Topic: Chasing the Title

[ScouserAtHeart]

I'd "settle" for the European Cup

[nico 8]

As you probably know football was invented in 1992,the same year the the Champions league was invented. The thing I’m trying to say is that it’s better to be champions of your own country regularly,than a lottery of filthy rich wannabes. We have won it the old format and the new.

It is all relative and depends on your most recent success or failings. The players themselves probably place higher value on the Champs league.What would Celtic give to win Champs League?

[PhaseOfPlay]

It is all relative and depends on your most recent success or failings. The players themselves probably place higher value on the Champs league.What would Celtic give to win Champs League?

They'd give more to win 10 leagues in a row

[Something Worse]

They'd give more to win 10 leagues in a row

Really? To overtake Rangers?

[Wingman]

If you win the league over a 38 game season - you are the best side in the country. You’re not necessarily the best team in Europe if you win the Champions League. I love the European Cup, 1984 and 2005 being two of the most memorable nights of my life, in fact I still vividly remember 1985, 2007 and last year. But if we could pick a trophy this year then it has to be the league

[Barneylfc∗]

Really? To overtake Rangers?

Celtic won 9 in a row first

[deano2727]

I feel as a club, we are blessed in Europe. We can reach the latter stages/finals of European competitions a couple of times in a decade.

We challenge for the league much less and have never won it in my lifetime and I’m a month shy of 26.

League for me every time. If we don’t win it this year, it would take number 6 just to console me.

[SteveZissou]

To those of you debating, if we lose to Porto, Spurs and draw to Southampton, the value of both these tournaments will increase for Liverpool

Which one is valued more? The league is your wife and the UCL is that 18yo model that wants you. Both are highly valued, but according to the Bible we should go for the league

[spider-neil]

If you win the league over a 38 game season - you are the best side in the country. You’re not necessarily the best team in Europe if you win the Champions League. I love the European Cup, 1984 and 2005 being two of the most memorable nights of my life, in fact I still vividly remember 1985, 2007 and last year. But if we could pick a trophy this year then it has to be the league

If you win the CL you're the best side in Europe IN that competition. If we'd won the CL last season we would have done so by beating City (League Champions) in that competition.

[nico 8]

They'd give more to win 10 leagues in a row

They could win 15 in a row and yet wouldn’t register in world football if they continue to struggle to make it to the group stage of the Champs League. VVD left Celtic to join Southampton. Mere stepping stones. As I said, it is all relative. You want what you haven’t achieved. I guess the test would be:- 3 League titles + 5 Champs league Cups vs 5 League titles + 3 Champs League Cups.
I guess most would lean towards the latter.

[ThePoolMan]

Being Liverpool means that two competitions stand above everything else - the Champions League/European Cup and the Premiership/First Division championship. Being champions of Europe and champions of England. it is against the spirit and fibre of what Liverpool FC stands for to give up fighting for one of those competitions in favour of the other. In other words, we have to go all out to try to win both. In fact it was the defeatism of Hodgson towards the Premiership mid table sides and the defeatism of Rodgers towards Real Madrid in the CL that convinced me that they were not the proper material to be Liverpool manager.

[pathetic]

Being Liverpool means that two competitions stand above everything else - the Champions League/European Cup and the Premiership/First Division championship. Being champions of Europe and champions of England. it is against the spirit and fibre of what Liverpool FC stands for to give up fighting for one of those competitions in favour of the other. In other words, we have to go all out to try to win both. In fact it was the defeatism of Hodgson towards the Premiership mid table sides and the defeatism of Rodgers towards Real Madrid in the CL that convinced me that they were not the proper material to be Liverpool manager.

Agree completely regarding Rodgers. That was the final nail in the coffin for me. Playing a second team against Real Madrid was humiliating. The less said about Hodgson the better. Of course I want us to win both, but if I had to choose I would take the league over the CL any day of the week. We will always be a though nut to crack in Europe, especially with this team. Not so sure things will go our way to the same extent in the league next year again. Thankfully we have a fairly easy draw against Porto.

[vinothmct]

We have the team capable to win both. Win against spurs and play to our potential in the rest of the games we are winning both.

Crucial time for me now. *Touchwood* I expect city to start dropping points. 

[LFCEmpire]

The international break is killing me softly 

[deano2727]

We have the team capable to win both. Win against spurs and play to our potential in the rest of the games we are winning both.

Crucial time for me now. *Touchwood* I expect city to start dropping points.

There is more chance we drop points over the next 3. We have to forget about them over the next few weeks and get an absolute minimum of 7 from 9 points. Do that, or better and we can hope they drop points in their games against United , spurs , Burnley , Leicester and Brighton. We still have a few massive hurdles to get over ourselves, let’s not forget. Spurs , Southampton and Chelsea is difficult.

[lionel_messias]

The opportunity to win the league title is there and is massively important for the club. It would redefine Klopp and set up the club for a great phase in the next 5 years in my view. Plus, for the older fans and young ones, the opportunity to see Liverpool as Champions of England outweighs the Champions League this season.
I think anyway.

This sequence of 3-4 games in the league is now our time. We have to keep the full pressure on City before they hit Spurs, Palace, Spurs, Spurs, United.

Spurs and United in the league after so many fixtures is where I see the juice for dropped points.

For the Champions League, go and beat Porto, and then you never know, if we face Barcelona you just have to enjoy the tie really.

[Crimson_Tank]

The international break is killing me softly 

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/8ppz-cwLeqo" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/8ppz-cwLeqo</a>

[LFCEmpire]

Cheers mate, exactly what I needed! 

[PhaseOfPlay]

They could win 15 in a row and yet wouldn’t register in world football if they continue to struggle to make it to the group stage of the Champs League. VVD left Celtic to join Southampton. Mere stepping stones. As I said, it is all relative. You want what you haven’t achieved. I guess the test would be:- 3 League titles + 5 Champs league Cups vs 5 League titles + 3 Champs League Cups.
I guess most would lean towards the latter.

It doesn't matter to Celtic fans. They want to win 10 in a row to top Rangers 9 in a row.

[PhaseOfPlay]

Really? To overtake Rangers?

Yep. Reading their forums now and then when Rodgers was there, when it came to Europe, a lot of them seemed to be of the opinion that they would sacrifice Europe and the cups in order to overtake Rangers. I think a portion of their ire towards Rodgers now (apart from the timing of his leaving and the manner of it) is that they knew that with him, 10 in a row was almost guaranteed. The wheels seem to be coming off the Celtic players performances since Lennon came in, and I suspect they're getting antsy that 10 in a row won't happen.

Now, if they either achieve 10 in a row, or they fail and have to start again, I suspect their attitudes might change. But right now, I reckon most Celtic supporters value the league over the Champions League.

[nico 8]

It doesn't matter to Celtic fans. They want to win 10 in a row to top Rangers 9 in a row.

I get that and the same applies to most rivalries of the smaller leagues ( Portugal, Greece) as they simply cannot compete on 2 fronts. It isn’t how we think though- we are desperate to win the league and Europe is part of our DNA.

[PhaseOfPlay]

I get that and the same applies to most rivalries of the smaller leagues ( Portugal, Greece) as they simply cannot compete on 2 fronts. It isn’t how we think though- we are desperate to win the league and Europe is part of our DNA.

I'd take the league over the Champions League in a heartbeat. I've seen us win 7 of them and I'd like us to win #19 and get that albatross from around our necks. And I'd like Klopp to be the man to do it. So it's the league for me.

[Barneylfc∗]

It doesn't matter to Celtic fans. They want to win 10 in a row to top Rangers 9 in a row.

And their own 9 in a row.

[Scouser-Tommy]

It shows how much the team has improved in a short period of time with people debating in March what they would prefer to potentially win this season out of the league title and the European cup.

We haven't won any silverware for far too long, so let's hope we end up with one or both trophies at the end of the season!

[PhaseOfPlay]

And their own 9 in a row.

Fair point.

[Perham]

And their own 9 in a row.

Celtic were already the first to win 9 in a row under Jock Stein from 1964/65 to 1973/74.

[bornandbRED]

Yep. Reading their forums now and then when Rodgers was there, when it came to Europe, a lot of them seemed to be of the opinion that they would sacrifice Europe and the cups in order to overtake Rangers. I think a portion of their ire towards Rodgers now (apart from the timing of his leaving and the manner of it) is that they knew that with him, 10 in a row was almost guaranteed. The wheels seem to be coming off the Celtic players performances since Lennon came in, and I suspect they're getting antsy that 10 in a row won't happen.

Now, if they either achieve 10 in a row, or they fail and have to start again, I suspect their attitudes might change. But right now, I reckon most Celtic supporters value the league over the Champions League.

Probably because they knew being in Europe was ultimately futile and there was a 1%< chance of winning either European competition. If you somehow guaranteed them a CL trophy instead of ten in a row, I suspect they'd bite your hands off for the CL.

[Crimson_Tank]

Cheers mate, exactly what I needed! 

 

[PhaseOfPlay]

Probably because they knew being in Europe was ultimately futile and there was a 1%< chance of winning either European competition. If you somehow guaranteed them a CL trophy instead of ten in a row, I suspect they'd bite your hands off for the CL.

I don't know. I know a shit load of Celtic fans, and overtaking Rangers seems to be their raison d'etre right now. I suspect they know they won't get a better chance to do so in the future.

[nico 8]

I'd take the league over the Champions League in a heartbeat. I've seen us win 7 of them and I'd like us to win #19 and get that albatross from around our necks. And I'd like Klopp to be the man to do it. So it's the league for me.

Agreed. Dominate our own league and there is no doubt that we would be extremely competitive in Europe. League domination over 38 games trumps cup tournaments.

[v2krules]

CL is 1000 times better than PL and in my Opinion the truest quality measure of a team

A PL is more like who is consistent enough to crush the small teams.It is never a measure of the true quality of a team but more like the quality of a squad. United and Arsenal are prime examples. United throughout the 90s and Arsenal early 2000s (to some extent Chelsea  under Rom and City lately) have had very good squads which were consistently good at crushing bad and smaller teams. In the same time these teams have performed averagely in the CL. Every time they have come across a bigger team of equal quality, they have found it extremely challenging as the the team needs to be of high quality both squad quality as well as mental fortitude and the manager must be tactically astute.

That's why managers like Ferguson and Wenger (and a Non-Barcelona Pep) are highly overrated as they are very good at beating small teams with their superior attacking quality and always stumbled in Europe due to their poor tactical flexibility and intelligence when it comes to playing against equally good or better teams..

Managers like Paisley, Ancelotti, Sacchi, Del Bosque, Mourinho (even Benitez and Emery) are better managers than Sir Alex and Wenger as they have the tactical nous to play and win against the very best teams across Europe. So in my opinion winning a CL is much much harder than winning a PL.

A PL winning team = Biggest spending team (a team that stacks quality all through the squad) with an attacking manager who crushes small teams.
A CL winning team = Highest quality team that has a tactically astute manager who can beat the very best teams.

[RyanBabel19]

CL is 1000 times better than PL and in my Opinion the truest quality of a team

A PL is more like who is consistent enough to crush the small teams.It is never a measure of the true quality of a team but more like the quality of a squad. United and Arsenal are prime examples. United throughout the 90s and Arsenal early 2000s (to some extent Chelsea  under Rom and City lately) have had very good squads which were consistently good at crushing bad and smaller teams. In the same time these teams have performed averagely in the CL. Every time they have come across a bigger team of equal quality, they have found it extremely challenging as the the team needs to be of high quality both squad quality as well as mental fortitude and the manager must be tactically astute.

That's why managers like Ferguson and Wenger (and a Non-Barcelona Pep) are highly overrated as they are very good at beating small teams with their superior attacking quality and always stumbled in Europe due to their poor tactical flexibility and intelligence when it comes to playing against equally good or better teams..

Managers like Paisley, Ancelotti, Sacchi, Del Bosque, Mourinho (even Benitez and Emery) are better managers than Sir Alex and Wenger as they have the tactical nous to play and win against the very best teams across Europe. So in my opinion winning a CL is much much harder than winning a PL.

A PL winning team = Biggest spending team (a team that stacks quality all through the squad) with an attacking manager who crushes small teams.
A CL winning team = Highest quality team that has a tactically astute manager who can beat the very best teams.

Can't say I agree with that at all. You put all this effort into talking about the greatness of winning the champions league... then name Benitez and Emery as superior to Ferguson on the basis of that... a man that won it more times than the two of them put together

[bornandbRED]

For me it's the league; mainly because it's been so long. The release and joy from finally getting over the line would be immense.

Although the double is entirely possible. Imagine we did it? The scenes would be absolutely unprecedented.   

[v2krules]

Can't say I agree with that at all. You put all this effort into talking about the greatness of winning the champions league... then name Benitez and Emery as superior to Ferguson on the basis of that... a man that won it more times than the two of them put together

LOL - Ferguson has to be the most overrated manager in the CL



Fergie -
20 years - (United PL winning squads)
Only 2 CL (two last minute goals after tactically outplayed for a good 80 mins and one Penalty shootout win)
2 Final appearence (in all European Competition, thrashed in both)
Group Stage or R16 exit to poorer teams  - 6 times


In my opinion Sir Alex was tactically THE MOST OVERRATED manager who got regularly found out in Europe can never be considered a European great no matter how many times he won the PL title beating bang average team. Wenger was very similar to Ferguson, only with lesser money so lesser PL titles (regularly made top 4 to be crushed by equal teams in CL). Both champions of crushing small teams bang average managers in Europe.

Putting in context
Benitez - 7 years, 1CL, 1 Final, only 1 R16 exit to a poorer team, Won 2 EL titles
Emery - 3 years in 3EL Titles beating better teams and 2 year in CL with PSG (Barca, Madrid R16) lost to better teams

 

[deFacto please, you bastards]

So are you saying Emery is a better manager than Ferguson?

[Barneylfc∗]

LOL - Ferguson has to be the most overrated manager in the CL



Fergie -
20 years - (United PL winning squads)
Only 2 CL (two last minute goals after tactically outplayed for a good 80 mins and one Penalty shootout win)
2 Final appearence (in all European Competition)
Group Stage or R16 exit to poorer teams  - 6 times


In my opinion Sir Alex was tactically THE MOST OVERRATED manager who got regularly found out in Europe can never be considered a European great no matter how many times he won the PL title beating bang average team. Wenger was very similar to Ferguson, only with lesser money so lesser PL titles (regularly made top 4 to be crushed by equal teams in CL). Both champions of crushing small teams bang average managers in Europe.

Putting in context
Benitez - 7 years, 1CL, 1 Final, only 1 R16 exit to a poorer team, Won 2 EL titles
Emery - 3 years in 3EL Titles beating better teams and 2 year in CL with PSG (Barca, Madrid R16) lost to better teams

I'm no fan of Ferguson, but this is one of the worst posts I've ever seen. Not only is it factually incorrect, it's just absolutely fucking bizarre to even try to claim Benitez or Emery are anywhere close to Ferguson never mind better than him.

[v2krules]

So are you saying Emery is a better manager than Ferguson?

I am saying Emery has shown better promise in Europe than Ferguson did in all his career.

[the_red_pill]

I'd take the league over the Champions League in a heartbeat. I've seen us win 7 of them and I'd like us to win #19 and get that albatross from around our necks. And I'd like Klopp to be the man to do it. So it's the league for me.

Agree mate. For me? I'd take the league over the CL in most seasons- certainly 100% this season.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

I am saying Emery has shown better promise in Europe than Ferguson did in all his career.

By winning more UEFA Cups? Ferguson has 2 European Cups/CL trophies, which are vastly superior to all of the UEFA Cups that Emery has shown. You can say that Ferguson under-performed considering his tenure at United and that perhaps he should had won more, having said that he also took United to 3 finals in 4/5 years, he did play against one of the best sides in history [barcelona] on 2 out of the occasions he lost.

But comparing what Emery has done to Ferguson imo is nonsense.

[the_red_pill]

I am saying Emery has shown better promise in Europe than Ferguson did in all his career.

I think that's the key here mate- "Promise".

Emery could die tomorrow and that will be all that remains- "Promise".

The fact remains- and we're interested in facts only- Ferguson's (and I don't like the c*nt, but I'm going to be honest) not been great in the CL, but he's at least won 2- something Emery's yet to do.

In a few years, we may most definitely say he's the greatest, but at the moment- he hasn't even won it once to provide us with a basis to work with.