Author Topic: Thread Derailing, Persistent Negativity and Agenda Driven Spin  (Read 89334 times)

Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Thread Derailing, Persistent Negativity and Agenda Driven Spin
« Reply #40 on: January 19, 2013, 08:36:33 pm »
PaulG you make a very good point, we got used to fighting under H&G and for some its hard to stop doing so maybe.

Offline Tomo!

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Re: Thread Derailing, Persistent Negativity and Agenda Driven Spin
« Reply #41 on: January 19, 2013, 08:37:13 pm »
It's not just threads about the club, certain  player threads even one's that are titled appriaciation threads always get the same people jumping in when Kuyt, Carra, Gerrard etc have a bad game and get them locked.
No one is immune to criticism but it goes from that to full on character assassination, insults  and conspiracy theory bollocks.

It's shite that you can't have a Carra thread permanently open because say poster x  won't stop ramming his point across constantly sniping, rumours etc.
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Re: Thread Derailing, Persistent Negativity and Agenda Driven Spin
« Reply #42 on: January 19, 2013, 08:38:06 pm »
All I'll add is this. If you must get stuck in, do it with a little panache, eh? And as yorky always says, take the ball, not the man.

Offline CraigDS

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Re: Thread Derailing, Persistent Negativity and Agenda Driven Spin
« Reply #43 on: January 19, 2013, 08:39:12 pm »
Totally agree its needed - and obviously recognise myself as someone who is clearly included as a culprit of making threads about the owners go round in circles.

It is not so much the threads clearly started about the owners that bother me so much, as people are entitled to their views on them both good and bad. It's the threads tha get derailed with the negative spin over and over when the thread subject is nothing to do with it that really needed to stop.

Offline The 5th Benitle

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Re: Thread Derailing, Persistent Negativity and Agenda Driven Spin
« Reply #44 on: January 19, 2013, 08:39:36 pm »
Schwindlig
Cheers for the feedback mate. But Barney and I did talk about the repetition angle...

Offline micksmith

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Re: Thread Derailing, Persistent Negativity and Agenda Driven Spin
« Reply #45 on: January 19, 2013, 08:40:39 pm »
liking the mute idea. punishes bellends and gives the grown ups a chance to debate in peace
« Last Edit: January 19, 2013, 08:41:29 pm by Hinesy »

Offline Lawnmowerman

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Re: Thread Derailing, Persistent Negativity and Agenda Driven Spin
« Reply #46 on: January 19, 2013, 08:43:02 pm »
Oh, and if the persistent moaners get the good eggs who put the time and effort in here to run this asylum to sack this off I, and countless other sad bastards who spend too long in here will hunt you down. Each and every one.
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Offline CraigDS

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Re: Thread Derailing, Persistent Negativity and Agenda Driven Spin
« Reply #47 on: January 19, 2013, 08:43:04 pm »
Oh, and would like to apologise to anyone fed up of reading my addition to the circular threads hat end up happening.

I had actually decided to self mute myself with regards to any posts about the owners so this thread came at a good time  ;D

Offline Greyfox

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Re: Thread Derailing, Persistent Negativity and Agenda Driven Spin
« Reply #48 on: January 19, 2013, 08:44:50 pm »
Top day, top result. too much to drink. and I still believe top club with passionate fans....and I DO respect the opinions of all our people, because they are our people and frankly we've all been through too much as a fanbase with H&G and often it shows in the reactions demonstrated on this legendary fansite

Offline Floydy

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Re: Thread Derailing, Persistent Negativity and Agenda Driven Spin
« Reply #49 on: January 19, 2013, 08:45:06 pm »
PaulG you make a very good point, we got used to fighting under H&G and for some its hard to stop doing so maybe.
Its weird, I used to go the match with a couple of lads, known them for years, in Rafas last season , on the way home from when we beat spurs 2-0 at anfield in teh re-arranged game and i had a right argument with these lads to the point i lost all respect for them, was disgusted at how they were believeing teh press crap etc , talking rubbish about rafa so on and so forth.  Not really bothered with them since as felt they shown their true colours. Its really strange as i just cut them off completely, thats how easy it baecame back then to be bitter, it all got so messy,  but we have to stick together as fans and try and sort this shit out.   Might give them two lads a bell and see if they fancy meeting up before the City game.
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Re: Thread Derailing, Persistent Negativity and Agenda Driven Spin
« Reply #50 on: January 19, 2013, 08:45:13 pm »
liking the mute idea. punishes bellends and gives the grown ups a chance to debate in piece

To be honest it is probably the "debate" that is the problem myself included too many people post as if it is a debating society where people start with a pre-conceived view point and then try to back up that position and win the debate. the truth is people very rarely change their view point especially on the internet and there is no judge deciding on a winner.

Add in the fact that we are all passionate about the Club, mix in human nature and we end up with car crashes.
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Re: Thread Derailing, Persistent Negativity and Agenda Driven Spin
« Reply #51 on: January 19, 2013, 08:45:50 pm »
Fully Agree with this. I don't think negative opinions are a problem per se, we have to being able to express our opinion and concerns.

It's the kind of bollocks we are getting where we can a million posts when such and such is picked/not-picked that really riles me. Case in point was Carra starting today. Strategically, it could be questioned, but did his inclusion really warrant a torrent of abuse and crap about conspiracy theories?

It's as if people simply want to carry on personal grudges against players, coaching staff or the owners no matter what they do or don't do.

On the pitch, we are seeings some progress - it's a long way back but we are starting to move in the right direction. Mistakes were made last transfer window and we quite rightly pointed it out. Some of it is being fixed now so we give the owners & Rogers some slack to get on with things.

We know where many of the problems lie on and off the pitch, but hows about we pick our battles a little more calmly rather than ranting and raving about everything?



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Offline Jellies

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Re: Thread Derailing, Persistent Negativity and Agenda Driven Spin
« Reply #52 on: January 19, 2013, 08:46:55 pm »
Well. I would like to be an idealist and scream "democracy now", but you're god damn right. I'm sick and tired of the negativity, and I've left the forum for a couple of months plenty of times because of it.

Offline Schwindlig

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Re: Thread Derailing, Persistent Negativity and Agenda Driven Spin
« Reply #53 on: January 19, 2013, 08:51:12 pm »
I know Benitle, I just don't want to stop lurking, so thought it best to reinforce the point on the ridiculously low odds that it will register with an offender or two.

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Re: Thread Derailing, Persistent Negativity and Agenda Driven Spin
« Reply #54 on: January 19, 2013, 08:52:01 pm »
Good thread lads unfortunately,Rawk is bipolar.On a day like today,when we win its fine,but when the result goes the other way then,as much as people plead for reason,logic or balanced posts,the same people can't help themselves.

« Last Edit: January 19, 2013, 08:53:39 pm by timmyonions »
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Offline Floydy

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Re: Thread Derailing, Persistent Negativity and Agenda Driven Spin
« Reply #55 on: January 19, 2013, 08:53:34 pm »
Good thread lads unfortunately,Rawk is bipolar.On a day like today,when we win its dine,but when the result goes the other way then,as much as people plead for reason,logic or balanced posts,the same people can't help themselves.


fair comment, there will always be a whine and moan, thats fair enough, but some perspective at times is long overdue.
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Offline JerseyKloppite

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Re: Thread Derailing, Persistent Negativity and Agenda Driven Spin
« Reply #56 on: January 19, 2013, 09:03:12 pm »
In the Parry/Moores days I remember the odd grumble about transfer activity.

Under H&G the intensity was rightly increased to a full on campaign to get them out.

People don't seem to have calmed down FSG bought us. I agree that an increased layer of vigilance is wise, as we have been burned once and no-one wants to go through that again. But some of the criticism is wholly excessive, and ridiculous really.


Offline Red Genius

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Re: Thread Derailing, Persistent Negativity and Agenda Driven Spin
« Reply #57 on: January 19, 2013, 09:11:27 pm »
PaulG you make a very good point, we got used to fighting under H&G and for some its hard to stop doing so maybe.

Don't believe it's that mate, i believe that since then as a club our success on the pitch has clearly dropped... and that's the fundamental reason for the bickering.

What the H&G scenario gave us was a vent for those frustrations, we don't have that root cause at the moment, but the very same frustration exists with performance.

What people just need to understand is there isn't any one specific thing that's wrong, it's not the manager, not the owners, not a player or two... we're simply in the process of developing a winning team again, it takes time. Doesn't happen over night, people just need to hold their horses and take the inconsistent results for what they are, we've not played bad all season really other than the very exception of a game or two... thats progress in itself.
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Offline BCCC

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Re: Thread Derailing, Persistent Negativity and Agenda Driven Spin
« Reply #58 on: January 19, 2013, 09:13:02 pm »
I'm not one members who posts epic pieces as I find it difficult to both assemble what I want to say and type it in. Every now and then I'll go to the trouble of throwing a few paragraphs together which I find quite a big effort. To then see it shot down in flames without a clear argument is off putting, not having a different opinion which is what it's all about but just dissing off without ever expressing a clear opinion or counter argument.

There's too many negative agendas, I can handle letting off steam and disappointment after a bad result but the sniping and derogatory comments directed at the players and club don't sit well with a life long Liverpool fan. I've read people who come on here and type that they are embarrassed to be a Liverpool supporter which in all seriousness I find fuckin offensive. If you are embarrassed then you need to fuck off and do something else with your life.

When something is a part of your life from as far back as you can remember, through times when you've been happy, sad, been through personal tragedy and seen your kids be born and grow up, it's not just a hobby or pastime, it's a way of life.
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Offline Get

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Re: Thread Derailing, Persistent Negativity and Agenda Driven Spin
« Reply #59 on: January 19, 2013, 09:17:30 pm »
Really Good stuff this, I support this 100%.
Quote from: Fordy on July 20, 2012, 01:24:46 PM
Anything more that 6m for Joe Allen and we have been ripped off.

Loads of Joe allens out there.

I would like to see him stay at Swansea myself and see if he can have another decent season. He is a championship player - players like a championship player.

Offline RooiBefok

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Re: Thread Derailing, Persistent Negativity and Agenda Driven Spin
« Reply #60 on: January 19, 2013, 09:18:38 pm »
As I always point out to my mates, RAWK actually stands for Repetitive Anal Winging Killjoys

Name and Shame them is what I suggest.

Next to their User Name insert the word (Crank)

Given that the meaning of "Crank" is a pejorative term used for a person who unshakably holds a belief that most of his or her contemporaries consider to be false. A "cranky" belief is so wildly at variance with commonly accepted belief as to be ludicrous. Cranks characteristically dismiss all evidence or arguments which contradict their own unconventional beliefs, making rational debate an often futile task.

Universal characteristics of cranks include:

1.  Cranks overestimate their own knowledge and ability, and underestimate that of acknowledged experts.
2.  Cranks insist that their alleged discoveries are urgently important.
3.  Cranks rarely, if ever, acknowledge any error, no matter how trivial.
4.  Cranks love to talk about their own beliefs, often in inappropriate social situations, but they tend to be bad listeners, and often appear to be uninterested in anyone else's experience or opinions.

Some cranks exhibit a lack of academic achievement, in which case they typically assert that academic training in the subject of their crank belief is not only unnecessary for discovering "the truth", but actively harmful because they believe it "poisons" the minds by teaching falsehoods. Others greatly exaggerate their personal achievements, and may insist that some alleged achievement in some entirely unrelated area of human endeavor implies that their cranky opinion should be taken seriously.

Only once they “change their ways” will (Crank) be removed from their User Name.
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Offline Get

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Re: Thread Derailing, Persistent Negativity and Agenda Driven Spin
« Reply #61 on: January 19, 2013, 09:23:14 pm »
As I always point out to my mates, RAWK actually stands for Repetitive Anal Winging Killjoys

Name and Shame them is what I suggest.

Next to their User Name insert the word (Crank)

Given that the meaning of "Crank" is a pejorative term used for a person who unshakably holds a belief that most of his or her contemporaries consider to be false. A "cranky" belief is so wildly at variance with commonly accepted belief as to be ludicrous. Cranks characteristically dismiss all evidence or arguments which contradict their own unconventional beliefs, making rational debate an often futile task.

Universal characteristics of cranks include:

1.  Cranks overestimate their own knowledge and ability, and underestimate that of acknowledged experts.
2.  Cranks insist that their alleged discoveries are urgently important.
3.  Cranks rarely, if ever, acknowledge any error, no matter how trivial.
4.  Cranks love to talk about their own beliefs, often in inappropriate social situations, but they tend to be bad listeners, and often appear to be uninterested in anyone else's experience or opinions.

Some cranks exhibit a lack of academic achievement, in which case they typically assert that academic training in the subject of their crank belief is not only unnecessary for discovering "the truth", but actively harmful because they believe it "poisons" the minds by teaching falsehoods. Others greatly exaggerate their personal achievements, and may insist that some alleged achievement in some entirely unrelated area of human endeavor implies that their cranky opinion should be taken seriously.

Only once they “change their ways” will (Crank) be removed from their User Name.

Or maybe just simply put them on mute instead of Creating some witch hunting methods. 
Quote from: Fordy on July 20, 2012, 01:24:46 PM
Anything more that 6m for Joe Allen and we have been ripped off.

Loads of Joe allens out there.

I would like to see him stay at Swansea myself and see if he can have another decent season. He is a championship player - players like a championship player.

Offline Veinticinco de Mayo

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Re: Thread Derailing, Persistent Negativity and Agenda Driven Spin
« Reply #62 on: January 19, 2013, 09:29:55 pm »
The last time something like this happened - July 2010 - when RAWK decided that it wasn't the done thing to post about H+G in all the topics and actually have a topic here people could wank about the pulling-the-wool-over-the-eyes signing of Joe Cole, I think I got banned.

This is needed this time. The discussion on here is so fucking circular lately.

A very selective view of history that probably says more about you especially given that one of the key people that decision affected is now Editor of this site.

The similarities are there though. The bottom line is that derailing every thread ruins the forum and does not help your case.
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Re: Thread Derailing, Persistent Negativity and Agenda Driven Spin
« Reply #63 on: January 19, 2013, 09:32:35 pm »
I like RAWK the way it is to be honest. I think the solution is to have different threads with different moderation standards. A great example of this is are the roundtable threads and the post match discussion threads. They are about the same topic but with different angles. Maybe RAWK staff should consider this on a broader number of issues.
I think that RAWK should be more lenient on certain topics like the Suarez diving confession for instance, its not like there was a rich discussion going on that got hijacked by it.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2013, 09:36:52 pm by alvaro »

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Re: Thread Derailing, Persistent Negativity and Agenda Driven Spin
« Reply #64 on: January 19, 2013, 09:42:45 pm »
I know as Liverpool fans we've been through a bit of a emotional rollercoaster, but I can't believe some of the doom and gloom in here sometimes and a lot of the times its from the same crowd as mentioned.

I'd like to think that if I ever get that negative about football then I would just give it up, because what's the point if you can't come away from a decent win feeling happy ,and some as we all know moan about the most ridiculous points when most of us are just celebrating the win

To me it seems like its not even about football with some but some sort of vendetta against their target and they wont stray from attacking them no matter what they do , the slagging off of Carra in the pre-match thread by one poster just because he had the nerve to start a match, and I find myself that its ruining the build up to the game or celebration of a win as you find yourself reacting to those people

Let's hope they read this thread and take a look at themselves and hopefully realise it and stop because this place would be a hell of a lot happier if they did and thank you mods for realising this and trying to put a stop to it

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Re: Thread Derailing, Persistent Negativity and Agenda Driven Spin
« Reply #65 on: January 19, 2013, 09:58:21 pm »
The transfer forum is particularly bad <snip> and dull.

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Re: Thread Derailing, Persistent Negativity and Agenda Driven Spin
« Reply #66 on: January 19, 2013, 10:27:20 pm »
However the middle line is they have got some things right and some things totally wrong and without going into specifics still repeating these errors, now the problem as I see it , is you make a comment like they are like a curates egg and you then get the extreme supporters not believing they have made any mistakes jumping in to defend what didnt need defending which then would make me for example moRe entrenched because everything is not so rosy.
 The same can be said for the ultra negative ones who then join the affray and the rhetoric moves up a level in my opinion, to the point where the other day some one listed me along with these for want of a name ultra.

So for the record I am not anti any owners I just would like this club to be run more astutely than it has been in the recent past.
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Offline Hinesy

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Re: Thread Derailing, Persistent Negativity and Agenda Driven Spin
« Reply #67 on: January 19, 2013, 10:35:16 pm »
However the middle line is they have got some things right and some things totally wrong and without going into specifics still repeating these errors, now the problem as I see it , is you make a comment like they are like a curates egg and you then get the extreme supporters not believing they have made any mistakes jumping in to defend what didnt need defending which then would make me for example moRe entrenched because everything is not so rosy.
 The same can be said for the ultra negative ones who then join the affray and the rhetoric moves up a level in my opinion, to the point where the other day some one listed me along with these for want of a name ultra.

So for the record I am not anti any owners I just would like this club to be run more astutely than it has been in the recent past.

I think what you're trying to do, without commas, is express your opinion on the owners. This isn't the thread for that, in fact its a thread stating quite clearly that every other thread on the site doesn't need to be filled with members' opinions on the owners. Which is just what's happened here ;)

Now I know why you're writing this, its to justify your actions and beliefs. There's nothing wrong in holding your opinion. We're just saying keep it to the right thread and those who persist in posting it in every other thread will have action taken on them..
Yep.

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Re: Thread Derailing, Persistent Negativity and Agenda Driven Spin
« Reply #68 on: January 19, 2013, 10:37:03 pm »
You're all a bunch of boring c*nts.....And I include myself entirely in that, stop taking yourself/ourselves so fucking seriously, you really don't matter. Neither do I!

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Offline Veinticinco de Mayo

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Thread Derailing, Persistent Negativity and Agenda Driven Spin
« Reply #69 on: January 19, 2013, 10:39:29 pm »
The point Geoff is not to bring the owners and your feelings about them into every thread.

And BCCC always thought you were a good poster mate so do it more often. And I think your post in this thread sums up nicely how many of us mods were feeling.
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Re: Thread Derailing, Persistent Negativity and Agenda Driven Spin
« Reply #70 on: January 19, 2013, 10:42:50 pm »
You're all a bunch of boring c*nts.....And I include myself entirely in that, stop taking yourself/ourselves so fucking seriously, you really don't matter. Neither do I!

Roy, VD and that Barny bloke - For me, you are life's vaginal juice, to life's piss flap. Keep on lubricating.....


I love you all.... well.... some of you

but not me? glum.
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Re: Thread Derailing, Persistent Negativity and Agenda Driven Spin
« Reply #71 on: January 19, 2013, 10:44:43 pm »
A very selective view of history that probably says more about you especially given that one of the key people that decision affected is now Editor of this site.

The similarities are there though. The bottom line is that derailing every thread ruins the forum and does not help your case.

Don't think that's really fair, I've not really been polluting anything on this site regarding these owners. And I do appreciate the job you lot volunteer to do.

This is needed though. People have never got out of the H+G protest mode. The fanbase is split in to so many factions its absolutely ridiculous.
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Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: Thread Derailing, Persistent Negativity and Agenda Driven Spin
« Reply #72 on: January 19, 2013, 10:49:15 pm »
I think what you're trying to do, without commas, is express your opinion on the owners. This isn't the thread for that, in fact its a thread stating quite clearly that every other thread on the site doesn't need to be filled with members' opinions on the owners. Which is just what's happened here ;)

Now I know why you're writing this, its to justify your actions and beliefs. There's nothing wrong in holding your opinion. We're just saying keep it to the right thread and those who persist in posting it in every other thread will have action taken on them..

Commas I am on an iPad with old eyes, and no I wasn't trying to express anything like that, I was trying to point out that there is a middle ground that gets submerged in amongst the extreme views on both sides of this discussion.
Kevin I agree about this should be in one thread alone and not in all the others. Maybe we need a specific thread in opinions and not on the main board at all?
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Who voted in this lying corrupt bastard anyway

Offline CHOPPER

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Re: Thread Derailing, Persistent Negativity and Agenda Driven Spin
« Reply #73 on: January 19, 2013, 10:51:43 pm »
but not me? glum.
As c*nts go, you're my favorite.

Though, and considering the 32,000 c*nts we have in here, thats something cuntishmungelly fabulous.... I think

@ Veinticinco de Mayo The way you talk to other users on this forum is something you should be ashamed of as someone who is suppose to be representing the site.
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Offline The 1989 Brit Awards

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Re: Thread Derailing, Persistent Negativity and Agenda Driven Spin
« Reply #74 on: January 19, 2013, 10:56:23 pm »
Open for general discussion and accusations of soup nazism ;)

NO SOUP FOR YOU!  :no


  :P

Offline ryatnalkar

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Re: Thread Derailing, Persistent Negativity and Agenda Driven Spin
« Reply #75 on: January 19, 2013, 11:05:56 pm »
May I suggest these people who get banned for a day or two or longer have these added to their profile? Like belle***ry level 1 for 1 mute, 2 for 2 mutes etc. you know some might think about it and stay away from posting shite. Just an opinion. Excellent move by the moderators btw. One thing that I see coming on is, it's okay when the mods do it, it's shit when I do it complaints. 

Offline Hinesy

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Re: Thread Derailing, Persistent Negativity and Agenda Driven Spin
« Reply #76 on: January 19, 2013, 11:12:42 pm »
May I suggest these people who get banned for a day or two or longer have these added to their profile? Like belle***ry level 1 for 1 mute, 2 for 2 mutes etc. you know some might think about it and stay away from posting shite. Just an opinion. Excellent move by the moderators btw. One thing that I see coming on is, it's okay when the mods do it, it's shit when I do it complaints. 


nah, we're not witch hunters and branders here. People get muted/warned/minibans and they return refreshed and if you serve the time, your past is forgotten. For a bit.
Yep.

Offline TSC

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Re: Thread Derailing, Persistent Negativity and Agenda Driven Spin
« Reply #77 on: January 19, 2013, 11:13:53 pm »
May I suggest these people who get banned for a day or two or longer have these added to their profile? Like belle***ry level 1 for 1 mute, 2 for 2 mutes etc. you know some might think about it and stay away from posting shite. Just an opinion. Excellent move by the moderators btw. One thing that I see coming on is, it's okay when the mods do it, it's shit when I do it complaints. 

You can suggest that but it'd be sad if it came to fruition.   

Offline soxfan

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Re: Thread Derailing, Persistent Negativity and Agenda Driven Spin
« Reply #78 on: January 19, 2013, 11:14:08 pm »
One suggestion I'd make to anyone on either side of the usual arguments is to use the Ignore List feature. I look at RAWK from two different computers -- one logs me in automatically and thus implements my Ignore List while the other doesn't. On the latter computer if I don't go through the bother of logging in, I notice my blood pressure skyrockets because I am subjected to a blizzard of shit posts from the usually Ignored.  ;)  One of those times I got so upset I logged in and went into all-out piranha mode on someone  :rant  which got me an official warning.   So start using an Ignore List -- your health will improve.   :D

And to follow up on a point made earlier...if the same persistent negativity is allowed to continue, I do believe it drives away other posters from posting or even visiting RAWK. If the mods truly do clamp down on it, I think you'll see some new intelligent voices appear, as long as they feel their comments will be respected.

Last thought -- we all come from different places and different ages, but we're all Reds. In the end we all want the same thing. Let's remember that.  :wave 

 

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Offline BEAST

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Re: Thread Derailing, Persistent Negativity and Agenda Driven Spin
« Reply #79 on: January 19, 2013, 11:15:08 pm »
thanks for doing this, I think it's important.

I'm all for letting people criticize and even vent from time to time, but there absolutely are threads that are being astroturfed by certain posters who are 24/7 in bitch mode and it gets fng annoying.