Author Topic: VVD, home of the avian anal prolapse .. (Legal: Only seduce consenting chickens)  (Read 680046 times)

Online stevensr123

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Re: VVD
« Reply #11160 on: August 13, 2017, 12:03:34 AM »
Our defence has zero leaders at the back that can organise a defence and our keeper has proven to have zero leadership as well at setting up a defence.

We have had worse defenders at the club but put them next to a Jamie and you can get something out of them.

And that and the fact our midfielders don't provide enough cover most of the time and it doesn't take a genius to see why we are Shite at defending.

VVD will be an improvement for sure, but we still need an improvement of left back, of the goal keeper, of the midfield.


We went from reina, Jamie/hyppia, mascherano as spine.

To mignolet, lovren and Henderson/can, we won't be getting anywhere if we don't have improvements.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2017, 12:05:32 AM by stevensr123 »
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Offline RJ320

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Re: VVD
« Reply #11161 on: August 13, 2017, 12:05:32 AM »
Surely Chelsea will be in for him now though after what just transpired today?

Seems mad that nobody has bought him already.
I'd expect them to make a bid now, knowing our luck.

And stop calling me Shirley.

Offline Flaccido Dongingo

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Re: VVD
« Reply #11162 on: August 13, 2017, 12:07:29 AM »
But I think we digress, this is the VVD thread.

But last season Forster and VVD inspired confidence in each other. Let's implant that into our team and we've got Matip instead of Toshiba next to VVD. If we had to sell Cou to get those two I'd do it in a heart beat.
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Re: VVD
« Reply #11163 on: August 13, 2017, 12:07:59 AM »
Our defence has zero leaders at the back that can organise a defence and our keeper has proven to have zero leadership as well at setting up a defence.

We have had worse defenders at the club but put them next to a Jamie and you can get something out of them.

And that and the fact our midfielders don't provide enough cover most of the time and it doesn't take a genius to see why we are Shite at defending.

VVD will be an improvement for sure, but we still need an improvement of left back, of the goal keeper, of the midfield.

We need a proper fucking spine mate.

A top keeper

A top CB and a real leader.

A top CM. Would be nice if he had leadership qualities as well.

And a proper 20 goal a season striker. Although this should be way down on our priority list, as we don't have a problem scoring goals at the moment.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2017, 12:35:39 AM by Lycan »
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Offline KillieRed

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Re: VVD
« Reply #11164 on: August 13, 2017, 12:12:06 AM »


Shocked at ppl calling out Matip for their 1st. Wasn't his man in that system. Glad they sorted it out later though.
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Re: VVD
« Reply #11165 on: August 13, 2017, 12:15:30 AM »

Shocked at ppl calling out Matip for their 1st. Wasn't his man in that system. Glad they sorted it out later though.
It was his zone. He got distracted by the run across him, and didn't leave the ground. Okaka headed the ball a yard behind where Matip started and was supposed to be. Zonal marking (or semi-zonal, as we seem to attempt) only works if the zonal players attack the ball if it's in their area. He didn't.
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Online stevensr123

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Re: VVD
« Reply #11166 on: August 13, 2017, 12:16:18 AM »
We need a proper fucking spine mate.

A top keeper

A top CB and a real leader.

A top CM. Would be nice if he had leadership qualities as well.

And a proper 20 goal a season striker. Although this should be way day on our priority list, as we don't have a problem scoring goals at the moment.
We need a proper fucking spine mate.

A top keeper

A top CB and a real leader.

A top CM. Would be nice if he had leadership qualities as well.

And a proper 20 goal a season striker. Although this should be way day on our priority list, as we don't have a problem scoring goals at the moment.
couldnt agree more and over the last 5 years our attack has tried its best to paper over the cracks but we won't win fuck all with this defence and midfield.

We tried the whole out score more than we concede thing and it resulted in nothing but our best players leaving and us winning fuck all.

I thought this summer we would be addressing it but we have just been pissing around.

Hopefully we get VVD done the next week but we can't just stop at him.

« Last Edit: August 13, 2017, 12:17:59 AM by stevensr123 »
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Offline KillieRed

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Re: VVD
« Reply #11167 on: August 13, 2017, 12:17:52 AM »
It was his zone. He got distracted by the run across him, and didn't leave the ground. Okaka headed the ball a yard behind where Matip started and was supposed to be. Zonal marking (or semi-zonal, as we seem to attempt) only works if the zonal players attack the ball if it's in their area. He didn't.

He followed the other big guy. Watch it.
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Re: VVD
« Reply #11168 on: August 13, 2017, 12:26:08 AM »
He followed the other big guy. Watch it.
I have watched it, several times. You don't appear to understand the concept of zonal marking*. He DID follow the other big guy. He wasn't supposed to.

*Though to be fair, neither do our defenders.
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Offline Klopp Your Hands

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Re: VVD
« Reply #11169 on: August 13, 2017, 12:44:14 AM »
Not according to BBC



I think the first graphic ranks by % of goals conceded, the BBC just the raw total
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Offline KillieRed

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Re: VVD
« Reply #11170 on: August 13, 2017, 12:48:04 AM »
I have watched it, several times. You don't appear to understand the concept of zonal marking*. He DID follow the other big guy. He wasn't supposed to.

*Though to be fair, neither do our defenders.

I do get it, our other guys didn't cover the zone he left ( btw  used to play American football: i get zone. man2man, man-zone etc.)

Matip got sucked in, no-one helped him out. Cant see who was behind him (Can?) who was static.

We switched to a version of man-zone later which was bizarre considering that Watford should have been fully scouted beforehand.
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Re: VVD
« Reply #11171 on: August 13, 2017, 12:57:01 AM »
I think the first graphic ranks by % of goals conceded, the BBC just the raw total

It does. Missed that

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Re: VVD
« Reply #11172 on: August 13, 2017, 12:57:58 AM »
I do get it, our other guys didn't cover the zone he left ( btw  used to play American football: i get zone. man2man, man-zone etc.)

Matip got sucked in, no-one helped him out. Cant see who was behind him (Can?) who was static.

We switched to a version of man-zone later which was bizarre considering that Watford should have been fully scouted beforehand.

The three main 'zonals' along the six yard line were Matip (roughly level with near post), Lovren (roughly level with far post) and Firmino (right in the middle between them). If I recall correctly, TAA? is also on the line, but out beyond the far post. Wijnaldum takes up a position in front of the near post. Henderson and Can stand out by the penalty spot/towards the edge of the box and (according to what Klopp said later) are supposed to disrupt/block the most dangerous (tallest) runners, but not necessarily follow them all the way in.

The runner that Can didn't block very well and let go, ran across the front of Matip. Matip reacted to him and took a step or two forwards, out of his zone, but still didn't jump - though getting sucked under the ball like that, jumping wouldn't have done much good from there anyway. Firmino stood completely still and didn't move towards the ball or jump. Neither did very well (Firmino didn't react), but I think Matip's error was the main one. If he'd held his original position - and actually jumped - he would have at least flicked it away from Okaka.

So Matip's error (as a zonal defender) was to react to a man running across him - who wasn't going to get the ball - while ignoring the ball in flight.

If and when zonal works, it's because those key zonal players don't leave large gaps between them, and wherever the ball is dropping, the closest player attacks it. There were examples later in the game, with the same zonal/disrupter/man mix, where the zonal players did do their jobs properly and clear it. And of course an example where Wijnaldum didn't protect the near post properly.


Though interestingly, Klopp seemed to lay most of the 'responsibility' of the first goal on Henderson, I think, for not disrupting Okaka's run. That's a bit worrying, if that's seriously how he saw it.

« Last Edit: August 13, 2017, 01:08:14 AM by redmark »
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Re: VVD
« Reply #11173 on: August 13, 2017, 01:03:40 AM »
As a general heuristic, it's better to rely more on predictions where the predictee has skin in the game.

..and I wouldn't characterise it as a guess; more a synthesis of available information and opinions (& strength of those opinions). Admittedly, for transfers, this is more speculative than many other markets.
Betting is more emotion than logic/knowledge by and large for transfers. Sky sources reports Liverpool interested in Ribery - Skybet odds end up and 1/20 on by lunchtime. Then when he doesn´t sign Skybet makes a fuck load of money.
Gonna stay behind at work and wait to see what happens.

I am betting some split arse and crying.

Offline BabuYagu

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Re: VVD
« Reply #11174 on: August 13, 2017, 01:08:07 AM »
It was his zone. He got distracted by the run across him, and didn't leave the ground. Okaka headed the ball a yard behind where Matip started and was supposed to be. Zonal marking (or semi-zonal, as we seem to attempt) only works if the zonal players attack the ball if it's in their area. He didn't.
This is 100% spot on. If you look where Matip is before the corner is taken, it´s pretty much the exact spot Okaka runs into. He got pulled out of his zone and got under the ball.
Gonna stay behind at work and wait to see what happens.

I am betting some split arse and crying.

Offline KillieRed

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Re: VVD
« Reply #11175 on: August 13, 2017, 01:08:48 AM »
The three main 'zonals' along the six yard line were Matip (roughly level with near post), Lovren (roughly level with far post) and Firmino (right in the middle between them). If I recall correctly, TAA? is also on the line, but out beyond the far post. Wijnaldum takes up a position in front of the near post. Henderson and Can stand out by the penalty spot/towards the edge of the box and (according to what Klopp said later) are supposed to disrupt/block the most dangerous (tallest) runners, but not necessarily follow them all the way in.

The runner that Can didn't block very well and let go, ran across the front of Matip. Matip reacted to him and took a step or two forwards, out of his zone, but still didn't jump - though getting sucked under the ball like that, jumping wouldn't have done much good from there anyway. Firmino stood completely still and didn't move towards the ball or jump. Neither did very well (Firmino didn't react), but I think Matip's error was the main one. If he'd held his original position - and actually jumped - he would have at least flicked it away from Okaka.

So Matip's error (as a zonal defender) was to react to a man running across him - who wasn't going to get the ball - while ignoring the ball in flight.

If and when zonal works, it's because those key zonal players don't leave large gaps between them, and wherever the ball is dropping, the closest player attacks it. There were examples later in the game, with the same zonal/disrupter/man mix, where the zonal players did do their jobs properly and clear it. And of course an example where Wijnaldum didn't protect the near post properly.

I get that, however when i first viewed it {live} I actually thought Matips man {was it Kaboul?} had scored, so i can fully see why he reacted, even if that guy also outjumped him.
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Re: VVD
« Reply #11176 on: August 13, 2017, 01:13:05 AM »
I get that, however when i first viewed it {live} I actually thought Matips man {was it Kaboul?} had scored, so i can fully see why he reacted, even if that guy also outjumped him.
You are still thinking about it in terms of whose man scored. Instead ask whose zone was it scored it. Matip. Therefore his goal.

He needs to attack the ball in his zone, not track a runner. If the runner wins the ball near post and flicks it on, it isn´t too much of a problem with our 3 best headers of the ball ready to defend it in their zones. However, if Matip moves out of his zone, it will leave a space somewhere in those 3 crucial central areas. If Firmino moves across, if leaves a space between him and Lovren. And so on. That near post runner only becomes a serious problem if you leave your zone.
Gonna stay behind at work and wait to see what happens.

I am betting some split arse and crying.

Offline Marty McFly

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Re: VVD
« Reply #11177 on: August 13, 2017, 03:11:08 AM »
Yep,offer £80m,they would bite our hands off,lets stop holding back and get on it.


This.

Online stevensr123

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Re: VVD
« Reply #11178 on: August 13, 2017, 04:06:26 AM »
This.
nah I think we need to monitor the situation some more and wait for them to say we can bid....joke of a situation really.
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Offline Flinstone

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Re: VVD
« Reply #11179 on: August 13, 2017, 04:14:13 AM »
He's fine.

Not brilliant but fine..  DeGea and Courtois are better, maybe Lloris... but after that I wouldn't take any one over Mignolet..

He's not a priority for me..

Really brah?
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Re: VVD
« Reply #11180 on: August 13, 2017, 08:07:08 AM »
He's fine.

Not brilliant but fine..  DeGea and Courtois are better, maybe Lloris... but after that I wouldn't take any one over Mignolet..

He's not a priority for me..

Even Jordan Pickford is better than Mignolet.

For me out of the 20 1st team keepers in the PL. Mignolet is about 10th. Liverpool Football stand no chance of winning the PL while he is our number 1 keeper. None.. zero!!

Offline Le Jake

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Re: VVD
« Reply #11181 on: August 13, 2017, 08:16:31 AM »
Even Jordan Pickford is better than Mignolet.

For me out of the 20 1st team keepers in the PL. Mignolet is about 10th. Liverpool Football stand no chance of winning the PL while he is our number 1 keeper. None.. zero!!

Shit I agree with Fordy on something. Someone call me an ambulance ;D
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Re: VVD
« Reply #11182 on: August 13, 2017, 08:19:39 AM »
Shit I agree with Fordy on something. Someone call me an ambulance ;D

You're an ambulance.
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Offline wellred82

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Re: VVD
« Reply #11183 on: August 13, 2017, 08:29:38 AM »
Think he's over rated to be honest and was injured for quite a bit last season. If Klopp thinks there is no one else who can improve us and is too proud to ask Sakho to come back then what does that say about him as a manager?

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Re: VVD
« Reply #11184 on: August 13, 2017, 08:46:35 AM »
You're an ambulance.

:D

There's no question about that we can upgrade on Mignolet. Unfortunately our young shot who we might have hoped would have done so early on in his LFC career failed to deliver. Not to say he won't one day soon enough, or Ward for that matter. But we can and should still try to upgrade on Mignolet. No question about it.

The same goes for our central defence. I still hope we'll get VVD in soon enough.

Offline athreyakb

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Re: VVD
« Reply #11185 on: August 13, 2017, 08:51:15 AM »
:D

There's no question about that we can upgrade on Mignolet. Unfortunately our young shot who we might have hoped would have done so early on in his LFC career failed to deliver. Not to say he won't one day soon enough, or Ward for that matter. But we can and should still try to upgrade on Mignolet. No question about it.

The same goes for our central defence. I still hope we'll get VVD in soon enough.

Ward actually seems pretty solid. He is definitely looking like an upgrade on Mignolet. All three keepers had a solid pre-season. Every chance Mignolet will be dropped against Hoffenheim.
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Re: VVD
« Reply #11186 on: August 13, 2017, 09:35:39 AM »
Betting is more emotion than logic/knowledge by and large for transfers. Sky sources reports Liverpool interested in Ribery - Skybet odds end up and 1/20 on by lunchtime. Then when he doesn´t sign Skybet makes a fuck load of money.

Fair point!

I accept that the transfers betting market is less reliable than other betting markets for gauging probability of outcomes. But I’d still argue as the only active attempt at quantifying probability of transfers it’s worth considering, albeit with it’s limitations in mind.

It may or may not include money from privileged information, but even if not, it’s a mechanism for synthesising the crowds’ view on information that’s in the public domain. It may have some short term volatility re speculative news etc, but that’s normal in any market type mechanism and normally resolves itself.

Also, of course, betting markets are not pure markets; odds are set by the bookmakers, influenced by where the cash is going, whilst maintaining their margins and motivating action. But, of course, they’re motivated for the odds to largely reflect the betting, or their profits are in jeopardy. And it’s the big money that’s most influential, which tends to be the expert, vs the emotive LFC fan who sticks £10 on VVD to stay at Saints to hedge his or her emotions :) Although I'm not sure how much volume they have on these markets.

Incidentally, there’s some evidence with prediction markets that markets which include both novices (generally less rational) and experts are more accurate than those that just include experts. I’m not sure we understand why that is, some theorise it could flatten the over confidence bias that experts can exhibit.

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Re: VVD
« Reply #11187 on: August 13, 2017, 09:43:35 AM »
On that theme...current probability of where Virgil Van Dijk will be at the end of the transfer window:

Liverpool 75%
Southampton 25%
Chelsea 16.6%
Arsenal/Man city 5.8%

(they sum up to more than 100% as bookies tend to like making a profit  :o)

From Sky bet as of 9:30am this morning. Other bookies have the likelihood of him going to Liverpool a little lower at about 65%.

Offline Anfield Kopite

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Re: VVD
« Reply #11188 on: August 13, 2017, 09:58:30 AM »
On that theme...current probability of where Virgil Van Dijk will be at the end of the transfer window:

Liverpool 75%
Southampton 25%
Chelsea 16.6%
Arsenal/Man city 5.8%

(they sum up to more than 100% as bookies tend to like making a profit  :o)

From Sky bet as of 9:30am this morning. Other bookies have the likelihood of him going to Liverpool a little lower at about 65%.
Sky bet have made a lot of money over the years with people betting on certain clubs buying certain players. I mean that adds up to over 120% and there are only 5 teams on the list. What if a team from europe suddenly offer £70m and Saints accept ? A fool and his money is easily parted.

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Re: VVD
« Reply #11189 on: August 13, 2017, 10:29:16 AM »
Sky bet have made a lot of money over the years with people betting on certain clubs buying certain players. I mean that adds up to over 120% and there are only 5 teams on the list. What if a team from europe suddenly offer £70m and Saints accept ? A fool and his money is easily parted.

I can believe that. I'm pretty surprised there seems to be no regulatory issues with Sky Bet and it's explicit or implicit relationship with the broader Sky entity. It seems a pretty obvious conflict of interest.

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Re: VVD
« Reply #11190 on: August 13, 2017, 11:04:18 AM »
I can believe that. I'm pretty surprised there seems to be no regulatory issues with Sky Bet and it's explicit or implicit relationship with the broader Sky entity. It seems a pretty obvious conflict of interest.

Skybet is owned by some other corporation, not Murdoch.
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Re: VVD
« Reply #11191 on: August 13, 2017, 11:28:02 AM »
Think he's over rated to be honest and was injured for quite a bit last season. If Klopp thinks there is no one else who can improve us and is too proud to ask Sakho to come back then what does that say about him as a manager?

Because Sakho is no better than we have?

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Re: VVD
« Reply #11192 on: August 13, 2017, 11:32:41 AM »
Because Sakho is no better than we have?
Indeed. He needs to be sold.

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Re: VVD
« Reply #11193 on: August 13, 2017, 11:34:03 AM »
Because Sakho is no better than we have?

he's better than Klavan or Gomez our 3rd and 4th choice.
he won't be playing for us again but lets at least be factual about our squad

Offline The G in Gerrard

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Re: VVD
« Reply #11194 on: August 13, 2017, 11:40:23 AM »
he's better than Klavan or Gomez our 3rd and 4th choice.
he won't be playing for us again but lets at least be factual about our squad
Would rather see Gomez given a chance.

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Re: VVD
« Reply #11195 on: August 13, 2017, 11:56:10 AM »
Surely Chelsea will be in for him now though after what just transpired today?

Seems mad that nobody has bought him already.
They conceded 3 goals, because Cahill got sent off after 15m. Or
have I missed something?

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Re: VVD
« Reply #11196 on: August 13, 2017, 11:58:42 AM »
Skybet is owned by some other corporation, not Murdoch.

20% owned by Sky.

Offline Red_Rich

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Re: VVD
« Reply #11197 on: August 13, 2017, 12:09:38 PM »
Our best out and out defender is currently frozen out of the club.  What a mess.

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Re: VVD
« Reply #11198 on: August 13, 2017, 12:11:46 PM »
Our best out and out defender is currently frozen out of the club.  What a mess.
Aye.. we were rock solid when he was in the team, clearly Lovren was holding him back.
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Online Groundskeeper Willie

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Re: VVD
« Reply #11199 on: August 13, 2017, 12:15:07 PM »
he's better than Klavan or Gomez our 3rd and 4th choice.
he won't be playing for us again but lets at least be factual about our squad

Better than Lovren too.