Author Topic: A Song of Ice and Fire general thread: BOOK AND SHOW spoilers galore  (Read 233865 times)

Offline Studog

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Pretty sure I read that although Vargo Hoat is out they'll be replacing him with another mercenary leader so I suppose will see them.

I thought they'd cast him under another name and he's going to be one of Bolton's bannermen, probably the guy who captured him in the previous episode? He looked Hoat-ish? The lisp has to remain though, makes him who he is!

They may get rid of the mummers as a seperate entity, but I imagine Qyburn will hook up with them if they are Bolton's bannermen? They kind of have to cut jaime's hand off, otherwise, that's a ridiculously large change to the storyline?

Offline Redcap

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Thought it was a rather good episode. There were always going to be some deviations in character, but I don't think most of them have jarred too badly. Jojen and Meera are each a little different than my expectations- a lot older to start with, but I didn't mind too much. They've done the same with Missendei though, who in my impression was in her tweens in the books, and I think that's changed the complexion of her character a fair bit. No matter.

I'm generally a pretty strong critic of Tulisa, but I think the scene with Cat in this episode was fairly critical to Cat's development. That the scene involved Tulisa is I think, no more than incidental- it wouldn't have made sense with Robb or anyone else traveling with Robb. And people need to give Cat a little more love anyway. I liked it very much.

Jaime and Brienne was relatively entertaining. I don't see any problems with their scenes at all really- excepting of course the entire very colourful organisation written out, but that's another story. The actress is doing such a good job of conveying a dour she-giant though, that I'm a little concerned some of the sensitivities of her characters are being missed. She seems to be playing this character a tad too simply- she has loads of room for development from the books and I hope this isn't going to be another great opportunity missed.

Speaking of missed opportunities- I really hope they manage to keep Hoat in one way or another. The leprosy.. the being fed to a bear.. the lisp. Would be a damn shame to lose him.

Particularly because I think they're affording way more time than is necessary to Shae this season. Yes I understand that she's a foil to Tyrion and Sansa, but that scene this episode with her and Tyrion is making me a little worried that they'll make her go to Tywin because Tyrion somehow betrayed her with Sansa.. which would be totally missing the point.

Arya's scenes I thought was quite good. I don't even remember what Thoros of Myr was like in the books, but (or so) I quite enjoyed him in this episode. I hope he'll still be a red priest though. Would be disappointing and inconvenient in terms of plot if he isn't.

Finally, I'm not liking Sam in this. His actor is fine but they're showing only his weakness and almost none of his strengths.

Offline Redcap

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Oh here's the replacement for Vargo Hoat, according to the GoT wiki:

http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Locke

Offline Rusty Oysterburger

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« Reply #163 on: April 10, 2013, 09:47:56 am »
I was going to say getting Noah Taylor in to play a random Bolton bannerman would've been weird. Maybe they'll make him a bit of a weirdo to make up for it, I guess he'll be relieving Jaime of his hand as well.

It is a shame to lose the Mummers as they're a cool idea and would've added a bit of colour, but in terms of streamlining the story for TV they'd be one of the first to be cut. They don't really make much of a difference to the plot, nothing that can't be easily replaced with Bolton's men anyway. And we had another band of outlaws/mercenaries introduced this week, another one would've been a bit much.

I think Qyburn will worm his way in with Bolton and he'll send him to King's Landing with Jamie?
« Last Edit: April 10, 2013, 09:50:35 am by Rusty Oysterburger »
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Offline Redcap

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To be honest I would have thought that Qyburn would be as good a candidate as any to write out of the show. You can easily have a non-descript character performing everything he does in the books (so far). He's actually barely spoken more than a few words up to the end of ADwD. It might eat up some screen minutes getting him settled into life at King's Landing too

Although I suppose a wee bit of context to the whole necromancy business with Robert Strong wouldn't hurt, when that does roll around years from now.

Offline Rusty Oysterburger

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« Reply #165 on: April 10, 2013, 11:36:47 am »
To be honest I would have thought that Qyburn would be as good a candidate as any to write out of the show. You can easily have a non-descript character performing everything he does in the books (so far). He's actually barely spoken more than a few words up to the end of ADwD. It might eat up some screen minutes getting him settled into life at King's Landing too

Although I suppose a wee bit of context to the whole necromancy business with Robert Strong wouldn't hurt, when that does roll around years from now.

Well, he basically is a nondescript character at the mo. Also I think its easier to leave in one minor character rather than a whole band of evil bastards.
They will need a maester to treat Jaime's wounds while he's at Harrenhall and when they're traveling, he could hint at his darker skills while he's doing that.

Is Pycelle in the dungeons by the time they get to King's Landing? Qyburn could slot straight into his role if so.
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Offline Red Viper

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One thing I was thinking before is what the hell are they going to do with Stannis this season? He doesn't get to the wall till about halfway through Book Two of ASOS. Surely they can't have him just stewing on Dragonstone for an entire season?

Offline Studog

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One thing I was thinking before is what the hell are they going to do with Stannis this season? He doesn't get to the wall till about halfway through Book Two of ASOS. Surely they can't have him just stewing on Dragonstone for an entire season?

They might move around some of the Davos stuff? Have his manderlay stuff actually happen with Stannis?

Then agian, we could see the wildlings hit the wall this series and that's when he comes

Offline Rusty Oysterburger

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« Reply #168 on: April 10, 2013, 03:41:13 pm »
They could just invent a few more scenes with him, Davos and Melisandre, I wouldn't complain about that.
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Offline Red Viper

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They could just invent a few more scenes with him, Davos and Melisandre, I wouldn't complain about that.

That still wouldn't be much progressio though.

Not that I'm overly bothered, I like Stannis but Davos' chapters were a bit boring in ASOS, especially in the context of all the other stuff that was happening in that book.

Offline longball

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One thing I was thinking before is what the hell are they going to do with Stannis this season? He doesn't get to the wall till about halfway through Book Two of ASOS. Surely they can't have him just stewing on Dragonstone for an entire season?

There's loads they can do with the Mel/Davos stuff that would flesh out the universe...R'Hllor, magic, Is she good or evil and so on.  Those characters/actors are all great together so just having them stand around talking is fine by me, it's all character development too.

We just won't see a lot of them maybe, as there's so much going on elsewhere.

Was just thinking that they might get rid of the Manderley/Davos arc altogether? Have Osha and Rickon stay with Bran, and Davos go to the Wall with Stannis? Would make sense for the show but we don't know what happens with Rickon and Davos in the books and who knows what problems that could lead to?
« Last Edit: April 10, 2013, 05:26:19 pm by longball »

Offline Studog

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There's loads they can do with the Mel/Davos stuff that would flesh out the universe...R'Hllor, magic, Is she good or evil and so on.  Those characters/actors are all great together so just having them stand around talking is fine by me, it's all character development too.

We just won't see a lot of them maybe, as there's so much going on elsewhere.

Was just thinking that they might get rid of the Manderley/Davos arc altogether? Have Osha and Rickon stay with Bran, and Davos go to the Wall with Stannis? Would make sense for the show but we don't know what happens with Rickon and Davos in the books and who knows what problems that could lead to?

I always thought the Manderlay arc was quite key as he's probably the biggest name in the north who goes to Stannis, there's also the bit with the Frey's. I don't think it's something you can get rid of, unlike the Osha/Rickon stuff, which could easily get thrown out. Then again, we want to see the unicorns!  ::)

Offline longball

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I always thought the Manderlay arc was quite key as he's probably the biggest name in the north who goes to Stannis, there's also the bit with the Frey's. I don't think it's something you can get rid of, unlike the Osha/Rickon stuff, which could easily get thrown out. Then again, we want to see the unicorns!  ::)

I didn't mean getting rid of Manderley completely, could just not bother with the Davos/Rickon part to his story.

Are they definitely going to have Jaime lose the hand? I'm a bit divided on that, I want him to lose it but any time I've seen that done it looks stupid. Merle in TWD a recent example.

Offline Malaysian Kopite

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I didn't mean getting rid of Manderley completely, could just not bother with the Davos/Rickon part to his story.

Are they definitely going to have Jaime lose the hand? I'm a bit divided on that, I want him to lose it but any time I've seen that done it looks stupid. Merle in TWD a recent example.
Trailer seemed to show it.
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Offline Rusty Oysterburger

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« Reply #174 on: April 10, 2013, 08:14:06 pm »
I didn't mean getting rid of Manderley completely, could just not bother with the Davos/Rickon part to his story.

Are they definitely going to have Jaime lose the hand? I'm a bit divided on that, I want him to lose it but any time I've seen that done it looks stupid. Merle in TWD a recent example.

Thought it looked pretty good to me? Herschel's leg removal was also flawless.

That would be a huge change to get rid of that, possibly the most important thing that happens to him in terms of his character arc.
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Offline Studog

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I didn't mean getting rid of Manderley completely, could just not bother with the Davos/Rickon part to his story.

Are they definitely going to have Jaime lose the hand? I'm a bit divided on that, I want him to lose it but any time I've seen that done it looks stupid. Merle in TWD a recent example.

I'd be surprised if they didn't remove the hand, it's what makes him into a more likeable character, when he kind of crashes down to Earth in my opinion

Offline Mashy-rawr!nooo

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Just tohught I'd post this. I laughed so hard and it's totally true. We've read the books so don't try and incorporate spoilers with us.
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Offline ShatnersBassoon

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Sounds like they are going to merge gendry and edric for the show. Melisandre goes to see him in a later episode. Might create a few difficulties later on..... I don't remember if he ever found out he was Robert's bastard in the books?

Offline Malaysian Kopite

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He hasn't found out yet while Edric is well aware of it
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Offline Rusty Oysterburger

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« Reply #179 on: April 12, 2013, 09:02:31 pm »
If Eldric's gone there will be even less for Davos/Stannis to do
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Offline Redcap

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Pretty hard to combine Edric and Gendry really. In fact I'm not sure we'll actually see Edric again in the books, because he seems to have already served his purpose (developing Stannis and Mel) and is now far, far away. There is no way Gendry can somehow be whisked away to Dragonstone to be the subject of sacrifice and then whisked back to where he is. Would be quite silly.

On another note, I'm highly amused that a total of 4 threads now exist for the one story.

Offline Malaysian Kopite

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Pretty hard to combine Edric and Gendry really. In fact I'm not sure we'll actually see Edric again in the books, because he seems to have already served his purpose (developing Stannis and Mel) and is now far, far away. There is no way Gendry can somehow be whisked away to Dragonstone to be the subject of sacrifice and then whisked back to where he is. Would be quite silly.

On another note, I'm highly amused that a total of 4 threads now exist for the one story.
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Offline Niru Red4ever

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The Gendry thing made me thinking. In the books Gendry kinds of fades out and I don't remember where he pops up in the latter ones. My point is he has been kept as some irrelevant character.

keeping him in focus in the series seems to indicate that Martin has plans for him in the future.
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Offline Rusty Oysterburger

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« Reply #183 on: April 15, 2013, 11:08:00 pm »
Really like what they're doing with Theon and Ramsay, they're building it up so much its going to completely ruin Theon.

"You little bastard" :D


The Blackfish was spot on casting wise, cool fish scale armour too.

The hand scene was everything I imagined it to be, even made up for Vargo being dropped. It was still shocking and I knew exactly what was going to happen. Liked the way they shot it, very matter of fact.

Tyrion reference to the whore's 'Meerenese Knot' is what GRRM called his major problem of uniting all the storylines when he was writing ADWD
« Last Edit: April 15, 2013, 11:42:55 pm by Rusty Oysterburger »
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Offline Redcap

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I don't think any book readers should have cause to complain about that episode. Brilliantly done.

* Loved the introduction to Edmure and the Blackfish (could be a Tully band name). Both well cast and really liked that they brought the bungled ambush attempt in. Brynden was amazing.

* Loved Theon and Ramsay. I had my doubts about what he was going to do this season but they've really made it work so far. I forgot about the episode about him running away. Very good stuff. I wonder if they'll leave in some of the more grisly details though.

* Great hand scene. They did a great job with Jaime in that scene as well- giving the audience some material to sympathize with him before springing the surprise on non readers

* Craster's keep was rather well done as well. No cause to complain and basically all the exposition managed to be kept in there

Really, all just pretty brilliant. One of the best episodes of the series so far. The Bear and the Maiden Fair was quite good I thought, although like others I do question the wisdom of juxtaposing it with the hand scene. Bit bizarre really.

Offline Lastrador

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Really tiny small nitpick, wasn't the Blackfish a little too mean to Edmure on that funeral scene? I remember the Blackfish being more understanding and gentle on the books to him. Although this was changed probably to make him more of a bad-ass (I hate that term) from the start, so no much to complain really.

A little confused to where Theon's story going, I know that guy is Ramsay and that he will start torturing him eventually, but who were the people he killed? Why did he?

Offline Rusty Oysterburger

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« Reply #186 on: April 16, 2013, 01:54:03 am »
The guys Ramsay killed are his own/Roose's men, hence one of them calling him a bastard. They knew him.

He's doing it because he's mad evil bastard. I'm assuming its all a massive trick on Theon to break his spirit.
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Offline Lastrador

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The guys Ramsay killed are his own/Roose's men, hence one of them calling him a bastard. They knew him.

He's doing it because he's mad evil bastard. I'm assuming its all a massive trick on Theon to break his spirit.
That's the thing; it just seems a little too complicated isn't it? Killing 5 of his own men just to break Theon spirit seems like going way too far, even for Ramsay standards, also he was whipping the floor under-covered on the last episode and only approached Theon when they were all gone, while he was wearing a bag on his head, that seems a little too weird if it was all just an act for him.

I think there might be a little more to it that him being a mad evil bastard, maybe some political angle but I don't have a clue.

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« Reply #188 on: April 16, 2013, 02:21:37 am »
That's the thing; it just seems a little too complicated isn't it? Killing 5 of his own men just to break Theon spirit seems like going way too far, even for Ramsay standards, also he was whipping the floor under-covered on the last episode and only approached Theon when they were all gone, while he was wearing a bag on his head, that seems a little too weird if it was all just an act for him.

I think there might be a little more to it that him being a mad evil bastard, maybe some political angle but I don't have a clue.

You're probably right. I just like the dastardly evil scheme idea.
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You're probably right. I just like the dastardly evil scheme idea.
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Offline Niru Red4ever

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Really tiny small nitpick, wasn't the Blackfish a little too mean to Edmure on that funeral scene? I remember the Blackfish being more understanding and gentle on the books to him. Although this was changed probably to make him more of a bad-ass (I hate that term) from the start, so no much to complain really.

I was initially peeved that Blackfish was left out (as he is one of my favourite characters); and when they introduced him I thought at least we get to see how cool he is. But the whole arrogance threw me off. I mean shooting and turning even before it hits in a manner 'this is how you do it, lad'. Blackfish didn't do it to show off; but because Holster Tully's boat was almost out of range.

Also Edmure comes off as a bit of a joke - not sure its from this episode or from my impression from his Brutus days.

A great episode otherwise. There will be some cracking stuff in a few weeks - Red wedding, Bear fight and the assult on the wall (is that being fast tracked?).

John can become the viewer's favourite if he can pull of the defense of the wall well (I mean acting wise).
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Offline Redcap

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The Battle of the Wall I imagine will take more than 1 episode- that or it'll take a whole episode by itself. So I doubt we'll see it this season. From memory it goes for quite a while.

We already have the bear fight, dracarys, Red Wedding, the Hound's fight with Beric Dondarrion and the mutiny at Craster's Keep and I'm guessing quite possibly Lady Stoneheart to look forward to (although that would probably also make a pretty great Season 4 opener.

I'm a wee bit peeved that the wolves haven't featured so much. In the books they were almost an elemental presence. I'm not quite sure whether anyone will miss Greywind quite as much when he cops it in this (unless, rightly, he goes down in a blaze of spectacular glory). It would also be quite cool to get a couple of scenes of Nymeria and her wolves tearing into a few soldiers here and there.

Offline Rusty Oysterburger

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« Reply #192 on: April 16, 2013, 10:15:41 am »
Doesn't Lady Stoneheart first appear at the very end of book 3, so it would be the end of next season if they are sticking to it rigidly?

I think they'll bump it up to the middle of next season, the first half of which will be dominated by the Battle of the Wall and the other wedding. The second half could be Tyrion's escape, Stoneheart and bits of AFFC and ADWD. Struggling to think of a great ending to that season.
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Offline Studog

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Doesn't Lady Stoneheart first appear at the very end of book 3, so it would be the end of next season if they are sticking to it rigidly?

I think they'll bump it up to the middle of next season, the first half of which will be dominated by the Battle of the Wall and the other wedding. The second half could be Tyrion's escape, Stoneheart and bits of AFFC and ADWD. Struggling to think of a great ending to that season.

Is the red wedding at the end of book 3 part 1 or mid way through book 3 part 2?

I can't remember if stone heart is at the end of book 3 or start of 4. It'd be a nice start to a season though, to find the body in the river

Offline Rusty Oysterburger

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« Reply #194 on: April 16, 2013, 10:38:08 am »
Is the red wedding at the end of book 3 part 1 or mid way through book 3 part 2?

I can't remember if stone heart is at the end of book 3 or start of 4. It'd be a nice start to a season though, to find the body in the river

I read the Kindle version of book 3 that hadn't been split in half so I've no idea where it ended.

I'm almost certain Stoneheart is revealed in the epilogue of book 3, when she and the Brotherhood hang a Frey?
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Offline Studog

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I read the Kindle version of book 3 that hadn't been split in half so I've no idea where it ended.

I'm almost certain Stoneheart is revealed in the epilogue of book 3, when she and the Brotherhood hang a Frey?

The wedding happens about half way through book 3 from what I remember and you don't actually find out about stoneheart until book 4, but if they end this series on the wedding, they could link it in that way. After all she must be resurrected by Dondarrion not that long after the wedding? A few days or so?

I can't remember when we first see her in the book, is it when Pod and Brienne are captured by them?

Offline Redcap

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The wedding happens about half way through book 3 from what I remember and you don't actually find out about stoneheart until book 4, but if they end this series on the wedding, they could link it in that way. After all she must be resurrected by Dondarrion not that long after the wedding? A few days or so?

I can't remember when we first see her in the book, is it when Pod and Brienne are captured by them?

That's more or less how I see it.

We probably won't see Lady Stoneheart per se, but if Nymeria hasn't been Vargo Hoated from the story, we might see her drag Cat's corpse to shore in one of the last scenes of the season finale or the season opener.

Offline lazzathered

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This is the thread I'm allowed to post spoilers in, right?  :lickin I don't want to piss mods off but at the same time I actually want to be able to DISCUSS everything

Offline jooneyisdagod

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This is the thread I'm allowed to post spoilers in, right?  :lickin I don't want to piss mods off but at the same time I actually want to be able to DISCUSS everything

Feel free to post whatever you want.  Although this the comparison thread so you have to stick to what has happened in the show if we are going to adhere to the rules strictly :P
Quote from: Dion Fanning

The chants for Kenny Dalglish that were heard again on Wednesday do not necessarily mean that the fans see him as the saviour. This is not Newcastle, longing for the return of Kevin Keegan. Simply, Dalglish represents everything Hodgson is not and, in fairness, everything Hodgson could or would not hope to be.

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Thank you :)

I have to say, I loved the Blackfish's portrayal. He basically looked exactly how I imagined him. What have I seen Edmure in before, he seems familiar?

The differences that stood out to me were Missandei being older (don't mind, Natalie Emmanuel is pleasant to look at) and obviously thaphires, but they didn't chicken out on the big moment this episode so I'm not going to complain about missing Hoat too much.

I don't really like Ser Barristan being revealed already but there really isn't any way to deal with it the book way when the audience will already recognise him. Strong Belwas... fun character but ultimately not necessary. I can see why he's been cut. I just hope they don't remove colourful characters and replace all their potential screen time with sexposition or just plain boobies. Or Shae. Or Talisa. Some plotlines deserve more time, I do feel we flit around too much and don't get any real depth.

Interesting that they're bigging Pod up, I wonder if that was just a bit of comic relief or if he's gonna be a proper Neville Longbottom by the end of things and mature to baddassdom.

The weddings should be fun, I cannot WAIT for everyone's reaction when it happens if they haven't read the books. Twitter meltdown