Topic: Bitcoin and Cryptocurrency

[Red Beret]

I put about £1k in now have about £400 worth of coins. Was prepared to lose it all, which may still happen. But hope it goes up again even if nowhere it was before.

Yeah, I'm not buying any right now; if anything the price is too low.  Thinking of cashing in my Binance holdings and moving everything over to Bitcoin on Coinbase; just hold a little bit of Litecoin and Ethereum

[Chakan]

What’s more than tits up?

[OneTouchFooty]

Is it still nothing more than a speculative gamble? Has it been adopted as a form of currency in anything other than a few niche gimmicky online spaces and hipster coffeeshops in Silicon Valley?

[Peabee]

I tried to tell you all when it was over $11000. it’s near worthless. It’s only being propped up by some big investors that would lose it all by sparking a sell-off.

[Chakan]

ETH under $200

[Charlie Adams fried egg]

I don't invest in this but I do follow markets and do a bit of investing every now and then.
The big irony is that despite the falls, people that invested late September last year have still doubled their money (albeit down from the peak of being 600% up)
Most investing wisdom points to the futility of trying to time markets - equity investors returns are more than halved by missing the 25 best days market performance over the last 30 years.

The question I have for investors in crypto is this:
Bearing in mind your investment could be wiped out, what sort of returns would be high enough for you to cash out?

[Chakan]

I don't invest in this but I do follow markets and do a bit of investing every now and then.
The big irony is that despite the falls, people that invested late September last year have still doubled their money (albeit down from the peak of being 600% up)
Most investing wisdom points to the futility of trying to time markets - equity investors returns are more than halved by missing the 25 best days market performance over the last 30 years.

The question I have for investors in crypto is this:
Bearing in mind your investment could be wiped out, what sort of returns would be high enough for you to cash out?

Well i'm not breaking even yet and I knew going in that it could tumble, so i'll just leave the money there until it becomes viable again.

[conman]

Is it still nothing more than a speculative gamble? Has it been adopted as a form of currency in anything other than a few niche gimmicky online spaces and hipster coffeeshops in Silicon Valley?

and Japan

[Dark_Horse]

XRP is moving....

[plura]

I don't invest in this but I do follow markets and do a bit of investing every now and then.
The big irony is that despite the falls, people that invested late September last year have still doubled their money (albeit down from the peak of being 600% up)
Most investing wisdom points to the futility of trying to time markets - equity investors returns are more than halved by missing the 25 best days market performance over the last 30 years.

The question I have for investors in crypto is this:
Bearing in mind your investment could be wiped out, what sort of returns would be high enough for you to cash out?

I started investing a bit more than one year ago. I’ve cashed out a few times to put me back to getting my money back and then some. I do have a lot left and what I have left is not really much in Bitcoin but in some other projects that I believe in. It’s hard to say when I’d fully cash out, if ever. We are in the beginning of the birth of a new form of digital currencies and platforms. And not just P2P currencies, but m2m and all sorts of digital transfers and ownerships.

So sure you can see your investment like traditional stock or funds investment when you might sell for retirement or whatever but for me that’s just one part of many. So I’m waiting to see where this digital gold is really going before making to hasty decisions.

[Red Beret]

Prices seem to be recovering somewhat.  I've not been investing during this ultra low period because I was concerned about throwing good money after bad, but I might take another look next week.

[Crumble]

A bit of encouragement here from my favourite economist...

"… the influx of hundreds of millions of traditional brokerage customers will do the same for crypto prices.
Those who position themselves now before this onrush of new investors will be in place to make truly life-changing wealth."

https://bonnerandpartners.com/bitcoins-apple-moment/

[Giono]

A bit of encouragement here from my favourite economist...

"… the influx of hundreds of millions of traditional brokerage customers will do the same for crypto prices.
Those who position themselves now before this onrush of new investors will be in place to make truly life-changing wealth."

https://bonnerandpartners.com/bitcoins-apple-moment/

Careful with investment hype. People aim to make markets...and then pull out. That's how you get really rich.

[Giono]

Prices seem to be recovering somewhat.  I've not been investing during this ultra low period because I was concerned about throwing good money after bad, but I might take another look next week.

This isn't a critique. I truly want to know. What motivates you to buy? Is thete a value you see that others are missing?

[Red Beret]

This isn't a critique. I truly want to know. What motivates you to buy? Is thete a value you see that others are missing?

Speaking for myself it just seemed the easiest way to learn how to invest.  I've still not put anymore in; between my holiday and my impending house move I just can't spare the cash. 

My investment right now is probably barely worth half what I paid, but I only put several hundred in so I'm just going to see where it goes.  Prices seem fairly static right now.

[telekon]

I tried to tell you all when it was over $11000. it’s near worthless. It’s only being propped up by some big investors that would lose it all by sparking a sell-off.

I met an acquaintance at Christmas 2017 whose mom had received bitcoin years back. She had made a hundred thousand or the likes without even investing. I'm not an expert but I urged her to sell. I hope she did. It was crazy at the time.

Unless it's accepted as currency globally, I don't think it will be worth the investment at this moment. Just a hunch more than anything though.

Since the global economy is on its way down (most likely) and it looks a bit like it did circa 2007, I'd go for something like gold to invest in.

[kavah]

Digital gold, maybe?

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/26/bitcoin-is-shockingly-stable-during-the-market-sell-off-this-week.html?__source=yahoo%7Cfinance%7Cheadline%7Cstory%7C&par=yahoo&yptr=yahoo

[clinical]

Well just checked. Down by about 75% of my initial investment now. Just £250 left. Well i did say I was prepared to lose it all. 

[Alan_X]

There's no pleasure in seeing people losing their savings on the promise of ever increasing value.

Ir's not that there isn't easy money to be made - the people who got in early made a fortune - but this has always been based on nothing tangible.

Ironically, I'm working on an exhibition about money - and money has always been about the use of some kind of token to represent something of value. Gold, goods, labour, debt... what was bitcoin's value based on apart from scarcity?

The technology is really interesting and useful but it was overwhelmed by people disappearing up their won arses about economic and political change or the rhetoric of the classic speculative bubble.

I hope no one on here has lost more than they could afford.

[thejbs]

I've just been playing with profit for a good while now. My original profit and a little cream off the top was taken out gradually as it went up. Yesterday, I put £100 in when it was really down just for the craic - first money I've put in for a while.

I do feel sorry for those that lost big, but I've never put in anything more than I could afford to lose and took out my initial stake gradually when the profits looked good. I still have a couple of thousand worth of crypto (by current prices) but as it's money I never would've had, I'm just leaving it in there to see what happens - it won't affect me if it goes to zero.

[Barneylfc∗]

How much would $528k in Bitcoin back in Feb be worth today?

[1892tillforever]

How much would $528k in Bitcoin back in Feb be worth today?

Depends on what date in February because it was worth between $8,000 and $11,000 at various times. It is worth just a shade below $4,500 at the time of writing, so that $528k would be worth anywhere between $216,000 and $297,000. Incidentally, that $528,000 would have been worth almost $1 million in January 2018.

[Barneylfc∗]

Depends on what date in February because it was worth between $8,000 and $11,000 at various times. It is worth just a shade below $4,500 at the time of writing, so that $528k would be worth anywhere between $216,000 and $297,000. Incidentally, that $528,000 would have been worth almost $1 million in January 2018.

18th

[1892tillforever]

18th

On the 18th February this year I think the peak price was $10,747. It has risen to $4,569 atm, so that $528,000 would be worth $224,475.

[CraigDS]

For shits and giggles, if you'd had bought $528k worth of bitcoin in Feb 2015 and sold at its peak just before Christmas in 2017, then it would have been worth a bit over £46m.

If you'd have bought in Feb 2012 and sold at the peak then it would have been worth £2,487,005,714 

[kavah]

A short FT video, it made me think of the crazy tulip market in 17th century Amsterdam, the 1634-37 tulip price chart, exactly* the same as the 2014-17 Bitcoin chart. Interestingly it was the Ottomans regulating the market in Istanbul that stabilized prices, so it seems without any government control/support there is no future for crypto-currencies. Of course there is huge demand - I'd guess mainly in China, and I imagine the other BRICs but for now it's going to have to be suitcases full of U.S dollars that find their way to Singapore (I just heard that anecdote - 2nd hand - about a fella buying an apartment there).

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/ubd-v8qvjys" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/ubd-v8qvjys</a>

* according to a youtube clip I just watched 

[Barneylfc∗]

On the 18th February this year I think the peak price was $10,747. It has risen to $4,569 atm, so that $528,000 would be worth $224,475.

Cheers Patrick, good to know.

[CraigDS]

Cheers Patrick, good to know.

What's the story behind you asking? [/noseycunt]

[CraigDS]

Would it have even been possible to liquidate that much bitcoin for that price at that time without causing market chaos?

Possibly if timed right I guess, as it was getting some pretty major coverage and 'normal' people were investing.

It would have started the chaos though (which then happened anyway).

[Barneylfc∗]

What's the story behind you asking? [/noseycunt]

Work related evidence gathering from a wide open social media account for a guy who claims he earns 20k

[thejbs]

Would it have even been possible to liquidate that much bitcoin for that price at that time without causing market chaos?

Apparently there were many big transactions done off market last year.

[Eeyore]

For shits and giggles, if you'd had bought $528k worth of bitcoin in Feb 2015 and sold at its peak just before Christmas in 2017, then it would have been worth a bit over £46m.

If you'd have bought in Feb 2012 and sold at the peak then it would have been worth £2,487,005,714 

The really funny bit is that people believed it was going to carry on rising and lumped on. Madness.

[G a r y]

You have to be bananas to think this thing isn't going to rise again in the future. It is all about market cycles (this isn't even the worst percentage from a 'top' to a 'bottom'. Think we are on a 80% decrease at the moment and the biggest was near 95%.

When you look at the order books on the biggest exchanges such as Bitmex and Binance the strongest historical support is around $3100. If we get that low trust me i'll be well prepared to lash on as much as I can afford and go very very long on leverage.

[Red Beret]

Looking at how the price has collapsed recently I'm very glad I didn't risk more money.  £300 doesn't sound like a lot but that was when LC was in the £50-£75 range; Bitcoin has pretty much halved since the spring. 

On the plus side if I want to invest more I can buy the same amounts as earlier this year for buttons.  Not sure if it would be throwing good money in after bad though - especially as I still haven't quite figured out how to cash out through Coinbase.

[G a r y]

If you are using Coinbase, get yourself on to Coinbase Pro.

Send money from your bank account to Coinbase Pro (takes around two hours - usually less) - free
Buy whatever you want using GBP markets (fees are a hell of a lot less)
When you are ready to sell, sell your crypto into GBP and transfer it back to you bank account.

Simple as really.

Have to be careful if you do make a lot, Coinbase now have a UK Barclays account and you better ready to be looking into paying Capital Gains Tax

[Red Beret]

Oh thanks!

Doubt I'll be in a position to pay CGT but you never know!  

[Alan_X]

You have to be bananas to think this thing isn't going to rise again in the future. It is all about market cycles (this isn't even the worst percentage from a 'top' to a 'bottom'. Think we are on a 80% decrease at the moment and the biggest was near 95%.

When you look at the order books on the biggest exchanges such as Bitmex and Binance the strongest historical support is around $3100. If we get that low trust me i'll be well prepared to lash on as much as I can afford and go very very long on leverage.

Gambler’s fallacy.

I must buy some tulips and get on a load of .com stock.

The rise in bitcoin and other crypto currencies was a classic market bubble, not a market cycle. They may rise but it’s unlikely they will see the same consistent increases they did during the bubble.

Bitcoin etc will be as risky as any other investment.

[G a r y]

Gambler’s fallacy.

I must buy some tulips and get on a load of .com stock.

The rise in bitcoin and other crypto currencies was a classic market bubble, not a market cycle. They may rise but it’s unlikely they will see the same consistent increases they did during the bubble.

Bitcoin etc will be as risky as any other investment.

I didn't suggest we'd see another all time high but it will rise again (probably slower) then a fall. Then repeat. That's a cycle, it's closely tied to psychology too.

Anyway. Keep an eye on $3k area. See what happens around then. It may never get that far but it's worth keeping an eye on, it's got further to go down yet. I'm currently 'short' and have been since $6k



Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

[Barneylfc∗]

How far would this need to drop to consider investing? Is it likely to continue plummeting?

[Red Beret]

How far would this need to drop to consider investing? Is it likely to continue plummeting?

Depends on how much money you can afford to risk.  I invested about four or five months ago when LC was between £57 and £75, and BC was about £6k; if anything I'd say the price is TOO low right now.

This isn't like Gold or Oil or the USD; stuff you KNOW is gonna rise again in due course, so it makes sense to invest when the price is low.  Crypto has only been big for a couple of years, so it's time to see how resilient it is.

I probably invested about £400 initially.  I doubt it's worth more than £100 at the moment.  I'd rather invest more as the price is rising and looking solid.  Say if LC gets back to around £45.