Topic: Catalan Independence

[elsewhere]

Some terrible scenes on twitter about police brutality in Barcelona. If Spanish government is thinking dragging voters out of schools and beating them is the way to unite the country, they are doing it wrong.

[reniformis]

I wouldn't want to be at the Real v Espanyol game tonight 

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Thugs just a thugging

https://twitter.com/hectorjuanatey/status/914427797485047809

https://twitter.com/hectorjuanatey/status/914409538161397762

[WhereAngelsPlay]

I wouldn't want to be at the Real v Espanyol game tonight 

Catalan local media are reporting today’s La Liga game between Barcelona and Las Palmas may be suspended after Las Palmas announced a Spanish flag has been embodied on their kit to show support for “the unity of Spain.”

In a statement, the club said: “Today, what we do is very simple. With the Spanish flag embroidered in our equipment we want to vote unequivocally in an imaginary vote to which nobody has summoned us: we believe in the unity of Spain.”

https://twitter.com/UDLP_Oficial/status/914430897587392512

[elsewhere]

I hope Barcelona embarrasses Las Palmas 10-0

[TepidT2O]

Breaking news on BBC that the police are firing rubber bullets into the crowd.

This is fucking insane...  rubber bullets, totally out of all proportion ... madness...

[reniformis]

https://twitter.com/UDLP_Oficial/status/914430897587392512

Kinell, that's mental. They should be hauled over the coals for that, it's incitement. They've put their own fans and players in danger, I hope Barca don't rise to the bait.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Rubber bullets,beating old ladies up,dragging ladies by their hair and basically beating the shit out of anybody within striking distance.

I can see ETA rearming after this shite.

[Blinis]

Kinell, that's mental. They should be hauled over the coals for that, it's incitement. They've put their own fans and players in danger, I hope Barca don't rise to the bait.

UEFA and FIFA will probably act on this.

I'm all in favour of independence referendums, as long as nobody cries when the night after the independence result the former imperial power cuts the electricity and water supplies.

[Xabi Gerrard]

Kinell, that's mental. They should be hauled over the coals for that, it's incitement. They've put their own fans and players in danger, I hope Barca don't rise to the bait.

Is that incitement or is it a show of unity? Back in the 2014 Scottish Indyref, I was desperate for Scotland to stay in the UK. I'm not Scottish, but I love Scotland and I love being part of the same country as Scotland. If Liverpool would have been playing, say, Celtic in Europe that week, I'd have been happy with Liverpool wearing a small Union Jack to show Scotland just how much we like being part of the same country. That's how I see this Las Palmas thing - am I way off the mark?

Thugs just a thugging

https://twitter.com/hectorjuanatey/status/914427797485047809

https://twitter.com/hectorjuanatey/status/914409538161397762

That is absolutely disgusting. It's never, ever, right to see that, but when you see it so close to home it hits really hard.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Spanish media are reporting someone hit in the eye with a rubber bullet has been taken into surgery at Sant Pau hospital in Barcelona.

[TepidT2O]

Rubber bullets,beating old ladies up,dragging ladies by their hair and basically beating the shit out of anybody within striking distance.

I can see ETA rearming after this shite.

ETA are basques aren’t they?

[Elmo!]

Is that incitement or is it a show of unity? Back in the 2014 Scottish Indyref, I was desperate for Scotland to stay in the UK. I'm not Scottish, but I love Scotland and I love being part of the same country as Scotland. If Liverpool would have been playing, say, Celtic in Europe that week, I'd have been happy with Liverpool wearing a small Union Jack to show Scotland just how much we like being part of the same country. That's how I see this Las Palmas thing - am I way off the mark?

That is absolutely disgusting. It's never, ever, right to see that, but when you see it so close to home it hits really hard.

Liverpool putting union flags on their strips for a game against Celtic? I'd say that is definitely incitement....

Probably not the best example to use.

[reniformis]

Is that incitement or is it a show of unity? Back in the 2014 Scottish Indyref, I was desperate for Scotland to stay in the UK. I'm not Scottish, but I love Scotland and I love being part of the same country as Scotland. If Liverpool would have been playing, say, Celtic in Europe that week, I'd have been happy with Liverpool wearing a small Union Jack to show Scotland just how much we like being part of the same country. That's how I see this Las Palmas thing - am I way off the mark?

I think you're way off. If English police were violently dragging kids and old people out of Glasgow polling stations and firing rubber bullets at them would you be happy covering our players in Union Jacks and sending them into the middle of Celtic Park? It's not about the politics, it's about peoples safety.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

ETA are basques aren’t they?

Yeah but they have been commenting and keeping a close eye on this,they only disarmed on the promise of a political soloution/negotiations.

After watching this and with no movement on those negotiations I just have a feeling that they will be having second thoughts.

Today could and should've been peaceful but the Spanish gov didn't want it to be.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Liverpool putting union flags on their strips for a game against Celtic? I'd say that is definitely incitement....

Probably not the best example to use.

 

[Onward Liverpudlian]

It's depressing the way the Spanish police are reacting to the vote. They will make things worse.

The right thing to do would have been to ignore the vote as illegal - it is constitutionally illegal anyway and most 'no' voters are boycotting it so that's another reason why the result will be invalid and ignored by Spain and other countries. They did it the right way in Scotland a few years back, all sides agreed on the legality of the referendum and you had a proper campaign recognised by both sides and governments and overseas observers. Referendums are useless when only one side turn out.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

I've been following it over at the Guardian,they just posted another video of the pigs attacking people who had their arms up.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2017/oct/01/catalan-independence-referendum-spain-catalonia-vote-live  Scan down to 12.43 on the time line.

[Xabi Gerrard]

I think you're way off. If English police were violently dragging kids and old people out of Glasgow polling stations and firing rubber bullets at them would you be happy covering our players in Union Jacks and sending them into the middle of Celtic Park? It's not about the politics, it's about peoples safety.

Fair enough. Yeah this police violence is taking it to another level - if there was no violence though (which could have been the case when the decision was made to wear the flag) I'd probably see it as a nice gesture.

Liverpool putting union flags on their strips for a game against Celtic? I'd say that is definitely incitement....

Probably not the best example to use.

Haha, my bad. Complete brain fart on my part! You know what I meant

[Peabee]

Yeah but they have been commenting and keeping a close eye on this,they only disarmed on the promise of a political soloution/negotiations.

After watching this and with no movement on those negotiations I just have a feeling that they will be having second thoughts.

Today could and should've been peaceful but the Spanish gov didn't want it to be.

There was no chance of that as the Spanish constitution states that any referendum/vote (on the independence of any Spanish region) without consent of the Spanish Govt is illegal.  Even though I disagree with the action taken, it was clear there would be enforcement by the police. 

[Kenny's Jacket]

You can’t play in a different countries league though, surely??

Better tell Swansea and Monaco then.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

There was no chance of that as the Spanish constitution states that any referendum/vote (on the independence of any Spanish region) without consent of the Spanish Govt is illegal.  Even though I disagree with the action taken, it was clear there would be enforcement by the police.

They could've just said that the vote is null and void,they did not have to go in mob handed like the gang of c*nts that they are.

They are beating up Grannies ffs.

[Xabi Gerrard]

Better tell Swansea and Monaco then.

I keep seeing Welsh clubs being mentioned when people ask about Barcelona remaining in La Liga after Catalan independence. It's not the same thing as Wales and England are two subnational entities which are part of the same sovereign nation. Catalonian separatists are seeking to become an entirely independent sovereign nation.

Monaco (Ligue Un), Wellington (A-League) and the Canadian clubs in MLS are good comparisons though.

[TepidT2O]

Better tell Swansea and Monaco then.

Principalities ... not really different countries in that sense

[Peabee]

They could've just said that the vote is null and void,they did not have to go in mob handed like the gang of c*nts that they are.

They are beating up Grannies ffs.

Agreed.  I saw a clip of an old lady being dragged out of the crowd. It's disgraceful.  I was just saying that as the actual vote is illegal then the police have to enforce it.  The govt should have prevented this though. 

[Xabi Gerrard]

Principalities ... not really different countries in that sense

True for Wales. Monaco is a completely independent sovereign nation from France though, despite being called a Principality.

[Kenny's Jacket]

The fucking fascist thugs areb slinging OAPs about.

Could've just said that they do not recognise the result but oh no insted they go in mob handed.

And they wonder why the people on the rock want fuck all to do with them.

I did wonder why they didn't just say, have your silly little illegal referendum. Were they scared of the result? However they way they have gone about it, you have to wonder who is going to risk going out to vote to stay Spanish. Therefore it makes the independence vote more likely.

[TepidT2O]

True for Wales. Monaco is a completely independent sovereign nation from France though, despite being called a Principality.

Didn’t realise it was totally independent

[Kenny's Jacket]

Principalities ... not really different countries in that sense

So you dont recognise Wales as a country. Its own FA, Its own league system etc.

You sound like a member of the Spanish government?

What about Gretna then? 

[TepidT2O]

So you dont recognise Wales as a country. Its own FA, Its own league system etc.

You sound like a member of the Spanish government?

What about Gretna then? 

I sound like a member of the Spanish government...??

Oooooooookay

[Elmo!]

So you dont recognise Wales as a country. Its own FA, Its own league system etc.

You sound like a member of the Spanish government?

What about Gretna then?

Or Berwick Rangers.

[MOZ]

I did wonder why they didn't just say, have your silly little illegal referendum. Were they scared of the result? However they way they have gone about it, you have to wonder who is going to risk going out to vote to stay Spanish. Therefore it makes the independence vote more likely.

They were scared of the result. Yes, it is illegal - it is totally in breach of the 1978 constitution of which 90% of Catalans approved of.

But if the government had ignored it, they would have been seen by the Spanish people as allowing the constitution to be undermined which could have prompted other pro-independence groups in the Basque Country, Galicia etc. to follow suit.

And there would have been the small matter of a subsequent declaration of independence by the Catalans to deal with.

No doubt, Rajoy has made a complete mess of it but the more self-serving sections of the pro-independence groups have been almost longing for this to turn nasty as they feel it will help their cause. And they are certainly gaining a lot of sympathy from outside observers.

[Kenny's Jacket]

Or Berwick Rangers.

Ahh yeah, forgot about them.

Its best we wait on Tepid Water deciding weather England and Scotland are countries before using it as a legitimate example though.

[Elmo!]

Ahh yeah, forgot about them.

Its best we wait on Tepid Water deciding weather England and Scotland are countries before using it as a legitimate example though.

To be fair, they are not fair examples. While I would agree that Scotland and Wales are countries in their own right, they are not independent sovereign states. The New Zealand and Canadian examples are better.

[reniformis]

So you dont recognise Wales as a country. Its own FA, Its own league system etc.

Not when Swansea and Cardiff first joined the English league, no. Certainly not comparable to how it is now (that's the FA/league, I mean, not the country).

[Kenny's Jacket]

But if the government had ignored it, they would have been seen by the Spanish people as allowing the constitution to be undermined which could have prompted other pro-independence groups in the Basque Country, Galicia etc. to follow suit.

good point

[Kenny's Jacket]

To be fair, they are not fair examples. While I would agree that Scotland and Wales are countries in their own right, they are not independent sovereign states. The New Zealand and Canadian examples are better.

Good point, however on the same criteria neither are England independent sovereign state, you omitted them.  However all 3 countries have their own FA, League system etc.

Maybe Tepid could have phased it this way and sounded like less of a twat.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

337 people injured in referendum disorder

The Catalan government has said 337 people have been injured “by the Spanish state police violence.” They have accused Spanish police of responding with a ‘go get them’ attitude.

The Catalan foreign minister Raül Romeva has said: “We have initiated contacts with the EU about the violation of fundamental rights that puts the very same EU at risk.”

[BlackandWhitePaul]

Terrible scenes here   

https://twitter.com/twitter/statuses/914466967054159873

[Elmo!]

Good point, however on the same criteria neither are England independent sovereign state, you omitted them.  However all 3 countries have their own FA, League system etc.

Maybe Tepid could have phased it this way and sounded like less of a twat.

Of course England isn't an independent sovereign state, that is exactly my point, all these examples are all part of the same state.

For the record, I don't think Tepid sounded like a twat at all. And I think all this talk of football clubs and what leagues they will play in is the least of Spain/Catalonia's worries right now.