Topic: The VR/AR Revolution

[Macphisto80]

It's £499 with £30 postage, so £529

i remember when a 40" 1080p cost over five grand

Is it not getting an official EU release, then? Imports always cost a shitload more.

[Skeeve]

A price of $600 almost never equates to £400 on sale, american prices don't include vat in the headline price.

[[new username under construction]]

I'm assuming that VIVE will be similar. Hefty money so might be a tough call which to go for. The Vive looks amazing and I don't really love the Facebook tie-in with Rift.....Sooner or later adverts are going to come into effect, you just know it

[Macphisto80]

So now we know the price points of these things and what they are aiming for.

It seems more and more companies are wanting to get in on it, and it was only a matter of time before this happened:

http://gameranx.com/updates/id/44429/article/amd-jumps-into-vr-game-with-spatially-aware-solon-vr/



It's called the Sulon Q and it's AMD foray into the VR market, and apparently it only does, well, everything the rest of them do in one package and then some. No wires. No external hardware required either. VR hasn't even taken off properly yet, and already we're seeing huge developments in it.

[iSmiff]

i'm not bothered who wins as long as they can make all the game work on all the platforms
i believe they'd already done this with all the oculus only games, they've got them working on the Vive

[Lfsea]

It's called the Sulon Q

Sounds like a place I went in Thailand for a 'massage'.

[Haemoglobin]

So now we know the price points of these things and what they are aiming for.

It seems more and more companies are wanting to get in on it, and it was only a matter of time before this happened:

http://gameranx.com/updates/id/44429/article/amd-jumps-into-vr-game-with-spatially-aware-solon-vr/



It's called the Sulon Q and it's AMD foray into the VR market, and apparently it only does, well, everything the rest of them do in one package and then some. No wires. No external hardware required either. VR hasn't even taken off properly yet, and already we're seeing huge developments in it.

Very interesting. I was fully expecting AMD and Nvidia to get involved at some point, but was thinking more along the lines of them offering their own headset + graphics card package (which would probably still be a winner at the right price - it's only the GPU really which holds my own current computer build back from full-on VR capability). A headset that does the lot really well on it's own is a very tempting prospect indeed if the thing isn't stupid expensive, especially if it could harness some extra gfx processing power from the card that's already inside your system, just to boost its general performance output. I've a Nvidia inside mine though, so if that were the case I'd really hope they wouldn't play silly beggars with brand compatibility.


By the way, in case anyone didn't already know, Playstation VR (formerly Project Morpheus) is now available for pre-order in most places at £349.99 RRP, due for release in October. I think it needs to come bundled with a confirmed knockout console-exclusive VR title to properly get those orders rolling in; I'm holding off till I hear more on that front. But I personally wouldn't baulk at like £380 for a boss little VR bundle.

[iSmiff]

i wonder can you hear the game over the ATI card running like a hoover


and then in burns your head because it's sitting at 90 degrees

[Haemoglobin]

^ Actually a fair point. I have no idea how that's all gona work out; it's got to get pretty damn hot in such a compact form, surely.

[Macphisto80]

i wonder can you hear the game over the ATI card running like a hoover


and then in burns your head because it's sitting at 90 degrees

I'd imagine that the GPU would be very similar to that used in mobile phones anyway. By the time this comes out, mobile phone GPU's will already be capable of producing some very surprising results as far as what kind of visuals they can actually pump out. When you think of what a modern mobile phone actually is, a 4k capable screen, power supply, multi core cpu, several gigs of RAM and a GPU to rival some of the older consoles, all in the palm of your hand. That's pretty amazing. A lot of gamers baulked at the idea of mobile technology taking over from their brick consoles and building sized PC monsters, but it's not such a stretch to imagine it will these days. Maybe not now, but it could be the way of the future as far as gaming goes.


Have a look at this. These are actually mobile phone visuals. You'd be forgiven for thinking this was being run on a high end PC.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/lIdNoSB69PI" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/lIdNoSB69PI</a>

[Macphisto80]

^ Actually a fair point. I have no idea how that's all gona work out; it's got to get pretty damn hot in such a compact form, surely.

Not really. As I said in my previous post, a mid to high range GPU of several years ago can now be applied to a board with just passive cooling. There could also be a small mounted fan in there to keep things cool, and you wouldn't even hear it.

[Haemoglobin]

That's mightily impressive, if it does in fact manage to do that. It'd never occurred to me before how the apparently very demanding graphics processing shiz of VR would translate to heat against your head. But I've never tried on a VR headset. I imagine they'll come with lots of health & safety guidelines warning against long sessions wearing one regardless, which everyone will ignore.

[iSmiff]

Not really. As I said in my previous post, a mid to high range GPU of several years ago can now be applied to a board with just passive cooling. There could also be a small mounted fan in there to keep things cool, and you wouldn't even hear it.

and they're going to push high res at 90hz

with AI, motion tracking and all that other jazz running at the same time

is this headset coming out in a few years time? then maybe

[Macphisto80]

and they're going to push high res at 90hz

with AI, motion tracking and all that other jazz running at the same time

is this headset coming out in a few years time? then maybe

No, none of that...yet. But it's just an example of just how close we are to having something that we could pull out of a pocket, slap on your head and start having an acceptable experience with. Sooner or later, real time visuals are going to hit a ceiling. It's inevitable that gaming will have to break out of traditional shackles that we've come to know, ie consoles and PC's. That's a long way off yet, but it's going to happen.

[blert596]

Has anyone tried the Samsung gear VR headset that you slap your phone onto. My lad had a go on one last week and is pestering me for one because he thought it was great.

Mind you I'd be able to give him my S5 to use and get a nice shiny new S7 if I indulge him.

[Schmidt]

Has anyone tried the Samsung gear VR headset that you slap your phone onto. My lad had a go on one last week and is pestering me for one because he thought it was great.

Mind you I'd be able to give him my S5 to use and get a nice shiny new S7 if I indulge him.

Yeah, I only tried it for half an hour or so but it's pretty cool, it could be a bit of a dark horse in this whole VR race as there are no wires to deal with and everyone has a phone these days. I imagine it'll be better for movies more than anything else though as games will have to hit a high refresh rate and utilise a pretty limited set of controls, so they'll mostly be quite basic. Then again, mobile games are a huge market and they're usually pretty basic.

It's probably worth waiting though until a few decent games are out.

[Macphisto80]

Oculus have actually been very clever with bundling a Gear VR with the S7. It pushes their product out there to the masses. First in the door, and maybe that's the market they'll have a lionshare in, which could prove massive in the future.

[iSmiff]

This is a pretty cool app.

https://youtu.be/bjE6qXd6Itw

[Chakan]

Pornhub have added a VR section apparently.

[CraigDS]

Pornhub have added a VR section apparently.

Was just about to post this, but seems you did I'll just call you a perv.

That app above seems cool, but would your desktop appear curved as much as that if actually using it in VR? As think it's too curved otherwise.

[Chakan]

Was just about to post this, but seems you did I'll just call you a perv.

That app above seems cool, but would your desktop appear curved as much as that if actually using it in VR? As think it's too curved otherwise.

It actually came up on my facebook timeline.

*That's my story and i'm sticking to it.

[iSmiff]

Was just about to post this, but seems you did I'll just call you a perv.

That app above seems cool, but would your desktop appear curved as much as that if actually using it in VR? As think it's too curved otherwise.

i think it might look more normal using the VR headset

[Macphisto80]

Pornhub have added a VR section apparently.

Sky have also announced they will be broadcasting sports in VR.

When you look at it, that's the porn industry and Sky all jumping on the bandwagon before these things have even hit the mainstream yet. That tells you something about VR and how big of an impact it's going to have on society. It's going to be massive.

[blert596]

VR Gear just arrived at work today. Lashed the S7 into it and its all pretty simple really. Everyone in the office is like "you'll look a knob with that on" (fair one like).

Then theyre all like "giz a go, giz a go"

I only had the 360 pics on but everyone was pretty much taken aback by how immersed you become in it.

[Macphisto80]

VR Gear just arrived at work today. Lashed the S7 into it and its all pretty simple really. Everyone in the office is like "you'll look a knob with that on" (fair one like).

Then theyre all like "giz a go, giz a go"

I only had the 360 pics on but everyone was pretty much taken aback by how immersed you become in it.

I had my first go on one earlier. Initially I wasn't sure about the narrow DOF, seeing that the lenses can't be positioned to mitigate that like on the more dedicated devices, but as soon as it I was comfortable with it on my head, I couldn't help but be immediately impressed. Even in the Oculus home menu screen, it's obvious that these things are not going to be a passing fad or a gimmick. The way you perceive depth, and more vividly, scale, is incredible. I instantly felt that I was no longer sitting in my real surroundings, but instead in what felt like a very open and large space. The narrow DOF, and screen door effect is apparent, but isn't really an issue, and I can only imagine that improving as the screen technology gets better.

I never played any games on it, but only tried some stuff like the 360 image and video demos. Straight way it's obvious that this will be a massive part of entertainment in the future. The 360 panoramic images are stunning. The image quality isn't exceptional, but the way it presents the size of real life objects is something that has to be experienced. It literally transports you into the space that the image was taken in. The images were mostly in Thailand that had you stood outside some of the stunning architecture of the ruins and palaces there. What grabs you is that everything is in actual scale. You look around and crane your neck to look up at some massive buildings, and when you are up high, it feels like it.

The second demo I tried as a video of being inside the England changing rooms inside Wembley. The video is slightly blurry. I don't think it was recorded in true 4k, but in either case, again it felt amazing. Vardy, Sturridge and co. walked past me as they come out of the tunnel. You then look around, stood smack bang in the middle of the pitch, and you get a proper sense of the size of the arena. The camera then switches to behind the net as shots are taken at it, and I found myself almost flinching as the ball was being blasted into the back of it. I can see where this is going. Soon there will be sports services that you'll pay a ticket for, and you'll be instantly transported straight to a selected area of a stadium for a football game that you can watch from the stands or the side of the pitch, or maybe even on board an F1 car as it races around a track at 200mph. The potential for sports in VR is incredible.

I tried two other short demos: one was me sat inside a brand new Volkswagon inside a car show room. I actually did something stupid by trying to reach out and put my hands on the steering wheel for this one. I knew it wasn't real, but I still couldn't stop my brain from sending a signal down to my hands to want to reach out and touch something. The other was a demo of what looked like Jurassic Park, where a huge Brachiosaur was in front of my face. This looked amazing.

The only downside to Gear VR that I experienced was that there is a slight adjustment period for your eyes due to the postion of the lenses. Also, within a couple of minutes, they fogged up, but I think that was more down to the headset being too tight than anything else. The FOV could be wider, but it doesn't really bother you too much. All in all, for a 1st gen portable device that isn't even a "proper" VR unit, it's extremely impressive and is enough to convince me totally that these things are going to be absolutely huge.

The fella with the grey hair at the end of this review says that he thinks this is the new TV, when TV's first came out. That's a huge statement, and one that I have to agree with.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/ZC2VIE0hkko" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/ZC2VIE0hkko</a>

[blert596]

I had my first go on one earlier. Initially I wasn't sure about the narrow DOF, seeing that the lenses can't be positioned to mitigate that like on the more dedicated devices, but as soon as it I was comfortable with it on my head, I couldn't help but be immediately impressed. Even in the Oculus home menu screen, it's obvious that these things are not going to be a passing fad or a gimmick. The way you perceive depth, and more vividly, scale, is incredible. I instantly felt that I was no longer sitting in my real surroundings, but instead in what felt like a very open and large space. The narrow DOF, and screen door effect is apparent, but isn't really an issue, and I can only imagine that improving as the screen technology gets better.

I never played any games on it, but only tried some stuff like the 360 image and video demos. Straight way it's obvious that this will be a massive part of entertainment in the future. The 360 panoramic images are stunning. The image quality isn't exceptional, but the way it presents the size of real life objects is something that has to be experienced. It literally transports you into the space that the image was taken in. The images were mostly in Thailand that had you stood outside some of the stunning architecture of the ruins and palaces there. What grabs you is that everything is in actual scale. You look around and crane your neck to look up at some massive buildings, and when you are up high, it feels like it.

The second demo I tried as a video of being inside the England changing rooms inside Wembley. The video is slightly blurry. I don't think it was recorded in true 4k, but in either case, again it felt amazing. Vardy, Sturridge and co. walked past me as they come out of the tunnel. You then look around, stood smack bang in the middle of the pitch, and you get a proper sense of the size of the arena. The camera then switches to behind the net as shots are taken at it, and I found myself almost flinching as the ball was being blasted into the back of it. I can see where this is going. Soon there will be sports services that you'll pay a ticket for, and you'll be instantly transported straight to a selected area of a stadium for a football game that you can watch from the stands or the side of the pitch, or maybe even on board an F1 car as it races around a track at 200mph. The potential for sports in VR is incredible.

I tried two other short demos: one was me sat inside a brand new Volkswagon inside a car show room. I actually did something stupid by trying to reach out and put my hands on the steering wheel for this one. I knew it wasn't real, but I still couldn't stop my brain from sending a signal down to my hands to want to reach out and touch something. The other was a demo of what looked like Jurassic Park, where a huge Brachiosaur was in front of my face. This looked amazing.

The only downside to Gear VR that I experienced was that there is a slight adjustment period for your eyes due to the postion of the lenses. Also, within a couple of minutes, they fogged up, but I think that was more down to the headset being too tight than anything else. The FOV could be wider, but it doesn't really bother you too much. All in all, for a 1st gen portable device that isn't even a "proper" VR unit, it's extremely impressive and is enough to convince me totally that these things are going to be absolutely huge.

The fella with the grey hair at the end of this review says that he thinks this is the new TV, when TV's first came out. That's a huge statement, and one that I have to agree with.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/ZC2VIE0hkko" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/ZC2VIE0hkko</a>

That pretty much covers how I feel about it mac. Its been a bit of a revelation - and I fully understand why they say sit on a chair that allows you to rotate through 360 degrees. I'v found myself climbing over the back of the couch almost on one or two occasions. And I've done the reaching out thing too.  I've also had my other phone ring next to me while wearing the VR gear, and been surprised when I turned to look down for it only to realise I was looking at the VR image. Quite a strange reaction.

There's some fantastic photos (3D 360) in the Occulos bit where they have monthly competitions and submissions. Breathtaking stuff.

I downloaded Temple Run for my lad as its one of his fav games but he's not played it yet. I had a quick go on it and realised I was as bad on the VR as I was on the normal game. Meh.

[BER]

Watched a good bit of the giantbomb Rift and Vive marathons.... gah, i wish VR was three years further down the road, and it kind of feels like it should be, like why did it take a singular geek in his garage to kickstart this whole thing off?

[Snail]

Been playing with the Gear at work. Once you get past the "I look like a tit" stage, it's awesome (and freaky as fuck).

[Andy @ Allerton!]

What's the best one if you're not remotely bothered about VR games and just want to play normal PC games (Through Steam or whatever) as if you've got a giant screen in front of you?) - And possibly real 3D rendering?

[Titi Camara]

What's the best one if you're not remotely bothered about VR games and just want to play normal PC games (Through Steam or whatever) as if you've got a giant screen in front of you?) - And possibly real 3D rendering?

Surely just the cheapest one so the rift.

[Titi Camara]

After watching a ruck of trailers last night I'm considering going on a bread and water diet for the next 6 weeks or so and buying a VIVE!

[iSmiff]

the only thing i have against the Vive is the space needed. I know you don't technically need it and you can play game seated just like on the Rift but i begrudge paying the extra for something i simply don't have room for in my Pc room

[Ziltoid]

It's £499 with £30 postage, so £529

i remember when a 40" 1080p cost over five grand

Sorry to quote an age old post but i have a quote at work for a 42" Plasma for £4,500 (no HDMI etc) to a bloke who was kitting his house out - this was back in 2003

[iSmiff]

in 2003 it was probably not even 1080p ?

[Ziltoid]

in 2003 it was probably not even 1080p ?

No, it was miles off, probably 720i - the next step up from 576 CRT 

Along these lines - which was 480p

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,1380822,00.asp

[Schmidt]

Surely just the cheapest one so the rift.

I would've expected the Vive to have some nifty integration with Steam, considering the relationship between HTC and Valve, so that might make it a better option for regular gaming if most of your games are in your Steam library. The camera's do mean a bit more hassle with set up though so I imagine it'll come down to personal preference as much as anything when choosing which hardware to go for.

All of them are good pieces of hardware at least so it seems unlikely that people will regret choosing one over the other any time soon.

[Macphisto80]

the only thing i have against the Vive is the space needed. I know you don't technically need it and you can play game seated just like on the Rift but i begrudge paying the extra for something i simply don't have room for in my Pc room

But that's the whole selling point of the Vive. As you say, needing the space is optional, but if you want to take advantage of it, it's there, and I don't see any real reason for a VR headset not wanting to take advantage of the full potential.  I'm sure the Rift will eventually go down that route also, as it's capable. The thing is, and this is the kicker for the Rift, the Touch controllers are supposed to be an additional cost of around 200USD, so technically, you're paying the same for a Vive with the controls. The only thing the Vive is doing is making it mandatory to have the controllers bundled, as the games are built to take advantage of them. The Vive also allows you to draw the actual chaperone in-game warning system yourself, which is very useful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnciEkUDnhs

What's the best one if you're not remotely bothered about VR games and just want to play normal PC games (Through Steam or whatever) as if you've got a giant screen in front of you?) - And possibly real 3D rendering?

But why would you be interested in VR if you aren't interested in VR games?

If you want to play games already out that have either been converted or hacked, then the Rift is the best option for that. Most games are just that, though, hacks. They haven't been properly calibrated for VR, so you should expect odd results.

[iSmiff]

ah i wouldn't get too bogged down with who is including what

they'll both fail

for me the screen tech needs to be better, i want VR 4K

[Macphisto80]

ah i wouldn't get too bogged down with who is including what

they'll both fail

for me the screen tech needs to be better, i want VR 4K

4k per eyeball? That'd probably cost you about 4k.

Funnily enough, that's possible now. I think the Sony Experia screen is true 4k. It's just a matter of time before they shrink the screen sizes down to where its small enough to fit two into a headset.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

But that's the whole selling point of the Vive. As you say, needing the space is optional, but if you want to take advantage of it, it's there, and I don't see any real reason for a VR headset not wanting to take advantage of the full potential.  I'm sure the Rift will eventually go down that route also, as it's capable. The thing is, and this is the kicker for the Rift, the Touch controllers are supposed to be an additional cost of around 200USD, so technically, you're paying the same for a Vive with the controls. The only thing the Vive is doing is making it mandatory to have the controllers bundled, as the games are built to take advantage of them. The Vive also allows you to draw the actual chaperone in-game warning system yourself, which is very useful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnciEkUDnhs
But why would you be interested in VR if you aren't interested in VR games?

If you want to play games already out that have either been converted or hacked, then the Rift is the best option for that. Most games are just that, though, hacks. They haven't been properly calibrated for VR, so you should expect odd results.

Because if it can show games I've already got in true 3d and as if you're watching on a mega-big screen then what's not to like?

Also, you can get hold of good VR games as they come out as well.

But it would annoy me not being able to play plenty of excellent games on whatever rig I went for.