Topic: Injury (and absence) related chat (so the news is kept in the other thread)

[JasonF]

The number of training ground injuries we've had this season is shocking. Injuries are part and parcel of the game and any player can get injured in a match but losing so many in training is something that shouldn't be happening.

I don't remember too many to be honest. Díaz was a funny one, it was a match injury that he recovered from and then possibly got an injury to a different ligament (unconfirmed) during his recovery. Jones may have been done in training, seems likely but a stress fracture can occur any time. Firmino was subbed off after an hour against Milan but good chance his injury was in training.

Ibou was injured in a game. Jota was injured in a game. Virg was injured in a game. Milner was injured in a game.

Keita, Arthur, Jones, Firmino. Maybe Díaz if you're looking to be extra critical. I don't think it's an obscene amount of training ground injuries to be honest. Two of those four players are clearly pre disposed to injuries too given their history.

[MonsLibpool]

I don't remember too many to be honest. Díaz was a funny one, it was a match injury that he recovered from and then possibly got an injury to a different ligament (unconfirmed) during his recovery. Jones may have been done in training, seems likely but a stress fracture can occur any time. Firmino was subbed off after an hour against Milan but good chance his injury was in training.

Ibou was injured in a game. Jota was injured in a game. Virg was injured in a game. Milner was injured in a game.

Keita, Arthur, Jones, Firmino. Maybe Díaz if you're looking to be extra critical. I don't think it's an obscene amount of training ground injuries to be honest. Two of those four players are clearly pre disposed to injuries too given their history.

It's a lot because most of the players that got injured were/are out for a long period of time. It's one thing to have the odd training accident but 3-4 long-term training injuries when we're not even halfway through the season is too much and that's if we don't include the occasional "niggle" that has made some players miss a game or two.

[SamLad]

plus ... how many times has a player been injured, gone back into training, then disappeared with a recurrence of (we assume coz the information is scant at best) the same injury?  or a new one?

at this point, every time we're told a player will be out for X period of time, the first reaction on here and elsewhere is rolling eyes and "yeah, right --double it". I can't remember the last time a player came back early from any kind of injury.

[JasonF]

It's a lot because most of the players that got injured were/are out for a long period of time. It's one thing to have the odd training accident but 3-4 long-term training injuries when we're not even halfway through the season is too much and that's if we don't include the occasional "niggle" that has made some players miss a game or two.

In the context of playing every possible match last season, on the back of Euro 21 the summer before that season started and with AFCON halfway through that season, followed by a shortened pre-season, condensed league season, World Cup etc. I don't think 4 training injuries, 2 to players with a history of muscle injuries, Jones who's had a freak injury and Firmino who's injury is supposedly minor is a "shocking" amount of training injuries. Sounds like hyperbole to me.

We've been very unfortunate, especially with Díaz and Jota (both injured in games) being injured at the same time. I think it's natural to try and find someone to blame but the training thing is being overblown. As for players taking longer than expected to return, we've had people moaning saying Díaz and Jones must have been rushed back. You can't win.

Núñez is probably fine. We had the same last week with Keïta. The sky isn't always falling.

[killer-heels]

In the context of playing every possible match last season, on the back of Euro 21 the summer before that season started and with AFCON halfway through that season, followed by a shortened pre-season, condensed league season, World Cup etc. I don't think 4 training injuries, 2 to players with a history of muscle injuries, Jones who's had a freak injury and Firmino who's injury is supposedly minor is a "shocking" amount of training injuries. Sounds like hyperbole to me.

We've been very unfortunate, especially with Díaz and Jota (both injured in games) being injured at the same time. I think it's natural to try and find someone to blame but the training thing is being overblown. As for players taking longer than expected to return, we've had people moaning saying Díaz and Jones must have been rushed back. You can't win.

Núñez is probably fine. We had the same last week with Keïta. The sky isn't always falling.

I mean, it probably is falling especially this season.

[jillcwhomever]

In the context of playing every possible match last season, on the back of Euro 21 the summer before that season started and with AFCON halfway through that season, followed by a shortened pre-season, condensed league season, World Cup etc. I don't think 4 training injuries, 2 to players with a history of muscle injuries, Jones who's had a freak injury and Firmino who's injury is supposedly minor is a "shocking" amount of training injuries. Sounds like hyperbole to me.

We've been very unfortunate, especially with Díaz and Jota (both injured in games) being injured at the same time. I think it's natural to try and find someone to blame but the training thing is being overblown. As for players taking longer than expected to return, we've had people moaning saying Díaz and Jones must have been rushed back. You can't win.

Núñez is probably fine. We had the same last week with Keïta. The sky isn't always falling.

Exactly.

[Fromola]

So this guy that everyone is having a go at, he was the same person who got the players through a title, a Champions League win and other competitions and now all of a sudden he's working them too hard. Of course, it couldn't have anything to do with the fact that we haven't renewed the squad enough could it? Just as long as people can point the finger at one person. It's pathetic.

I think the issue would be that it's a lot of the same players a few years on and it's the accumulated effect, particularly those tipping into their 30s. Not been enough renewal and those we have brought in are getting injured.

Very simplistic to blame individuals. I think it's more collective than that. Too much of a revolving door with the medical staff since 2020.

[Egyptian36]

In the context of playing every possible match last season, on the back of Euro 21 the summer before that season started and with AFCON halfway through that season, followed by a shortened pre-season, condensed league season, World Cup etc. I don't think 4 training injuries, 2 to players with a history of muscle injuries, Jones who's had a freak injury and Firmino who's injury is supposedly minor is a "shocking" amount of training injuries. Sounds like hyperbole to me.

We've been very unfortunate, especially with Díaz and Jota (both injured in games) being injured at the same time. I think it's natural to try and find someone to blame but the training thing is being overblown. As for players taking longer than expected to return, we've had people moaning saying Díaz and Jones must have been rushed back. You can't win.

Núñez is probably fine. We had the same last week with Keïta. The sky isn't always falling.

It is not only one player to be bad luck. There is a pattern.
Players cleared to train only to be injured again without even playing a game. Diaz, Jones, Jota , Konate and I am sure I am forgetting others.

Diaz injury especially should be alarming.

[MonsLibpool]

In the context of playing every possible match last season, on the back of Euro 21 the summer before that season started and with AFCON halfway through that season, followed by a shortened pre-season, condensed league season, World Cup etc. I don't think 4 training injuries, 2 to players with a history of muscle injuries, Jones who's had a freak injury and Firmino who's injury is supposedly minor is a "shocking" amount of training injuries. Sounds like hyperbole to me.

We've been very unfortunate, especially with Díaz and Jota (both injured in games) being injured at the same time. I think it's natural to try and find someone to blame but the training thing is being overblown. As for players taking longer than expected to return, we've had people moaning saying Díaz and Jones must have been rushed back. You can't win.

Núñez is probably fine. We had the same last week with Keïta. The sky isn't always falling.

1. Bobby was a rotation option in 2022 and he used to get two weeks off whenever Brazil played. He also got a month off during the World Cup.
2. Arthur played the equivalent of 17 games last season (if you divide his total minutes by 90) yet he's here for a week or two and is out for 4/5 months.
3. For Naby, you shouldn't be losing players for 3/4 months in training
4. Diaz was fit when he resumed training and he had a month off during the World Cup.
5. There are other cases where players missed the odd game because of a knock sustained in training.

Something is really wrong somewhere.

[El Lobo]

No-one has actually said what his injury is though...right? Like he could have been overplayed and got a muscle strain, he could have had a fight with Ben Doak, he could have caught his foot in an ironing board.

[Absinthe]

Jurgen confirmed Bobby is not back training and Darwin has been out with injury, so a doubt for tomorrow.

[RedBec1993]

Jurgen confirmed Bobby is not back training and Darwin has been out with injury, so a doubt for tomorrow.

Said he still has a chance of training with us today but if he can’t he won’t play tomorrow.

[slaphead]

Said he still has a chance of training with us today but if he can’t he won’t play tomorrow.

Bobby or Nunez ?

[tubby]

Bobby or Nunez ?

Nunez.

[RedBec1993]

Bobby or Nunez ?

Nunez.

Bobby still hasn’t trained at all.

[Wool]

1. Bobby was a rotation option in 2022 and he used to get two weeks off whenever Brazil played. He also got a month off during the World Cup.
2. Arthur played the equivalent of 17 games last season (if you divide his total minutes by 90) yet he's here for a week or two and is out for 4/5 months.
3. For Naby, you shouldn't be losing players for 3/4 months in training
4. Diaz was fit when he resumed training and he had a month off during the World Cup.
5. There are other cases where players missed the odd game because of a knock sustained in training.

Something is really wrong somewhere.

Not just that but often when players pick up “minor” injuries or are meant to only miss a single game etc they end up completely disappearing. See: Milner, Jones, and Firmino this season. It’s a growing trend so either we’re lying about the severity at the start or there’s something very wrong behind the scenes and mistakes are being made somewhere.

[slaphead]

Nunez.

Bobby still hasn’t trained at all.

Cheers pal

[Absinthe]

Bobby "not close to team training". 

[DelTrotter]

Firmino goes from "a couple of games" out on December 23rd, out for 10 days - 2 weeks originally according to Jurgen, now he's not close to team training after feeling something again. Shambolic.

[disgraced cake]

Bobby "not close to team training". 

What a lovely press conference. Must be Friday the 13th or something ...

[cdav]

Firmino goes from "a couple of games" out on December 23rd, out for 10 days - 2 weeks originally according to Jurgen, now he's not close to team training after feeling something again. Shambolic.

I'm never sure what this means- did he feel something during his recovery sessions?

[Absinthe]

I'm never sure what this means- did he feel something during his recovery sessions?

That was my interpretation of his comments, yeah.

[robertobaggio37]

Klopp on Firmino: "At first it was estimated 10-14 days out. Then Bobby felt something again to prolong it. He's not close to team training."

[tubby]

Would be absolute madness to extend Firmino's contract.

[newterp]

Does it make sense to resign Firmino (my favorite player) - he's missed a lot of the last couple of seasons with injuries.

[killer-heels]

Would be absolute madness to extend Firmino's contract.

Yep. Give him a massive 2 day party and wish him well onto his next club.

[El Lobo]

Yep. Give him a massive 2 day party and wish him well onto his next club.

Get Arthur to plan it

[Caston]

James Pearce says it's a hamstring injury. Another muscle injury.

https://theathletic.com/4087783/2023/01/13/nunez-klopp-doubt-brighton-liverpool/?source=twitteruk

[killer-heels]

James Pearce says it's a hamstring injury. Another muscle injury.

https://theathletic.com/4087783/2023/01/13/nunez-klopp-doubt-brighton-liverpool/?source=twitteruk

Those unlikely to be a week off then?

[newterp]

Those unlikely to be a week off then?

He will definitely not be risked tomorrow. Or probably at Wolves.

[Funky_Gibbons]

James Pearce says it's a hamstring injury. Another muscle injury.

https://theathletic.com/4087783/2023/01/13/nunez-klopp-doubt-brighton-liverpool/?source=twitteruk

Never good to see a pacey forward with a hamstring injury. 

[Ultimate Bromance]

We're so cooked

[SamLad]

anyone who now thinks our players are not being overworked in training, is living in cloud cuckoo land.

[AlphaDelta]

I think we're entitled to ask what the hell is going on behind the scenes to cause all these injuries, I used to think it was pure bad luck or coincidence, but the pattern is the same over and over, muscle injury, out longer than anticipated. Jota, Diaz, Bobby and now Nunez.

[MonsLibpool]

anyone who now thinks our players are not being overworked in training, is living in cloud cuckoo land.

Either our sports science team aren't doing their job or they are getting ignored.

[A-Bomb]

Anybody have a comprehensive list of our injuries and expected length of absence?

[decosabute]

Would be absolute madness to extend Firmino's contract.

Love the guy and had previously thought that a cut price extension would be fine just to have him around the place and be a squad player. But having practically never had an injury up until 18 months ago, he's now had at least three, maybe four since. Unless he's willing to accept peanuts, then it's not looking like a good idea to keep him.

[Absinthe]

It can only be time for...

[killer-heels]

Anybody have a comprehensive list of our injuries and expected length of absence?

Nunez - fuck knows
Bobby - fuck knows
Jota - Feb (mid feb)
Van Dijk - Feb (mid to late Feb)
Diaz - March

[MH41]

anyone who now thinks our players are not being overworked in training, is living in cloud cuckoo land.

Footballers are overworked, and it’s only going to get worse.

Athletes wouldn’t/couldn’t run 50/60 races in a year, and be expected to be in ‘peak’ form and condition (and they don’t have to twist, turn, jump, kick, run in different directions, accelerate, decelerate, take kicks, pushes etc). We played in every single game there was possible last year.

I made my thoughts clear about some of our pre season running (particularly the 500s at paces that I can comfortably run in my early 50s) where it might not be the best way to condition a player for the demands of football, but it sure could fatigue you (unnecessarily) and impact recovery and the quality of subsequent sessions.

I also remember the bizarre posts that Henderson (and a few of the players) put up on social media about the ‘recovery sessions’ in the pool after games, at 2.30am!!! Again I can’t find a reason why that needs to be done at 2.30am, as opposed to aiding recovery by good quality sleep (this is so, so important) at that time of day (unless they had the next day ‘off’ and could sleep afterwards?)

These may be all fine issues and margins, but can accumulate to leave the players not conditioned properly for the demands of playing at the intensity required, and not recovered enough for the body to manage the workload of training and games.

On a slightly related note, this is why I don’t agree anymore with the saying ‘that’s our midfield sorted out for the next 10 years etc’ with signings of young players, such as Bellingham. In my opinion, players won’t last that long anymore, particularly in England, as the demands on their body far outweigh the body’s capacity to recover sufficiently. (and Bellingham has already played a lot of football for someone his age!)