Author Topic: Alfie Evans  (Read 19387 times)

Offline WhereAngelsPlay

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Re: Alfie Evans
« Reply #80 on: April 25, 2018, 06:58:55 pm »
I think I read that the barrister for the father has just turned up today saying he's representing him.

They were getting legal help from that Christian Legal Center weren't they at first, they keeping both on?

That Christian legal centre seems to be run by one woman & is a fringe group at best (look at the retweets and replies on her twatter page) who seems to prey on this type of shit.

Just saw this,it is off the express story about this barrister.

« Last Edit: April 25, 2018, 07:00:52 pm by WhereAngelsPlay »
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Offline gazzalfc

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Re: Alfie Evans
« Reply #81 on: April 25, 2018, 07:07:01 pm »
They sounds like the legal team that supported those baker's that refused to serve a gay couple

Offline gazzalfc

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Re: Alfie Evans
« Reply #82 on: April 25, 2018, 07:19:51 pm »
The fucking right wing media in America are now picking up on this story as a way of attacking the NHS and universal healthcare

Makes my blood boil this.   :no :no

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Re: Alfie Evans
« Reply #83 on: April 25, 2018, 07:23:27 pm »
The fucking right wing media in America are now picking up on this story as a way of attacking the NHS and universal healthcare

Makes my blood boil this.   :no :no

As if the majority of working class families over there can afford the care provide to the Evans family.

It's just an attempt to open up the NHS to Americal insurance ghouls.

And avoid the American shite. Don't want your blood boiling over. ;)

Offline WhereAngelsPlay

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Re: Alfie Evans
« Reply #84 on: April 25, 2018, 07:23:56 pm »
The fucking right wing media in America are now picking up on this story as a way of attacking the NHS and universal healthcare

Makes my blood boil this.   :no :no

Fuck them,they love paying through their noses for inferior care.
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Offline Welshred

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Re: Alfie Evans
« Reply #85 on: April 25, 2018, 07:27:43 pm »
Paul Kelso

Breaking: Court told Tom Evans began private prosecution to have three names doctors charged with conspiracy to murder yesterday. Papers were served on doctors yesterday.

Paul Diamond, barrister for #AlfieEvans’ dad Tom Evans, admits he is “clutching at straws” but insists there are “no hostilities towards the NHS”.
Judge responds: “That simply doesn’t square” with conspiracy to commit murder allegations.

***

Parents should be jailed.

What the actual fuck? :no

This is why we have public liability insurance. This is why we keep thorough medical notes just so we can prove beyond doubt bullshit like this is just what it is. This fucking infuriates me. Those Dr's, nurses and other health professionals who have provided care for Alfie over the last year get treated like shit because Tom Evans can't fucking accept the advice of medical experts at not just Alder Hey but the hospital he wants the poor kid transferred to. This isn't a dad trying to save his son, this is a complete and utter moron loving the limelight that he's currently having. You don't hear anything or see anything from the mum do you? It's all the day. He's the one claiming lethal injection, he's the one flying to the fucking Vatican, he's the one outside with the mob stoking them up.

Someone above said that there are people out there who think Dr's should be their lackey and do what the want them to do and I can tell you now it's not just Dr's. People want the easy way out, they want the quick fix that may or may not work. I spent 45 minutes last week having a circular argument with a patient who couldn't accept the current evidence based long term management of their specific condition because they had before had "worked" despite them coming back for the same issue yearly for the past 15 years. It was 5pm, on a Friday, and the easy way out for me would have been to just do what they wanted and leave early - but my duty is to what is best for them and it meant I left late despite having plans with someone that night! The easy thing for Alder Hey and the NHS to do right now is to pack Alfie off to Italy and forget about him, but they aren't there to do the easy thing they are there to do the right thing. The sooner these self entitled cretins outside the doors of a childrens hospital understand this the better.

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Re: Alfie Evans
« Reply #86 on: April 25, 2018, 07:48:52 pm »
I never comment on news and current affairs but the problem is the average person is buying into the thought he can recover and Alder Hay are the ones refusing to help. My wife who is an intelligent enough woman was sat here trying to justify what's going on Alfie army etc. It's fucking heart braking for the family but they need to remember these are the memories they are going to have of him, unwell, struggling and full of blame
I'm telling you, Bowie died and it's all gone to fuck.

Offline B0151?

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Re: Alfie Evans
« Reply #87 on: April 25, 2018, 07:51:58 pm »
The dad is the ringleader. I appreciate he's going through hell but that doesn't mean his behaviour has anyway been acceptable. It's a fucking travesty the stain they have put on the hospital and the medical profession.

Offline Upinsmoke

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Re: Alfie Evans
« Reply #88 on: April 25, 2018, 07:53:23 pm »
He's been off the ventilator for nearly two days. Two days which he could of spent his last days at home. I agree with the medical experts that there isn't any hope. But they've withdrawn all care anyway, so it's just the family caring for him, which they could of done at home. The worst possible thing ever is dying in a fucking hospital when you could be at home and I'm speaking from experience. It's horrendous.

Offline Commie Bobbie

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Re: Alfie Evans
« Reply #89 on: April 25, 2018, 07:56:19 pm »
Paul Kelso

Breaking: Court told Tom Evans began private prosecution to have three names doctors charged with conspiracy to murder yesterday. Papers were served on doctors yesterday.

Paul Diamond, barrister for #AlfieEvans’ dad Tom Evans, admits he is “clutching at straws” but insists there are “no hostilities towards the NHS”.
Judge responds: “That simply doesn’t square” with conspiracy to commit murder allegations.

***

Parents should be jailed.

Question: Who's financing this private prosecution, because with respect the parents look like they're being played by some utter scumbags.
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Re: Alfie Evans
« Reply #90 on: April 25, 2018, 08:09:48 pm »
The fucking right wing media in America are now picking up on this story as a way of attacking the NHS and universal healthcare

Makes my blood boil this.   :no :no
These are the same people who hire Hopkins and Frottage

This is why we have public liability insurance. This is why we keep thorough medical notes just so we can prove beyond doubt bullshit like this is just what it is. This fucking infuriates me. Those Dr's, nurses and other health professionals who have provided care for Alfie over the last year get treated like shit because Tom Evans can't fucking accept the advice of medical experts at not just Alder Hey but the hospital he wants the poor kid transferred to. This isn't a dad trying to save his son, this is a complete and utter moron loving the limelight that he's currently having. You don't hear anything or see anything from the mum do you? It's all the day. He's the one claiming lethal injection, he's the one flying to the fucking Vatican, he's the one outside with the mob stoking them up.
hopefully there are some journos doing a bit more digging on this, the whole thing stinks

Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: Alfie Evans
« Reply #91 on: April 25, 2018, 08:22:10 pm »
Paul Kelso

Breaking: Court told Tom Evans began private prosecution to have three names doctors charged with conspiracy to murder yesterday. Papers were served on doctors yesterday.

Paul Diamond, barrister for #AlfieEvans’ dad Tom Evans, admits he is “clutching at straws” but insists there are “no hostilities towards the NHS”.
Judge responds: “That simply doesn’t square” with conspiracy to commit murder allegations.

***

Parents should be jailed.
And their solicitor and barristter. I am unsure of what remedies there are available to take the parents' legal counsel to task, but there are things which can (and should) be done about the parents:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vexatious_litigation

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_restraint_order

http://www.glovers.co.uk/news-articles53.html

As for the 'protesters', why have they not been locked up? I don't understand. (I don't live in the UK so there is much detail I miss).

Since this has gone through vigorous litigation already, with court judgements which the hospital is following, this is an obvious case of vexatious litigation.
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Offline RJH

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Re: Alfie Evans
« Reply #92 on: April 25, 2018, 08:54:10 pm »
They sounds like the legal team that supported those baker's that refused to serve a gay couple

Yeah, I think that was the Christian Legal Centre as well.
They seem to love encouraging people to find legal battles on dubious grounds - they've been involved with ones about wearing the cross at work as well.


The question is - how are they able to keep supporting these legal battles?
Either they're receiving some serious backing from somewhere, or they have a bunch of friendly lawyers willing to take on these cases pro-bono.

Offline frank23

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Re: Alfie Evans
« Reply #93 on: April 25, 2018, 10:30:02 pm »
It’s a very sad story. The poor boy is putting up a brave fight since the life support has been switched off.

Frank 23

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Re: Alfie Evans
« Reply #94 on: April 25, 2018, 10:52:12 pm »
The dad is the ringleader. I appreciate he's going through hell but that doesn't mean his behaviour has anyway been acceptable. It's a fucking travesty the stain they have put on the hospital and the medical profession.

 He's a fucking knobhead is what he is. Can't imagine what he's going through but accusing doctors and nurses of being murderers is absolutely not on and he seems to revel in the attention in all honesty. Absolutely loving his fifteen minutes.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2018, 11:03:07 pm by TravisBickle »
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Offline Snail

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Re: Alfie Evans
« Reply #95 on: April 25, 2018, 11:29:54 pm »
Can’t argue with that I suppose :lmao

Offline cdav

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Re: Alfie Evans
« Reply #96 on: April 25, 2018, 11:42:28 pm »
He's a fucking knobhead is what he is. Can't imagine what he's going through but accusing doctors and nurses of being murderers is absolutely not on and he seems to revel in the attention in all honesty. Absolutely loving his fifteen minutes.

His son is close to death and he is fucking off to court every day or flying to the Vatican. I can understand fighting this (not that I agree with it) but to spend so much time away from Alfie is weird- unless he literally cannot accept/ process the situation he is in.

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Re: Alfie Evans
« Reply #97 on: April 25, 2018, 11:51:47 pm »
It’s a very sad story. The poor boy is putting up a brave fight since the life support has been switched off.


It is, very sad, I think what everyone seems to have forgotten about is the young lad involved in all of this. I don't like it when courts get involved, at the end of the day, if the parents want to take him to Italy then why not let them?

That said, they certainly seem to have gone way over the top in the abuse dished out to the hospital staff

Very sad and not a situation I would wish on my worst enemy
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Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: Alfie Evans
« Reply #98 on: April 25, 2018, 11:57:59 pm »
It is, very sad, I think what everyone seems to have forgotten about is the young lad involved in all of this. I don't like it when courts get involved, at the end of the day, if the parents want to take him to Italy then why not let them?

That said, they certainly seem to have gone way over the top in the abuse dished out to the hospital staff

Very sad and not a situation I would wish on my worst enemy
Because Alfie isn't a toy or chattel. If his parents are incapable of looking out for the boy's best interests by allowing him some dignity (they'd keep him as living corpse ad infinitum if they could), then the decision about what to do with Alfie's last days is rightly taken out of their hands.
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Re: Alfie Evans
« Reply #99 on: April 26, 2018, 12:07:47 am »
His son is close to death and he is fucking off to court every day or flying to the Vatican. I can understand fighting this (not that I agree with it) but to spend so much time away from Alfie is weird- unless he literally cannot accept/ process the situation he is in.
He believes, wrongly or otherwise that Alfie wants him to fight for him - him "fucking off to court" and the "Vatican" have without a doubt prolonged Alfie's treatment/life support. And of course he cannot process the situation who could? He said in the latest video he hasn't slept for 3 days straight now, can't imagine what it's doing to him, a 21 year old lad himself.
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Offline Guz-kop

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Re: Alfie Evans
« Reply #100 on: April 26, 2018, 12:21:55 am »
It is, very sad, I think what everyone seems to have forgotten about is the young lad involved in all of this. I don't like it when courts get involved, at the end of the day, if the parents want to take him to Italy then why not let them?

That said, they certainly seem to have gone way over the top in the abuse dished out to the hospital staff

Very sad and not a situation I would wish on my worst enemy

Doctors' ultimate responsibility is for the patient first and foremost. The patient is the little boy and not the parents. It's exceptionally rare for doctors and parents to disagree significantly on treatment goals in paediatrics. They usually come to some kind of compromise because no medical team wants to put parents through hell but if the medical profession feel that letting the parents take the boy out of hospital could lead to further harm and suffering for the boy they are duty bound to get the courts involved. Dignity and suffering comes into best interests. As a broad principle medical ethics feel that even babies who can't speak have the same rights as an adult and should be treated as individuals, not an entity that belongs to the parents.

It's really the same with any age group. Lots of people think they have the right to determine what health decisions are made for their next of kin - they don't. Only if a pre determined power of attorney for health does that real legal right come into it. Treating teams are encouraged to involve family members, next of kin etc. because it's good medicine and people close to patients who can't communicate in theory may know their wishes more than strangers but the ultimate responsibility for the medical professions is to act in what they perceive as the best interest for the patient. This is the case at whatever age. And it's not like these decisions are made on a whim by one individual. Especially when it comes to kids, these are multidisciplinary decisions agonisingly made by people who have to weigh up commonly known science, rare science, anecdotal experience and the wishes of family. Really can't fathom what the dad is going through - he's only 21 himself ffs. That sort of situation will make you do all sorts of things. Rightly or wrongly I can't even contemplate being in that position. But for these random protestors to call people who work at Alder Hey as murderers is really vile. Hopefully the hospital will be providing support for their own staff's mental well being amongst all of this too. Some of the reactions they've had are potentially soul destroying.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2018, 12:25:50 am by Guz-kop »
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Offline the 92A

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Re: Alfie Evans
« Reply #101 on: April 26, 2018, 12:26:47 am »
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Offline disgraced cake

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Re: Alfie Evans
« Reply #102 on: April 26, 2018, 12:44:30 am »
Agreed on the points about the Americans picking this up, specifically your FOX's who want to tarnish the great work done by Alder Hey
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Re: Alfie Evans
« Reply #103 on: April 26, 2018, 02:14:18 am »
It’s a very sad story. The poor boy is putting up a brave fight since the life support has been switched off.

With respect, he's not 'putting up a fight.'That kind of language is part of the problem, along with the horribly leading 'Save Alfie' chants and slogans. They paint the picture that he's consciously fighting to live, doing it all on his own despite the doctors not helping.

In reality, the child has lost 70% of his brain fibre and it's only during seizures that he registers brain activity. There's nothing that can be done to save his life or bring him back to consciousness.

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Re: Alfie Evans
« Reply #104 on: April 26, 2018, 04:50:58 am »
With respect, he's not 'putting up a fight.'That kind of language is part of the problem, along with the horribly leading 'Save Alfie' chants and slogans. They paint the picture that he's consciously fighting to live, doing it all on his own despite the doctors not helping.

In reality, the child has lost 70% of his brain fibre and it's only during seizures that he registers brain activity. There's nothing that can be done to save his life or bring him back to consciousness.


I was going to post the same thing.
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Offline kopite321

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Re: Alfie Evans
« Reply #105 on: April 26, 2018, 06:28:07 am »
Tell you what … it’s an absolute disgrace the way the staff and the name of one of the greatest children’s hospitals in the world has been demonized by so called supporters of Alfie, I include the father in this also.
Many of us living in the Merseyside area know someone who’s kids have been treated at this hospital and I believe many other families from around the UK are also referred to Alder Hey. This hospital is renowned across the globe for its world class treatment of children and its quality of care.

To witness the mob rule outside the door of a hospital where its staff give selfless care and support to children and their relatives day in day out is a national disgrace. Parents and family members of kids currently undergoing treatment have their own battles which are just as painful for them as it is for Alfie’s parents, family and friends, yet they are exposed to that shite circus on their arrival at the hospital.

Great hospital, great staff doing wonderful things day in day out in the course of children’s health care.  I do hope Alfie and his parents find peace but not at the expense of others and the demonizing of a hospital and its hard working dedicated staff… its bang out of order…
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Offline planet-terror

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Re: Alfie Evans
« Reply #106 on: April 26, 2018, 08:04:51 am »
It's an absolute minefield at the minute for anyone who has any differing opinion to Alfies army. I've been called gullible for listening to multiple experts, reading the court documents and coming to my own conclusion that Alfie, as sad as the situation is, has no treatment options. Prolonging a life when doctors don't believe it's in the patients best interest goes against their own oath to do what is best for everyone.

And that is the crux of this issue. It's not about the parents feelings (although I'm certain Alder Hey have operated with great compassion and care as they do for thousands of others) it's about the young child that is heartbreakingly dying because of a condition we don't understand and can't treat. Alfies Army has become a burden for the family without them realising. The media attention it has garnered, the anger and viciousness directed towards a hospital who have already kept Alfie on ventilation for over a year, the whole thing is a circus.

The fake news and false hope being pedalled is evident when people are arguing that Alfie should be able to go to Italy to "give him a chance", not even the Italian doctors give him a chance. He's terminal, but that's not evident to any of them, because they've not bothered to read the details and are being called to arms on exploitative facebook videos designed to tug at heart strings.

Let the young boy go, as hard as it may be.
Well said
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Offline AlphaDelta

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Re: Alfie Evans
« Reply #107 on: April 26, 2018, 08:30:35 am »
Its a fucking disgrace, the whole rent-a-mob, media circus, crowds of people trying to storm a children's hospital, the whole thing, outrageous. The dad is a fucking scally who is playing to the masses, why hasn't the boys mum been giving interviews?
Social media is full of people who are suddenly medical experts, pediatrician know alls and pharmacists who think they know what is right, the reality is these scruffy fucking bastards are scrounging Jeremy Kyle meffs who spend their life on Facebook looking for ways to be 'fewwwwwmin'.

I get the bus to and from work which goes past Alder Hey and have seen this so called 'Alfies Army' a few times. Scallies in North Face hoodies, fame-hungry birds, all kicking and banging at cars and buses that dont show their support.
If anyone dares to question them on social media they are met with a barrage of abuse and threats.

The bastards were playing Celine Dion songs, had a bouncy castle and deck chairs outside the other day.

Lets put this into perspective, they are screaming abuse at nurses, doctors and anyone working at Alder Hey, calling them murderers, making threats.

I feel sorry for the boy, but this has gone too far and that gobshite of a dad needs taking to one side.

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Offline OneTouchFooty

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Re: Alfie Evans
« Reply #108 on: April 26, 2018, 08:33:36 am »
Makes me very angry at all the vermin attaching themselves to the poor lad to score political points and the treatment of NHS staff aswell. This reactionary mob stupidity and ignorance is something to behold.

Offline Upinsmoke

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Re: Alfie Evans
« Reply #109 on: April 26, 2018, 08:40:20 am »
^ The family requested for the "army" to be peaceful. If you follow the updates on Facebook (You don't) you would see the mother is quite vocal too.

I think he should be allowed home to die, that's all that's happening in the hospital. So just let him home, he would only be getting water and oxygen anyway. Oh and I don't wear north face and I've got a job, is that alright or does it not fit?

Offline CraigDS

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Re: Alfie Evans
« Reply #110 on: April 26, 2018, 08:43:27 am »
I think he should be allowed home to die, that's all that's happening in the hospital.

What treatment is he still receiving? I know he isn’t on life support, but is he getting anything else and would this be possible at home?

Offline WhereAngelsPlay

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Re: Alfie Evans
« Reply #111 on: April 26, 2018, 08:47:30 am »
^ The family requested for the "army" to be peaceful. If you follow the updates on Facebook (You don't) you would see the mother is quite vocal too.

I think he should be allowed home to die, that's all that's happening in the hospital. So just let him home, he would only be getting water and oxygen anyway. Oh and I don't wear north face and I've got a job, is that alright or does it not fit?

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Offline gazzalfc

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Re: Alfie Evans
« Reply #112 on: April 26, 2018, 09:08:08 am »
It appears that the parents have dropped attempts to take him to Italy and are now focusing on taking him home. But have still said that they will take legal action to make that happen

He feels that because Alfie is still alive without intensive life support that he has 'won' because it proves that the doctors at Alder Hey misdiagnosed him.

Offline glewis93

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Re: Alfie Evans
« Reply #113 on: April 26, 2018, 09:11:58 am »
It appears that the parents have dropped attempts to take him to Italy and are now focusing on taking him home. But have still said that they will take legal action to make that happen

He feels that because Alfie is still alive without intensive life support that he has 'won' because it proves that the doctors at Alder Hey misdiagnosed him.

Which of course they didn't because the poor child is still going to die regardless.

I've heard this "will live for 3 minutes" after ventilation is removed thing spread a lot but I can't actually find a source that says that was ever the case?

Does anyone know where that came from?
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Offline Upinsmoke

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Re: Alfie Evans
« Reply #114 on: April 26, 2018, 09:26:02 am »
What treatment is he still receiving? I know he isn’t on life support, but is he getting anything else and would this be possible at home?

Oxygen, water and milk. He isnt receiving life support. Think he might be getting an anti seizure drug too.


I've heard this "will live for 3 minutes" after ventilation is removed thing spread a lot but I can't actually find a source that says that was ever the case?

Does anyone know where that came from?

Yeah I've seen the quote, I will try and find it but the echo did publicise it (They couldn't name the lawyer representing AH for legal reasons) but it's out there. Then when they went back recently the lawyer said nobody ever said he would die within minutes and it would be quick etc.

I can't understand why they won't let him at least go home. Then the doctors and nurses can get back to doing what they love doing, the whole circus outside the hospital will go and Alfie will be allowed to die in the comfort of his own home.

Offline CraigDS

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Re: Alfie Evans
« Reply #115 on: April 26, 2018, 09:28:13 am »
Oxygen, water and milk. He isnt receiving life support. Think he might be getting an anti seizure drug too.

Can this all be provided at home? Can he be assessed and monitored correctly during his final hours/days and any care that may be required to alleviate pain and suffering be provided?

Offline Upinsmoke

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Re: Alfie Evans
« Reply #116 on: April 26, 2018, 09:28:40 am »
If you weren't on the bus he isn't talking about you is he.

He isn't talking about people on the bus, he's talking about people outside the hospital causing issues for people passing on buses etc. But he's also generalizing that it's only people who dress a certain way, aren't in employment and having particular viewing habits.

It's not.

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Re: Alfie Evans
« Reply #117 on: April 26, 2018, 09:31:16 am »
I can't understand why they won't let him at least go home. Then the doctors and nurses can get back to doing what they love doing, the whole circus outside the hospital will go and Alfie will be allowed to die in the comfort of his own home.
their job is to do best by the patient not do what the parents want, that’s why he’s there

As for the quote, did it come from his dad, the same one who said the doctors told him he was right to do what he did?

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Re: Alfie Evans
« Reply #118 on: April 26, 2018, 09:32:16 am »
It appears that the parents have dropped attempts to take him to Italy and are now focusing on taking him home. But have still said that they will take legal action to make that happen

He feels that because Alfie is still alive without intensive life support that he has 'won' because it proves that the doctors at Alder Hey misdiagnosed him.

The doctors told us my Mum had 3 days left to live, it took her another 2 weeks to die and when they said she wouldn't wake up in the last week, she did and spoke to us. Just because she did things they didn't expect didn't mean they misdiagnosed, she still died.
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Offline losCHUNK

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Re: Alfie Evans
« Reply #119 on: April 26, 2018, 09:47:28 am »
Can this all be provided at home? Can he be assessed and monitored correctly during his final hours/days and any care that may be required to alleviate pain and suffering be provided?

I think that's what the docs are discussing today