Author Topic: Is Football Really Broken?  (Read 5629 times)

Offline jillcwhomever

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Is Football Really Broken?
« on: February 12, 2020, 06:22:15 pm »
The Independent has gone really big with this "special report" on the future of football. Now we are obviously one of the clubs cast as being the baddie in this particular report, but I do think there are parts of it which have merit. There is no doubt that football is generally facing some really testing problems, not the least the threat of a breakaway league which is still on the horizon. If we want to avoid this situation how can we enable money to be more evenly spread, allowing other clubs to improve overall.

Can I please appeal to people to read this and not just take it as a report which is knocking us because we are top? There are some bits in this that I disagree with but its a reminder of how delicate the balance is between the bigger clubs and everyone else. Basically what are people's opinion on football in the here and now?

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/champions-league-superclubs-liverpool-man-utd-barcelona-real-madrid-a9330431.html
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Offline Macphisto80

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Re: Is Football Really Broken?
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2020, 06:42:46 pm »
Where were articles like this 15 years ago when the likes of Chelsea, and even Madrid, were buying leagues and other trophies?

Offline Something Worse

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Re: Is Football Really Broken?
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2020, 06:48:38 pm »
Where were articles like this 15 years ago when the likes of Chelsea, and even Madrid, were buying leagues and other trophies?

In the middle of the Mancs winning 2 PL titles every three years? What was uncompetitive about that?
Maybe the group, led by your leadership, will see these drafts as PR functions and brilliant use of humor

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Offline Macphisto80

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Re: Is Football Really Broken?
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2020, 07:25:12 pm »
In the middle of the Mancs winning 2 PL titles every three years? What was uncompetitive about that?
Chelsea set the precedent of dodgy rich oligarchs being allowed to come in and buy a club, spunk money all round them, break wage barriers, and generally just fuck the financial fair play rules out the window, and if you wanted to compete, you had to either be a very well run and rich super club (which United were at the time) or have a sugar daddy yourself. Let's also not forget that United themselves were breaking transfer fees left and right, and paying massive wages, so it was them and Chelsea, then City, that set the bar. No one was asking questions back then, so why now? It just so happens we have had two managers that have went against the grain when it came to upsetting that status quo. Rafa, and now Klopp. Both manager that managed to crack leagues against the odds.

Offline Something Worse

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Re: Is Football Really Broken?
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2020, 07:26:01 pm »
Chelsea set the precedent of dodgy rich oligarchs being allowed to come in and buy a club, spunk money all round them, break wage barriers, and generally just fuck the financial fair play rules out the window, and if you wanted to compete, you had to either be a very well run and rich super club (which United were at the time) or have a sugar daddy yourself. Let's also not forget that United themselves were breaking transfer fees left and right, and paying massive wages, so it was them and Chelsea, then City, that set the bar. No one was asking questions back then, so why now? It just so happens we have had two managers that have went against the grain when it came to upsetting that status quo. Rafa, and now Klopp. Both manager that managed to crack leagues against the odds.

Sorry I was sarcastically agreeing with you, my bad.
Maybe the group, led by your leadership, will see these drafts as PR functions and brilliant use of humor

Hey Claus, fuck off.

Offline Macphisto80

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Re: Is Football Really Broken?
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2020, 07:27:54 pm »
Sorry I was sarcastically agreeing with you, my bad.
I suspected as much, after having a bit of a think. Have to be on yer toes around here.

Offline markmywords

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Re: Is Football Really Broken?
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2020, 10:25:57 pm »
Where were articles like this 15 years ago when the likes of Chelsea, and even Madrid, were buying leagues and other trophies?

The 30yr trends this report looks into, evidently hadn't been as firmly established

Offline driftinwest

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Re: Is Football Really Broken?
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2020, 10:27:50 pm »
That was some read, it gets to the end paragraph before it mentions what football is to a community. The best teams will always be out ahead financially I thought the authors tone at times was that every team should have a chance or turn at winning the league, but how can you expect a team like ours who I think are at the top more on merit than being financially stronger than the others around us subsidise our rivals as the author seems to suggest . The rich oil barons and country backed clubs are here and will be up with the best till their owners get bored or broke, there's a point to be made but is it a bit late to be advocating everyone should be on an even footing? I've watched us play some tough games this season where we were well matched but came out on top because we never stopped fighting for the win. I don't think there's a huge gap in the premier league between the teams below us and if we weren't having the season we are would this article be even written.
 
If my assistant had not signalled a goal, I would have given a penalty and sent off goalkeeper Patr Cheh. he beeped me to signal the foul. The noise from the crowd  stopped me hearing it, I have been involved at places like Barcelona, Ibrox, Old Trafford, Arsenal, but I've never in my life been involved in such an atmosphere. IT WAS INCREDIBLE

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Re: Is Football Really Broken?
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2020, 10:30:42 pm »
#TaintedTitle

Offline Cu Chulainn

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Re: Is Football Really Broken?
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2020, 11:16:16 pm »
Professional football is becoming more and more unsavoury, with money ruling the game and taking it further and further away from the ordinary people, and fans being screwed over more and more every year. I think there'll be lots of fans (myself included) thinking very hard over the next few years about their relationship to the game - whether we actually love the top level game any more or are just kind of habitualised to following it. Personally, I love the 90 minutes, but there's so much nonsense that leaves a bad taste in the mouth surrounding it these days.

Offline jillcwhomever

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Re: Is Football Really Broken?
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2020, 11:22:35 pm »
That was some read, it gets to the end paragraph before it mentions what football is to a community. The best teams will always be out ahead financially I thought the authors tone at times was that every team should have a chance or turn at winning the league, but how can you expect a team like ours who I think are at the top more on merit than being financially stronger than the others around us subsidise our rivals as the author seems to suggest . The rich oil barons and country backed clubs are here and will be up with the best till their owners get bored or broke, there's a point to be made but is it a bit late to be advocating everyone should be on an even footing? I've watched us play some tough games this season where we were well matched but came out on top because we never stopped fighting for the win. I don't think there's a huge gap in the premier league between the teams below us and if we weren't having the season we are would this article be even written.
 

This report actually got me thinking back to the 70's and how different football was back then. That decade we have six different Champions, us, Everton, Arsenal, Leeds, Derby County and Nottingham Forest. I think Derby actually won it twice that decade, to our four, the rest all once. It would be unthinkable to go back to that now sadly and I do think the all too predictable nature of football is a situation that deserves consideration from everyone. I don't actually disagree with anything you have said up there, but I would never take anything for granted. It's great we are where we are obviously but whose to say where will be ten years from now? The Champions League has become the be all and end all, any team whose not in it, is struggling. That would include us, if we dropped out of it. There are no guarantees and I think its sometimes too easy to dismiss the grumblings of fans from smaller clubs. After all, we had our own problems with past owners and that journey back to where we are now, was not an easy one to undertake.

Strangely enough I really thought he was pretty shitty about Sheffield United almost dismissing them as a irrelevance. They are anything but, they are everything that the other United with all their riches are not. It's proof that if you have a good manager and the right structure inside the club, it is still possible to make progress in the Premier League. I would like to think they can continue to and at least buck the trend of the normal bigger clubs dominating. But I suspect that will prove an impossibility and that is why its worth reading this report and asking the question if there is anything we can do to help things along.
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Offline norecat

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Re: Is Football Really Broken?
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2020, 11:53:43 pm »
Since Premier League came into being the pool of teams winning the title over time has begun to narrow. Yes Blackburn and Leicester are exceptions but that’s in 28 years. Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea, and Man City. Gloriously this will be our year yippee! That’s 7 different sides in 28 years. Three of whom will have won it once. PSG dominate France. Bayern in Germany. Juventus in Italy. Real/Barcelona in Spain. Celtic in Scotland.The common denominator is money and lots of it.
We haven’t spent big like City or PSG but let’s not pretend we don’t have financial muscle greater than most clubs in England. Even Blackburn were bankrolled to the title back in 1995. The true miracle title in terms of money spent was Leicester in 2016.
I would say though that since 2010 and FSG we have been brilliantly run. The owners have in a sustainable fashion built the club to what it is today. Indeed we are a model for clubs around the world. United since 2013 are proof alone that money does not guarantee success. It’s how you spend it.
In a funny way the smaller clubs e.g. Leicester are cash rich to the point that the big boys have to offer a kings ransom for their players.
It seems inconceivable now that Everton, Villa, Derby or Forest will ever win the Premier League.
I think the money in the Premier League/Champions League has destroyed the cup competitions in England.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2020, 11:55:45 pm by norecat »

Offline Something Worse

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Re: Is Football Really Broken?
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2020, 01:02:04 am »
This report actually got me thinking back to the 70's and how different football was back then. That decade we have six different Champions, us, Everton, Arsenal, Leeds, Derby County and Nottingham Forest. I think Derby actually won it twice that decade, to our four, the rest all once. It would be unthinkable to go back to that now sadly and I do think the all too predictable nature of football is a situation that deserves consideration from everyone. I don't actually disagree with anything you have said up there, but I would never take anything for granted. It's great we are where we are obviously but whose to say where will be ten years from now? The Champions League has become the be all and end all, any team whose not in it, is struggling. That would include us, if we dropped out of it. There are no guarantees and I think its sometimes too easy to dismiss the grumblings of fans from smaller clubs. After all, we had our own problems with past owners and that journey back to where we are now, was not an easy one to undertake.

Strangely enough I really thought he was pretty shitty about Sheffield United almost dismissing them as a irrelevance. They are anything but, they are everything that the other United with all their riches are not. It's proof that if you have a good manager and the right structure inside the club, it is still possible to make progress in the Premier League. I would like to think they can continue to and at least buck the trend of the normal bigger clubs dominating. But I suspect that will prove an impossibility and that is why its worth reading this report and asking the question if there is anything we can do to help things along.

6 teams? In the last ten years we've had

City
Mancs
Leicester
Chelsea

And in a few weeks Liverpool.

So 5. Not that far apart really is it?
Maybe the group, led by your leadership, will see these drafts as PR functions and brilliant use of humor

Hey Claus, fuck off.

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Re: Is Football Really Broken?
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2020, 01:14:07 am »
Strangely enough I really thought he was pretty shitty about Sheffield United almost dismissing them as a irrelevance. They are anything but, they are everything that the other United with all their riches are not. It's proof that if you have a good manager and the right structure inside the club, it is still possible to make progress in the Premier League. I would like to think they can continue to and at least buck the trend of the normal bigger clubs dominating. But I suspect that will prove an impossibility and that is why its worth reading this report and asking the question if there is anything we can do to help things along.
sheffield United, leicester and wolves (esp the latter two) show that a PL team with a good budget can be very competitive (southampton a little while ago and looking like they’re getting better again now) and likewise having a bigger budget doesn’t guarantee success, in the last 5 years we’ve been 8th, chelsea 10th and united and arsenal likely outside the top 7, arsenal potentially bottom half this season (and of course there’s the neighbours who’ve spent daft money the last few years and have one season in Europe where the didnt last until the new year)

also someone like villa who as much as we take the piss out of are one of the biggest clubs in the country yet they spent 3 years in the championship, Leeds are bigger than a lot of PL sides yet on merit haven’t been in the top flight for 16 years whereas much smaller clubs like bournemouth, swansea, hull, Wigan, birmingham have spent a decent amount of time in the top flight since they were last in, ditto forest who are 21 years outside the top flight and like leeds dropped to the 3rd tier yet much ‘smaller’ clubs have outperformed them

Offline rodderzzz

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Re: Is Football Really Broken?
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2020, 02:20:36 am »
Yes football is broken in it’s traditional sense, yes eventually the bigger clubs will move to a European League further ruining the domestic game, yes we’re apart of that due to our standing and yes these articles existed 10-15 years ago quite frequently actually especially when Chelsea started going mad under early abramovich

Offline WhereAngelsPlay

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Re: Is Football Really Broken?
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2020, 02:50:27 am »
The money is shared out more evenly than most if not all the other major leagues.


Liverpool breaking records and hearts must equal "football is broken"
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Offline latortuga

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Re: Is Football Really Broken?
« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2020, 03:11:48 am »
Yes football is broken in it’s traditional sense, yes eventually the bigger clubs will move to a European League further ruining the domestic game, yes we’re apart of that due to our standing and yes these articles existed 10-15 years ago quite frequently actually especially when Chelsea started going mad under early abramovich

Eventually?  Like in another 100 years or so?  Think about how hard clubs find it to execute multi player transfers, now add in a thousand more variables and hungry mouths (agents, lawyers etc.) to feed.  Maybe an oil state could pull this off, but given where oil is heading that opportunity is fast disappearing.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2020, 03:13:34 am by latortuga »

Offline jacobs chains

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Re: Is Football Really Broken?
« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2020, 06:39:48 am »
A lot of the 'is it broke' debate in football (and life in general) is a result of the internet. Advances in the availability of information (true or not) and social media have given us a media behaving like exited teenagers who have seen something and assumed that they are the only ones smart enough to have seen it and realised it's importance.

Has football been broken by the amount of money being sloshed around and concentrated at the top end? No. Football has carried on along the trend it pretty much has since it's inception. It's only since Gazza cried and Sky invented football that us in the top end have rocketed away from the rest. It's two different games now not one broken one.

« Last Edit: February 13, 2020, 06:43:08 am by jacobs chains »

Offline jillcwhomever

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Re: Is Football Really Broken?
« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2020, 07:31:56 am »
The money is shared out more evenly than most if not all the other major leagues.


Liverpool breaking records and hearts must equal "football is broken"

It really isn't as simple as you are making out. There a number of battles being fought in the background by a number of interested parties, the six top teams in the Premier League (of which we are one), the plan to try and force clubs to take yet more fixtures on. Then there is also a battle between FIFA and UEFA, another one which involves clubs like Juventus and RM who want to change the CL. Any of these things could change the football climate very quickly and very suddenly. We need to stop thinking like above and putting everything down to being an effort to taint our title and consider the realities and acknowledge that football as a sport is being driven in a way that is not good for everyone who is in it.

On the back of this I recommend anyone who wants to learn more to listen to the Anfied Wrap and the interview Neil does with Daniel Geey and Tony Evans. I know a number of people dislike Tony (I'm not his greatest fan), but they had a lot of interesting things to say on a number of issues, which is babbling along in the background. I think Neil said there are due to be another two interviews on this subject sometime in the future. It would be very easy to dismiss everything as an effort to taint Liverpool's title, but its more serious than that. Its about the decision that will shape the future of the game we all love and in ways which would not be for the common good of everyone. 
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Offline naYoRHa2b

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Re: Is Football Really Broken?
« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2020, 07:47:44 am »
Interesting timing.

All I'll say is, there are 3 clubs that are to blame in the rapid rise in this so called inequality and disparity.

Offline ToneLa

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Re: Is Football Really Broken?
« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2020, 07:48:48 am »
Anyone who thinks it's anti-Liverpool, there is a nice little part about how when we conquered footie it was "more organic".  :)

Good article, thanks for sharing - I'm not left with the impression football has problems unsolvable; but if anything it makes me think the problems highlighted are representative of the times we're in.

The elite having mountains of cash to chuck at any problem? Money creating a huge disparity? The richest sewing things up? Uh huh, look around you....  ;)

How to get back from this point? Hmm, could be a bubble that bursts, though not sure how. More likely it'll deflate instead of explode. Can you really see player fees doubling or tripling?

I'd like to see something organic though - a new generation of staff in the FA and FIFA who are, by their own natures, at odds with those there now. While I'm happy to lambast clubs like City and Chelsea for being a billionaire's Subbuteo, there is a culture of enabling and greed at the top. Nobody can seriously argue FFP is all it should be.

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Re: Is Football Really Broken?
« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2020, 08:13:13 am »
It really isn't as simple as you are making out. There a number of battles being fought in the background by a number of interested parties, the six top teams in the Premier League (of which we are one), the plan to try and force clubs to take yet more fixtures on. Then there is also a battle between FIFA and UEFA, another one which involves clubs like Juventus and RM who want to change the CL. Any of these things could change the football climate very quickly and very suddenly. We need to stop thinking like above and putting everything down to being an effort to taint our title and consider the realities and acknowledge that football as a sport is being driven in a way that is not good for everyone who is in it.

On the back of this I recommend anyone who wants to learn more to listen to the Anfied Wrap and the interview Neil does with Daniel Geey and Tony Evans. I know a number of people dislike Tony (I'm not his greatest fan), but they had a lot of interesting things to say on a number of issues, which is babbling along in the background. I think Neil said there are due to be another two interviews on this subject sometime in the future. It would be very easy to dismiss everything as an effort to taint Liverpool's title, but its more serious than that. Its about the decision that will shape the future of the game we all love and in ways which would not be for the common good of everyone.

The author of that article is over inflating it a bit though isn't he "Broken beyond repair" Really ?

Anyone can say that they heard some fella say this or that but again I believe he has exaggerated this and also added a bit himself

Quote
“Football history suggests fans like big teams winning,” the official continued, to the group of business people and media figures present. “A certain amount of unpredictability is good, but a more democratic league would be bad for business.”

More democratic,what exactly is he trying to infer,the league is democratic in that everyone gets a vote on the big issues.But I don't believe he heard said senior figure say that because it makes no sense,no sense at all.

And neither does this because apart from us the rest of the so called top clubs have been getting beaten by clubs like Norwich bloody City and we also have Wolves and Sheff United competing well beyond what anybody dreamt before the season started


Quote
Football, as Johan Cruyff once said, is “a game of mistakes”. That is where its unpredictability lies. That is what the embrace of hyper-capitalism is eroding.


The Everton problem though  :lmao :wellin
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Offline rebel23

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Re: Is Football Really Broken?
« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2020, 08:43:35 am »
The latest oil rich owners at PSG have really fucked the market when they paid 200 million for Neymar and 150 million for Mbappe.  This has inflated transfer fee's beyond ridiculous. I predict more players will run down their contracts like what Eriksen did at Spurs so the fee's can be brought down. It will be interesting to see what Mbappe does because his contract will be less than two years this summer.

Even Real Madrid are looking at stopping paying huge fee's now because its got out of hand.  They have been busy snapping up South American players in hoping they come good and save them money.

Offline mikey_LFC

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Re: Is Football Really Broken?
« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2020, 09:28:32 am »
The real difference isn’t the money but the standards and consistency expected even compared to 10 years ago. Whilst one of the drivers behind this is the added investment, I think the major catalyst is the increased professionalism that is driven by a change in coaching and mentality.

It’s so easy to blame money but Leicester showed through their own merit that those teams can achieve an 80+ point season, and just as we took on the challenge when City set a 100 point target, other mid-table teams should be doing the same for the 80 point mark. There are probably a few of those teams already half way to making that jump.

The issue is that there is still a lack of professionalism throughout the bottom half of the premier league and the championship. It’s something that’s almost look at as endearing and with nostalgia by the press. One of the major differentials between our side and the rest is our fitness, which is one of the factors clubs should be able to close the gap on as it’s not a large investment that as brought about that change in our squad. Fitness trainers and nutritionists are a lot cheaper than footballers. But here in lies a real truth, one of the major reasons the top footballers make the extra leap isn’t natural talent but mentality.

The extra perseverance top players show throughout their careers allows them to standout and allows them to make the leap from a good to a great to an unbelievable season. The change in recent times is that you’re saying a lot of that same drive in the best coaches who’ve taken the smaller details to the next level before the rest.

But they’ve got the ability to catch up as these small details are there for everyone to take.

The other contradiction the article makes one compared to the rest of the media output is the use of a domestic treble as a complaint. They want top clubs to take the cups as all the legacy that comes with them seriously, but to have the cheek to win them is beyond the pale.

Top clubs are arguing for less games. This will mean they need smaller squads. Which in turn allows better players to play at lower levels.

If you want us to have replays and two legs at stages in the cup, we’ll need bigger squads, especially if the expectation is to take them  seriously i.e. play a top side.

Money might well be an issue in football but that piece comes across as a piss and moan, making excuses for why the small clubs are hard done by and why our achievements are handed to us on a plate. It’s bollocks and gives the small clubs a get out when what they need is a kick up the arse.
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Offline BoRed

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Re: Is Football Really Broken?
« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2020, 09:36:46 am »
Anyone who thinks it's anti-Liverpool, there is a nice little part about how when we conquered footie it was "more organic".  :)

Good article, thanks for sharing - I'm not left with the impression football has problems unsolvable; but if anything it makes me think the problems highlighted are representative of the times we're in.

The elite having mountains of cash to chuck at any problem? Money creating a huge disparity? The richest sewing things up? Uh huh, look around you....  ;)

Exactly. Football is a reflection of society, and society is well and truly broken. In a capitalist society, football follows capitalist rules, and this is a natural result.

In fact, as has been said above, with 5 different champions in the last ten years, the PL is still relatively competitive, but if you look across Europe, you see it really is broken. Look at France, Germany, Italy, Spain, and no wonder their top teams want a European superleague. It's even worse in smaller leagues, where the same team makes it into the Champions League every year and the gaps grow larger.

For me, it all went wrong when they allowed more than one team per country into the Champions League. I know we massively benefited from that, but we now have teams from just five countries making up the last 16 of the competition. In the old days that would have been 16 countries. Gone are the days of Steaua Bucharest, Red Star Belgrade, Bruges, Celtic or Malmo going far in the competition, these days they're happy if they make the group stage (where half the places are reserved for the top four leagues, without even needing to qualify). The group stage this season consisted of 15 teams that were actually champions of their respective countries last season, and 17 that weren't. Of the 16 teams that remain in the competition, only five won their domestic league last season. And they call it the Champions League!

On the other hand, it's true that, with the wealth being more and more concentrated among the few, the football is now better than ever before. But that's only at the top end. As a result, no one wants to watch anything other than top football. So more and more money goes into the Champions League, and the gaps perpetually grow larger.

I don't know if it's broken beyond repair, but I can't see it being repaired without repairing society first. UEFA's hands are tied by market economics. If they try to curb the clubs' profits, the clubs can form their own company and organise their own competitions any way they like. There's nothing legally stopping them. And you will never see club owners voluntarily give up their potential earnings for the sake of competitiveness. I'd say in the short term, it's only likely to get worse.

Offline Charlie Adams fried egg

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Re: Is Football Really Broken?
« Reply #25 on: February 13, 2020, 10:50:54 am »
I didn't see any slight on Liverpool in the article, but I agree with the replies that have questioned the timing of it.

Since we last won the league, we've first of all had to compete with clubs that responded more quickly to the commercialisation of football, Utd being the prime example.

Then we've had to deal with Chelsea, who were the first really financially doped team of the modern era, although prior to Abramovich, Matthew Harding spent what was a great deal of money on them. 4 years after Ambramovich we had the City takeover.

All we heard from pundits and journos was how great these teams were and how they have "raised the bar" and how the rest have to catch up. We heard very little about how they were distorting football and causing an inflationary spiral in transfer fees and wages, that other clubs had to follow in order to compete, but without the safety net of a sugar daddy.

Now Liverpool have finally started to take advantage of its rich history and international profile, we are seen as one of the bad guys causing football to be fucked?

The truth is that football has been fucked for years, and most journo's have spent decades blowing smoke up the arses of the clubs and institutions that have contributed to the state of the game, instead of asking serious questions and demanding answers.

For what it's worth, my view is that too many extremely average people, from owners, to coaches, to players, agents, broadcasters and pundits have grown fat from a diet of easy TV money. Even if the TV money stopped tomorrow, there are only limited clubs that the very top players could go to in order to maintain wages, and there would be very limited capacity within those clubs. The rest would have no option but to accept reduced wages. If the average wage went down say £5m per year to £500,000 per year, do you think that would stop kids wanting to be footballers? Or stop people wanting to coach footballers, or stop people wanting to watch footballers?

No chance. The game would carry on as it always has done, there may be a temporary drop in standard as the game recalibibrated itself, but the game, our game, would carry on.

Most of us who've bought tickets, or paid TV companies have bought into this massive con trick of repackaging football and selling it back to the fans.

All that said, the game never has been and is unlikely ever to be some egalitarian paradise. The big city well supported clubs have always had a level of dominance and attracted the best players, and money has always flowed in the direction of rich from poor.


Offline DonkeyWan

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Re: Is Football Really Broken?
« Reply #26 on: February 13, 2020, 11:08:51 am »
I think most can agree that their is truth to what the article is talking about. Thoughts;

1] The means to fixing this has to occur at the highest level. Even if heads of domestic leagues redistributed income from TVs and competition further down the food chain, it would only be effective if the same occurred in other countries.
2] Ultimately it will mean a deterioration in the quality of the game at the highest level
3] Apportioning blame does not help, only solutions.
4] FFP was supposed to help address this in part, but wasn't fit for purpose, wasn't successfully implemented and wasn't penal enough.
5] Focussing on 0.1 % overlooks the damage done by the 1-5%. Teams yoyoing in and out of the PL block those from below for example.
6] Bosman kickstarted all this, but so too did mobility of players globally. Recruiting froma round the world has only served to rob the rest of the world
Beatings will continue until morale improves...

Offline Caligula?

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Re: Is Football Really Broken?
« Reply #27 on: February 13, 2020, 11:10:02 am »
I'm tired of old farts everywhere reminiscing about the "good old days" when you could see a player put in a leg breaker and get away with just a yellow card whilst getting your head smashed in outside the ground for simply just being there. Yeah, the glory days. Getting in your British Leyland-made automobile and hoping it doesn't fall apart on your way home whilst you enjoy a salad sandwich spread on two slices of bread and margarine. Nothing tops that. Everything was better back then, especially football. I'd rather watch the brute-hard moustached-manliness of players back then than the skill, finesse and technical ability of Bobby Firmino any time.

The game will carry on.

Offline gamble

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Re: Is Football Really Broken?
« Reply #28 on: February 13, 2020, 11:10:19 am »
Football mirrors life. The big corporations are too big and there reduces the sporting element in football. Every year it’s the same pool of names, and if it isn’t then even “smaller” clubs actually spend far more than they used to just to be near the elite.

Apart from Liverpool I don’t really watch much other footy whereas up until Hodgson’s time I used to still go to the game.

VAR hasn’t helped, I don’t even care about world cups or international football at all. Once Jurgen is done here I will give it up completely.

The younger kids I know, apart from playing fifa on the PlayStation, don’t even care about playing the game so worry about the future of the sport.

Offline ToneLa

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Re: Is Football Really Broken?
« Reply #29 on: February 13, 2020, 11:11:57 am »
I'm not a fan of football

I'm a fan of Liverpool FC

Offline Dim Glas

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Re: Is Football Really Broken?
« Reply #30 on: February 13, 2020, 11:39:12 am »
Love how the journalist has managed to forget about the existence of Borussia Dortmund, yet manages to point out that Kaiserslautern once won the league ;D Also the 'problem' if it is that in Germany in the very recent past (and present) isn't how much better Bayern is, it's the inability of another club to get their shit together at the vital moments to win the sodding league, happened last year and it's happening this year.

And as for England - in 7 of the last 10 years, a team owned by a very dodgy Russian oligarch, and a team owned solely for the purpose of sportswashing the image of a horrendous regime have won the premier league - but apparently it's this season football is finally broken.  Intersting that.


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Re: Is Football Really Broken?
« Reply #31 on: February 13, 2020, 11:55:41 am »
Love how the journalist has managed to forget about the existence of Borussia Dortmund, yet manages to point out that Kaiserslautern once won the league ;D Also the 'problem' if it is that in Germany in the very recent past (and present) isn't how much better Bayern is, it's the inability of another club to get their shit together at the vital moments to win the sodding league, happened last year and it's happening this year.

And as for England - in 7 of the last 10 years, a team owned by a very dodgy Russian oligarch, and a team owned solely for the purpose of sportswashing the image of a horrendous regime have won the premier league - but apparently it's this season football is finally broken.  Intersting that.


Exactly. It's interesting how every c*nt journalist and his dog are coming out of the woodwork just as we're about to wrap up the title. If anything, we're 'un-breaking' football because what we're about to achieve has been gone about in the right way through years of hard work, graft, meticulous planning and persistence. We should be an example of everything that's right in football these days, not the other way around.

Offline Onward Liverpudlian

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Re: Is Football Really Broken?
« Reply #32 on: February 13, 2020, 12:16:31 pm »
I agree with some aspects but the timing of this article is awful if the journalist who wrote it does not have anything particular against LFC as he claims.

I mean for 15 years from end of 90's 2 teams Utd and Arsenal qualified every year for the CL, for much of the last 15 bar 1, Utd, dodgy Russian oligarch owned Chelsea and corrupt oil field owning Abu Dhabi  FC have won the league most times but suddenly LFC come good again and football is broken - it clearly is for some people.

Offline ToneLa

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Re: Is Football Really Broken?
« Reply #33 on: February 13, 2020, 12:17:41 pm »
It goes into far more detail than just a potshot at us. I do recommend reading the whole thing!

Offline Dim Glas

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Re: Is Football Really Broken?
« Reply #34 on: February 13, 2020, 12:20:05 pm »
It goes into far more detail than just a potshot at us. I do recommend reading the whole thing!

I read it, those above where my two takes from it  ;D  Guess the article didn't really have much of an impact on me.

Offline ToneLa

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Re: Is Football Really Broken?
« Reply #35 on: February 13, 2020, 12:35:42 pm »
I read it, those above where my two takes from it  ;D  Guess the article didn't really have much of an impact on me.

Fair dos  ;D As you can see from my own shite earlier my take was just... "Huh, yeah, it's a mirror to society"

Christ, it's all capitalism and greed isn't it? Oh well. We dominated before the PL and we're dominating it now!

Offline kaesarsosei

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Re: Is Football Really Broken?
« Reply #36 on: February 13, 2020, 12:49:35 pm »
1994-2004 - Only United and Arsenal won the league
2005-2011 - Only United and Chelsea won the league
2012+ League has changed hands every season bar one, 5 different winners including us now and United in 2012. Biggest underdog in sporting history won in 2016

This is most parity we've ever had in the PL. it all hinges on collective bargaining on TV rights and whilst in the short-medium term individual bargaining would massively help Liverpool, it would eventually wreck the PL.

Where were these articles when United won a treble in 99 and 3 titles on the trot? Or when they won the league in the first week of April in 2008?

Offline Durlmints

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Re: Is Football Really Broken?
« Reply #37 on: February 13, 2020, 01:06:23 pm »
Media When Liverpool Were Terrible: "Liverpool haven't won the league for 25-30 Years, they need to accept they are a mid table club now", etc. etc.

Media Now Liverpool Are Finally Winning Some Trophies, Including One That Many Adults Have Never Seen In Their Lifetimes: "Is Football Broken?"

It's not Football's fault that United spent hundreds of millions on shite like Fred, Sanchez, Lindelof, Maguire and Bailly.

It's not Football's fault that Spurs insist on playing Rose & Aurier at fullbacks and refuse to sign any competition for Kane.

It's not Football's fault that Chelsea broke transfer rules, spent 70m on a dud keeper, spent 58m on an alright winger, and lost Loftus-Cheek whilst playing a commercial friendly.

It's not Football's fault that Liverpool have scouted incredibly well for players like Robertson at tiny fees, brought through homegrown talent like Alexander-Arnold, reinvigorated careers and latent talent like Oxlade, and are so incredibly well drilled by a great tactician that new signings look terrible for about 4 months until they get the system.

Liverpool are going to add a new name to the PL honours list and it seems like many want to play that down. If it were any other team about to win their first Premier League title it would be used as a beacon of hope to show how healthy the game is right now.

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Offline jillcwhomever

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Re: Is Football Really Broken?
« Reply #38 on: February 13, 2020, 01:09:36 pm »
I'm not a fan of football

I'm a fan of Liverpool FC

We should all be fans of football. Without football there is no Liverpool FC.
"He's trying to get right away from football. I believe he went to Everton"

Offline ToneLa

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Re: Is Football Really Broken?
« Reply #39 on: February 13, 2020, 01:11:47 pm »
We should all be fans of football. Without football there is no Liverpool FC.

There is no football without Liverpool FC  8)