Poll

RAWK and Brexit

No Deal!
65 (8.8%)
Mays Deal!
14 (1.9%)
No Brexit!
539 (72.8%)
Don't Know
10 (1.4%)
Don't Care
15 (2%)
I don't live in the UK
97 (13.1%)

Total Members Voted: 740

Author Topic: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"  (Read 1440211 times)

Offline west_london_red

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24640 on: August 19, 2019, 08:04:56 pm »
What about citizens who have never and have no intention of getting a passport ?

I can’t help but think that if more people got passports earlier and used them we wouldn’t be in the situation we’re in now.
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Offline Alan_X

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24641 on: August 19, 2019, 08:08:55 pm »
Why must that be the conclusion, and not the more simpler and very much believable one that they're anti-immigration nutters who genuinely believe it's a good idea?

Priti Patel is a fucking nincompoop. The idea that she can think two steps ahead is laughable. These are genuinely horrible people.
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Offline Alan_X

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24642 on: August 19, 2019, 08:18:02 pm »
Don't most voters think there is too much immigration? That also includes Remain voters as well.

I don't know. What I do know is that most people have very little idea how much there actually is. A survey in 2016 showed that Leave voters thought about 20% of the population were non-UK EU Nationals. Remain voters guessed 10%. The actual figure was around 5%.

And areas with low immigration have the most negative view of immigration.

If you're asking 'are people hideously ill-informed and influenced by right-wing scare stories' my answer is yes.
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Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24643 on: August 19, 2019, 08:18:19 pm »
We do leave on Oct 31st unless our Parliament decides otherwise. am not certain if we could win any legal argument to rule any crash out by default as invalid but it's worth looking into it as we know Johnson tried to stop Parliament passing any legislation.
But that's not what Ghost Town (and I) are arguing. We wonder if Brexit will be legal if the Government circumvents Parliament to achieve this goal (even if it just winding down the clock). If Parliament runs out of time because Remain MPs simply fail to get their act together, that's one thing. But what if, for example, the Government (transparently) prorogues Parliament to rob it of the ability to instruct the PM to revoke Article 50?
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Offline Alan_X

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24644 on: August 19, 2019, 08:23:53 pm »
Because it harms their prospects of getting No Deal through.

Ending Freedom of Movement immediately and unilaterally effectively drives a coach and horses through the agreed Withdrawal Agreement.
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Offline Alan_X

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24645 on: August 19, 2019, 08:37:44 pm »
But that's not what Ghost Town (and I) are arguing. We wonder if Brexit will be legal if the Government circumvents Parliament to achieve this goal (even if it just winding down the clock). If Parliament runs out of time because Remain MPs simply fail to get their act together, that's one thing. But what if, for example, the Government (transparently) prorogues Parliament to rob it of the ability to instruct the PM to revoke Article 50?

That would be an ecumenical matter...

I would guess that the UK's internal squabbles would be irrelevant to the EU. The question of whether a Johnson Government can stop the UK revoking Article 50 when it was legitimately voted through by Parliament is moot. The 27 EU states have had their fill of the UK fannying around while they commit economic suicide. We will be out, legally, as far as the EU is concerned.

If I was one of the 27 I would suggest that the UK has had 3 years to sort this shit-show out and one more monumental cock-up after three years of monumental cock-ups is not their problem.
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Offline Machae

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24646 on: August 19, 2019, 08:42:46 pm »
Ending Freedom of Movement immediately and unilaterally effectively drives a coach and horses through the agreed Withdrawal Agreement.

They've got something better lined up. Its gonna be huge, huge I tell you.

Offline Red-Soldier

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24647 on: August 19, 2019, 08:48:45 pm »
The ‘immediate end to free movement’ news today is interesting.  There’s no need for it, it backtracks on a promise, would be immediately economically harmful, and there are Tory MPs for whom not doing it is a key issue.  The conclusion must be that it’s a deliberate provocation to make sure No Deal gets blocked, without the government getting the blame?

I think it's just bluster to give them a boost in the upcoming GE.

The rabid foreigner haters will love it!!

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24648 on: August 19, 2019, 09:12:15 pm »
I don't know. What I do know is that most people have very little idea how much there actually is. A survey in 2016 showed that Leave voters thought about 20% of the population were non-UK EU Nationals. Remain voters guessed 10%. The actual figure was around 5%.

And areas with low immigration have the most negative view of immigration.

If you're asking 'are people hideously ill-informed and influenced by right-wing scare stories' my answer is yes.

Well considering that the vast majority of the public are as thick as pig shit, or racist, or both, then that answer is not surprising.


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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24649 on: August 19, 2019, 09:20:59 pm »
Well considering that the vast majority of the public are as thick as pig shit, or racist, or both, then that answer is not surprising.


What utter crap.
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Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24650 on: August 19, 2019, 11:10:37 pm »
That would be an ecumenical matter...
I like the Father Ted reference there. :)
Quote
I would guess that the UK's internal squabbles would be irrelevant to the EU. The question of whether a Johnson Government can stop the UK revoking Article 50 when it was legitimately voted through by Parliament is moot. The 27 EU states have had their fill of the UK fannying around while they commit economic suicide. We will be out, legally, as far as the EU is concerned.
But, the 'illegal' decision would occur while the UK is still a member of the EU, so would not EU law apply?
Quote
If I was one of the 27 I would suggest that the UK has had 3 years to sort this shit-show out and one more monumental cock-up after three years of monumental cock-ups is not their problem.
And that would be understandable. But not really relevant to the point am I am (probably poorly) trying to make here.
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Offline stevo7

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24651 on: August 19, 2019, 11:31:38 pm »
Never liked Mark Walters

Offline Zeb

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24652 on: August 19, 2019, 11:58:36 pm »
If it helps with the Article 50 constitutional requirements discussion, this is how the CJEU's Advocate General summed up where the constitutional requirements fit into Article 50. (From the House of Commons' Library Briefing paper, written by Sylvia de Mars, senior lecturer on EU law up at Newcastle).

Quote
Finally, the A[dvocate] G[eneral] stressed that a different condition of Article 50 TEU here has significant effects: as Member States can withdraw from the EU as long as they do so in line with their domestic constitutional requirements, this implies that a violation of domestic constitutional requirements could result in a notification of withdrawal needing to be annulled (para 104). A reference here can clearly be made to the Miller judgment: had the UK Government given notice without putting a bill before Parliament, this would have been in violation of the conditions set out in Article 50(2), and the Supreme Court’s ruling in Miller should have resulted in the UK withdrawing its notice to withdraw. This, according to the AG, made it clear that unilateral revocation of withdrawal was at least in some contexts possible. The same would happen if the notice to withdraw was filed on a correct constitutional basis, but that basis was later overturned— by, for instance, a referendum or a ‘meaningful vote’ or an election— which would again require a Member State to withdraw its Article 50 TEU notice (para 105) or would, in the alternative, force a Member State out of the EU when it no longer wished to leave (para 111).

Quote
[Paragraphs] 146 and 147 suggested that while a Member State cannot be asked to explain why it changed its mind, it is subject to a time limit: revocation of notification to withdraw must be issued within the two year negotiation period that was started by Article 50 TEU or before a withdrawal agreement was formally concluded, as by that point the notification ‘had already taken full effect’.

It's the process which leads to the notification which is important and, having done that properly, out is out if we run out of time before revoking. 

edited: got Sylvia de Mars job title wrong.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2019, 01:09:52 am by Zeb »
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Offline oldfordie

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24653 on: August 20, 2019, 12:25:30 am »
If it helps with the Article 50 constitutional requirements discussion, this is how the CJEU's Advocate General summed up where the constitutional requirements fit into Article 50. (From the House of Commons' Library Briefing paper, written by Sylvia de Mars, senior lecturer on EU law up at Newcastle).

It's the process which leads to the notification which is important and, having done that properly, out is out if we run out of time before revoking. 

edited: got Sylvia de Mars job title wrong.

according to the AG, made it clear that unilateral revocation of withdrawal was at least in some contexts possible. The same would happen if the notice to withdraw was filed on a correct constitutional basis, but that basis was later overturned— by, for instance, a referendum or a ‘meaningful vote’ or an election— which would again require a Member State to withdraw its Article 50 TEU notice (para 105) or would, in the alternative, force a Member State out of the EU when it no longer wished to leave (para 111).
Am confused, have I got this right, the AG is saying another referendum would over turn the triggering of ART 50? the referendum was advisory so has no legality in the UK parliamentary legal procedure.I would rather hear the opinion of the EU on this.
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
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Offline Zeb

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24654 on: August 20, 2019, 12:33:32 am »
Am confused, have I got this right, the AG is saying another referendum would over turn the triggering of ART 50? the referendum was advisory so has no legality in the UK parliamentary legal procedure.I would rather hear the opinion of the EU on this.

It's just an example to show that countries can change their mind even after having made the notification. Our constitutional order is that Parliament authorises something to happen and the PM then does it. The 'meaningful vote' example is us really.

That's the person who advises the EU judges on how to rule on EU law saying that, although they don't have to take his advice they used it in big chunks to decide we could revoke without needing the EU's permission.
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And your money will have bought you nothing."

Offline oldfordie

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24655 on: August 20, 2019, 12:39:10 am »
It's just an example to show that countries can change their mind even after having made the notification. Our constitutional order is that Parliament authorises something to happen and the PM then does it. The 'meaningful vote' example is us really.

That's the person who advises the EU judges on how to rule on EU law saying that, although they don't have to take his advice they used it in big chunks to decide we could revoke without needing the EU's permission.
Thanks, didn't know Cox advised the EU judges on EU law.would have thought it was the other way round.
So where does that leave us when it comes to the PM refusing to carry out the instructions of parliament by refusing to ask the EU for a extension.
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
               Emily Maitlis

Offline Zeb

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24656 on: August 20, 2019, 12:52:09 am »
Thanks, didn't know Cox advised the EU judges on EU law.would have thought it was the other way round.
So where does that leave us when it comes to the PM refusing to carry out the instructions of parliament by refusing to ask the EU for a extension.

Just clocked that the AG in the quoted text is ambiguous. It's not our Attorney General! Going to read it in his voice though now! The European Court has 11 neutral experts, called Advocates General, who look over cases and then give an opinion which the judges can take or leave as they please. In this case the judges took lots of it and used it in their judgement which is why it's relevant - at least in terms of a view from the EU.

Not sure there's an answer to Johnson refusing to seek an extension but to change the government? Assuming changing the law hasn't worked.
"And the voices of the standing Kop still whispering in the wind will salute the wee Scots redman and he will still walk on.
And your money will have bought you nothing."

Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24657 on: August 20, 2019, 12:56:46 am »
Quote
.@SenSchumer - the most senior Democrat in the US Senate says he will oppose any US / UK trade deal that “undermines the Good Friday Agreement or facilitates the return of a hard border.”

https://twitter.com/DarranMarshall/status/1163565078282670080




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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24658 on: August 20, 2019, 01:08:47 am »
At least there are some grown ups left

Offline oldfordie

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24659 on: August 20, 2019, 01:14:15 am »
Just clocked that the AG in the quoted text is ambiguous. It's not our Attorney General! Going to read it in his voice though now! The European Court has 11 neutral experts, called Advocates General, who look over cases and then give an opinion which the judges can take or leave as they please. In this case the judges took lots of it and used it in their judgement which is why it's relevant - at least in terms of a view from the EU.

Not sure there's an answer to Johnson refusing to seek an extension but to change the government? Assuming changing the law hasn't worked.
Wondering what our AG was doing advising EU judges on EU law, :)
Am not sure how we stand if Johnson refuses to obey Parliament either but I think MPs have to prepare for any trick Johnson may pull while we have time, be silly to leave it till Sept.
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
               Emily Maitlis

Offline Zeb

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24660 on: August 20, 2019, 01:32:31 am »
Wondering what our AG was doing advising EU judges on EU law, :)
Am not sure how we stand if Johnson refuses to obey Parliament either but I think MPs have to prepare for any trick Johnson may pull while we have time, be silly to leave it till Sept.

Reading the whole thing to music from Pirates of Penzance now. ;)

Will ask about legal recourse with Johnson. That's where Jo Maugham's case fits into things, I suspect. Although David Allen Green was saying on Remainiacs today that the courts really don't want to be involved in making decisions on behalf of politicians. And essentially this a political problem and not a legal one.
"And the voices of the standing Kop still whispering in the wind will salute the wee Scots redman and he will still walk on.
And your money will have bought you nothing."

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24661 on: August 20, 2019, 01:45:52 am »
I don't know. What I do know is that most people have very little idea how much there actually is. A survey in 2016 showed that Leave voters thought about 20% of the population were non-UK EU Nationals. Remain voters guessed 10%. The actual figure was around 5%.

And areas with low immigration have the most negative view of immigration.

If you're asking 'are people hideously ill-informed and influenced by right-wing scare stories' my answer is yes.

True in most places I think.  Very true in Australia.

Offline oldfordie

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24662 on: August 20, 2019, 01:54:00 am »
Reading the whole thing to music from Pirates of Penzance now. ;)

Will ask about legal recourse with Johnson. That's where Jo Maugham's case fits into things, I suspect. Although David Allen Green was saying on Remainiacs today that the courts really don't want to be involved in making decisions on behalf of politicians. And essentially this a political problem and not a legal one.
Am sure family guys singing along with you now,, I am the very model of a modern major general,  :)
I can't see how it can't be a legal problem if we leave when Parliament has voted to ask for a further extension. it probably won't happen anyway, more about being prepared for all eventualities.
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
               Emily Maitlis

Offline Zeb

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24663 on: August 20, 2019, 03:03:42 am »
Am sure family guys singing along with you now,, I am the very model of a modern major general,  :)
I can't see how it can't be a legal problem if we leave when Parliament has voted to ask for a further extension. it probably won't happen anyway, more about being prepared for all eventualities.

Send them all off on tour may be the right plan. Promise to let them on tv once in a while to wave a flag.

Think the political problem is that we're assuming the PM would break domestic law to do this, assuming Parliament legislates to make it the case. Solution is to remove the PM before it happens rather than taking him to court after he's done it to complain, isn't it?
"And the voices of the standing Kop still whispering in the wind will salute the wee Scots redman and he will still walk on.
And your money will have bought you nothing."

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24664 on: August 20, 2019, 06:34:06 am »
Well considering that the vast majority of the public are as thick as pig shit, or racist, or both, then that answer is not surprising.


I think you often get a rough ride on here. Comments like that don't help your case though.
"All the lads have been talking about is walking out in front of the Kop, with 40,000 singing 'You'll Never Walk Alone'," Collins told BBC Radio Solent. "All the money in the world couldn't buy that feeling," he added.

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24665 on: August 20, 2019, 06:35:32 am »
Reading the whole thing to music from Pirates of Penzance now. ;)


This whole thread should be read with the Benny hill theme playing.
"All the lads have been talking about is walking out in front of the Kop, with 40,000 singing 'You'll Never Walk Alone'," Collins told BBC Radio Solent. "All the money in the world couldn't buy that feeling," he added.

Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24666 on: August 20, 2019, 11:23:48 am »
If it helps with the Article 50 constitutional requirements discussion, this is how the CJEU's Advocate General summed up where the constitutional requirements fit into Article 50. (From the House of Commons' Library Briefing paper, written by Sylvia de Mars, senior lecturer on EU law up at Newcastle).

[...]

It's the process which leads to the notification which is important and, having done that properly, out is out if we run out of time before revoking. 

edited: got Sylvia de Mars job title wrong.
Thank you for efforts to explain the situation, Zeb. I am still less than 100% convinced, but that might be a failure of me to understand. I guess it will all come out in the wash if indeed Johnson attempts to usurp the will of Parliament.
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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24667 on: August 20, 2019, 01:14:02 pm »
James O'Brien. caller who thinks the EU are at fault over the NI border.
Amazing how many people can talk so much s,, while thinking they are making a intelligent argument.
https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/james-obrien-brexit-top-10-epic-row-irish-border/
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
               Emily Maitlis

Offline redmark

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24668 on: August 20, 2019, 01:39:13 pm »
Jeremy Vine:
Pensioner today on my show: “We will get through a no-deal Brexit like we did in the war, by growing our own food.”
Second caller responds: “You can't grow medicines on an allotment.”
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Offline eddymunster

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24669 on: August 20, 2019, 01:49:40 pm »
Jeremy Vine:
Pensioner today on my show: “We will get through a no-deal Brexit like we did in the war, by growing our own food.”
Second caller responds: “You can't grow medicines on an allotment.”

Yes but why? I'm pretty sure wartime was pretty fucking grim.

And who's growing my food? I live in a fifth floor flat, pretty sure my landlord won't appreciate a vegetable patch in the spare room.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2019, 01:51:22 pm by eddymunster »
Brexit (n) - "The undefined being negotiated by the unprepared in order to get the unspecified for the uninformed."

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24670 on: August 20, 2019, 01:50:22 pm »
If there were only a simple way of separating these morons so they can live like they did during the war, or some nostalgic version of when Britain ruled the world

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24671 on: August 20, 2019, 02:00:23 pm »
I think you often get a rough ride on here. Comments like that don't help your case though.

Obviously not a majority of the population but certainly the majority of Brexit voters would tick at least one of those boxes & a good proportion would tick both.
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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24672 on: August 20, 2019, 02:06:15 pm »
Jeremy Vine:
Pensioner today on my show: “We will get through a no-deal Brexit like we did in the war, by growing our own food.”

Aside from the idiocy of such statement, the UK Population in '45 was 48.67 million but it's now just over 67 million.

I don't expect the caller offered any suggestions as to how those extra 18 million will get fed?
I don't do polite so fuck yoursalf with your stupid accusations...

Right you fuckwit I will show you why you are talking out of your fat arse...

Mutton Geoff (Obviously a real nice guy)

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24673 on: August 20, 2019, 02:11:04 pm »
James O'Brien. caller who thinks the EU are at fault over the NI border.
Amazing how many people can talk so much s,, while thinking they are making a intelligent argument.
https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/james-obrien-brexit-top-10-epic-row-irish-border/

It's actually quite frightening the amount of delusional wishful thinking going on in the minds of much of the public, that somehow a magical thing will happen and with no deleterious consequences, yet with no satisfactory explanation forthcoming as to exactly how.

It's evident in that caller.

It actually worries me, this level of delusional optimism in the face of the evidence and the willfull ignoring of facts such as the consequences to the GFI as there is a problem with delusions in that when the fantasies don't turn to reality, those who are suffering from them feel betrayed.

There is rarely self introspection and self recognition that they have been deluding themselves so it will always be someone else's fault, and I expect that feeling will even be encouraged by those who seek mischief.

And this being a mass delusion, and aside from the economic problems of this Brexit, the social problems as a result could be immense and it will likely be the far right that benefit the most.

I don't do polite so fuck yoursalf with your stupid accusations...

Right you fuckwit I will show you why you are talking out of your fat arse...

Mutton Geoff (Obviously a real nice guy)

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24674 on: August 20, 2019, 03:19:26 pm »
It's actually quite frightening the amount of delusional wishful thinking going on in the minds of much of the public, that somehow a magical thing will happen and with no deleterious consequences, yet with no satisfactory explanation forthcoming as to exactly how.

It's evident in that caller.

It actually worries me, this level of delusional optimism in the face of the evidence and the willfull ignoring of facts such as the consequences to the GFI as there is a problem with delusions in that when the fantasies don't turn to reality, those who are suffering from them feel betrayed.

There is rarely self introspection and self recognition that they have been deluding themselves so it will always be someone else's fault, and I expect that feeling will even be encouraged by those who seek mischief.

And this being a mass delusion, and aside from the economic problems of this Brexit, the social problems as a result could be immense and it will likely be the far right that benefit the most.
Ive been shocked over the last few yrs, it's changed my whole opinion on the average Tory voter. watching Johnson talk absolute rubbish while they smile and clap him is gobsmacking sometimes, were not talking opinions, he is telling them outrageous lies and they think he's making a sound argument, he is insulting their intelligence but they are so clueless he gets away with it.
The James O'Brien caller is still stuck in 2016, some sort of technology without having a clue on the purpose of this technology, if anyone can invent technology capable of doing physical checks to stop smuggling then the whole world would love to hear from them, every country in the world would be lining up to buy this technology, does he think countries love all the bureaucracy, all the long delays checking trucks etc, every country would love to have free flowing borders but it's impossible as no technology exists to replace physical checks.
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24675 on: August 20, 2019, 03:23:42 pm »
There is a serious issue behind that caller’s point-of-view, if you can get past the idiocy, which is that we have parts of our society for whom digging for victory or hunting rabbits doesn’t immediately sound like a massive decline in living standards.

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24676 on: August 20, 2019, 03:26:04 pm »
There is a serious issue behind that caller’s point-of-view, if you can get past the idiocy, which is that we have parts of our society for whom digging for victory or hunting rabbits doesn’t immediately sound like a massive decline in living standards.
You don't think that's just bluster and rhetoric?

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24677 on: August 20, 2019, 03:47:30 pm »
You don't think that's just bluster and rhetoric?
Oh probably, I suppose.  Just because I’d feel stupid saying it doesn’t mean everybody would.  You’d think I’d know by now not to expect anyone to behave to any sort of standard whatsoever.

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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24678 on: August 20, 2019, 04:13:22 pm »
The British government could solve the issue of a hard border in a flash by having a hard border in the North Sea.


Why don’t they do that¿
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Re: Brexit Magic Flying Rainbow coloured Unicorn jolly tip-top-ho! Gosh! Thread.
« Reply #24679 on: August 20, 2019, 04:24:12 pm »
The British government could solve the issue of a hard border in a flash by having a hard border in the North Sea.


Why don’t they do that¿

Or just do us all a favour & cancel brexit?
Brexit (n) - "The undefined being negotiated by the unprepared in order to get the unspecified for the uninformed."