Author Topic: FSG discussion thread  (Read 320321 times)

Offline Dave McCoy

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6840 on: November 25, 2022, 01:07:34 am »
The more I think about it the more I'd say a decent solution would be the Pension Funds buy it. Granted it would drive the net spend freaks insane as there would never be any money put in per se but maximizing revenue to drive dividends to pay the people isn't the worst thing. Honestly might be the best thing. For the people, right?

Offline eddiedingle

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6841 on: November 25, 2022, 01:14:19 am »
Simon Jordan says United are a far more attractive proposition to buy apparently Even if Old Trafford is a decaying dump?

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6842 on: November 25, 2022, 01:17:05 am »
You're kind of proving my point though. Nothing has changed since H&G except we got lucky in that FSG weren't as bad. Boycott, protest, burn shit down, whatever but ultimately change is only going to happen when those in power or those we elect to be in power do something. And honestly there is so much wrong in the world that deserve those things that for me at least LFC having shitty owners isn't really high up on the list. That doesn't mean I want MbS rocking up to Anfield, just I can only handle so much awfulness and need my outlet somewhere.

Just because we can't win doesn't mean we don't try, mate. It's not Hillsborough, but that is the precedent.
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Offline Samie

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6843 on: November 25, 2022, 01:20:15 am »
Simon Jordan says United are a far more attractive proposition to buy apparently Even if Old Trafford is a decaying dump?

They probably are to be honest but anyone who buys them will have to spend an awful lot upgrading their stadium. They also want to move to a new training facility.

Our situation doesn't need for us to move training facilities nor update the stadium too much.

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6844 on: November 25, 2022, 01:20:56 am »
Simon Jordan says United are a far more attractive proposition to buy apparently Even if Old Trafford is a decaying dump?

Wouldn't surprise me. For all the dysfunction and the crappy infrastructure, if you're going to spend billions on a footie club, what's a few extra billion overhauling said infrastructure, spread over a number of years? That kind of expenditure isn't counted towards FFP (lol) and just ingratiates you with the fans who see you as resolving their problems.
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Offline Black Bull Nova

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6845 on: November 25, 2022, 01:35:32 am »
Itís just funny how people on here keep threatening to stop supporting the club because they have some owners they donít like. Itís all attention seeking nonsense


No it's not, it's real. Maybe you see the world differently, that will determine your response, some people see the world differently to you.
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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6846 on: November 25, 2022, 01:43:30 am »
Generally, your elected official? Why hold elections otherwise? At the end of the day what we're talking about is governance of the sport as a whole. Getting active over one potential buyer doesn't really change that dynamic and it seems odd for a lot of the fans of this club to seemingly have already forgot that considering it's recent past.
Your post talked about elected officials shirking their duty. In that situation, I'm just wondering who you believe should take a stand if you say it's not the responsibility of supporters?

Offline Black Bull Nova

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6847 on: November 25, 2022, 01:44:28 am »
True. They own a large chunk of Sainsburyís, something like a quarter of Heathrow airport, own Harrods outright and significant chunks of property in the prime parts of London.

Itís their money that creates a huge inflow into the coffers of our government too - good old arm sales and the like.

If memory serves me correctly I believe they also built the USA embassy in London too?

They are loved by UK politicians from Labour and Conservatives, as well as our royalty.


It's 41 years since I heard these lyrics and little has changed, what it means is that people lose sight of the certainties they grew up with and fall into 3 camps, 1-become uncomfortable and react, 2-become uncomfortable and remain numb, 3-don't bother. I assume you are in group 3 and think everyone who expresses any other view is in group 2.


What has happened is that in the last 20 years, America has changed from a producer to a consumer. And all consumers know that when the producer names the tune, the consumer has got to danceT hat's the way it is. We used to be a producer - very inflexible at that, and now we are consumers and, finding it difficult to understand. Natural resources and minerals will change your world. The Arabs used to be in the 3rd World, They have bought the 2nd World and put a firm down payment on the 1st one. Controlling your resources we'll control your world. This country has been surprised by the way the world looks now
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Offline mattD

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6848 on: November 25, 2022, 01:46:15 am »
Itís just funny how people on here keep threatening to stop supporting the club because they have some owners they donít like.  Itís all attention seeking nonsense - we all know that none of them would walk away from the club, it is too much a part of their life.


If you care about the club and its values, then you care about the owners and their values. While the two don't have to be in perfect harmony, there has to be some compatibility there. I get that sense from the people of Liverpool who seem good judges of what's wrong and what's right, and that's the culture that makes the club unique. I speak as a Scot with no connection to the city personally.

If the two aren't compatible then it's an easy decision to make to walk away from football. If you don't understand that, you don't understand Liverpool.

Offline Dave McCoy

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6849 on: November 25, 2022, 01:53:32 am »
Just because we can't win doesn't mean we don't try, mate. It's not Hillsborough, but that is the precedent.

Nobody said anything about not trying. Just I'd say at a minimum expecting your elected official to represent your views is probably the only avenue of real change happening.

Offline Dave McCoy

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6850 on: November 25, 2022, 01:55:31 am »
Your post talked about elected officials shirking their duty. In that situation, I'm just wondering who you believe should take a stand if you say it's not the responsibility of supporters?

Why should that elected official get your vote again then? Should all the LFC fans in Liverpool be electing MP's that push for reform or just electing anybody and then wondering why nothing changes? Unions work because they wield political power through advocacy of the group, not because they do nothing.

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6851 on: November 25, 2022, 02:03:50 am »
I saw the earlier interview but now just seen the below. There would have to be some interest for either us or united for them to answer these questions. They donít as far as I know answer anything they donít want to and to do it twice? Thereís no coincidence here.

https://youtu.be/SkbCJ62iUaA

Offline Son of Spion

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6852 on: November 25, 2022, 03:00:26 am »
Itís just funny how people on here keep threatening to stop supporting the club because they have some owners they donít like.  Itís all attention seeking nonsense - we all know that none of them would walk away from the club, it is too much a part of their life.

Worst still we know itís all virtue signalling - people on here saying such things reek of hypocrisy. Throwing around words like sportswashing, like they even have a clue about whatís going on in the world.  Somehow trying to feel superior.

It was only at the start of the millennium that the UK armed forces even allowed openly gay people to be in its services - where were these people then with their protests of human rights ? 

If people genuinely feel that resentful of human rights abuses to the point they would stop supporting a club ingrained in their DNA, I would expect that passionate defence of human rights to exist in most basic aspects of their lives but they donít. 

The problem with people in the main is they jump on bandwagons with a very shallow understanding. Remember green fell, clap for the NHS etc. People soon forgot once the media stopped talking about it.  It gets tedious to keep seeing the virtue signalling and melodramatic actions of posters in response.

Iím sure people on here will twist my words, thatís just what forums do, but spend 2 mins now researching where Nike replica shirts come from, and then come back and talk to me about how passionate you really all are about human rights.

All BS and only being mentioned because the media have spoon fed you to say it.

No, mate. People aren't threatening anything. They are simply recognising where they draw their personal lines, then saying so. I've been a Red for 60 years now. You could say it's in my blood. But the game, like the world itself, has changed so much. In daily life I've cut out things and people that jar with my personal values. I know where my boundaries are. I'm not suggesting my boundaries are any more or less virtuous than yours or anyone else's. I'm just saying that I know where mine are and others know where theirs are. Plenty, particularly old school, would walk away if we are bought out by a sportswasher. You might not, and that's your choice, but many would, and that's their choice too.

I'm lucky, I've got my memories. I was there in the 70s and 80s and experienced a great club with great teams conquer at home and abroad in otherwise very dark times in this country. Maybe you did too, as I don't know your age? Memories of being on the Spion Kop against St. Etienne, Barcelona, Borussia MG etc will keep me warm at night until I pop my clogs. Maybe I've had my time. It was always important back then, but times change. The world changes and football has changed. It used to be a game, but now it's more about money than sport. Banter is more about the owners' bank balances rather than trophies these days. For a lot of us, that leaves a bitter taste.

I know Reds who called it a day long ago. Lifelong local Reds whose lives were built around the club. The Sky / Soccer AM generation saw a lot of them bin it off. These are people whose DNA has LFC running through it like a stick of rock. So I'm pretty sure that any incoming sportswasher would see plenty of others finally call it a day too. As I said, we all have our boundaries. We just reach them in different places and for different reasons.

You mention the homophobia ingrained in British culture and the armed forces. I agree completely. Even this country is only just crawling out of the swamp itself. More and more people are becoming more enlightened and more understanding of the diversity of humanity though, and this is why we see more protest at abhorrent discrimination than we used to. Humanity in general has a very long way to go, but lets not jump on those strong enough to crawl out of the swamp and who try to make life better for others too by highlighting injustice.

In my experience, those who raise their voices against injustice do tend to do so in other areas of their lives too. Once you realise that we are all just human beings, regardless of sexuality, colour, race or whatever, it's hard not to see each other as deserving of equal rights. It turns my stomach seeing any human being exploited. The problem is we are all being exploited and used by the system we live under. My dad was basically worked to death by the system in this country, and I hate it. We are all exploited and ripped off. We are all used and abused to some extent. We cannot escape it. All we can do is pick our battles. The ones we can influence. The things where we still have choices we can act upon.

Problem is, we are all forced to be complicit, one way or another. Because the world itself is not run ethically, the population cannot actually live 100% ethically either. We all have to buy what producers put out. Capitalism means businesses will always exploit workers, so no matter what we buy there will have been exploitation somewhere along the line in most cases. Then, the whataboutery merchants point the finger and say if you don't shout about X and Y, you can't shout about Z. That's complete bollocks of course, because you can believe in human decency and equality without also having to fight the entire world on your own. So, people pick battles that are the closest to their hearts at the time. Human rights and sportswashing are in everyone's face just now, hence the reaction to it we are seeing today.

Nike (insert any other brand too) replica shirts? Yep, disgusting exploitation of those making them and also those having to pay £100 if they want to buy one. The exploitation of people is the issue here. Exploitation of not only the workers, but the consumer too. We are all being screwed senseless, one way or another. This is why people make stands. Just because individuals don't have the time and energy to protest against every issue that matters does not mean they should not stand against the issues most pressing for them at any given time.

The world is totally fucked, but your stance pretty much suggests that if you are not standing against everything, you can't stand against anything, because doing so makes you a hypocrite.

You mentioned Grenfell and the NHS. Yes, the public in general does move on. Thing is though, those affected by what happened are still affected to this day and will be throughout their lives. It's the same for those at Hillsborough and their loved ones. It's the same for the traumatised NHS workers who were in the front line against Covid. I personally know a few, and I know how it still affects them and how it's changed them. So yes, the public at large move on, but those involved find it much harder to do so. Should the Grenfell survivors just shut up and stop 'virtue signalling'? How about the Hillsborough families? Maybe the nurses who gave their all through Covid then got pissed on afterwards by the government? No, they stand for what matters to them, and although football might be trivial in comparison, many of us fans will also stand for what we believe in with regard to our club. Bandwagon jumpers on any cause will come and go, but others will always stand up for what they value, regardless.

Melodramatic? People invest a lot of themselves in their club. With that investment comes emotion. What you call melodrama is simply a manifestation of that investment and that emotion, in the face of turbulent and uncertain times for the club and the game people love.

One thing you don't see too much of on RAWK is spoon-fed media shite being spouted by posters. Despite it being an internet forum, I'd say there is a really high concentration of people on here who can and do think for themselves. If anything, what you see on here is usually the very opposite of spoon-fed media bullshit. A criticism of RAWK from outsiders is that we generally go right against that particular grain.

« Last Edit: November 25, 2022, 03:27:59 am by Son of Spion »
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Offline 4pool

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6853 on: November 25, 2022, 03:31:16 am »
Well said SoS.
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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6854 on: November 25, 2022, 03:38:32 am »
He thinks he can still make a profit after spending £4b on a football club.

He will.

Also Ďwe donít need to buy any midfieldersí
Yes we have a £4bn business but we let the Goofy German guy make all the decisions.

Constantly wondering how some people get away with things like this.

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6855 on: November 25, 2022, 03:41:40 am »
What a load of rubbish, you really believe fans on here wanting the owners to spend a bit more in the transfer market is forcing the owners out, I very much doubt John Henry and Tom Warner have been on rawk lately talk about hysteria.

They hire people to read this thread and they have close personal friends and former LFC employees who report to them and post regularly on this thread
Yes we have a £4bn business but we let the Goofy German guy make all the decisions.

Constantly wondering how some people get away with things like this.

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6856 on: November 25, 2022, 04:26:33 am »
You keep going on about city in all your posts, you sure youíre not a manc?

Stop calling people mancs. Thereís a stickies thread from around 2009 why this is not done. Read some RAWK thanks.
Yes we have a £4bn business but we let the Goofy German guy make all the decisions.

Constantly wondering how some people get away with things like this.

Offline daggerdoo

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6857 on: November 25, 2022, 05:25:10 am »
Great post SoS

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6858 on: November 25, 2022, 07:04:15 am »
Simon Jordan says United are a far more attractive proposition to buy apparently Even if Old Trafford is a decaying dump?

We only just surpassed them in revenue after a huge level of success and them being shit for almost a decade. Once/if they get their house in order, they can surpass us in revenue once again.

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6859 on: November 25, 2022, 07:17:21 am »
We only just surpassed them in revenue after a huge level of success and them being shit for almost a decade. Once/if they get their house in order, they can surpass us in revenue once again.


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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6860 on: November 25, 2022, 07:30:46 am »
It's already kind of absurd to support and feel connected to spoilt multi millionaire-fascist supporting players. Nobody became a LFC supporter due to the owners, so how many would actually leave? Saudis taking over Liverpool would not be the end for me, realistically, but it would be a huge blow. It would still be the same Klopp and the same players. But when Klopp leaves and is replaced by some slick boot licker? I dunno, it's just gonna be really hard to care.

Saudis taking over football clubs is not the biggest problem in the world of course, far from. But it's a lot easier to not support a saudi-owned club than buying clothes or electronics that have been produced ethically.

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6861 on: November 25, 2022, 07:46:12 am »
I'm adding to my "early call" from a few weeks ago saying we won't be sold for 5 years. Neither us nor the mancs will have any Saudi money in them once it's all said and done
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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6862 on: November 25, 2022, 07:50:41 am »
Without wanting to generalise, I think people from the City, myself included, will be the ones more likely to stop following the club in the event of a Saudi takeover.

To me, growing up, the club was the core commonality I shared with most of my community, Blues included. It was a talking piece, something that was always brought up and very much was a shared passion. We owned part of the club in a way, because it was the way it fed into developing those relationships by giving us communal moments of joy, by giving people a shared experience and something to be proud of outside of the usual petty stuff. It felt growing up to me that the club was the city because thatís all I really cared about.

After Istanbul, I remember coming back to see family that weekend and speaking to their neighbours about the incredible win. The warmth, the friendliness that this club has inspired in people by giving us all moments of sheer indescribable joy, of the community it helps to build is all taken away and marred if we get the wrong owners. Call me selectively moral but I cannot abide sportswashing owners because our meaning to them is as a tool and we will be enabling corruption and a hidden toxicity that is completely at odds with how I perceive the club and all those around me who follow as I do.

Weíre not connected to Ďmillionaire footballers,í weíre connected to our folk heroes, to the players who represent us, who sometimes get us as a fanbase and in rare, precious occasions, are us.

I will be stepping back from Liverpool FC if it does occur and that will be hugely painful, but I wonít be able to enjoy it or look at it without criticising and feeling bitter about the ownership. Liverpool will always remain some of the best memories of my life, I will always have that and I hope to still support them for the rest of my life of course. 
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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6863 on: November 25, 2022, 08:03:56 am »
If you care about the club and its values, then you care about the owners and their values. While the two don't have to be in perfect harmony, there has to be some compatibility there. I get that sense from the people of Liverpool who seem good judges of what's wrong and what's right, and that's the culture that makes the club unique. I speak as a Scot with no connection to the city personally.

If the two aren't compatible then it's an easy decision to make to walk away from football. If you don't understand that, you don't understand Liverpool.
Hard disagree on that one, unfortunately, and I suspect it's the same for many others.

Offline DaveLFC

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6864 on: November 25, 2022, 08:13:44 am »
itís a bit mad that people who say they are Liverpool fans still donít think they should have a voice politically, whether you like it or not - they are linked, more so in cities like Liverpool than anywhere.   I just canít fathom supporting LFC and tuning out politically.

One of the problems today is too much political influence in almost everything, with no escape, no respite. Honestly it wears you down, I am all for a good fight but even fights have breaks.

As for new owners, I totally respect any fans who make their own decision for their own conscience, I donít respect those that impose their views on others, isnít that what these states are mainly guilty of in the first place.

Calm heads are to be called for, arguing about what might be happening when thereís certainly more mileage in this situation, is daft. I think we all want the cleanest owners we can get, that will help us to challenge at the top against the teams that bear no monetary consequences to their actions. We have won everything itís possible for us to win this century, and without a drop of sports washed money. That is something I am immensely proud of.

Nobody has the right to question how you support this club and donít let anyone tell you they have. Nobody has the right to tell you how you and your conscience should deal with new owners, so donít let them tell you that either. Life is a series of compromises that we make constantly, you should ensure that you have all the relevant facts before making big compromises and be sure you are making the right decision for you.
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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6865 on: November 25, 2022, 08:14:34 am »
It won't be that easy for me personally to walk away from the club. Granted I'm not as passionate as I used to be, it's still a huge part of me to support Liverpool wherever I am and catch up on the latest news. But if the club resorts to shady tactics like City then that's it for me, and I will find it very easy to walk away from that point.

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6866 on: November 25, 2022, 08:21:51 am »
......

What a brilliant, if sadly very true, post. Every word resonates with me. Haven't read a better summary of all this, anywhere.
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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6867 on: November 25, 2022, 08:52:30 am »
What SoS says. Spot on.

Ive already walked away. I pay more attention to QoTS scores now. This is more about the EPL than LFC specifically. Football isnt the same game I grew up loving anymore. The lower leagues offer me more (esp as low as the one QoTS are in). Todays EPL is a corrupt farce run by crooks for people blinded to the harsh realities by a shiney trophy paid for by the blood and misery of others.

I'd sooner see LFC relegated than conform to the current trend of vile ownership.
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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6868 on: November 25, 2022, 08:54:51 am »
I'd love to think that you would all fight for our club and not just walk away.
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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6869 on: November 25, 2022, 09:00:40 am »
They hire people to read this thread and they have close personal friends and former LFC employees who report to them and post regularly on this thread


Of course they do mate, Iíve heard the FBI and CIA are also keeping a close eye.

Offline Solomon Grundy

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6870 on: November 25, 2022, 09:01:13 am »
I feel the club is going to need to nip all this uncertainty in the bud by the time the season resumes. We can't have all this hanging around in the background.

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6871 on: November 25, 2022, 09:03:29 am »
I feel the club is going to need to nip all this uncertainty in the bud by the time the season resumes. We can't have all this hanging around in the background.

But that won't be up to them, though? If a good enough bid doesn't materialize, there's not much they can do.
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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6872 on: November 25, 2022, 09:03:41 am »
I feel the club is going to need to nip all this uncertainty in the bud by the time the season resumes. We can't have all this hanging around in the background.

Nothing beats sorting that out than the results improving. Its not short term issues this brings but long term ones. It says in the article we want someone externally to replace Ward but we havent had a club doctor for ages so maybe we get a sporting director in 2026.

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6873 on: November 25, 2022, 09:11:24 am »
Canít shake the feeling that FSG suddenly looking to sell and the departures of key officials is all a reaction to a poor start to the season, and jumping ship before a big rebuild is required that they donít fancy being a part of.

Doesnít make you feel hopeful, and I just hope this feeling doesnít filter down to the players.

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6874 on: November 25, 2022, 09:21:43 am »
Canít shake the feeling that FSG suddenly looking to sell and the departures of key officials is all a reaction to a poor start to the season, and jumping ship before a big rebuild is required that they donít fancy being a part of.

Doesnít make you feel hopeful, and I just hope this feeling doesnít filter down to the players.

I would hope that with FSG at least there wouldn't be this level of reaction to that - you don't sell a multi billion dollar business over a poor 3 months. Whatever there reason I imagine goes further back.

With Ward and the like, I am not sure, but again it their feeling is they can't deal with a rebuild, then it is good for them to leave because they aren't right for the job.

I don't think any of this is good news, and it has to be dealt with very quickly because you don't want this hanging over the club, but I do not believe it is due to a poor start necessarily

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6875 on: November 25, 2022, 09:21:51 am »
I'd love to think that you would all fight for our club and not just walk away.

Like I said in the Manc thread, I'd fight, I fucking fought to get rid of H&G when I had a new baby born the same day I was pounding out emails, but the Saudis are a different beast. Money is no object, so they can't be hit in the pockets. Protest in the ground? They cancel your ST and ban you for life, if they want us for their long term financial plans, the 55,000 in the ground mean nothing to them compared to the TV money and the sales around the world.
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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6876 on: November 25, 2022, 09:33:37 am »
SoS absolutely nailed it mate 👏👏👏👏

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6877 on: November 25, 2022, 09:42:04 am »
Canít shake the feeling that FSG suddenly looking to sell and the departures of key officials is all a reaction to a poor start to the season, and jumping ship before a big rebuild is required that they donít fancy being a part of.

Doesnít make you feel hopeful, and I just hope this feeling doesnít filter down to the players.

Everyone's entitled to an opinion but its a pretty absurd one. Imagine being a director of football or whatever Wards title is and going 'Shit we're 8 points off 3rd place after 14 games, with a game in hand, and still in every competition....best hand my notice in'. Its ridiculous. As is thinking FSG would be triggered to sell because they dont want to fund a rebuild, considering the 'rebuild' is more like signing two or three players. There's clearly far bigger things going on, whether they've just decided its a good time to sell, whether they're all collectively sick at the sportswashing (or have had their heads turned by the prospect of selling to one), whether they're wanting to buy an NBA or NFL team and can't realistically 'afford' both.
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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6878 on: November 25, 2022, 09:45:21 am »
Canít shake the feeling that FSG suddenly looking to sell and the departures of key officials is all a reaction to a poor start to the season, and jumping ship before a big rebuild is required that they donít fancy being a part of.

Doesnít make you feel hopeful, and I just hope this feeling doesnít filter down to the players.

There is no way FSG operates at this level of nearsightedness. This has probably been a foregone conclusion since the ESL was stopped.

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Re: FSG discussion thread
« Reply #6879 on: November 25, 2022, 09:46:46 am »
Everyone's entitled to an opinion but its a pretty absurd one. Imagine being a director of football or whatever Wards title is and going 'Shit we're 8 points off 3rd place after 14 games, with a game in hand, and still in every competition....best hand my notice in'. Its ridiculous. As is thinking FSG would be triggered to sell because they dont want to fund a rebuild, considering the 'rebuild' is more like signing two or three players. There's clearly far bigger things going on, whether they've just decided its a good time to sell, whether they're all collectively sick at the sportswashing (or have had their heads turned by the prospect of selling to one), whether they're wanting to buy an NBA or NFL team and can't realistically 'afford' both.

i agree with this, itís got fuck all to do with relatively low level events, Le Bron finishing his career and running an NBA team or FSG getting into the NFL is far more likely the reason for them to cash out, the lack of application of FFP and the breakdown of the ESL was probably the clincher