Topic: Liverpool's Midfield

[RedorRed]

Fuck England.... played 2 decent teams and lost both.

Nothing has changed.......

[RedorRed]

Fuck England.... played 2 decent teams and lost both.

Nothing has changed.......

and it proved why Kane shouldn’t be captain..... Stirling a few yards out with an open goal and he still goes for goal twice.

[mrantarctica]

Hendo is showing tonite why klopp went for keita and fabino.  The Croatian midfield have been by-passing england's midfield easily.

Probably more accurate to say Alli and Lingard showing tonight why Klopp went for Fabinho and Keita. No doubt that was his weakest performance, but he wasn't at all helped by an anonymous midfield and by the back three basically bypassing them in favour of a long ball or trying to play down the flanks.

You can't win games by having no ball winners or retainers in midfield. Henderson couldn't get the ball on his own, nor could either Alli or Lingard. They needed to be more cohesive. IMHO I thought Loftus-Cheek should have been there. His athleticism and power would have been something Croatia would have struggled with.

[El Lobo]

Hendo had a good World Cup, hopefully kicks in again with even better players alongside him in CM

[newterp]

Hendo had a good World Cup, hopefully kicks in again with even better players the greatest midfielder(s) in the world alongside him in CM

Naby and Faby

(though that 3 may lack some creativity - might be a bit redundant too - but my point stands dammit!)

[tubby]

Henderson was on a hiding to nothing tonight, stuck in midfield on his own vs Modric and Rakitic.  Could've been a bit more composed on the ball but he was getting zero help.

[mrantarctica]

If you want to look for scapegoats, then I can think of quite a few players before jumping for the usual Henderson is to blame for all the worlds evils

That England had only perhaps 2-3 chances in 120 minutes is not the fault of the defensive midfielder. The reality is that Croatia are a better team, and played better on the day. The England team has good players all over the pitch but none of them played particularly well,  were tactically outdone by the other side, the team lacked bravery and composure in the crucial moments, and went to sleep at important times.

[newterp]

US announcer was very impressed with Henderson all game - knowing that he had a lot (A LOT) of dirty work to do tonight.

[Lastrador]

Hendo is showing tonite why klopp went for keita and fabino.  The Croatian midfield have been by-passing england's midfield easily.

What a bizarre comment. Henderson completely nullify Modric for most of the match, half fit. They couldn’t get anything going on midfield until they scored and England heads went down.

[jillcwhomever]

Hendo is showing tonite why klopp went for keita and fabino.  The Croatian midfield have been by-passing england's midfield easily.

Modric wasn't at the party in the first half.

[Magz50]

hendo played well, obviously used to having world class disposal options like Mane and Salah to whip long fast balls to, but Lingard & Alli were dreadful.

[Ratboy3G]

If you want to look for scapegoats, then I can think of quite a few players before jumping for the usual Henderson is to blame for all the worlds evils

That England had only perhaps 2-3 chances in 120 minutes is not the fault of the defensive midfielder. The reality is that Croatia are a better team, and played better on the day. The England team has good players all over the pitch but none of them played particularly well,  were tactically outdone by the other side, the team lacked bravery and composure in the crucial moments, and went to sleep at important times.

Well said, Alli and Lingard were anonymous

[Lubeh]

Hendo was Englands best midfielder tonight, he had no help what so ever, as for Harry Kane omg, he has to be the most pointless player on  the pitch, at times i forgot he was playing. people really dont understand what hendo does, he is what Didier Deschamp was for France the "water carrier" does all the hard work, so others benefit and look better, should also have been captain was the only  one giving orders where to go etc

[farawayred]

I would be so, so happy if Hendo was our worst midfielder. God, we'd be indestructible!

[markedasred]

I was more interested in watching Hendo and Lovren last night than the score, and both had great games where loads of other players looked anonymous. Henderson with the captains armband might have been able to tell Kane not to be so selfish with a tap in available on the other side of the goal. His concentration on his golden boot probably cost England that game. I think people get carried away with Southgate a bit as well. Obviously he is far better than the Owl and has more potential than slippery sam, but he's not good enough for the top half of the premier league yet. Not sure if any of the world cup managers were to be fair though.

[Bolrick]

hey......

maybe i should have been more clear. England did not lose because of hendo. Yes, you guys were right. Kane & Delle were awful. I just wanna  highlight that tottenham (and england) are not gonna win anything with Kane as their main striker as he is more concerned about scoring goals than winning the game for the team he is playing. Sterling was open on goal and kane opted to shoot himself (like a f**king d1ckhead). If england had scored that...they would have won.

Now back to hendo......His role with england was a little easier than he has with us IMO. He had 3 CBs behind him most of the time. For us.... Hendo usually had to do more (especially whenever gini goes awol) with 2 CBs.

The thing is that while against sweden he did well (even when kane & delle were strolling around in the pitch then too).... when he comes up against modric and rakitic he seems to be a little slower to the ball. His short passes seem even shorter. When england were the better team in the 1st half, hendo looked composed.

When Engand let croatia dictate the play from the 2nd half onward...guess what.... Hendo looked lost (similar to how  he does with us whenever we face teams with a  good midfield). He was as medicore as rest of the english team apart from trippier and maguire who kept up their performance throughout the game. He could have stood out like the 2 above mentioned players but he caved like the rest of the english players...


I actually like hendo. If you check my previous posts...i did mention that hendo looked world class when he did the "ball winning role higher up in the pitch" when we came in 2nd under rodgers and that why isn't he deployed to that anymore.

The same thing happen in the champions league final because lets face it....karius mistake or not...real madrid were running all over & dictating our midfield from the 30th min mark.

To summarize.....

1)Hendo is not the reason england lost
2)Hendo struggles when he comes up with better quality midfielders
3)Klopp is right to recognize that because we have signed 2 absolute class midfielders in keita and fabino.

This means...for the 1st time since mascherano & alonso .....we are not gonna let the opposition players run through/dictate our midfield anymore. Excited to see a dominating midfield with an awesome strikeforce.

[Mr Mingebag Squid]

Erm.... ok

[BabuYagu]

hey......

maybe i should have been more clear. England did not lose because of hendo. Yes, you guys were right. Kane & Delle were awful. I just wanna  highlight that tottenham (and england) are not gonna win anything with Kane as their main striker as he is more concerned about scoring goals than winning the game for the team he is playing. Sterling was open on goal and kane opted to shoot himself (like a f**king d1ckhead). If england had scored that...they would have won.

Now back to hendo......His role with england was a little easier than he has with us IMO. He had 3 CBs behind him most of the time. For us.... Hendo usually had to do more (especially whenever gini goes awol) with 2 CBs.

The thing is that while against sweden he did well (even when kane & delle were strolling around in the pitch then too).... when he comes up against modric and rakitic he seems to be a little slower to the ball. His short passes seem even shorter. When england were the better team in the 1st half, hendo looked composed.

When Engand let croatia dictate the play from the 2nd half onward...guess what.... Hendo looked lost (similar to how  he does with us whenever we face teams with a  good midfield). He was as medicore as rest of the english team apart from trippier and maguire who kept up their performance throughout the game. He could have stood out like the 2 above mentioned players but he caved like the rest of the english players...


I actually like hendo. If you check my previous posts...i did mention that hendo looked world class when he did the "ball winning role higher up in the pitch" when we came in 2nd under rodgers and that why isn't he deployed to that anymore.

The same thing happen in the champions league final because lets face it....karius mistake or not...real madrid were running all over & dictating our midfield from the 30th min mark.

To summarize.....

1)Hendo is not the reason england lost
2)Hendo struggles when he comes up with better quality midfielders
3)Klopp is right to recognize that because we have signed 2 absolute class midfielders in keita and fabino.

This means...for the 1st time since mascherano & alonso .....we are not gonna let the opposition players run through/dictate our midfield anymore. Excited to see a dominating midfield with an awesome strikeforce.

Literally just stopped reading here. Slating Henderson after last nights game was bad enough. But that was one line and I finished it before I had time to process that it was nonsense and you are someone who just looks to criticise those you dislike rather than actually discuss/understanding football from the game that literally just happened..

But now I can see you genuinely don't get it. If from watching all our games last season, the thing you gathered from it is "Henderson has a lot to do because of Gini" then any conversation is pointless. You are just regurgitating whatever the popular thing is to criticise players for - or the media narrative.

[JackWard33]

Henderson did well last night until his legs went a bit from 70 and he struggled to keep the ball but it was ridiculous how isolated he got in midfield.
Thought Southgate got found out in the 2nd half - he had to change it around the 55/60 minute mark - Henderson was isolated and they couldn't progress the ball or nullify what they wanted to do in midfield. He then took off the only player on the pitch - Sterling - who could 'get England up the pitch' and disrupt what they were doing and replaced him with a forward who couldn't affect the game. It was bizarre to let that game continue with Rakitic and Modric basically able to do what they want in space for most of the 2nd half.

Oh well - was nice to see Henderson get some credit from some of the voices that have dismissed him, should be a boost for him
He'll be fucking knackered for us for a couple of months mind!!

[sms1986]

Fuck England.... played 2 decent teams and lost both.

Nothing has changed.......

To be fair, they were trying to lose the first one.

[legendkiller]

See he is becoming the whipping boy again with video packages of him for full 60 secs making bad passes or clearing his lines . Pretty sad had a great world cup in formation where I still dont know Ali Kane Lingards actual roles . Southgate clearly got it wrong tactically against   Modric n co .

Lovern and Hendo looked warriors and leaders this WC . Good to see

[Giono]

See he is becoming the whipping boy again with video packages of him for full 60 secs making bad passes or clearing his lines . Pretty sad had a great world cup in formation where I still dont know Ali Kane Lingards actual roles . Southgate clearly got it wrong tactically against   Modric n co .

Lovern and Hendo looked warriors and leaders this WC . Good to see

Witchunts are the norm. But I think you are right that a lot of it comes down to the manager’s tactics. But also part of Croatia's plan was to put pressure on the midfield including Henderson. He has strengths, but we all know that he can be pressed. They knew it, and Southgate had no response.

[catinthebag]

Reading all these comments online disparaging Hendo and saying Dier is the player that Hendo's admirers think Hendo is... Well, he has Delph and Loftus-Cheek on each side of him instead of Alli and Lingard who are no help at all. Hendo has his limitations, but he was, for many matches, England's only proper midfielder.

Now Belgium can win for all I care. I just hope they return him in one piece.

[sms1986]

Lovern and Hendo looked warriors and leaders this WC . Good to see

They certainly did, hope they take that into the new season with us.

[-Daws-]

Literally just stopped reading here. Slating Henderson after last nights game was bad enough. But that was one line and I finished it before I had time to process that it was nonsense and you are someone who just looks to criticise those you dislike rather than actually discuss/understanding football from the game that literally just happened..

But now I can see you genuinely don't get it. If from watching all our games last season, the thing you gathered from it is "Henderson has a lot to do because of Gini" then any conversation is pointless. You are just regurgitating whatever the popular thing is to criticise players for - or the media narrative.

Hate it when Gini goes on a wander and totally neglects all his tactical responsibility. No discipline that boy, needs Gerrard to babysit him.

[jepovic]

Henderson is a fine footballer, but his limitations become very visible when playing world class midfielders like Modric and de Bruyne. His close control is just not that good. No shame in that. At least he performed well, not far below his maximum like some other players. And I think he was better than some similar players like Fernandinho or Gundogan. Not to mention Dier

[OOS]

Literally just stopped reading here. Slating Henderson after last nights game was bad enough. But that was one line and I finished it before I had time to process that it was nonsense and you are someone who just looks to criticise those you dislike rather than actually discuss/understanding football from the game that literally just happened..

But now I can see you genuinely don't get it. If from watching all our games last season, the thing you gathered from it is "Henderson has a lot to do because of Gini" then any conversation is pointless. You are just regurgitating whatever the popular thing is to criticise players for - or the media narrative.

Or people just have a different point of view.

I enjoy the debates between different posters on this forum, it what's makes it great. People having views on football, and at the end agreeing to disagree.

[David in Edinburgh]

Henderson is a fine footballer, but his limitations become very visible when playing world class midfielders like Modric and de Bruyne. His close control is just not that good. No shame in that. At least he performed well, not far below his maximum like some other players. And I think he was better than some similar players like Fernandinho or Gundogan. Not to mention Dier

To be fair to Hendo most midfielders in the world struggle against that pair.

[Giono]

Or people just have a different point of view.

I enjoy the debates between different posters on this forum, it what's makes it great. People having views on football, and at the end agreeing to disagree.

Anyone can have an opinion. But there is such a thing as truth. The internet blurs that sometimes as there is so much opinion being shared.

The original poster claimed that Henderson is burdened by having to compensate for Gini. That is factually untrue. Actually the opposite is true in that Gini was asked by Klopp to adjust his game last season.

If there is going to be honest debate in here, part of that is calling out BS.

[BabuYagu]

Hate it when Gini goes on a wander and totally neglects all his tactical responsibility. No discipline that boy, needs Gerrard to babysit him.

It's no coincidence that liability is an anagram of Wijnaldum in Dutch. Even his mum knew.

[BabuYagu]

Reading all these comments online disparaging Hendo and saying Dier is the player that Hendo's admirers think Hendo is... Well, he has Delph and Loftus-Cheek on each side of him instead of Alli and Lingard who are no help at all. Hendo has his limitations, but he was, for many matches, England's only proper midfielder.

Now Belgium can win for all I care. I just hope they return him in one piece.

Eric Dier made the most errors resulting in a shot last season of all midfielders in the top 4 leagues (Ger, Eng, Spa, Ita) with 7 - Which is 3 more than the next closest (Xhaka, Cabaye, Lemina, Delaney)

@JHenderson @GWijnaldum @JamesMilner & @Alex_OxChambo  = 0

#HatefulOptaFacts

[him_15]

Really looking forward to our midfield department this year!

[Bobinhood]

I just want to say, Jordan Henderson was immense at the world cup. Barely Claim might have been named Captain in an ill fated attempt to pump his ego up to a point that he might score a goal of some importance at a time of some importance, (Well that sure didnt work) but it was obvious to the whole world that Jordan was the actual Captain of that team, its best player and its driving force. i got a chuckle when he had to tell Claim to relax and not celebrate too soon, just before Dire took a crap pen that should have been saved and luckily wasn't. Perfect illustration of what was what.

Well done Hendo. Good luck to anybody who wants your spot.

Edit : and btw i believe he played hurt against Croatia. no proof of that but i would be surprised if he wasn't based on the half step he didnt have unless he really needed it. That'll come out eventually imo. Maybe when he starts 3 weeks late because he knackered his hammy, but i hope not obviously. #Warrior

[Johns_Barn]

Thought Southgate got found out in the 2nd half - he had to change it around the 55/60 minute mark - Henderson was isolated and they couldn't progress the ball or nullify what they wanted to do in midfield. He then took off the only player on the pitch - Sterling - who could 'get England up the pitch' and disrupt what they were doing and replaced him with a forward who couldn't affect the game. It was bizarre to let that game continue with Rakitic and Modric basically able to do what they want in space for most of the 2nd half.

Didn't pay a massive amount of attention to eng-errr-laaand; did I read he made the same subs in every game?

[jackh]

Lovren and Hendo looked warriors and leaders this WC . Good to see

Great to be seeing some geniune and well-deserved positive feedback & discussion about some of our most maligned senior players during recent years.  They've not just had good summers, but they had very good 2017/18 campaigns overall.  Lovren's always played with great passion, and when his confidence as up as it has been for much of his time under Klopp, this can be channeled towards excellent responsibility-taking skills - very happy with Lovren & van Dijk as likely first-choice/opening-day pairing for the new campaign.  Henderson, meanwhile, has adapted his game really well under Klopp and has gone about his often thankless work with great efficiency.

Anyhow, this is the midfield thread...

Despite my mention above, I really am looking forward to seeing Henderson freed up a little this season.  With Gerrard in the deeper role back in 2013/14, I used to enjoy Henderson using his energy to break beyond the attacking lines, stretching opposition midfields and finding himself in the box - a cat amongst the pigeons.  It'll be good to see that a bit more often again.

Lovely to think that's just one option too - Lallana looked sharp last night, Shaqiri is an exciting addition, and Milner and Wijnaldum are more than trusted performers.

[88_RED]

Been reading in various threads about how Hendo will struggle to break into our side this season or how he will be slowly phased out etc etc..

I think it's all Bollox..

Hendo is a very important cog in Klopp's wheel..
I also think Klopp really appreciates Hendo a lot more than some of the fans..

Apart from being the engine of our side he is also the leader out there and that's something neither Naby or Fabino have yet.. They won't be barking orders and organising at least for the initial part of the season..

Hendo will be more important for us this season then most people believe..

[Tony19:6]

Hendo will be more important for us this season then most people believe..

Agree, think we might also see Milly getting more minutes too.

Thought he was very good (better than I expected ) towards the end of last season.

Mr versatile 

[LallanaInPyjamas]

Been reading in various threads about how Hendo will struggle to break into our side this season or how he will be slowly phased out etc etc..

I think it's all Bollox..

Hendo is a very important cog in Klopp's wheel..
I also think Klopp really appreciates Hendo a lot more than some of the fans..

Apart from being the engine of our side he is also the leader out there and that's something neither Naby or Fabino have yet.. They won't be barking orders and organising at least for the initial part of the season..

Hendo will be more important for us this season then most people believe..

You're probably right, but I'm not sure why you and others get a little precious about people questioning Henderson. Milner has received the same treatment in the previous two summers. Lallana this summer. They're all wrong, of course, because they're all good, versatile, important members of the squad who will play their parts throughout the season both on and off the pitch.

Equally, though, Klopp has brought Fabinho and Keita in for a reason, and that's with a clear attempt to improve our first XI.

[Giono]

Agree, think we might also see Milly getting more minutes too.

Thought he was very good (better than I expected ) towards the end of last season.

Mr versatile 

What? We have the additions of fabinho, keita, lallana this season and you think Milner will get even more time? I’m not seeing that. He got a lot of time last season due to Can and Ox’s injuries. He’ll not get more this season. Everyone will probably get less.

I think we may see a better Henderson with all the competition, but I doubt we will see more of him with so many quality midfielders.
 

[LallanaInPyjamas]

What? We have the additions of fabinho, keita, lallana this season and you think Milner will get even more time? I’m not seeing that. He got a lot of time last season due to Can and Ox’s injuries. He’ll not get more this season. Everyone will probably get less.

I think we may see a better Henderson with all the competition, but I doubt we will see more of him with so many quality midfielders.

Don't forget that Milner only started two of our first 13 games last season, though. I don't see that low count being repeated.

Proportionally he may not feature more across this season than he did in the final few months of last season, but he may rack up more minutes when comparing season to season.

To me it felt like Klopp was challenging him to earn his place in midfield having more than likely requested to no longer play at left-back. While injuries undoubtedly aided him, his performances did improve as time wore on and he earned that spot.