Author Topic: FA Cup: Wolves 2 v Liverpool 1 Jimenez ‘37 Neves ‘55 Origi ‘50  (Read 50131 times)

Offline Shaved Crossbar

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Re: FA Cup: Wolves 2 v Liverpool 1 Jimenez ‘37 Neves ‘55 Origi ‘50
« Reply #960 on: January 8, 2019, 12:05:47 pm »
There's a glance over his shoulder, when he's expecting Hoever to go to the ball (further away, but quicker and an angle to push the player wider), then realises he's 16, isn't going and tries to do so himself. Not blaming Milner (or Hoever) for that. Horrible ball from Moreno in the first place, poor touch by Milner, but all a result of general misshapen dysfunction at that point.

I've watched it a few times now, I see Milner glance at Hoever just after the ball crosses the halfway line - Hoever's 10 yards from Milner and another 10 from the ball, so imo James should have been treating it as a 2 on 1 rather than assuming he'd get help. When the ball's about halfway into our half, the runner starts to try and block James off, imo Milner should be shading between runner and ball, ready to attack the ball once it nears the box. By the time it's in our third, Milner should be ignoring the runner and moving to the ball at all costs imo, with Migs hopefully ready to come out and smother any pass Jimenez makes. When it does near the box, Hoever is vaguely in the picture, he should also be making a beeline for the ball at this stage, given that Milner doesn't attack it. In real time I also thought Milner should be going to the ball.

Not handing out blame at all, if I was then I'd put most of this goal on Fabinho for diving in, that's what really opened up the goal. I agree that there was dysfunction and unfamiliarity all round and I don't care about the result at all. I just like looking at defending counterattacks and seeing if other people would have done differently. This is redundant overanalysis but you face a lot of 2 on 1s when you play 5 a side!
« Last Edit: January 8, 2019, 12:09:30 pm by Shaved Crossbar »

Offline redmark

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Re: FA Cup: Wolves 2 v Liverpool 1 Jimenez ‘37 Neves ‘55 Origi ‘50
« Reply #961 on: January 8, 2019, 12:16:24 pm »
I've watched it a few times now, I see Milner glance at Hoever just after the ball crosses the halfway line - Hoever's 10 yards from Milner and another 10 from the ball, so imo James should have been treating it as a 2 on 1 rather than assuming he'd get help. When the ball's about halfway into our half, the runner starts to try and block James off, imo Milner should be shading between runner and ball, ready to attack the ball once it nears the box. By the time it's in our third, Milner should be ignoring the runner and moving to the ball at all costs imo, with Migs hopefully ready to come out and smother any pass Jimenez makes. When it does near the box, Hoever is vaguely in the picture, he should also be making a beeline for the ball at this stage, given that Milner doesn't attack it. In real time I also thought Milner should be going to the ball.

Not handing out blame at all, if I was then I'd put most of this goal on Fabinho for diving in, that's what really opened up the goal. I agree that there was dysfunction and unfamiliarity all round and I don't care about the result at all. I just like looking at defending counterattacks and seeing if other people would have done differently. This is redundant overanalysis but you face a lot of 2 on 1s when you play 5 a side!
I thought there was another glance much later in the move, when he realises Hoever hasn't come across? But I'm not watching it again :).
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Re: FA Cup: Wolves 2 v Liverpool 1 Jimenez ‘37 Neves ‘55 Origi ‘50
« Reply #962 on: January 8, 2019, 12:29:56 pm »
Anybody think Milner made the wrong call when defending the first goal? Went central at first, correct decision. After that, when the ball is 30-35 yards out, I really think he should be doing more to get out to Jimenez/the ball. I know their lad is trying to block him but felt Milner could have done better.

Yes he did but I also think he was struggling for pace and just couldn't move fast enough.
Wind back a bit and it started off (like their 2nd goal) with us in possession. Moreno played a poor ball to Milner who really should have got rid of it quickly but got caught on the ball. Fabinho then made a rash decision to dive in instead of tracking the player.

That left Milner and Hoever to get back to cover. Hoever should have reacted quicker and got back to the central player to let Milner go to the player with the ball.

I think Milner just didn't have the legs to do what was right. He stayed with the free man too long and left the player with the ball to run on and score. Moreno was way up the pitch and maybe he could have got back but he probably expected that Fabinho would make the tackle.

We had possession just before the goal and most of our players were in the opposition half. Once Milner lost it and then when Fabinho missed the tackle we were left very exposed.

That's what happens when you play against good teams. You must not lose the ball when you have committed lots of players to attack. We did a similar thing for their 2nd goal. We had the ball but Fabinho got himself into a bit of a mess, passed a poor ball to Milner who then put Jones under pressure. Jones panicked and played a lose pass instead of retaining the ball. It's the odd poor control or bad pass that can lead to a goal. The better players do the simple things well and rarely get pressurised into losing the ball.

Milner played quite well considering he was covering a lot of ground and playing in a position that he normally doesn't. He got slated by some people here saying that he had a poor match but for me he did as well as he could have but was exposed by others who didn't help him enough.
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Offline redgriffin73

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Re: FA Cup: Wolves 2 v Liverpool 1 Jimenez ‘37 Neves ‘55 Origi ‘50
« Reply #963 on: January 8, 2019, 12:31:03 pm »
So tonight wasn't a last resort?

Klopp:

“I made the line-up for different reasons. After the City game we immediately had a few players who were ill, showed sore throats and all that you can have in this period of the year,” said Klopp.

Pretty much all the players not here today had little problems, apart from Alisson. We had to make late changes. Yesterday, Adam was in our plans, like Hendo. Dejan was not in the plans - he should have only been on the bench. It happened what happened. It doesn't help a lot. Then we had to change again.

“I am sure some very smart people tell me I do not respect the competition.”

t’s like this. The third round was here last year, the year before, the year before. You all want this number of games so don’t ask me if it is right or not. That’s the number of games we have to play, so far we have been very successful but today we lost, because we had to make changes. Not only that, of course, but the opponents scored two goals. That’s the story of the night.”



Who was going to play in Lovren's place then, Hendo?
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Offline deFacto please, you bastards

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Re: FA Cup: Wolves 2 v Liverpool 1 Jimenez ‘37 Neves ‘55 Origi ‘50
« Reply #964 on: January 8, 2019, 12:37:02 pm »
the evidence to your point being very real is in the match/post-match threads on here and elsewhere, obviously random numbers but whereas after a victory a thread will be 15 pages long, after a defeat its about 30-40. People love a whinge.

and I would understand it if this was the Hodgson era and the period after it [aside from Kenny's cup run] and Rodgers first and last season, but we're so far removed from that, it's a night and day difference

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Re: FA Cup: Wolves 2 v Liverpool 1 Jimenez ‘37 Neves ‘55 Origi ‘50
« Reply #965 on: January 8, 2019, 12:41:22 pm »
Who was going to play in Lovren's place then, Hendo?

I have no idea. It was probably not going to be Keita or Lallana. That just leaves Henderson or Milner. The fact that Milner moved to centre half when Lovren went off would make me think that Henderson was going to play midfield and Milner CH. When Henderson couldn't play then Lovren was brought in and Milner was played in midfield.
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Re: FA Cup: Wolves 2 v Liverpool 1 Jimenez ‘37 Neves ‘55 Origi ‘50
« Reply #966 on: January 8, 2019, 12:41:24 pm »
Was at the match last night and I must say I felt the youngsters did us proud, was actually most disappointed with the senior players. Have to say as well that the negativity around us was pure poison, moaning bellends calling our players shit including those making their first appearances. You would think we were having an atrocious season.
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Re: FA Cup: Wolves 2 v Liverpool 1 Jimenez ‘37 Neves ‘55 Origi ‘50
« Reply #967 on: January 8, 2019, 12:47:13 pm »
Couldn't give a shit about the FA Cup.

I mean this in the nicest possible way mate and mean no offence, but that's a very snobby attitude to have. We haven't won anything in ages, I would have loved to have won the FA Cup.
Maybe this season is different from previous ones because we are where we are and that's an understandable point of view 
Klopp has to priorotise and rightly so, but no one will convince me that he and the players wont be very dissapointed we're not in the next round

Offline Jm55

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Re: FA Cup: Wolves 2 v Liverpool 1 Jimenez ‘37 Neves ‘55 Origi ‘50
« Reply #968 on: January 8, 2019, 12:52:49 pm »
I mean this in the nicest possible way mate and mean no offence, but that's a very snobby attitude to have. We haven't won anything in ages, I would have loved to have won the FA Cup.
Maybe this season is different from previous ones because we are where we are and that's an understandable point of view 
Klopp has to priorotise and rightly so, but no one will convince me that he and the players wont be very dissapointed we're not in the next round

I think that his point is probably more related to the fact that we’ve won the FA Cup twice since the turn of the century yet haven’t won the title. We have a genuine chance at the title this season which is very rare for us and we should be going all out to win it.

It’s annoying we’re out but in the context of what we’re trying to achieve it’s difficult to care too much. It’s noHey about being snobby and thinking we’re above it, just a realisation that we have to pick our battles a bit.

Offline jepovic

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Re: FA Cup: Wolves 2 v Liverpool 1 Jimenez ‘37 Neves ‘55 Origi ‘50
« Reply #969 on: January 8, 2019, 01:00:50 pm »
Your posts are some of the only sensible one's.

I genuinely can't understand the 'Klopp needs silverware rhetoric'. This lad you quoted sounds like the fans of the other teams.
We were competing for almost nothing for a decade but apparently, we have some divine right to win silverware. As you've said, the external environment has gone so much tougher but Klopp has got us up there competing with less resources. That is success if we end up with a record points total, winning it or not.

Winning a FA cup would have been a lovely celebration for a few days and took some of the media heat off Klopp. Then a week later everyone would be back saying, but he needs to win the league. It should never have been the focus with our current position, he made the right call, didn't quite work, oh well.
Yeah, or imagine we'd win a cup and finish a close second in the league - the fans and the media would be fuming over his priorities (correct or not).

I think Klopp wants to be able to look the fans in the eyes after this season and say:
"I did absolutely everything I could to win the league"

Offline Red-Dread

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Re: FA Cup: Wolves 2 v Liverpool 1 Jimenez ‘37 Neves ‘55 Origi ‘50
« Reply #970 on: January 8, 2019, 01:01:20 pm »
First, I’ve not said we shouldn’t have rotated. I just don’t like the snobbery that we are above trying to win the FA Cup or being glad we are out.

Second, the league is everyone’s priority. I don’t think of much else at the moment.

Third, You’re last paragraph makes no sense.

Your third sentence makes no sense :)
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Offline mkingdon

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Re: FA Cup: Wolves 2 v Liverpool 1 Jimenez ‘37 Neves ‘55 Origi ‘50
« Reply #971 on: January 8, 2019, 01:02:04 pm »
It was a dire performance on the whole.  Not a shock with a 16 year old CB and two other kids starting. I'd have hoped for more from Sturridge, Moreno and Keita from the senior players and Origi only really saved himself from similar criticism with his very good goal.

There's not too much wrong with our squad depth, when you factor in Henderson, Lallana and Lovren were all missing and really should have played.

As others have said, if Lovren stayed on the game would have been very different. Milner was so busy trying to protect the 16 year old at CB, and to some extent Fabinho who was a very make shift player in that position that it massively affected our whole team.

For the second game in a row, a shot hitting the post doesn't go in, and with different luck, we would have faired much better.

Camacho did OK I thought, Jones gave the ball away consistently and Hoever did pretty well all things considered.

I don't think for a second that Klopp or any player wanted to go out last night, but in the context of our season and current position, should we go on to win the league, nobody in years to come will give a shiny shit about the 3rd round of the FA Cup.

Since 1990 we haven't been in this good a position, with such a good team and if it means we don't win a domestic cup to pursue that chance then so be it. The two defeats, all context ignored, have put some extra pressure on the Brighton game and should we not win that then there will be a full blown "crisis" portrayed in the media. A good solid win is required and we march on.

Offline Cheesehead

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Re: FA Cup: Wolves 2 v Liverpool 1 Jimenez ‘37 Neves ‘55 Origi ‘50
« Reply #972 on: January 8, 2019, 01:03:03 pm »
Your third sentence makes no sense :)

That the league is everyone’s priority. I think it is like.

Offline Jm55

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Re: FA Cup: Wolves 2 v Liverpool 1 Jimenez ‘37 Neves ‘55 Origi ‘50
« Reply #973 on: January 8, 2019, 01:10:10 pm »
What I find laughable is the idea that although sub par performances are accepted for the young players, it’s unacceptable for the senior players who are surrounded by those young players.

People are aware of the concept of a team? Obviously The likes of Shaqiri are not going to perform as well with the likes of Sturridge and Origi in front of him than he would with Salah and Mane. Obviously Keita is going to struggle more in midfield with Curtis Jones next to him than he would with Gino.

What Klopp has managed to, very successfully create, is a team which can operate with a number of systems, formations and line ups. However, last night is not an example of one of them. It was a miss math of experience mixed with complete inexperience, of players who will soon be sold with players who’ve only just started their time here. If we’d managed to pull anything better than we did last night out the bag I would have been genuinely surprised, and even then we’re only the paint of the post away from it being 2-2.  We played as badly as that at home to Plymouth a few years ago againt a far lesser side.

It would have been nice if we’d gone through but surely the Lovren injury within minutes proves it was the right call? I’m far from his biggest fan but he’ll be a loss as a squad option until he recovers, let’s just be grateful it wasn’t anyone more key to the team and the reason for that is the manager’s selection.

Anyone whose desperate to win the FA Cup, let’s win the league this season then go all out for it next season  ;D

Offline wige

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Re: FA Cup: Wolves 2 v Liverpool 1 Jimenez ‘37 Neves ‘55 Origi ‘50
« Reply #974 on: January 8, 2019, 01:11:23 pm »
I'd expect a stronger team, but if it came to a decision between a chance at the league or the 'Champions' League then it's league every single time for me.

Although cup games are great and I go to home and some aways and finals and the like - we haven't won the league for nigh on thirty years. If Klopp won 5 'Champions' Leagues in a row and still we didn't win the league then I'd count that as failure. We didn't bring in Klopp to win more cups. We brought him in to challenge for the league.

If we did win 5 'Champions' Leagues, 4 FA Cups, 4 League Cups, 3 Super Cups, 3 World Club Cups and zero leagues - would you see that as 'success'?

I wouldn't. We're a cup team. When we last won the league all those years ago, I certainly didn't think we'd be here with zero leagues under our belt. We might as well be Spurs. We've come close to winning the league on a few occasions, but it's not good enough.

When push comes to shove, we need to win the league. No ifs. No buts.

That's just my personal opinion though and no one can say I'm not a 'proper fan that doesn't go to Cup games' either.

This is as about as bonkers a post I've seen in 10+ years reading RAWK.

Specifically:

"If we did win 5 'Champions' Leagues, 4 FA Cups, 4 League Cups, 3 Super Cups, 3 World Club Cups and zero leagues - would you see that as 'success'?"

Yes. Absolutely fucking Yes.

Offline cashmere pringle

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Re: FA Cup: Wolves 2 v Liverpool 1 Jimenez ‘37 Neves ‘55 Origi ‘50
« Reply #975 on: January 8, 2019, 01:12:17 pm »
we had our share of luck in matches up to and around christmas. I reckon a the last couple of shots bouncing the wrong way off posts means we've cancelled out the good luck with bad now making us evens with the gods of chance.

We have played out hardest matches (in league), squared our lucky breaks and are still 4 points on top !

great result in my eyes

Offline Teacher

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Re: FA Cup: Wolves 2 v Liverpool 1 Jimenez ‘37 Neves ‘55 Origi ‘50
« Reply #976 on: January 8, 2019, 01:13:26 pm »
Not overly bothered about going out. I know we haven`t won a trophy in the last few years and can understand that many fans are disappointed with a third round exit.

Have the feeling however that this will ultimately help us with the rest of the season and our 2 main targets.

It`s a pity that the FA Cup in general is not what it was. When I was a lad there was something special about the whole competition, particularly if we progressed to the later rounds/final etc. These days it`s all about the Premier/Champions League...more financial reward, bigger games and a better chance of attracting high-calibre players. The FA Cup has unfortunately become rather insignificant in comparison...an indication of modern-day football I suppose.

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Re: FA Cup: Wolves 2 v Liverpool 1 Jimenez ‘37 Neves ‘55 Origi ‘50
« Reply #977 on: January 8, 2019, 01:15:49 pm »
Just ever so slightly worried about what last night says about our squad depth if we face a few injuries.
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Re: FA Cup: Wolves 2 v Liverpool 1 Jimenez ‘37 Neves ‘55 Origi ‘50
« Reply #978 on: January 8, 2019, 01:16:50 pm »
All this talk of being out helping us in the league. I’m still yet to see a season where we say phew I’m glad we glad we got knocked out of the FA Cup as it’s helped outlet league position. I get what people are thinking but I’ve seen the evidence of it.

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Re: FA Cup: Wolves 2 v Liverpool 1 Jimenez ‘37 Neves ‘55 Origi ‘50
« Reply #979 on: January 8, 2019, 01:17:39 pm »
Just ever so slightly worried about what last night says about our squad depth if we face a few injuries.

Yep. We are knackered if alisson or Robertson get injured  :o

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Re: FA Cup: Wolves 2 v Liverpool 1 Jimenez ‘37 Neves ‘55 Origi ‘50
« Reply #980 on: January 8, 2019, 01:19:56 pm »
I forgot how disappointing our back-up goalie can be, so many hesitant, slow, short balls from the back when we've been used to hyper-confident and hyper-competent displays. Let's crush Brighton on Saturday and restore normality.
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Re: FA Cup: Wolves 2 v Liverpool 1 Jimenez ‘37 Neves ‘55 Origi ‘50
« Reply #981 on: January 8, 2019, 01:24:12 pm »
Sometimes long breaks aren’t good for a team. They can lose their rythym. At the moment nothing is certain. I do trust Klopp I just hope he’s right.

Generally, under Klopp, we've benefitted from breaks.

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Re: FA Cup: Wolves 2 v Liverpool 1 Jimenez ‘37 Neves ‘55 Origi ‘50
« Reply #982 on: January 8, 2019, 01:25:34 pm »
All this talk of being out helping us in the league. I’m still yet to see a season where we say phew I’m glad we glad we got knocked out of the FA Cup as it’s helped outlet league position. I get what people are thinking but I’ve seen the evidence of it.

Really? Is your memory that short? If so then lets flip it the other way around.

In 15/16, how many league games did we play heavily rotated sides in order to give us a chance to get to the Europa League final? I remember two alone against Newcastle and Swansea, where we drew and lost. We were at a point 4 points behind 4th at one time. Do we come 8th without that Europa run?

What about last season? To make the CL final we really dropped our intensity, so much so that it took us until the final game of the season to tie up the CL place for this season. Do you think we beat West Brom and Stoke and play better against Chelsea without that CL run?

Now there might be questions about squad quality and sizes, but under Klopp we have seen prioritisation take place.
« Last Edit: January 8, 2019, 01:27:18 pm by a treeless whopper »

Offline Alf

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Re: FA Cup: Wolves 2 v Liverpool 1 Jimenez ‘37 Neves ‘55 Origi ‘50
« Reply #983 on: January 8, 2019, 01:27:11 pm »
I felt with both of their goals. That we were too slow to picking them up, if you let players run at you or of let a player with the ability of Ruben Neves have sight of goal outside the box then your asking for trouble. With that said, I think we all knew what we were getting as soon as we heard Mignolet & Moreno were playing.

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Re: FA Cup: Wolves 2 v Liverpool 1 Jimenez ‘37 Neves ‘55 Origi ‘50
« Reply #984 on: January 8, 2019, 01:32:52 pm »
I felt with both of their goals. That we were too slow to picking them up, if you let players run at you or of let a player with the ability of Ruben Neves have sight of goal outside the box then your asking for trouble. With that said, I think we all knew what we were getting as soon as we heard Mignolet & Moreno were playing.

So Moreno and Mignolet were responsible for their goals?

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Re: FA Cup: Wolves 2 v Liverpool 1 Jimenez ‘37 Neves ‘55 Origi ‘50
« Reply #985 on: January 8, 2019, 01:33:34 pm »
I mean this in the nicest possible way mate and mean no offence, but that's a very snobby attitude to have. We haven't won anything in ages, I would have loved to have won the FA Cup.
Maybe this season is different from previous ones because we are where we are and that's an understandable point of view 
Klopp has to priorotise and rightly so, but no one will convince me that he and the players wont be very dissapointed we're not in the next round

At the end of the season City could spend a shed load of money and be miles ahead of everyone of us. That is why we have to try everything this season to win the title. At the end of the day this is a big chance for us, which is why I am happy for Klopp to have longer to work with the squad for the rest of the season. With the time between the games we could still compete for the two remaining competitions.
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Re: FA Cup: Wolves 2 v Liverpool 1 Jimenez ‘37 Neves ‘55 Origi ‘50
« Reply #986 on: January 8, 2019, 01:34:45 pm »
Who was going to play in Lovren's place then, Hendo?

The way he worded it sounded like maybe Virg would have started....?
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

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Re: FA Cup: Wolves 2 v Liverpool 1 Jimenez ‘37 Neves ‘55 Origi ‘50
« Reply #987 on: January 8, 2019, 01:39:25 pm »
Really? Is your memory that short? If so then lets flip it the other way around.

In 15/16, how many league games did we play heavily rotated sides in order to give us a chance to get to the Europa League final? I remember two alone against Newcastle and Swansea, where we drew and lost. We were at a point 4 points behind 4th at one time. Do we come 8th without that Europa run?

What about last season? To make the CL final we really dropped our intensity, so much so that it took us until the final game of the season to tie up the CL place for this season. Do you think we beat West Brom and Stoke and play better against Chelsea without that CL run?

Now there might be questions about squad quality and sizes, but under Klopp we have seen prioritisation take place.

Non of that says being out of the fa cup helps us in the league tho.

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Re: FA Cup: Wolves 2 v Liverpool 1 Jimenez ‘37 Neves ‘55 Origi ‘50
« Reply #988 on: January 8, 2019, 01:41:18 pm »
Non of that says being out of the fa cup helps us in the league tho.

If you're actually approaching this subject with an open mind and willingness to be persuaded, there's been a fair few analyses done by Liverpool fans. Pretty sure a google search will show you. Paul Tomkins was saying his analysis had shown Cups having a significant impact on league seasons.

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Re: FA Cup: Wolves 2 v Liverpool 1 Jimenez ‘37 Neves ‘55 Origi ‘50
« Reply #989 on: January 8, 2019, 01:52:14 pm »
This is as about as bonkers a post I've seen in 10+ years reading RAWK.

Specifically:

"If we did win 5 'Champions' Leagues, 4 FA Cups, 4 League Cups, 3 Super Cups, 3 World Club Cups and zero leagues - would you see that as 'success'?"

Yes. Absolutely fucking Yes.

And if that league win rate remains at 30 more years which is the point I was making?

You think a successful club is one that hasn't won the league in nigh on 60 years?

OK. We can agree to disagree then.
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Re: FA Cup: Wolves 2 v Liverpool 1 Jimenez ‘37 Neves ‘55 Origi ‘50
« Reply #990 on: January 8, 2019, 01:53:21 pm »
Non of that says being out of the fa cup helps us in the league tho.

Well if we were not in the CL last season, do you think we would have qualified for this seasons CL earlier?

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Re: FA Cup: Wolves 2 v Liverpool 1 Jimenez ‘37 Neves ‘55 Origi ‘50
« Reply #991 on: January 8, 2019, 01:54:14 pm »
And if that league win rate remains at 30 more years which is the point I was making?

You think a successful club is one that hasn't won the league in nigh on 60 years?

OK. We can agree to disagree then.

I'm saying that if Klopp delivered the 18 trophies you listed, that would be success, yes.

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Re: FA Cup: Wolves 2 v Liverpool 1 Jimenez ‘37 Neves ‘55 Origi ‘50
« Reply #992 on: January 8, 2019, 01:56:25 pm »
If you're actually approaching this subject with an open mind and willingness to be persuaded, there's been a fair few analyses done by Liverpool fans. Pretty sure a google search will show you. Paul Tomkins was saying his analysis had shown Cups having a significant impact on league seasons.

You don’t need analysis you just need half a brain in your head to realise more games equals more fatigue and chance of injuries. Doesn’t mean you want to be out of that cup but means you take more risks to rest players in the less important competitions.

If people can’t grasp these childlike simple facts at this stage there’s no helping them.

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Re: FA Cup: Wolves 2 v Liverpool 1 Jimenez ‘37 Neves ‘55 Origi ‘50
« Reply #993 on: January 8, 2019, 01:56:26 pm »
And if that league win rate remains at 30 more years which is the point I was making?

You think a successful club is one that hasn't won the league in nigh on 60 years?

OK. We can agree to disagree then.

Honestly, 5 champions leagues. FIVE of them. Literally doubling the amount we've ever won.

That wouldn't be successful in your eyes?

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Re: FA Cup: Wolves 2 v Liverpool 1 Jimenez ‘37 Neves ‘55 Origi ‘50
« Reply #994 on: January 8, 2019, 02:00:21 pm »
Very kind of you to say so.

And that's all it is - media heat and shite from opposing fans. I avoid lots of mainstream footy media, but to be fair the sensible ones aren't fully committed to the "he needs a trophy" line because they can see beyond any reasonable doubt that he's improved us.
Most opposition fans are "banter" merchants and usually clueless too. They like to say we're deluded and entitled, but most Liverpool fans I speak to are anything but entitled. We know better than anyone that we're entitled to fuck all. Oddly enough the fans that tend to call us entitled are often Utd, City, Chelsea fans that act a bit affronted that we have got back to being competitive, which in itself is a little bit.........entitled.
Just trawling through the thread and spotted this. Like you, I tend to avoid most of the football media. They are all about sensationalism and polarised opinion. Much of it comes with an agenda too. I'm bored of it, to be honest. I take in our games then move on. Opposing fans? Who cares what they think.

Klopp winning a trophy? I think I it would do him the world of good, and his talent a lot of justice. I just hope targeting the biggest prizes comes off for him. The man has transformed this club and I love the guy. I want him to win trophies for him, as much as I want him to win them with/for us. I've no doubt he will do, and once the floodgates open... He/we are knocking on the door now, and sooner or later it will open.

The "entitled" shout about us from other fanbases is not really accurate. This is especially so with our older fans who saw us win it all. I was lucky enough to be around to see us winning everything, and I'm not in the least bit entitled. Seeing what it took back then to be top of the tree and stay there taught me a lot. You have to graft for everything you get. You have to make your own luck. You have to be so strong and so consistent. Basically, if you don't work your balls off for success, it doesn't come. Liverpool made it look easy back then, but it's obvious we were like the swan who looked graceful above the water but below it we were peddling like mad and grafting for everything we earned.

Klopp has the squad grafting now, and FSG seem to be doing their part in the boardroom too. We are on the right track and making the kind of progress few thought possible not so long back when the two clowns owned us. We live in an inpatient age, though. We all want it yesterday. It's the way of the world now. Many of our fans have never seen a league title win, so who can blame them wanting it so badly.

Entitled? Not really. We know better than anyone just what it takes to get right to the top of the tree without being gifted endless riches. It takes time and endless hard work. If/when we achieve our goals it will be well deserved and hard earned.

Deluded? Again, not really. We are competing. We have reached Europe's two biggest finals in recent years. We are finally competing in the league and we have not even peaked. And we are up against the most financially doped club in British football history and more than matching them. Believing we have a chance of success here is not delusional at all. In fact, believing otherwise would be negative and defeatist.

Fans of clubs like United, City  and Chelsea saying we are entitled is a bit rich, really, and highly ironic. It's just their way of keeping us in our box. The truth is that our rebirth under Klopp and FSG scares the shit out of them. The fact we are challenging again worries them deeply. Long may that continue...
« Last Edit: January 8, 2019, 02:08:19 pm by Son of Spion »
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Re: FA Cup: Wolves 2 v Liverpool 1 Jimenez ‘37 Neves ‘55 Origi ‘50
« Reply #995 on: January 8, 2019, 02:01:54 pm »
If you're actually approaching this subject with an open mind and willingness to be persuaded, there's been a fair few analyses done by Liverpool fans. Pretty sure a google search will show you. Paul Tomkins was saying his analysis had shown Cups having a significant impact on league seasons.

From memory we’ve been pretty rubbish in the fa cup for most seasons since 1992. We haven’t won the league during that time. I would like to see this analysis although I’m sceptical.

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Re: FA Cup: Wolves 2 v Liverpool 1 Jimenez ‘37 Neves ‘55 Origi ‘50
« Reply #996 on: January 8, 2019, 02:04:24 pm »
Well if we were not in the CL last season, do you think we would have qualified for this seasons CL earlier?

Maybe, who knows. It’s not always good to have loads of time off between games. Sometimes it’s better to keep playing. It’s not an absolute that more time off means better performances and results.

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Re: FA Cup: Wolves 2 v Liverpool 1 Jimenez ‘37 Neves ‘55 Origi ‘50
« Reply #997 on: January 8, 2019, 02:08:59 pm »
From memory we’ve been pretty rubbish in the fa cup for most seasons since 1992. We haven’t won the league during that time. I would like to see this analysis although I’m sceptical.

Yeah, that's not analysis.

It's out there if you bother

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Re: FA Cup: Wolves 2 v Liverpool 1 Jimenez ‘37 Neves ‘55 Origi ‘50
« Reply #998 on: January 8, 2019, 02:11:14 pm »
For all those (and the press) who keep mentioning that we shouldn't take FA cup lightly and it is not the liverpool way to not challenge for the FA cup.....

well....King Kenny won the league cup and lost the FA cup to a team which eventually won the champions league later that month. Guess what happened to the king that season ? An absolute legend was sacked and replaced by a mid-table head coach.

The owners of this club don't give a $hit about FA & League Cup. Thats the brutal truth.

Klopp has his KPIs and i reckon they do not involve doing well in the domestic cups. So just like Carragher mentioned in his twitter...i have no problem with the changes Klopp made. Sometimes you have to hedge your bets to make billions. Klopp is doing likewise so that we finally win the frickin league.
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Re: FA Cup: Wolves 2 v Liverpool 1 Jimenez ‘37 Neves ‘55 Origi ‘50
« Reply #999 on: January 8, 2019, 02:13:20 pm »
Yeah, that's not analysis.

It's out there if you bother

I know it’s not analysis, hence why I said ‘from memory’ and I said I’d like to see the analysis so I will look it up.