I’m more sympathetic as they have to live with the police brutality that isn’t as much the case here)

[Welshred]

its also not going to kill directly or indirectly as many people as the street protests, getting people registered to vote and committing to vote for local elections to drive actual change is what the focus should be right now

They've had this available to them for decades, it doesn't work. I read on Twitter earlier a black Dr say he was privileged because he suffered less racism because of the work his parents had done for his generation after he'd posted a long thread details a harrowing amount of racist behaviour towards him. Voting in local elections isn't going to change that.

I hear you completely and agree, but I still struggle to reconcile that it’s putting many many other people’s lives at risk. But perhaps I just need to make peace with the fact that usually things that are for the greater good of society, i.e. BLM are usually costly in terms of having to sacrifice the lives of innocent people.

The worlds so fucked up my brain hurts.

The only other option is for people to tell these black folks that they should listen to them and stop protesting which is exactly what they're protesting against. If the government use it against them in the future then hopefully it'll be seen as white men telling black people what they should be doing. There's also a large part of me that thinks there would be a hell of a lot less people complaining about these protests if it was for something else other than black lives matter.

[classycarra]

How many people have died at the hands of the police and racism not only in America but around the world? This is something that has been going on for hundreds of years when it just shouldn't be. It's a massive issue and the mood to combat it has come now and combined with Covid it's a bad mix but you cannot tell people who have been oppressed because of the colour of their skin why and when they should be protesting.

Has anyone told people when they are entitled to protest? Haven't caught that myself.

Not sure how helpful it is to infantilise the people attending the protests though, or acting like they have no agency. They have a choice and they have decided to protest, as is their right (albeit it might be breaking current regulations).

They have to be aware there could be health consequences to their actions though, that doesn't disappear just because it's an important cause.

[Welshred]

(referring to the UK ones, US ones I’m more sympathetic as they have to live with the police brutality that isn’t as much the case here)

Police forces here are just as institutionally racist as the ones in the US, they just don't have the deadly weapons to kill as many black people as the US ones.

[Welshred]

Has anyone told people when they are entitled to protest? Haven't caught that myself.

Well they're telling them they shouldn't be doing it now, or at least criticising them for doing so yes people are telling them when they should be entitled to protest.

[classycarra]

Well they're telling them they shouldn't be doing it now, or at least criticising them for doing so yes people are telling them when they should be entitled to protest.

Not my fight, since I haven't said that I don't think, but criticism of people putting other people's health/life at risk in order to attend a non-distanced protest doesn't read the same as saying 'you aren't entitled to protest' to me

[24/7]

its also not going to kill directly or indirectly as many people as the street protests, getting people registered to vote and committing to vote for local elections is what the focus should be right now (referring to the UK ones, US ones I’m more sympathetic as they have to live with the police brutality that isn’t as much the case here)

Um....relatively speaking you maybe statistically correct but nevertheless...

[Lush is the best medicine...]

They've had this available to them for decades, it doesn't work. I read on Twitter earlier a black Dr say he was privileged because he suffered less racism because of the work his parents had done for his generation after he'd posted a long thread details a harrowing amount of racist behaviour towards him. Voting in local elections isn't going to change that.

its directed to the states where far more things, like police commissioners, judges, mayors etc are electable so do your research and vote, as that’s more likely to help, see the words of Obama recently on this, ie how can I improve my area?

Has anyone told people when they are entitled to protest? Haven't caught that myself.

Not sure how helpful it is to infantilise the people attending the protests though, or acting like they have no agency. They have a choice and they have decided to protest, as is their right (albeit it might be breaking current regulations).

They have to be aware there could be health consequences to their actions though, that doesn't disappear just because it's an important cause.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/52890363

On average in the UK 16.3 people die a year at the hands of the police, 86% of them are white, so whilst I can understand solidarity with Americans this isn’t an enormous issue over here, and of course its highly probable that over here that a lot more than 16 people will die as a result of these protests directly and indirectly, not to mention many others will suffer from this being in hospital, not being fit to work so have to isolate and end up on sick pay etc so I’ve no issue with showing solidarity but protesting right now over here is irresponsible

Um....

16.3 a year, vast majority are white, not great but vastly better than the states and more are likely to die as a result from the protests than at the hands of the police

[24/7]

Provided you maintain the social distancing guidelines, you're no less likely to contract c19 outdoors than you are say in Tesco. Behaving responsibly when protesting a global issue is not being irresponsible. Travelling over 200 miles with yer kid in a car is. But that's OK cos it's one rule and all that. It's like all bets were off once Cummings acted like a selfish c*nt...


Anyway. There's a lot of anger around. So.

[Welshred]

16.3 a year, vast majority are white, not great but vastly better than the states and more are likely to die as a result from the protests than at the hands of the police

In the 2011 Census black people made up roughly 3% of the UK population, white people 81%. A black person is statistically more likely to die at the hands of the police in the UK than white people.

Not my fight, since I haven't said that I don't think, but criticism of people putting other people's health/life at risk in order to attend a non-distanced protest doesn't read the same as saying 'you aren't entitled to protest' to me

Why are black people being criticised for protesting about their lives then? People can be concerned about COVID-19 but black people can be just as concerned about how they are treated in this country due to the colour of their skin

[TeddyTime33]

Provided you maintain the social distancing guidelines, you're no less likely to contract c19 outdoors than you are say in Tesco. Behaving responsibly when protesting a global issue is not being irresponsible. Travelling over 200 miles with yer kid in a car is. But that's OK cos it's one rule and all that. It's like all bets were off once Cummings acted like a selfish c*nt...


Anyway. There's a lot of anger around. So.

of course Cummings was wrong but we've all seen photos from these protests with no social distancing and large crowds in small spaces, even being outdoors and masks etc there is a clear risk here, these people are entitled to the freedom to protest why can other people not have freedoms too?

[TeddyTime33]

Police forces here are just as institutionally racist as the ones in the US, they just don't have the deadly weapons to kill as many black people as the US ones.

US police are more inclined to use force whether a weapon or not as well I think

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Provided you maintain the social distancing guidelines, you're no less likely to contract c19 outdoors than you are say in Tesco. Behaving responsibly when protesting a global issue is not being irresponsible. Travelling over 200 miles with yer kid in a car is. But that's OK cos it's one rule and all that. It's like all bets were off once Cummings acted like a selfish c*nt...

except there isn’t much social distancing, that’s the issue here and it will be used

In the 2011 Census black people made up roughly 3% of the UK population, white people 81%. A black person is statistically more likely to die at the hands of the police in the UK than white people.

86% are white people who die at the hands of the cops, 8% are black for full context here, and it’s a very small sample size as 163 over a decade is far too small a size to draw definitive conclusions

[24/7]

except there isn’t much social distancing, that’s the issue here and it will be used....

And I lament that whilst applauding those who do act responsibly.

[Welshred]

except there isn’t much social distancing, that’s the issue here and it will be used

86% are white people who die at the hands of the cops, 8% are black for full context here, and it’s a very small sample size as 163 over a decade is far too small a size to draw definitive conclusions

Let them use it - if we get a more equal society then we'd be all the better for it.

So if you're black you're approximately 2.5 times more likely to die at the hands of the police (8% deaths from 3% of the population) compared to approximately 1.1 times more likely to die if you're white. Yet what I think you're trying to say is that a white person is treated worse by the police than a black person.

["Bobber" Thanks :)]

In the 2011 Census black people made up roughly 3% of the UK population, white people 81%. A black person is statistically more likely to die at the hands of the police in the UK than white people.

Why are black people being criticised for protesting about their lives then? People can be concerned about COVID-19 but black people can be just as concerned about how they are treated in this country due to the colour of their skin

I don’t know, to me people can do whatever they want, either on a small scale or a large scale as long as it doesn’t have a negative impact on anyone else and these protests, where there’s a lot of pictures of people jammed packed like sardines are going to cause damage to other people’s health. However rightful the protest cause, surely it doesn't justify putting other peoples lives in danger.

[Welshred]

I don’t know, to me people can do whatever they want, either on a small scale or a large scale as long as it doesn’t have a negative impact on anyone else and these protests, where there’s a lot of pictures of people jammed packed like sardines are going to cause damage to other people’s health. However rightful the protest cause, surely it doesn't justify putting other peoples lives in danger.

So the alternative is to continue with social inequality, institutionalised racism, marginalisation of black people and deaths of black people due to racism then? Something that has been happening for hundreds of years opposed to the last 6 months?

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Let them use it - if we get a more equal society then we'd be all the better for it.

So if you're black you're approximately 2.5 times more likely to die at the hands of the police (8% deaths from 3% of the population) compared to approximately 1.1 times more likely to die if you're white. Yet what I think you're trying to say is that a white person is treated worse by the police than a black person

no I’m saying that amount of data it’s based on is far too small to draw definitive conclusions from, 163 over a decade is an absolutely tiny sample size, and of course not all of them are as a result of police brutality as some of them are more than justified (Sudesh Amman and Usman Khan are two) and others clearly weren’t (Dalian Atkinson, Rashan Charles)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_in_the_United_Kingdom

And I lament that whilst applauding those who do act responsibly.

Yup, nobody has an issue with people over here protesting, it’s doing it in manner that will make a pandemic worse

[Dr. Beaker]

Would I be right in thinking that a black person dying at the hands of the police in the UK is quite likely to be the result of a freakish accident whereas in the US there would be greater likelihood of criminal negligence.

["Bobber" Thanks :)]

So the alternative is to continue with social inequality, institutionalised racism, marginalisation of black people and deaths of black people due to racism then? Something that has been happening for hundreds of years opposed to the last 6 months?

No, no that’s not the alternative, there has to be other ways that better minds than mine can come up with.

But are you telling that if the R rate goes back up to what it was and we have another 4 months like the last, another lockdown and another 40,000 deaths in this country alone because people aren’t socially distancing, that it’s all worth it?

[Welshred]

Would I be right in thinking that a black person dying at the hands of the police in the UK is quite likely to be the result of a freakish accident whereas in the US there would be greater likelihood of criminal negligence.

No

"Kingsley Burrell, 29, died in 2011 from cardiac arrest days after being detained by West Midlands Police in northern England. Three officers were cleared of allegations of using excessive force -- one of whom was sacked for gross misconduct for not removing a spit hood placed on Burrell during his detention and transfer to a psychiatric ward."

"The police involved in Rigg's arrest were cleared of allegations of misconduct last year, despite an inquiry ruling their methods of restraint had "more than minimally contributed to his death."

https://abcnews.go.com/amp/International/british-black-deaths-police-custody-compare-us/story?id=71054650

"In 2001 Ricky Bishop and a friend were detained by police in Brixton.

Bishop died while in police custody, sustaining cuts around his mouth and wrists, and injuries to his legs."

https://www.donsidepiper.co.uk/read-this/black-people-are-twice-likely-die-police-custody-uk-according-statistics-2876490

Christopher Alder - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-humber-15837490

Sarah Reed - https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/feb/17/sarah-reeds-mother-deaths-in-custody-holloway-prison-mental-health

Sheku Bayoh - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-52921981

You could probably go on and on and on and on and on.

[Welshred]

No, no that’s not the alternative, there has to be other ways that better minds than mine can come up with.

But are you telling that if the R rate goes back up to what it was and we have another 4 months like the last, another lockdown and another 40,000 deaths in this country alone because people aren’t socially distancing, that it’s all worth it?

Better minds haven't been able to come up with it which is why 57 years after Martin Luther Kings "I have a dream" speech black people are still fighting for an equal position in society.

To say that an extra 40,000 people are going to die because of these protests is also stretching it a hell of a lot as well.

[filopastry]

I can certainly understand the anger that has led people to protest and in an ideal world everyone would be socially distancing, but I'm sure many won't be.

If nothing else at least it is outside which will reduce the level of transmission.

To be honest I'm struggling to get too excited about breach of rules anyway, lets be honest the lockdown has been falling apart now since around VE day, worsened by the phenomenally unclear guidance on this phase of restrictions, and finally by Cummings and the govt taking the piss out of everyone who has made sacrifices over the last few months, its a pleasant surprise when you meet people who are still taking it seriously at the moment.

[24/7]

Yup, nobody has an issue with people over here protesting, it’s doing it in manner that will make a pandemic worse

Which isn't everywhere. Just in some places. And yes those people should be having a look at what they're doing - then again, there's a sense of desperation in some communities, a palpable "damned if we do damned if we don't so we may as well do" if you like.

Can anyone blame them for that?

Centuries of oppression......

["Bobber" Thanks :)]

Better minds haven't been able to come up with it which is why 57 years after Martin Luther Kings "I have a dream" speech black people are still fighting for an equal position in society.

To say that an extra 40,000 people are going to die because of these protests is also stretching it a hell of a lot as well.

*Any form of mass gathering where social distance isn’t being maintained.

I don't think it’s a stretch at all to say who knows how many deaths could result from the virus getting out of hand again through social distancing rules not being respected.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Which isn't everywhere. Just in some places. And yes those people should be having a look at what they're doing - then again, there's a sense of desperation in some communities, a palpable "damned if we do damned if we don't so we may as well do" if you like.

Can anyone blame them for that?

Centuries of oppression......

can I blame people who’ve been on the end of it, no, which is why I’m more sympathetic to the people in the states at the protests, but this is a time where in places like manc where I live the R rate is above 1 and there was a pretty large demonstration today where people were tightly packed for large parts there comes a point where doing such tightly packed marches isn’t a great idea, and btw there have been BLM related marches in manc before so it’s not a one off thing, at least for manc

[Speedy Molby]

no I’m saying that amount of data it’s based on is far too small to draw definitive conclusions from, 163 over a decade is an absolutely tiny sample size, and of course not all of them are as a result of police brutality as some of them are more than justified (Sudesh Amman and Usman Khan are two) and others clearly weren’t (Dalian Atkinson, Rashan Charles)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_in_the_United_Kingdom
Yup, nobody has an issue with people over here protesting, it’s doing it in manner that will make a pandemic worse

Don't want to derail the thread, but does the 163 include the 96 who died in 1989 but were not recorded as being unlawfully killed by the police until 2016?

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Don't want to derail the thread, but does the 163 include the 96 who died in 1989 but were not recorded as being unlawfully killed by the police until 2016?

no

[FlashGordon]

Which isn't everywhere. Just in some places. And yes those people should be having a look at what they're doing - then again, there's a sense of desperation in some communities, a palpable "damned if we do damned if we don't so we may as well do" if you like.

Can anyone blame them for that?

Centuries of oppression......

Exactly, I'm not sure how people don't get this. Hey stop protesting about this plight your people have suffered for hundreds of years. We have our own plight going on at the moment so yours will have to take a back seat for now (again).

[Dr. Beaker]

Looks like it's all gone bandy on Whitehall.