Topic: Cyberbullying (split from Brexit thread)

[Rhi]

[Kenny's Jacket]

Find this sort of thing just so, so, so unnecessary. Whether its online, or real life, accusations of bullying are really serious. Its a really unpleasant thing to be accused of. And particularly so like in this situation where there really blatantly isn't anything of the sort going on.

I see this clique thing mentioned occasionally too, who is actually meant to be 'in' the clique?

Alan posting style can sometimes be quite aggressive in manner, however this wasnt one of those times, it was a bit of ribbing that has been blown out of ll proportion. I can only assume the calls for Bullying are by people who have never experienced actual bullying, online or other.

The clique thing comes from the fact certain posters can say things that many others would not get away with, ie get banned for.

Its important to remember however this is a free group/society (free in the sense we dont pay subs)  its also my go to website for pretty much everything.  I only went in to the Brexit thread cos someone told me about the Danny Dyer video and I knew someone on RAWK would have posted it. RAWK is pretty much my news and sport website.

The fact its free means I view it as being invited round someones house. Its their rules and there maybe the odd occasion of double standards, however you know where the door is.

[El Lobo]

Alan posting style can sometimes be quite aggressive in manner, however this wasnt one of those times, it was a bit of ribbing that has been blown out of ll proportion. I can only assume the calls for Bullying are by people who have never experienced actual bullying, online or other.

The clique thing comes from the fact certain posters can say things that many others would not get away with, ie get banned for.

Its important to remember however this is a free group/society (free in the sense we dont pay subs)  its also my go to website for pretty much everything.  I only went in to the Brexit thread cos someone told me about the Danny Dyer video and I knew someone on RAWK would have posted it. RAWK is pretty much my news and sport website.

The fact its free means I view it as being invited round someones house. Its their rules and there maybe the odd occasion of double standards, however you know where the door is.

I don't think that's particularly true either, plenty of posters who you'd say are in the clique have had bans and warnings for pretty soft stuff. Depends which mod does what, probably even what mood they're in. Which I think is the way it should be really, considering they're doing this off their own backs.

[cloggypop]

A better response than this thread would have been a simple "Soz Geoff".

[Kenny's Jacket]

I don't think that's particularly true either, plenty of posters who you'd say are in the clique have had bans and warnings for pretty soft stuff. Depends which mod does what, probably even what mood they're in. Which I think is the way it should be really, considering they're doing this off their own backs.

Based on what Ive seen I dont agree

[Paragon]

Ok - as promised here is the discussion about accusations of cyberbullying and making unfunny jokes in the Brexit thread.

It's not a problem that's exclusive to the Brexit thread. I've seen you tell plenty of users to fuck off. You actually told me to fuck off once because I disagreed with someone regarding substitutions in an England game. How long would you have banned me for if I'd spoken to you like that?

It's refreshing to see I'm not the only one who doesn't think it's all a laugh and a joke.

The clique thing comes from the fact certain posters can say things that many others would not get away with, ie get banned for.

Spot on. I once reported a user for calling me a c*nt, only for a mod to explain that nothing happened to the user because I was only told that I "come across as a c*nt" and wasn't outright called "a c*nt". The context of the abusive post was obvious but it didn't matter. It's one of the reasons I mainly just post in the ticket threads now.

[24/7]

A better response than this thread would have been a simple "Soz Geoff".

Given how wildly out of proportion this whole thing was blown, would "Soz Geoff" have been enough though? Easy to say yes in hindsight and it seems now that Alan is doomed to be damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. What a pity that is.

[cloggypop]

Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. That's a painfully inadequate response to a painfully honest reply by Alan. Have a look at yeself.

This isn't about me. There's no need for all this soul searching though. All it needed was the realisation that a post had been taken badly and a simple apology.

[cloggypop]

Given how wildly out of proportion this whole thing was blown, would "Soz Geoff" have been enough though? Easy to say yes in hindsight and it seems now that Alan is doomed to be damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. What a pity that is.

This thread makes it more out of proportion than it needs to be. As I say, "Soz", sorted.

[24/7]

Based on what Ive seen I dont agree

That's the thing though - lots of stuff is done that you don't get to see - and, frankly, shouldn't. Lots of stuff gets deleted before most people even get to see it. Warnings are private. Ban messages are private. The moderation log is restricted view. You don't get to see a lot of what we do. So whatever view you have is intentionally restricted at best, myopic at worst. At the end of the day, some people will see what they want to see anyway and we can do fuck all about that.

[24/7]

This thread makes it more out of proportion than it needs to be. As I say, "Soz", sorted.

It was already out of proportion. If you believe it's disproportionate, why contribute to it? In the same way that people bitching and griping about "cliques" end up actively contributing to a "clique" mentality.

A better response from you would have been to acknowledge Alan's genuine response. Can you do that? Or is that too big an ask?

[cloggypop]

I'm only contributing because people keep dragging me here by quoting me!

[24/7]

This isn't about me. There's no need for all this soul searching though. All it needed was the realisation that a post had been taken badly and a simple apology.

I had deleted my own message, preferring instead to use different words - for someone who says it's not about them, you were damned quick to leap on it! Waiting for replies are we? Hitting refresh? If you don't care that much, why do you care that much? Oh and I only care that much about it because it involves the site. It's not personal.

[24/7]

I'm only contributing because people keep dragging me here by quoting me!

Bollocks. Exercise self-moderation. If more people did that, we wouldn't need moderators. Get a grip man.

[Kenny's Jacket]

That's the thing though - lots of stuff is done that you don't get to see - and, frankly, shouldn't. Lots of stuff gets deleted before most people even get to see it. Warnings are private. Ban messages are private. The moderation log is restricted view. You don't get to see a lot of what we do. So whatever view you have is intentionally restricted at best, myopic at worst. At the end of the day, some people will see what they want to see anyway and we can do fuck all about that.

Thats true.  However you can see when someone makes a post thats worthy of ban, however the poster has the ability to keep posting because you can see their posts.

[cloggypop]

Bollocks. Exercise self-moderation. If more people did that, we wouldn't need moderators. Get a grip man.

This is all getting a bit daft and unnecessary.

I'm off elsewhere.

[24/7]

I'm off elsewhere.

Thank fuck for that.

[24/7]

Thats true.  However you can see when someone makes a post thats worthy of ban, however the poster has the ability to keep posting because you can see their posts.

Ban-worthy by whose criteria though? Context is everything, Kenny. Do you think mods hover over the ban button praying for the slightest excuse? No. Unless it's overtly the obvious reason (think anything that might get you sacked for gross misconduct, or a blatant red card in a match), bans are often discussed BEFORE the button is pushed. The staff room does have an albeit kinda loose checks and balances approach. You also cannot see what, if any, sanctions are in place for the poster to continue with their posting privileges. A lot goes on that you don't know - and a surprising amount of it is supportive.

Sir Harvest Fields would have been banned many, many, many, MANY times over in the past had his context not been taken into account and direct intervention from more than one of us from time to time. Yet he was able to continue, albeit under guidance and occasional restriction. It actually helped him. And for others, being banned and not let back in actually is in their best interests too (I could name several) - sometimes a banned member is allowed back in - but again, it's discussed - and every. single. action. in the staff room is done with the best interests of the site and its membership taken into account. And we're fallible. No site is perfect. I just happen to believe that this is one of the better ones - sometimes iron fist in a velvet glove is the way to go - other times it's not appropriate - and at others it's not enough - and you rarely get to see the mechanism behind the thinking.

[Kenny's Jacket]

Ban-worthy by whose criteria though? Context is everything, Kenny. Do you think mods hover over the ban button praying for the slightest excuse? No. Unless it's overtly the obvious reason (think anything that might get you sacked for gross misconduct, or a blatant red card in a match), bans are often discussed BEFORE the button is pushed. The staff room does have an albeit kinda loose checks and balances approach. You also cannot see what, if any, sanctions are in place for the poster to continue with their posting privileges. A lot goes on that you don't know - and a surprising amount of it is supportive.

Sir Harvest Fields would have been banned many, many, many, MANY times over in the past had his context not been taken into account and direct intervention from more than one of us from time to time. Yet he was able to continue, albeit under guidance and occasional restriction. It actually helped him. And for others, being banned and not let back in actually is in their best interests too (I could name several) - sometimes a banned member is allowed back in - but again, it's discussed - and every. single. action. in the staff room is done with the best interests of the site and its membership taken into account. And we're fallible. No site is perfect. I just happen to believe that this is one of the better ones - sometimes iron fist in a velvet glove is the way to go - other times it's not appropriate - and at others it's not enough - and you rarely get to see the mechanism behind the thinking.

Thanks for the long reply, however it wasnt necessary (I dont mean that in a wanker way, just I can imagine how it goes  )

Sorry may have given you a false impression. When I say a ban, I mean for a week or however long (The kind of ban Ive had about 5 of )
Not an actual forever ban. 

[24/7]

Thanks for the long reply, however it wasnt necessary (I dont mean that in a wanker way, just I can imagine how it goes  )

Sorry may have given you a false impression. When I say a ban, I mean for a week or however long (The kind of ban Ive had about 5 of )
Not an actual forever ban. 

Thanks for the non-wankeresque reply

I see what you mean then - and let me put it like this - sometimes people DO post stuff which is short-term-banworthy and it is actioned - you might not notice this until later - perhaps a 24 hour or 48 hour ban is applied and it could just look like they took a day or two off from posting (which more people should do - even mods take sabbaticals at times...) and then when they come back, you see it and are like, "Hey, they posted something banworthy! Why are they still here?" but without the insight of the action taken.

And if someone gets too many yellows in the season, they get a red.....

Hope that makes sense.

As an aside, bullying is a very, very serious matter - and it's not taken lightly on RAWK - so when it's raised, we cannot just dismiss it with a "soz", because that is tantamount to admission of us having bullied - no, when Pandora's Box is open, we all have to deal with the fallout.

[JerseyKloppite]

Just don't punch down Alan. Easy enough.

How is it “punching down”?

For a start it was a gentle ribbing at best. As for “down” there are times when a mod will plainly post as a mod, and there are times when he/she will post as a forum user getting involved in a discussion/thread. It’s usually pretty easy to work out which is which.

And once you’ve been accused of cyber bullying by several people, a quick “sorry” isn’t enough frankly. Saying “Alan I think that post wasn’t very funny” or “that was uncalled for” is something that, should Alan have felt it necessary, an apology can resolve. If you accuse the people running the site of bullying it’s going to get picked up on.

[Kenny's Jacket]

And if someone gets too many yellows in the season, they get a red.....

Thanks for the warning, looks like I need to be on best behaviour then 

As an aside, bullying is a very, very serious matter - and it's not taken lightly on RAWK - so when it's raised, we cannot just dismiss it with a "soz", because that is tantamount to admission of us having bullied - no, when Pandora's Box is open, we all have to deal with the fallout.

I dont think the incident on this was bullying, said that before, it was basic general ribbing. However I do think the over-reaction is down to what some will perceive as injustice from the mods and the "clique" issue.
Im not saying that these perceptions necessarily true or justified, but do think thats where they come from

Thanks Jim

[CraigDS]

Well that escalated quickly 

Since when did people become so damn touchy? A gentle ribbing is not cyber bullying. I imagine most people know this though but saw it as an opportunity to have a moan.

[24/7]

Well that escalated quickly 

Since when did people become so damn touchy? A gentle ribbing is not cyber bullying. I imagine most people know this though but saw it as an opportunity to have a moan.

Imagine how much worse it will get when England FC get knocked out of the FIFA Wank Fest

[24/7]

Thanks for the warning, looks like I need to be on best behaviour then 

Heh no worries. I had a look - I don't think you're in any imminent danger.....and I think you're right on the other bits - but the "clique" thing also amuses me. There will always be friendships made here that could look like cliques but I don't believe this to be the case. Mods argue. Commentators argue. Transfer mods argue. We all have differences of opinion - just like any group of friends does. And sometimes people who don't believe they're part of that 'group' might seek to make an issue where there really isn't one. It happens. We move on...

[El Lobo]

Heh no worries. I had a look - I don't think you're in any imminent danger.....and I think you're right on the other bits - but the "clique" thing also amuses me. There will always be friendships made here that could look like cliques but I don't believe this to be the case. Mods argue. Commentators argue. Transfer mods argue. We all have differences of opinion - just like any group of friends does. And sometimes people who don't believe they're part of that 'group' might seek to make an issue where there really isn't one. It happens. We move on...

And looking at whats happened here, if there's anyone who could be accused of being 'cliquey' its probably those making the accusations....

[CHOPPER]

And just to add, Alan is a fantastic poster on this RAWK. His knowledge and intellect is a credit to the forum.

OK john, but lets not lose sight of the fact here that, he is after all, a fucking southern shandy drinking bastard.


I would suggest all of you use the one simple rule I use, and that is to neither favour one poster over another, but to treat them all with the same level of contempt. Bellends.

[BlackandWhitePaul]

This is all getting a bit daft and unnecessary.

I'm off elsewhere.

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjDTk-XwR9o

[Crosby Nick]

OK john, but lets not lose sight of the fact here that, he is after all, a fucking southern shandy drinking bastard.


I would suggest all of you use the one simple rule I use, and that is to neither favour one poster over another, but to treat them all with the same level of contempt. Bellends.

You’ve been singling me out of late Chops and I’ve drafted a strongly worded letter to SP and the RAWK parole board. Expect a knock at the door very soon.

[PatriotScouser]

Find this sort of thing just so, so, so unnecessary. Whether its online, or real life, accusations of bullying are really serious. Its a really unpleasant thing to be accused of. And particularly so like in this situation where there really blatantly isn't anything of the sort going on.

I see this clique thing mentioned occasionally too, who is actually meant to be 'in' the clique?

You for one.

[Samie]

Easy solution, Ban UK politics threads unless there's major news. I mean first this is a Liverpool FC forum right? Everything else is secondary to this.

[Gerry Attrick]

Easy solution, Ban UK politics threads unless there's major news. I mean first this is a Liverpool FC forum right? Everything else is secondary to this.

That's the worst solution. Some good stuff in the politics threads. I've learned no end

[24/7]

You for one.

Yeah.....that's not helping. Unless you mean it in jest, like CHOPPER does................right chops? Chops....... 

[CraigDS]

Easy solution, Ban UK politics threads unless there's major news. I mean first this is a Liverpool FC forum right? Everything else is secondary to this.

Should just ban anyone who can't take a joke.

[PatriotScouser]

But it's true there are cliques on this forum and I'm not bothered by it but from my observations, particular as an outsider looking at the Brexit thread (as an American I couldn't vote, even though my wife and I have resided here for 2 years, although at the time of the vote it was 3 or 4 months) I see that anyone who pushes an alternative view to group of people who are vehemently pro EU they are chastised.

It is no surprise then that they daren't engage with those people on that particular thread because of the backlash they would get. If I would have been eligble to vote I'd have voted to remain, but I can definitely see there are some fundamental deficianies within the EU as a whole that certain people on this forum would like to use as a vehicle as to why they feel they aren't as pro-eu as others.


I certainly do not see any cyberbullying going on though and as a LFC supporter I love the engagement with other supporters on the forum and especially love the posts of PhaseofPlay and Babu who give me an education that you can only find on here.


I also feel that the moderators do a very hard job very well and we should acknowledge their hard work. I love the forum and the amount of excellent reading material by other posters make it an enjoyable experience for me.

[John C]

Imagine how much worse it will get when England FC get knocked out of the FIFA Wank Fest

Get out you         

[John C]

But it's true there are cliques on this forum and I'm not bothered by it but from my observations, particular as an outsider looking at the Brexit thread (as an American I couldn't vote, even though my wife and I have resided here for 2 years, although at the time of the vote it was 3 or 4 months) I see that anyone who pushes an alternative view to group of people who are vehemently pro EU they are chastised.

It is no surprise then that they daren't engage with those people on that particular thread because of the backlash they would get. If I would have been eligble to vote I'd have voted to remain, but I can definitely see there are some fundamental deficianies within the EU as a whole that certain people on this forum would like to use as a vehicle as to why they feel they aren't as pro-eu as others.


I certainly do not see any cyberbullying going on though and as a LFC supporter I love the engagement with other supporters on the forum and especially love the posts of PhaseofPlay and Babu who give me an education that you can only find on here.


I also feel that the moderators do a very hard job very well and we should acknowledge their hard work. I love the forum and the amount of excellent reading material by other posters make it an enjoyable experience for me.

[El Lobo]

You for one.

Ace 

[CraigDS]

Ace 

The unpopular clique.

[El Lobo]

The unpopular clique.