Topic: Offensive 96 t shirt

[24/7]

Well, you could have worded that better.......

[El Lobo]

Well, you could have worded that better.......

He couldn’t, because...

As for this...

...you can fuck right off, you're obviously trolling here. I'm not one to jump on people's post history, but yours is shocking.

Is absolutely right, and practically every one of his posts proves it. Astonishing that he’s still here!

[24/7]

He couldn’t....

Am saying he could have been a little more sensitive in expressing his view and I'm interested in his response, given how his post is upsetting a few people (understandably so). Given the post and warnings history though I'm not sure empathy is his strongest point......so you might be right. Let's see what happens next.

[DaveLFC]

Intentional or not, they have to pull it now they are aware of the reference and the offence this is causing. Unfortunately some sick individuals will look to buy this and claim they are just Bob Marley fans, I don't think I need to explain who they could be.

I haven't purchased anything from Top Shop for over 20 years anyway, if I wanted that look I'd just buy a shirt from a normal shop but two sizes too small for myself.

[AlphaDelta]

Maybe it was unintentional, but how the fook can that design go through so many sign off's, meetings, manufacturing and end up available for sale, without someone, somewhere thinking "oh shit, thats not right".

Dickheads 

[El Lobo]

Maybe it was unintentional, but how the fook can that design go through so many sign off's, meetings, manufacturing and end up available for sale, without someone, somewhere thinking "oh shit, thats not right".

Dickheads 

It doesn’t

And it’s not just ‘over sensitive Liverpool fans’. If I walked into a room of random people and showed them that image and asked what they thought of, a lot more would say Hillsborough and very few (if any) would say Bob Marley. It’s been huge national and global news for a long time. Putting something like this down to sensitive Liverpool fans is an absolute disgrace.

[Medellin]

It's offensive whether intended or not.

[gazzam1963]

There are a fair few coincidences there , the number 96 , the size and positioning the numbers to look like a football shirt and then the colour red  as well , find it really hard to believe no one has flagged that up in the process or if they have they've been overruled .

[JerseyKloppite]

Will not be possible to know for sure whether this is an intentional act by someone in their design team or a really unfortunate coincidence unless Topshop come out and admit there’s some utter prick in their design team. The explanations as to its origin seem plausible, but if the design has been created or approved by people in the UK you would hope they would see the reference and stop this going out. Sadly some people aren’t perceptive or as aware as we would like them to be about these things.

In any case they should apologise for the offence caused whether intentional or otherwise and pull the shirt. An explanation would be helpful.

[Filler.]

The 90 Nowhere shirt is just adding to my genuine 'er?' this morning. Can someone find a link to the line of shirts? Are there more? Fascinating.

[sms1986]

The 90 Nowhere shirt is just adding to my genuine 'er?' this morning. Can someone find a link to the line of shirts? Are there more? Fascinating.

There’s the red and white ones and a blue one with 95 boroughs on which is just as ugly.

[Funky_Gibbons]

Whether the Bob Marley tribute is true or not, there's no chance they didn't see this as an opportunity to sell shirts to rival fans.

[Jake]

Absolute coincidence I believe, and now they've realised it's offensive, they've pulled it.

Should be end of the matter.

[Qston]

I doubt it was intentional. All that it proves is that there are a lot of thick and uniformed people out there who probably haven`t read a newspaper or watched the news in their lives. They probably get their news from twatter by following Trump.

Quite how it has got beyond a variety of checks baffling.

Oh, and its owned by someone who I utterly detest

[Millie]

Well it's on the front page of the BBC website - so they had better take action and provide an explantion.

I don't see where Topman have said they realise it's offensive.  As far as I can see they haven't even commented.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-43424172

[Millie]

Not buying it's a coincidence.  The back of it looks exactly the same as a football shirt.

[Red Viper]

What the fucking fuck is this?!

Fucking coincidence my arse.

[sms1986]

Whether the Bob Marley tribute is true or not, there's no chance they didn't see this as an opportunity to sell shirts to rival fans.

If it was true, then why would they see it as such an opportunity? It’s a stupid oversight to make and they’ll pull their ugly shirt from sale, but I really don’t think they intended any offence or distress.

[sms1986]

Absolute coincidence I believe, and now they've realised it's offensive, they've pulled it.

Should be end of the matter.

It should be, hopefully this will have an effect and companies will be more careful. They probably won’t as these things seem to be common, but you never know.

[jamie_c]

Will not be possible to know for sure whether this is an intentional act by someone in their design team or a really unfortunate coincidence unless Topshop come out and admit there’s some utter prick in their design team. The explanations as to its origin seem plausible, but if the design has been created or approved by people in the UK you would hope they would see the reference and stop this going out. Sadly some people aren’t perceptive or as aware as we would like them to be about these things.

In any case they should apologise for the offence caused whether intentional or otherwise and pull the shirt. An explanation would be helpful.

We live in a very fragmented world where it’s very easy to avoid the news if it does not have an impact on you.  If I showed that shirt to 100 people at work, maybe 2-3 would pick up on the reference.  To be honest if I showed it to my wife I doubt she’d get it without prompting.

If you went into any town city outside of Liverpool and asked how many people died at Hillsborough I bet you hardly any would get the right number.  And a frankly scary amount would have no clue what Hillsborough even was.

It makes no sense for this to be anything other than a mistake.  It has the potential to offend people so should be taken off sale but that should be the end of it.

[zero zero]

Fuck right off

No way is that a bob marley thing. That's a blatant dig at the 96. Karma, red, with 96 on the back. You can fuck off.

Totally agree. Coincidence my arse. Since when has the year of release of a song warranted such prominence?

Thanks for the link Rob1966. Polite email sent.

[Funky_Gibbons]

If it was true, then why would they see it as such an opportunity? It’s a stupid oversight to make and they’ll pull their ugly shirt from sale, but I really don’t think they intended any offence or distress.

How many levels of approval do you think a product has to go through at a company like Topman? They have marketing people, product managers, designers etc etc who would all need to sign this design off.

I find it seriously hard to believe no-one within the organisation didn’t recognise the numerous references on that shirt and the links to Hillsborough. At best it’s negligence, at worst it was seen as an opportunity to sell shirts to rival football fans.

[JerseyKloppite]

Whether the Bob Marley tribute is true or not, there's no chance they didn't see this as an opportunity to sell shirts to rival fans.

With respect that’s not true. One, it remains plausible that people in the design team didn’t see the connection. It might not have been designed in the U.K., or approved by a small number of people who aren’t as aware of Hillsborough as we are, or as they should be. If they didn’t spot it then they can’t be said to be deliberately selling them for this reason as they wouldn’t understand this. People talk about “numerous references but the only really obvious ones I can see are the number 96 and the colour red. The Rose doesn’t have much relevance to Hillsborough (I appreciate it could be a white Yorkshire rose but it’s an oblique reference if any) and the wording is not specifically Hillsborough related but in fact comes from slurs that Liverpool fans have endured as a result. Again those would be easy to miss if you didn’t know the full context of Hillsborough, let alone anything at all about the event. I’d be interested to know how many people in the U.K. saw and signed off on this design.

Two, it would be utterly bizarre for topshop, who aren’t exactly the first company people would associate football fans with, to try to target the (thankfully small) number of utter fucking cretins who might buy the shirt to wind LFC fans up, all for the sake of awful publicity. If anything I’d say it was more likely the behaviour of one complete twat with an agenda who did this to be a c*nt rather than an act by topshop to sell shirts.

It’s possible, I’m not saying topshop are definitely without blame and as I posted above it’s unlikely we’ll ever know (even if someone did have a deliberate hand in this, unless there’s an email chain somewhere proving it they’ll likely plead ignorance too). But to say there’s “no chance” just isn’t true. Again, as fans we naturally spot these things without having to think about it. I did the first time I saw the shirt. But others, particularly those with no interest in football, simply aren’t as aware of it. Most people will know about Hillsborough and have an understanding of what it was, but not everyone will understand the reference to 96, just as they might not spot ‘58 as a reference to the Munich air disaster or 39 or ‘85 as references to Heysel.

Either way this is a fucking mess and TopShop should be explaining themselves pronto.

[Fordy]

They better stop selling this and explain.

Email them.. out of order.

[sms1986]

How many levels of approval do you think a product has to go through at a company like Topman? They have marketing people, product managers, designers etc etc who would all need to sign this design off.

I find it seriously hard to believe no-one within the organisation didn’t recognise the numerous references on that shirt and the links to Hillsborough. At best it’s negligence, at worst it was seen as an opportunity to sell shirts to rival football fans.

Most rival football fans aren't the kind to make fun of Hillsborough, though, and tend to be respectful of the victims. There's some idiots who think it's OK to mock the 96, but the market for a shirt to do so would be very small and probably not profitable.

[zero zero]

As is Topman is going to release a shirt mocking Hillsborough, like fucking hell come on like 

You're like a weather vane for practically any subject to do with our club, just confirming I'm on the right side of this issue.

[Rich]

An unfortunate coincidence but they need to acknowledge that and remove the shirts.

There are millions of people out there who don't immediately associate 96 with Hillsborough and those in the design process, who might usually notice, could have already been told the context of Bob Marley and their minds didn't consider the wider picture.

[24/7]

Absolute coincidence I believe, and now they've realised it's offensive, they've pulled it.

Have they officially pulled it? Source Jake?

[Funky_Gibbons]

With respect that’s not true. One, it remains plausible that people in the design team didn’t see the connection. It might not have been designed in the U.K., or approved by a small number of people who aren’t as aware of Hillsborough as we are, or as they should be. If they didn’t spot it then they can’t be said to be deliberately selling them for this reason as they wouldn’t understand this.

Two, it would be utterly bizarre for topshop, who aren’t exactly the first company people would associate football fans with, to try to target the (thankfully small) number of utter fucking cretins who might buy the shirt to wind LFC fans up, all for the sake of awful publicity.

It’s possible, I’m not saying topshop are definitely without blame and as I posted above it’s unlikely we’ll ever know (even if someone did have a deliberate hand in this, unless there’s an email chain somewhere proving it they’ll likely plead ignorance too). But to say there’s “no chance” just isn’t true. Again, as fans we naturally spot these things without having to think about it. I did the first time I saw the shirt. But others, particularly those with no interest in football, simply aren’t as aware of it. Most people will know about Hillsborough and have an understanding of what it was, but not everyone will understand the reference to 96, just as they might not spot ‘58 as a defence to the Munich air disaster or 39 or ‘85 as references to Heysel.

Maybe ‘no chance’ is an exaggeration but a company as big as Topshop will have levels of management who sign off on a design, marketing managers, designers, product managers etc etc whose job it is to research these things.

[bird_lfc]

Part of me thinks it’s a sick inside ‘joke’ from an individual who has seen the conisidwntal information and has taken advantage of it.  I can certainly see why people would think this

If it is a coninsidence and it’s they have been alerted to that by Liverpool fans and it’s now been pulled they deserve some credit for that at least

[JerseyKloppite]

Maybe ‘no chance’ is an exaggeration but a company as big as Topshop will have levels of management who sign off on a design, marketing managers, designers, product managers etc etc whose job it is to research these things.

I agree. Topshop are somewhere between unreasonably ignorant about something they could and should have known better about, or intentionally seeking to insult and/or profit from the victims of Hillsborough. But that is a huge spectrum and without knowing more it’s difficult to see where they sit. Either way though it reflects poorly on them, just to what degree.

Still, I can’t believe they’ve not sought to clarify this quicker when it’s front page news on the BBC and they’ll have had hundreds of emails.

[CraigDS]

Have they officially pulled it? Source Jake?

The BBC article says it is no longer available online. I imagine their media dept is sorting a press release now.

Looks a bad coincidence to me, but then wouldn’t be surprised if someone in the design dept noticed it and let it slip through IF it was done over here. Although imagine it’s likely it was designed elsewhere, signed off there and then had someone quickly sign it off over here who might not have had any clue.

[24/7]

Still, I can’t believe they’ve not sought to clarify this and withdraw the shirt quicker.

I can see their Press Office shitting their pants and wondering how the fuck to get out of it.....but the longer they leave it without comment, the worse it looks.

[Lfsea]

It's almost certainly far more nuanced a situation than the initial reaction has credited it for.

From a Liverpool fans' perspective it is absolutely awful. You can see all the pieces are there for a "what the fuck" reaction. And rightly so.

However, railing against Topshop assumes a number of things; that the t-shirt range was designed in the UK, that anyone dealing with the t-shirt would know enough about football for this to trigger their minds, and that a set of designers and managers would knowingly commit career suicide to print a vendetta t-shirt that might sell 2-3k units at most.

Clothing lines like this aren't mulled over by thousands of industry doyens, it'll have been conceived, and green lit by perhaps a couple of dozen people at most. My friend who designs for another high street retailer has an absolutely tiny team that are constantly under pressure to knock out trendy designs and in her words "we often put out any old shit to complete a collection".

Because we as Liverpool fans are so steeped in 1989, the 96 and all the shit that came in the next 30 years, we have every right to be sensitive about it, but let's not seriously think this is a crazy conspiracy by a high street retailer to get under the skin of Reds.

For some cultural context, 96 was the year that one of the greatest rappers in history - Tupac Shakur - was killed in a drive-by shooting in Vegas. Rumours abound that it was a contract killing ordered by rivals of Shakur (including Biggie Smalls and members of the Cripps). A ton of the narrative around Tupac death and the subsequent murder of Smalls surrounded karma and revenge - the themes we see in the back of the item. This t-shirt is as likely to allude to that - remember that Topshop is a lifestyle brand, lapped up by teens and 20-somethings - as it is to a football tragedy which, the general young public have a scintilla of consciousness of, compared to musicians and artists they love/admire.

Hopefully Topshop pull the top out of respect, but it looks to be a very unfortunate coincidence to me.

[Thomas]

Only just seen this. I am lost for words.

[B0151?]

Its a Bob Marley song from 1996, read the lyrics to the song like, the outrage is nonsense. It clearly isn't a reference to Hillsborough and its extremely strange that people are trying to make that connection. Not everything is about Liverpool ffs

it might be a sick coincidence but it's defo not a reference to the Bob Marley song, that makes even less sense (you'd think you'd have realised that with the other shirt you posted which has nothing to.do with him or anyone) so you can fuck off with that tone

[Medellin]

Radio City have reported it has been pulled too for what it's worth.
I would like to know the person who designed this,maybe that would shed more light on it.
I do think this isn't just a coincidence.

[Filler.]

Because we as Liverpool fans are so steeped in 1989, the 96 and all the shit that came in the next 30 years, we have every right to be sensitive about it, but let's not seriously think this is a crazy conspiracy by a high street retailer to get under the skin of Reds.

Agreed - don't think anyone in their right minds think that. And the Tupac reference makes a bit more sense to me than some release by Bob Marley. The rose looks a bit more logical too, as that was doing my swede in, trying to tie that in.

[CraigDS]

Agreed - don't think anyone in their right minds think that. And the Tupac reference makes a bit more sense to me than some release by Bob Marley. The rose looks a bit more logical too, as that was doing my swede in, trying to tie that in.

The rose appears on the 90 top they sell too, so it could just be part of the branding for that range.

[sms1986]

The rose appears on the 90 top they sell too, so it could just be part of the branding for that range.

I think if the number or the colour was different I don't think anyone would associate the shirt with Hillsborough, it's just that the combination together is an unfortunate coincidence.