Topic: Anthony H Wilson

[vivabobbygraham]

Here's a treat for you, published on the Beeb's website yesterday on what would have been Anthony H Wilson's 65th birthday, this article acts as a precursor to a book being written by sometimes excellent, sometimes pretentious but always entertaining and revealing Paul 'Mr ZTT' Morley..........the article includes an excerpt from an interview featuring a radio 1 DJ, Tony, and Steve Morris discussing why Joy Division songs won't get played on the radio. Enjoy........
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/3td8XtyRPJ9fFYtFvCYhx21/tony-wilson-the-mancunian-maverick

Ive said before they should raise a statue in the centre Manchester for what he done for them....more than just music,.....Wilson had a Love/Hate relationship with Liverpool....he wanted Manchester to have the vibe Liverpool had in the late Seventies and Early eighties and sadly for us, he achieved it...and from what followed music,cultural and economic success...I have a love hate relationship with Wilson..the thing I hate most about him was he wasn't a Scouser!

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/3cYNI8s_vo4&amp;spfreload=10" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/3cYNI8s_vo4&amp;spfreload=10</a>

Not sure where to post this so jumped on these posts regarding Tony Wilson using the search button after watching the video for this cracking tune, albeit, Manc, in memory of the fellah. I, too, had a love/hate relationship with the guy but his influence on the Manchester music scene can never be doubted; watch the video for confirmation.

To those who do, there is a line later on that say's ''but when it comes to footy, Tone, don't talk to me about the scousers". WTF does that mean? Was he a closet redman?

I recommend you watch the vid as the tune is spot on and may evoke memories of other Manchester bands! Plenty of faces on it and they obviously loved the guy

[Timbo's Goals]

Not sure where to post this so jumped on these posts regarding Tony Wilson using the search button after watching the video for this cracking tune, albeit, Manc, in memory of the fellah. I, too, had a love/hate relationship with the guy but his influence on the Manchester music scene can never be doubted; watch the video for confirmation.

To those who do, there is a line later on that say's ''but when it comes to footy, Tone, don't talk to me about the scousers". WTF does that mean? Was he a closet redman?

I recommend you watch the vid as the tune is spot on and may evoke memories of other Manchester bands! Plenty of faces on it and they obviously loved the guy

He was Man United daft P.

And fucking despised Liverpool whatever anyone else may say to the contrary

Got to say I'm biased as fuck when it comes to the c*nt.

I don't see anything beyond his abuse of his position within the North West media - notice too in this regard in the video Paul Morley, Richard Madeley, Mark Ratcliffe, Miranda sawyer all pissing in and drinking from the same Manc contaminated pot - to promote unscrupulously the shite of milltown onto a trusting North West audience, a compulsion borne of an uncontrollable jealousy the twat had for the organic worldwide fame of the place that despite the unevenness of the odds partly engineered by the c*nt himself still vastly overshadows his own shithole worldwide.

 

[vivabobbygraham]

He was Man United daft P.

And fucking despised Liverpool whatever anyone else may say to the contrary

Got to say I'm biased as fuck when it comes to the fella.

I don't see anything beyond his abuse of his position to hijack the power afforded to him within the North West media - notice too in this regard in the video Paul Morley, Richard Madeley, Mark Ratcliffe, Miranda sawyer all pissing in and drinking from the same Manc contaminated pot - to promote unscrupulously the shite of milltown onto a trusting North West audience, a compulsion borne of an uncontrollable jealousy the twat had for the organic worldwide fame of the place that despite the unevenness of the odds partly engineered by the c*nt himself still vastly overshadows his own shithole worldwide.

 

All fair comment, A, I get some of that. I've been working in Manchester these last 4 years and the two lads who wrote and produced the tune, which I really like, are known to me.

However, Wilson, who I met a couple of times at The Hacienda, which I frequented regularly, along with many other scouse heads back in the day, was always generous and amenable in many ways! Yes, he was insanely jealous of our City's culture and heritage and had a Ferguson mentality toward topping it as any proud mac would but, as opposed to Sawyer, who despises all things scouse, he did so without malice, as far as I am aware with my, albeit, limited dealings with him. He'd been had over by scousers on many occasion there and took it all with good grace.

I have nothing but good memories of The Hacienda and 'Madchester', having been in the club business myself, it spawned Cream and the like in our fair City and the music, partying over there from what I remember, was always hard and hearty. Everyone was loved up and for a spell, certainly in the club scene, scousers and mancs sang from the same sheet; Blackburn being a case in point for all the ravers out there 

Wilson was a blagger, a braggart and a bad businessman, but he loved his City, although I believe he was originally from Salford, if that makes any difference, as we do ours.

I'm with flashing blade on this, which is why I used his quote in my intro to the thread. I had a love/hate relationship with him and the thing I hated most about him was that he wasn't a scouser. Ah, well. Thanks for responding. You're the only one. Maybe your always heartfelt and to the point riposte will generate some debate on the subject.

 

[moondog]

Gotta love Anthony H W for his great legacy even if he had his flaws. I loved the Hac too and had so many great nights up on that stage , it only went wrong when United started winning the league. Met him a few times through music and he loved loads of scouse band but he wanted a mancunian dynasty not to be overrun by us lot. Who could not love the Mondays or New Order at their peaks?

[Haemoglobin]

I like the fact that there are two northwestern cultural powerhouses constantly jabbing playfully/viciously at each other, and he was a massively influential part of that - as a Mancunian, he wasn't gona let Manchester be knocked or overshadowed by anyone. I respect that, like I deeply respect Manchester's contributions to culture (and love some of it, always will). Although I'm Liverpool-born and thankful for it, I also have plenty of Lancastrian in me and have spent a fair bit of my life stuck directly between the two cities, so as much as Liverpool is my city, I feel like I don't need to neg on Manchester like many mancs clearly feel a need to do to us.

Just for introducing Joy Division to the world on it's own, he's in my good books. I always liked that manc quote about him; "he's a cunt, but he's our cunt". He's their cunt, but he's the right sort of cunt, and did good things for the northwest in general.
 

[markedasred]

I worked in Manchester in the early 90's, and used to date a woman actor, who got a part in an ITV series, so packed in working at the Hacienda on Friday & Saturday nights. Every night that I can remember, there were long queues to get in there (I worked in an arts centre around the corner from it). I should also add that when I was younger I worked in clubs doing light shows for bands and dj's, and would occasionally be the promoter also. Several documentary clips I have seen show members of Joy Division/New Order repeating Wilsons claim that he could not give them more money because the Hacienda, which they were partners in as some part of their deal with him, was losing so much money. The girlfriend told me it was mobbed all the time in there. People came from all over the world to visit it, someone offered her Ł400 for her staff t-shirt. I have no doubt in my mind that the place was raking it in, and Wilson creamed it off, cheating the band out of an income to keep the money. Also Blue Monday (the biggest selling 12" single of all time), he told them they lost 5p on every record sold because of the die cut sleeve. That is also just a lie, I have commissioned complex cut brochures and the unit cost plummets as the quantity rises. I doubt those sleeves cost anywhere near 30p each, more like half that in cost, for a record selling at Ł1.99 per unit? He had them off massively, and got away with it, and is now worshipped as one of Manchester's favourite sons.
Incidentally, I should add, I met him on several occasions through work, and he was very charming and affable. But I do have a good bullshit detector.

[Timbo's Goals]

Gotta love Anthony H W for his great legacy even if he had his flaws. I loved the Hac too and had so many great nights up on that stage , it only went wrong when United started winning the league. Met him a few times through music and he loved loads of scouse band but he wanted a mancunian dynasty not to be overrun by us lot. Who could not love the Mondays or New Order at their peaks?

Both the highlighted bits are fucking jokes, right?

I fucking hate Wilson and as for the other two overhyped nonentities.....

[Timbo's Goals]

I worked in Manchester in the early 90's, and used to date a woman actor, who got a part in an ITV series, so packed in working at the Hacienda on Friday & Saturday nights. Every night that I can remember, there were long queues to get in there (I worked in an arts centre around the corner from it). I should also add that when I was younger I worked in clubs doing light shows for bands and dj's, and would occasionally be the promoter also. Several documentary clips I have seen show members of Joy Division/New Order repeating Wilsons claim that he could not give them more money because the Hacienda, which they were partners in as some part of their deal with him, was losing so much money. The girlfriend told me it was mobbed all the time in there. People came from all over the world to visit it, someone offered her Ł400 for her staff t-shirt. I have no doubt in my mind that the place was raking it in, and Wilson creamed it off, cheating the band out of an income to keep the money. Also Blue Monday, he told them they lost 30p on every record sold because of the die cut sleeve. That is also just a lie, I have commissioned complex cut brochures and the unit cost plummets as the quantity rises. I doubt those sleeves cost anywhere near the 30p he claimed they were losing, more like half that in cost, for a record selling at Ł1.99 per unit? He had them off massively, and got away with it, and is now worshipped as one of Manchester's favourite sons.
Incidentally, I should add, I met him on several occasions through work, and he was very charming and affable. But I do have a good bullshit detector.

You clearly despise him for different reasons than me - and it surprises me not one fucking jot that you appear to cite evidence that the man was a fucking lying fraud.

My own reasons are solely to do with him abusing the position bestowed upon him at Granada wherein he was meant to represent the entire Granada region yet used it solely to sate his obsessive compulsion to create a Mancunian musical legacy to equate with the one he was forced to endure as a green-eyed milltown Manc teenager as The Beatles conquered the world, speading the name of Liverpool and Liverpudlians as it did so.

Thankfully he failed in his quest except amongst the impressionable UK generation that followed my own who were exposed to his Madchester musical propaganda brainwashing.

[Timbo's Goals]

All fair comment, A, I get some of that. I've been working in Manchester these last 4 years and the two lads who wrote and produced the tune, which I really like, are known to me.

However, Wilson, who I met a couple of times at The Hacienda, which I frequented regularly, along with many other scouse heads back in the day, was always generous and amenable in many ways! Yes, he was insanely jealous of our City's culture and heritage and had a Ferguson mentality toward topping it as any proud mac would but, as opposed to Sawyer, who despises all things scouse, he did so without malice, as far as I am aware with my, albeit, limited dealings with him. He'd been had over by scousers on many occasion there and took it all with good grace.

I have nothing but good memories of The Hacienda and 'Madchester', having been in the club business myself, it spawned Cream and the like in our fair City and the music, partying over there from what I remember, was always hard and hearty. Everyone was loved up and for a spell, certainly in the club scene, scousers and mancs sang from the same sheet; Blackburn being a case in point for all the ravers out there 

Wilson was a blagger, a braggart and a bad businessman, but he loved his City, although I believe he was originally from Salford, if that makes any difference, as we do ours.

I'm with flashing blade on this, which is why I used his quote in my intro to the thread. I had a love/hate relationship with him and the thing I hated most about him was that he wasn't a scouser. Ah, well. Thanks for responding. You're the only one. Maybe your always heartfelt and to the point riposte will generate some debate on the subject.

 

P - you're a decent few years behind me and I know no Scouser of your age who wasn't beguiled like your goodself by the fella and the obscenely acquired Manc hype machine he engineered himself into the position to deploy in order to sate his sole obsession of matching The Beatles and '60's Merseybeat legacy with one of his own. It's only those like myself who lived through both the earlier ORGANIC scouse phenomenon and then had to endure the second MANUFACTURED farce that can have the full and proper perspective on this.

[Kenny's Jacket]

I'm with Timbo on this. Maybe this thread belongs on Redcafe. 

[vivabobbygraham]

You clearly despise him for different reasons than me - and it surprises me not one fucking jot that you appear to cite evidence that the man was a fucking lying fraud.

My own reasons are solely to do with him abusing the position bestowed upon him at Granada wherein he was meant to represent the entire Granada region yet used it solely to sate his obsessive compulsion to create a Mancunian musical legacy to equate with the one he was forced to endure as a green-eyed milltown Manc teenager as The Beatles conquered the world, speading the name of Liverpool and Liverpudlians as it did so.

Thankfully he failed in his quest except amongst the impressionable UK generation that followed my own who were exposed to his Madchester musical propaganda brainwashing.

I think the brainwashing was more to do with 'doves' than Wilson, pal 

Not gonna get into the stuff abah him ripping bands off. It's been alleged before with little evidence. I do know he was had over many times, some scouse heads can testify to that, as he was a soft touch and a sucker for a sob story.

Course he used Granada to promote Manchester and himself (wearing the Bruges colours the day of our 2nd triumph,) no problem with that. We were then, and still are, fucking miles ahead of them nationally and globally, no contest. I've always enjoyed their inferiority complex towards us and have never hesitated in exposing them to it.

As for the fella with 'the bullshit detector' you didn't need one, he had it written on his forehead!

The Hacienda was probably my favourite clubbing experience, though Cream and a few nights in Ibiza run it close so  as an old raver, I will always be grateful to him for that at least. As I said, I don't believe he was deliberately malicious, just a blagger and not a very good one at that. I think the tune is boss, though and a suitable homage to him surrounded by his Manc compadres

[vivabobbygraham]

I'm with Timbo on this. Maybe this thread belongs on Redcafe.

Why?

[Kenny's Jacket]

Why?

Cos he's a manc who hated the city and the  Football club of Liverpool. 
Why are we starting to start a wankfest on him here. Leaave that to the mancs and celebrate a Scouser, or at least someone who didn't hate scousers.

 

[Timbo's Goals]

I'm with Timbo on this. Maybe this thread belongs on Redcafe. 

I know what you mean KJ but we do have to face facts.

VBobbyG is as fiercely scouse and anti-manc as it comes and he'd be mortified to think any fellow scousers felt there was even a hint of disloyalty here.

I know - and I'm sure you do too - that his take is mirrored by so many scousers - and others too of course - of his generation. It's understandable they perceive it that there was no brainwashing involved. After all they were all normal music loving scousers like we've all been at one time or another. They don't wish to believe they've been 'had'. But by the same token they also have to admit if they look at it cold and hard that at a time when they were all at their most impressionable musically there was a hitherto unprecedented teenage targetted hype machine pioneered by Wilson in his privileged Granada role that on a drip feed basis was nigh irresistible to music loving teens who were exposed to its subtle brainwashing. In essence he 'groomed' an entire generation of teenagers with a manufactured hype machine that has never been equalled.

I mean how else can you have a post from an ordinary well meaning poster asking "how can you not love The Mondays?"

 

[vivabobbygraham]

Cos he's a manc who hated the city and the  Football club of Liverpool. 
Why are we starting to start a wankfest on him here. Leaave that to the mancs and celebrate a Scouser, or at least someone who didn't hate scousers.

 

It's the media and arts page, not the main board. Look down the first two pages, it's got threads on The Smiths, Alan Partridge and The Stone Roses. Shall we fuck them off?

Where's the wankfest? You read and agreed with Timbo's post. You're free to rip into him as you've just done. It's because we're scouse and not mancs that we can have a convo about a guy who many of us did not like and have bought into the narrative portrayed about him. Some of us take a different view.

Have a pop at him by all means but fuck off with the cheap shots

[Timbo's Goals]

It's the media and arts page, not the main board. Look down the first two pages, it's got threads on The Smiths, Alan Partridge and The Stone Roses. Shall we fuck them off?

Where's the wankfest? You read and agreed with Timbo's post. You're free to rip into him as you've just done. It's because we're scouse and not mancs that we can have a convo about a guy who many of us did not like and have bought into the narrative portrayed about him. Some of us take a different view.

Have a pop at him by all means but fuck off with the cheap shots

By the same token P - for the likes of myself and KJ to see him even marginally praised on these boards is very very hard to stomach.

It is like having an enemy in the camp.

As I said the only folks who can have a proper perspective on it are those scousers who lived through - and took an avid interest in - both eras. And with respect the likes of those who 'fell' for his massive drip feed hype machine over many years simply cannot have that broader perspective because they are not old enough to have done so.

I observed it day in day out for many years but knew there was fuck all anyone could do about it. I saw it from day one - and i'm sure you can tell from my posts - the sheer injustice and distorted representation of it all did used to get me down. You live with it but you cannot help but feel wrtched about that distortion and misrepresentation especially when there are so many fellow scousers such as yourself who bought into the thing.

[vivabobbygraham]

P - you're a decent few years behind me and I know no Scouser of your age who wasn't beguiled like your goodself by the fella and the obscenely acquired Manc hype machine he engineered himself into the position to deploy in order to sate his sole obsession of matching The Beatles and '60's Merseybeat legacy with one of his own. It's only those like myself who lived through both the earlier ORGANIC scouse phenomenon and then had to endure the second MANUFACTURED farce that can have the full and proper perspective on this.

I'm 59!

Have never tried to compare the two, in fact i have and said there is no contest. Suppose it's difficult to separate the two but he exploited a situation as it was presented to him. Whether you can put it down to brainwashing, I'm not so sure. Drugs played a huge part, after all it was the era of ecstasy and Thatcher, so escapism was everywhere and the right to party was, for a little while, a phenomenon, where the youth congregated in great numbers in spite of her police force. It terrified her and her mob that young people might become political, and the conspiracy theorists will tell you was the reason the streets became flooded with cheap heroin....I digress

He was just a manc who loved music, loved his City and it's people. Yes, he exploited the privilege afforded him through the media he worked in. Ah, well, would we have done the same for our own? Those fuckers at Salford Quays are doing it now, every fucking day under the badge of privilege that is the BBC, don't get me started on those c*nts....

 

[Haemoglobin]

It's the media and arts page, not the main board. Look down the first two pages, it's got threads on The Smiths, Alan Partridge and The Stone Roses. Shall we fuck them off?

Where's the wankfest? You read and agreed with Timbo's post. You're free to rip into him as you've just done. It's because we're scouse and not mancs that we can have a convo about a guy who many of us did not like and have bought into the narrative portrayed about him. Some of us take a different view.

Have a pop at him by all means but fuck off with the cheap shots

Exactly.

(Well not just through being scousers, but by just being a more reasonable sort of person than rabid anti-Liverpool mancs and them - I don't think John Lennon, or any number of famed Liverpudlians, had such a vitriolic tribal outlook; huge scouse talents tend to be more chilled and open-minded in general. But then, even Lennon was a bit of a c*nt in his way)


Joy Division, The Smiths and Steve Coogan, of those that've been mentioned so far, are all entirely deserving of their acclaim. The Happy Mondays and the Stone Roses do have a wildly overexaggerated reputation, they were nowhere near as good or important to British culture as they're made out to be, but they still have their moments, especially early Roses. New Order was an important group in many ways, but I'm not mad on them myself.

[Timbo's Goals]

Joy Division, The Smiths and Steve Coogan, of those that've been mentioned so far, are all entirely deserving of a fair degree of their acclaim. The Happy Mondays and the Stone Roses do have an incredibly wildly overexaggerated reputation, they were nowhere near as good or important to British culture as they're made out to be, but they still have their half decent moments in the same way Tiny Fucking Tim had his , especially early Roses. New Order was an a marginally important group in many ways to those who enjoy that type of thing , but I'm not mad on them myself [very sensible]  .

Probably the most balanced paragraph in the thread [said through gritted scouse teeth!!!]

 

[Kenny's Jacket]

It's the media and arts page, not the main board. Look down the first two pages, it's got threads on The Smiths, Alan Partridge and The Stone Roses. Shall we fuck them off?

Where's the wankfest? You read and agreed with Timbo's post. You're free to rip into him as you've just done. It's because we're scouse and not mancs that we can have a convo about a guy who many of us did not like and have bought into the narrative portrayed about him. Some of us take a different view.

Have a pop at him by all means but fuck off with the cheap shots

Maybe Im wrong but I dont remember Morrissey, Marr, Sumner or Squire being particularly anti Liverpool or using their fame to have a pop at Liverpool and its people. 

I also think the timing is quite wrong based on what happened over the last few weeks.

But upto you.

[Timbo's Goals]

I'm 59!

That's what I mean P - in broad terms you're basically still an impressionable young teenager to dinosaurs like myself!

 

[cloggypop]

http://factoryrecords.org/factory-records/fac-15-leigh-festivalzoo-meets-factory.php

[cloggypop]

http://www.cerysmaticfactory.info/fac15.html

[vivabobbygraham]

Maybe Im wrong but I dont remember Morrissey, Marr, Sumner or Squire being particularly anti Liverpool or using their fame to have a pop at Liverpool and its people. 

I also think the timing is quite wrong based on what happened over the last few weeks.

But upto you.

Another cheap shot. If I thought for a second, that this thread would act as a catalyst for that type of vitriol, I'd close it immediately, or it would be closed for me. Let's play grown ups for a bit, see where it takes us, eh?

[Haemoglobin]

Probably the most balanced paragraph in the thread [said through gritted scouse teeth!!!]

 

That's very fair edit, Timbo, so I'll take the compliment 


Thing is, when your Top Trump is The fucking Beatles, what else can other places do but grandly talk up their own and try to downplay the rest of our stuff? It's basically cheating on our part. And it's not like we ever keep quiet about it, is it? 

[vivabobbygraham]

That's what I mean P - in broad terms you're basically still an impressionable young teenager to dinosaurs like myself!

 

 

[vivabobbygraham]

http://www.cerysmaticfactory.info/fac15.html

Good stuff, cloggy, don't remember that but can't remember me own name some days.......

[Timbo's Goals]

Good stuff, cloggy, don't remember that but can't remember me own name some days.......

Ha ha

 

[Timbo's Goals]

Good stuff, cloggy, don't remember that but can't remember me own name some days.......

Gotta be honest here tho P

I know it's just me but I'd rather have me eyes pierced Jake la Motta style than catch a bus along the East Lancs  to fucking Leigh to watch that fucking lot!

 

[vivabobbygraham]

Gotta be honest here tho P

I know it's just me but I'd rather have me eyes pierced Jake la Motta style than catch a bus along the East Lancs  to fucking Leigh to watch that fucking lot!

 

Amen to that, buddy 

[MichaelA]

I also think the timing is quite wrong based on what happened over the last few weeks.

RAWK equivalent of Godwin's Law. Poor show, KJ.

Wilson, a reprehensible genius, I love the fact that everything he did gives me the opportunity to despise the amazing fucker. Liverpool gave him something to tilt at, he never stopped knocking us, he tried and almost succeeded in knocking the city over. But he never did. Because at the end of the day he was just a Manc.

[CHOPPER]

The 'H' stood for Harsehole

[KiNki]

who?

[MichaelA]

Oh, you two.

[oldfordie]

Never really bothered me but not a fan, now Bob Greaves was far worse,done my head. little ad lib snidy remarks that gave away his true thoughts and opinions.
I can understand why Wilson is held in so much high regard in Manchester and the North West for a particular age group so no problem,always reminded me of this fella when he spoke about music though so never impressed with him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdWJpHt1Xws

[Sammy5IsAlive]

I mean how else can you have a post from an ordinary well meaning poster asking "how can you not love The Mondays?"

 

FWIW, I've always thought that they were really good before the drugs got out of hand (albeit that makes a pretty short window!). Guess it comes down to what you like though - can see how they are a bit of a marmite band.

[moondog]

Yes I am an ordinary well meaning poster and I have been there seen it all and made the t-shirt in terms of music since I saw the clash in January 1980 age 12 and a half. I have seen every great band that came along in those 35 years and say what you like but happy Mondays in 88 were fucking awesome, and I was managing Mick Head and Shack at the time, so I know what is shit and what is shinola.

[Timbo's Goals]

Yes I am an ordinary well meaning poster and I have been there seen it all and made the t-shirt in terms of music since I saw the clash in January 1980 age 12 and a half. I have seen every great band that came along in those 35 years and say what you like but happy Mondays in 88 were fucking awesome, and I was managing Mick Head and Shack at the time, so I know what is shit and what is shinola.

Respect mate - and never let it be said I took issue with the manager of Mick Head and Shack as I own and love most everything they've ever done including Mick and John's Pale Fountain and most especially Strands work.

However, on the issue of the Happy Mondays I'm sorry mate but on the pain of fucking death you'll never get me to bequeath the merest accolade on them [or the Wilson fella]. Now John Kongos - well that's another matter...

[moondog]

Get a Gary ablett down and Rave On to WFL. 

[The Gulleysucker]

....Now John Kongos - well that's another matter...

Timbo, unfortunately many people think The Black Eyed Peas wrote Mas Que Nada ...

While I never knew or ever met Wilson, I was told by a very close and highly respected friend heavily involved in the recording studios and some of the sessions from the time, that in his opinion, Mr Wilson's main skill and contribution to it all seemed to be primarily in scoring supplies of cocaine and other drugs for assorted band members. My friend had little time for the man, and that's good enough for me.