Topic: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE

[Dr. Beaker]

By locking down too late ?

Johnson will take no responsibility. He has made no mistakes.

[Nick110581]

Wow what a fuck up.

Heads need to roll for this. Politicians and scientists need pulling up on this big time.

But you have a PM who is proud of their success and a Health Secretary who says they did everything at the right time.

[killer-heels]

But you have a PM who is proud of their success and a Health Secretary who says they did everything at the right time.

Well we need to find out what the advice was and what decisions were taken.

[Zeb]

Series of things he's saying, and some of it isn't new from last time he was before a committee in Westminster. Italy and Spain were further ahead than anyone thought - including themselves - and that applied to Britain too, Ferguson reckons that things were two weeks further on than they'd realised as a result of number of cases coming in before it was realised they were there. There was also an assumption that care homes would be properly shielded which turned out to be totally wrong as infection rates there are running 4x higher than in the general population.

[Nick110581]

Well we need to find out what the advice was and what decisions were taken.

As Dr Beaker says, Johnson won't take responsibility.

Hancock will be first out the door when the investigation starts.

[filopastry]

I presume we were late because "mitigation" was the strategy before the UCL model scared the crap out of everyone and we moved to "suppression".

The major failure in this whole shambles, was clearly the delay  in lockdown, if the plan is to suppress you have to do it early, with a virus that was seeing cases double every 3 days or so it makes a huge difference to mortality, and it also leaves you with lower case numbers and a more manageable exit from lockdown at the back end.

You combine that with the failure to protect the vulnerable in care homes, and more than that to negligently seed infected people back into those care homes untested and you end up with the situation we find ourselves in.

We were relatively lucky in that we had more warning of the virus hitting Europe than the likes of Italy had, and more time to respond, but it was sadly wasted.

[Tony19:6]

Prof Neil Ferguson (imperial) tells Science and technology select committee that had UK had entered lockdown a week earlier then number of deaths could have been halved compared to what they are now.

Im slightly weary of such guesses personally, I think it was this guy who predicted 500,000 deaths before lockdown.
 

[filopastry]

Series of things he's saying, and some of it isn't new from last time he was before a committee in Westminster. Italy and Spain were further ahead than anyone thought - including themselves - and that applied to Britain too, Ferguson reckons that things were two weeks further on than they'd realised as a result of number of cases coming in before it was realised they were there. There was also an assumption that care homes would be properly shielded which turned out to be totally wrong as infection rates there are running 4x higher than in the general population.

The care homes situation is criminal negligence imho, whether the policy was suppression or mitigation those people clearly needed to be protected, instead we did the opposite, that fuck up can't be blamed on the change in strategy, it was critical whichever approach they wanted to follow.

[Nick110581]

The care homes situation is criminal negligence imho, whether the policy was suppression or mitigation those people clearly needed to be protected, instead we did the opposite, that fuck up can't be blamed on the change in strategy, it was critical whichever approach they wanted to follow.

Also, the fact we allowed flights in for months from hotspots.  Plus the testing was poor.

I don't think they have got anything right in the whole process.

[dudleyred]

Also, the fact we allowed flights in for months from hotspots.  Plus the testing was poor.

I don't think they have got anything right in the whole process.

I agree

We had a huge advantage in as much as we’re an island and We’re still in an almighty mess

[filopastry]

57% of people in Bergamo tested positive for COVID antibodies, bad news for those theorising a large number of people may either have immunity to COVID-19, either through prior exposure to other coronaviruses or for other reasons, and also bad news for those hoping that significant numbers may fight the illness off without generating antibodies.

Pretty much confirming that in the UK we are nowhere near immunity levels that would significantly slow this disease down if we returned to normality, it was always a long-shot I suppose.

EDIT Actually I see the 57% may be somewhat misleading as there the population sampled was at more risk of catching COVID than a truly random population sample would be

[Zeb]

I agree

We had a huge advantage in as much as we’re an island and We’re still in an almighty mess

Even if we'd banned all travel in early March then we'd have still had around 10k British nationals returning home every single day just from Spain. Think Foreign Office were saying something like 2 million* people had been brought back from other countries as a result of the pandemic. Even now, with the quarantining government announced to quieten this, there are big exemptions for those who have to regularly come into the country for work.

edit: * - just checked, was 1.3 million by first week of April.

[Nick110581]

Even if we'd banned all travel in early March then we'd have still had around 10k British nationals returning home every single day just from Spain. Think Foreign Office were saying something like 2 million people had been brought back from other countries as a result of the pandemic. Even now, with the quarantining government announced to quieten this, there are big exemptions for those who have to regularly come into the country for work.

Then test at the airport?

[John Higgins]

I presume we were late because "mitigation" was the strategy before the UCL model scared the crap out of everyone and we moved to "suppression".

The UCL model was available on March 10th. It took Johnson 13 days from then to shut everything down. Criminal negligence.

[TSC]

Im slightly weary of such guesses personally, I think it was this guy who predicted 500,000 deaths before lockdown.
 

The report he authored estimated 250-500k deaths without invoking control measures.  By implementing control measures said report estimated deaths of between 20-25k.  Content of report was stark and subsequently government began to invoke control measures.  But the following applies;

Government ‘advised’ people to avoid pubs some days (maybe a week) after the report was published.  More stringent ‘lockdown’ measures were invoked circa 10days - 2weeks after the report was published, ie closure of schools, shops, pubs, etc.

Report also couldn’t account for the absence of sufficient PPE, or for the decision to transfer hospital patients into care homes. 

The delay and the PPE/care home issue may have played a big part into the difference between the estimated 20-25k deaths and the current total of 50-60k.

[Elmo!]

Then test at the airport?

And divert limited testing capacity from where? (Of course testing capacity should have been much better).

Meanwhile do you let the 1.3m people go home, or house that many people in the airport while you wait for tests to come back?

[12C]

As Dr Beaker says, Johnson won't take responsibility.

Hancock will be first out the door when the investigation starts.

The slimy scruff was trying to blame Starmer again for being negative. Johnson looked clueless.
“36% of Year six have gone back..” -fucking joke 

“I used the telephone”
Starmer “I know you have your planned attack lined but I’m not having that!”


All so that Johnson’s current partner could have a baby shower. Scumbags with money

[Mr Benn please?]

The UCL model was available on March 10th. It took Johnson 13 days from then to shut everything down. Criminal negligence.

During that time he was talking in press conferences about how he was shaking hands with people, saying it was ok to go to the pub and attending a rugby match. Essentially encouraging people to carry on as normal. When he should have been warning about the seriousness of the situation.  Also criminally negligent in my opinion.

[Thepooloflife]

Im slightly weary of such guesses personally, I think it was this guy who predicted 500,000 deaths before lockdown.
 

Yeah, but it's not just him.......Prof. John Edmonds on SAGE has been saying similar for a while.

[12C]

Fuckwit Johnson trying to smokescreen us with zoos and safari parks opening.

[Zeb]

16th March was the government beginning to try and shut down social life without lockdown (original plan?): https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/pm-statement-on-coronavirus-16-march-2020

[Tony19:6]

The report he authored estimated 250-500k deaths without invoking control measures.  By implementing control measures said report estimated deaths of between 20-25k.  Content of report was stark and subsequently government began to invoke control measures.  But the following applies;

Government ‘advised’ people to avoid pubs some days (maybe a week) after the report was published.  More stringent ‘lockdown’ measures were invoked circa 10days - 2weeks after the report was published, ie closure of schools, shops, pubs, etc.

Report also couldn’t account for the absence of sufficient PPE, or for the decision to transfer hospital patients into care homes. 

The delay and the PPE/care home issue may have played a big part into the difference between the estimated 20-25k deaths and the current total of 50-60k.

Fair enough, I just know he does have his critics (there was a Prof @ Edinburgh Uni for one, who states his track record of modelling epidemics was patchy at best). 
I think he cited his modelling of the foot and mouth outbreak a few years back as being severely flawed and not fit for purpose.

I didnt know there were that many Profs in the UK to be honest, all of whom seem to have a different opinion 


 

[TSC]

I recall same weekend when the Imperial report was issued was noted for the fact there were huge crowds gathering at tourist sites.  Johnson then gave a half hearted press conference on the Monday talking about how important it was that folk got outside to enjoy themselves, etc.

A calamity from the start.

[dudleyred]

And divert limited testing capacity from where? (Of course testing capacity should have been much better).

Meanwhile do you let the 1.3m people go home, or house that many people in the airport while you wait for tests to come back?

Personally I think you let nationals back only and they are forced to isolate at a named address like they are trying to enforce now

Letting travelers from all over the world continue to come into the UK was a terrible decision

You only need to see the results Australia and New Zealand have had acting decisively and quickly

Smaller scale being Isle of Man. I understand they’re free and clear now but if you leave the island you can’t go back at the moment generally speaking

[Macphisto80]

Heads need to roll for this. Politicians and scientists need pulling up on this big time.

Yeah, they do. I still maintain that those responsible need lined up and have a bullet put in them. No, I'm not joking either.

Will anything ever happen? Will it fuck. Keep calm and wash yer hands and all that shite. "Happy birthday to me, happy birthday to me..."

[Circa1892]

Fucking shambles this man.

Johnson must be the only leader other than Trump who a scientist feels the need to interrupt to stop him talking shit and costing lives.

[Macphisto80]

So long as you have absolute thick fuckwits in this world voting in privileged thick rich fuckwit clown scumbags like Johnson and Trump, nothing will change, and if anything, things are going to get worse. It's beyond incompetence at this point.

[TSC]

Fair enough, I just know he does have his critics (there was a Prof @ Edinburgh Uni for one, who states his track record of modelling epidemics was patchy at best). 
I think he cited his modelling of the foot and mouth outbreak a few years back as being severely flawed and not fit for purpose.

I didnt know there were that many Profs in the UK to be honest, all of whom seem to have a different opinion 


 

Yep there are quite a few Prof’s with opinions.  Ferguson of course was one of the primary advisers to Government following publication of the Imperial report, until he felt compelled to quit after having a visitor during lockdown.

Laura K just asked a question to the PM re Ferguson’s views today.   PM deferred to his scientific advisers to respond to that.  Both said effectively they didn’t have enough info at that stage (to lockdown a week earlier).

[TSC]

Oh dear he’s attempting to cut Laura K off.  She’s pressing him on the response to Ferguson’s views and he won’t add to views expressed by his advisers.

[Macphisto80]

I don't know how any of you can actually sit and listen to that c*nt.

I'd want to smash my first through the TV.

[TSC]

Sky ticker reporting 245 deaths in last 24 hours in all settings.  Bit higher than the ‘hospital’ deaths reported earlier of 88.

Reasonable (and challenging) questions for Johnson and co today.

[Sir Capon of Debaser]

Johnson there talking aboot Ferguson. Sounded to me when he said '' Ferguson will readily accept he was a member of sage at the time'' that if were going down mate,youre going down with us. Even smirked, the prick

[RK7]

How will people with kids survive till September without work or help from family members.

[TSC]

Whack-a-mole reference again.

[Sir Capon of Debaser]

How will people with kids survive till September without work or help from family members.

In a support bubble with great british common sense and the blitz spirit

[djahern]

Yep there are quite a few Prof’s with opinions.  Ferguson of course was one of the primary advisers to Government following publication of the Imperial report, until he felt compelled to quit after having a visitor during lockdown.

Laura K just asked a question to the PM re Ferguson’s views today.   PM deferred to his scientific advisers to respond to that.  Both said effectively they didn’t have enough info at that stage (to lockdown a week earlier).

It comes back to the surveillance testing that was put in place late Feb, early March. It wasn't adequate enough to give the accurate data required to really gauge transmission in the community and pinpoint the moment that lockdown interventions were needed. That surveillance testing needed to be far more widespread - I think they were doing various GP surgeries and hospitals at the time but I still believe they should have been doing truly random large scale population testing in the two biggest cities, London and Birmingham, to get a more accurate picture of what was currently happening. 

[Nick110581]

Johnson is a disaster. Equally as bad as Trump in my opinion.

He’s not a capable leader as he’s too egotistical. Only in it for popularity.

He won’t work hard enough at things and surrounded himself by a Cabinet of utter idiots.

[Wabaloolah]

Johnson is a disaster. Equally as bad as Trump in my opinion.

He’s not a capable leader as he’s too egotistical. Only in it for popularity.

He won’t work hard enough at things and surrounded himself by a Cabinet of utter idiots.

You won't see him until PMQs again as he's had an absolute grilling today and he's just blustered his way through with his usual umming and arring style.

He'll go back into hiding again now and let his minions take the flack

[ToneLa]

I tried to watch this one but I walked off five minutes into it as I was fuming.

I am just begging someone to pose a question like this:

"So, Prime Minsiter, please answer either "yes", or say ANYTHING else whatsoever to mean No: do you regret not locking down earlier?"

Why be so polite?

[Tony19:6]

Vallance just said 2 metres is not actually a rule then, its a risk based assessment...Has that always been the message ?

Sounds like they're gearing up to a message around relaxing this for restaurants/bars etc?