Author Topic: Freedom of speech  (Read 87604 times)

Offline Flinstone

  • Whatever you like. Would like to slip it in without making it awkward... Chinese Information Minister
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,747
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #200 on: January 12, 2015, 08:04:51 am »
Why is it okay for charlie hebdo to publish with freedom yet M'bala M'bala was prosecuted for inciting hatred against the jews? Double standards?
The West is finished, China is the future

Online TepidT2O

  • Deffo NOT 9"! MUFC bedwetter. Grass. Folically-challenged, God-piece-wearing, monkey-rubber. Jizz aroma expert. Operating at the lower end of the distribution curve...has the hots for Alan. Bastard. Fearless in transfer windows with lack of convicti
  • Lead Matchday Commentator
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 95,504
  • Dejan Lovren fan club member #1
Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #201 on: January 12, 2015, 08:16:09 am »
Why is it okay for charlie hebdo to publish with freedom yet M'bala M'bala was prosecuted for inciting hatred against the jews? Double standards?
You've answered your own question.  It was inciting hatred.
Charlie Hebo was satirising religion.

Having not read either, it's very difficult to understand the cultural impact of either wouldn't you agree?
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

Offline Twelfth Man

  • Rhianna fan. my arse! Someone fill me in. Any takers? :) We are the fabulous CFC...
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 19,012
Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #202 on: January 12, 2015, 08:41:34 am »
Why is it okay for charlie hebdo to publish with freedom yet M'bala M'bala was prosecuted for inciting hatred against the jews? Double standards?
You've answered your own question.  It was inciting hatred.
Charlie Hebo was satirising religion.

Having not read either, it's very difficult to understand the cultural impact of either wouldn't you agree?
If this M'bala was smarter, he could have satirised the Jewish religion and then not fallen foul of the law.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2015, 08:49:56 am by Twelfth Man »
The courts, the rich, the powerful or those in authority never lie. It has been dealt with 'by the courts' nothing to see here run along.

Offline stara

  • ra-boom-de-ay. RAWK's very own Dicktionary Corner.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,688
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #203 on: January 12, 2015, 08:45:16 am »
Why is it okay for charlie hebdo to publish with freedom yet M'bala M'bala was prosecuted for inciting hatred against the jews? Double standards?

No double standards as you put it, he's been prosecuted ...so clearly he has used he's freedom to publish.

But, this I call double standard:

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/associated-press-censors-mohamed-cartoons-sells-piss-christ-prints/article/2558314
« Last Edit: January 12, 2015, 01:56:17 pm by stara »
50+1. Real FFP rules. Now.

Online TepidT2O

  • Deffo NOT 9"! MUFC bedwetter. Grass. Folically-challenged, God-piece-wearing, monkey-rubber. Jizz aroma expert. Operating at the lower end of the distribution curve...has the hots for Alan. Bastard. Fearless in transfer windows with lack of convicti
  • Lead Matchday Commentator
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 95,504
  • Dejan Lovren fan club member #1
Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #204 on: January 12, 2015, 08:52:21 am »
If this M'bala was smarter, he could have satirised the Jewish religion and then not fallen foul of the law.
What was the accusation? Do you even know?
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

Offline Yorkykopite

  • Misses Danny Boy with a passion. Phil's Official Biographer, dontcherknow...it's all true. Honestly.
  • RAWK Writer
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 35,197
  • The first five yards........
Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #205 on: January 12, 2015, 10:07:37 am »
If this M'bala was smarter, he could have satirised the Jewish religion and then not fallen foul of the law.

If he was smarter he wouldn't be an anti-semite in the first place.
"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.

Offline Twelfth Man

  • Rhianna fan. my arse! Someone fill me in. Any takers? :) We are the fabulous CFC...
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 19,012
Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #206 on: January 12, 2015, 10:26:56 am »
What was the accusation? Do you even know?
No.
If he was smarter he wouldn't be an anti-semite in the first place.
There is that.
The courts, the rich, the powerful or those in authority never lie. It has been dealt with 'by the courts' nothing to see here run along.

Offline Veinticinco de Mayo

  • Almost as nice as Hellmans and cheaper too! Feedback tourist #57. President of ZATAA.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 35,467
  • In an aeroplane over RAWK
Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #207 on: January 12, 2015, 10:33:30 am »
but crucially not whether it hurts their feelings....

I think the issue at the heart of this case is a bit more serious than "hurting feelings", there is a disconnect in understanding between the two sides here which needs to be bridged.
Tweeting shit about LFC @kevhowson Tweeting shit about music @GigMonkey2
Bill Shankly - 'The socialism I believe in is not really politics; it is humanity, a way of living and sharing the rewards'

Offline Corkboy

  • Sworn enemy of Bottlegirl. The Boston Toilet Mangler. Grauniad of the Cidatel. Into kinky S&M with the Lash.
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 32,449
  • Is it getting better?
Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #208 on: January 12, 2015, 03:47:21 pm »
Egypt student gets 3-year jail term for atheism

Cairo (AFP) - An Egyptian court has sentenced a student to three years in jail for announcing on Facebook that he is an atheist and for insulting Islam, his lawyer said Sunday.

Karim al-Banna, a 21-year-old whose own father testified against him, was jailed by a court in the Nile Delta province of Baheira on Saturday, lawyer Ahmed Abdel Nabi told AFP.

"He was handed down a three-year prison sentence, and if he pays a bail of 1,000 Egyptian pounds ($ 140 or 117 euros) the sentence can be suspended until a verdict is issued by an appeals court," Abdel Nabi said, adding that an appeal was to be heard on March 9.

Abdel Nabi said his client's father had testified against his son, charging that he "was embracing extremist ideas against Islam".

Banna's name had appeared in a list of known atheists in a local daily after which his neighbours harassed him, said Ishaq Ibrahim, a researcher on religion and beliefs at the Egyptian Initiative for Personal Rights.

When Banna went to file a complaint against them at a police station, he was accused of insulting Islam and arrested, said Ibrahim, who has been tracking Banna's case.

Banna has been in custody since November.

In December 2012, a 27-year-old blogger, Alber Saber, was sentenced to three years in jail on charges of blasphemy.

And last June, a Coptic Christian man was sentenced to six years in jail for insulting Islam.

The authorities have stepped up measures, including organising workshops, to counter atheism.

Egypt's constitution outlaws insults against the three recognised monotheist religions -- Islam, Christianity and Judaism.

source

Offline Corkboy

  • Sworn enemy of Bottlegirl. The Boston Toilet Mangler. Grauniad of the Cidatel. Into kinky S&M with the Lash.
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 32,449
  • Is it getting better?
Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #209 on: January 12, 2015, 05:03:58 pm »
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/4Z2uzEM0ugY&amp;feature=youtu.be" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/4Z2uzEM0ugY&amp;feature=youtu.be</a>

Offline Alan_X

  • WUM. 'twatito' - The Cat Herding Firm But Fair Voice Of Reason (Except when he's got a plank up his arse). Gimme some skin, priest! Has a general dislike for Elijah Wood. Clearly cannot fill even a thong! RAWK Resident Muppet. Has a crush o
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 53,767
  • Come on you fucking red men!!!
  • Super Title: This is super!
Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #210 on: January 12, 2015, 06:09:29 pm »
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/4Z2uzEM0ugY&amp;feature=youtu.be" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/4Z2uzEM0ugY&amp;feature=youtu.be</a>


What a loss.
Sid Lowe (@sidlowe)
09/03/2011 08:04
Give a man a mask and he will tell the truth, Give a man a user name and he will act like a total twat.
Its all about winning shiny things.

Offline Yorkykopite

  • Misses Danny Boy with a passion. Phil's Official Biographer, dontcherknow...it's all true. Honestly.
  • RAWK Writer
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 35,197
  • The first five yards........
Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #211 on: January 12, 2015, 06:18:16 pm »
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/4Z2uzEM0ugY&amp;feature=youtu.be" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/4Z2uzEM0ugY&amp;feature=youtu.be</a>

Superb.

Although I don't think he should be allowed to say what he did about Yorkshire folk.
"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.

Offline Red Genius

  • Part of the Neville clan. Voted "Most misnamed RAWKite" 2009-10. Reformed Coprophagiac
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,506
Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #212 on: January 12, 2015, 07:15:41 pm »
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/4Z2uzEM0ugY&amp;feature=youtu.be" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/4Z2uzEM0ugY&amp;feature=youtu.be</a>


fantastic, as my opening post outlined...christopher articulates far better 'kiss my arse' line.....genius
"I have been privileged and lucky to wear the legendary red shirt. No one can take it away from me. YNWA, I don't have to walk alone because Liverpool FC will always be in my heart."

The Legend - Sami Hyypia

Offline Sudden Death Draft Loser

  • old and annoying
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 9,483
Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #213 on: January 12, 2015, 08:09:06 pm »
Wow
"The greatest argument against democracy is to have a five minute conversation  with the average voter. "

Offline Mutton Geoff

  • 'The Invigilator'
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 32,705
  • Life is a journey, not a destination.
Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #214 on: January 12, 2015, 08:42:00 pm »
oh how i  miss Christopher Hitchens, if there was a true god he would have taken his brother instead.

To get back to the point Freedom of Speech comes with some  Responsibility for your words, but not pay with your life for it.

 I dont know if anyone else heard the Family man from down south who ran a Pakistani Restaurant , he said the day after this on Radio 4  to partly explain it, you can insult my wife , you can insult my kids,  but don't insult my prophet.
Mellowing and Retired, and stayed around long enough to watch the Tories implode

Online TepidT2O

  • Deffo NOT 9"! MUFC bedwetter. Grass. Folically-challenged, God-piece-wearing, monkey-rubber. Jizz aroma expert. Operating at the lower end of the distribution curve...has the hots for Alan. Bastard. Fearless in transfer windows with lack of convicti
  • Lead Matchday Commentator
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 95,504
  • Dejan Lovren fan club member #1
Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #215 on: January 12, 2015, 09:01:51 pm »
oh how i  miss Christopher Hitchens, if there was a true god he would have taken his brother instead.

To get back to the point Freedom of Speech comes with some  Responsibility for your words, but not pay with your life for it.

 I dont know if anyone else heard the Family man from down south who ran a Pakistani Restaurant , he said the day after this on Radio 4  to partly explain it, you can insult my wife , you can insult my kids,  but don't insult my prophet.
God or no god, we will all die.
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

Online oldfordie

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 15,211
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #216 on: January 12, 2015, 09:59:20 pm »
Always loved to listen to Christopher but i think he is wrong about Holocaust deniers being allowed a platform to speak. the problem is he assumes every person who listens is a responsible adult who has the ability to rationalize and form a logical opinion.
Children and teenagers need to be protected, they can form prejudices for life. all based on lies.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2015, 10:01:33 pm by oldfordie »
You can tell his dad was a toolmaker. That’s an impressive cabinet he’s put together..

Offline Corkboy

  • Sworn enemy of Bottlegirl. The Boston Toilet Mangler. Grauniad of the Cidatel. Into kinky S&M with the Lash.
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 32,449
  • Is it getting better?
Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #217 on: January 12, 2015, 10:27:12 pm »
Always loved to listen to Christopher but i think he is wrong about Holocaust deniers being allowed a platform to speak. the problem is he assumes every person who listens is a responsible adult who has the ability to rationalize and form a logical opinion.
Children and teenagers need to be protected, they can form prejudices for life. all based on lies.

No, with respect, you're falling into the same trap. The solution to protecting kids is to let them hear all sides of the issue, the informed, the uninformed and the malicious. In fact, if I was teaching my kid about the Holocaust, I would definitely include the deniers. And nobody is talking about giving someone a platform, merely not silencing them.

Online oldfordie

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 15,211
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #218 on: January 12, 2015, 11:00:28 pm »
Oh yes definitely, the best way to fight holocaust deniers etc is with a sound argument that shows them up for what they are. that's what would happen in an ideal world.
Problem is not all children receive the guidance to hear all the facts to form a logical opinion. those children need protecting before they form prejudices that may stay with them for life.
My point is people can hold any opinion they like but they shouldn't be able to tell lies that influence young minds on a subject so serious as the Holocaust.
It's not the opinion am trying to silence. it's the lies they spout to trick younger gullible minds.
I also understand Christopher point about just 1 persons right to challenge facts we all take as 100% true. i wont accept this applies to the holocaust though.
You can tell his dad was a toolmaker. That’s an impressive cabinet he’s put together..

Offline Corkboy

  • Sworn enemy of Bottlegirl. The Boston Toilet Mangler. Grauniad of the Cidatel. Into kinky S&M with the Lash.
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 32,449
  • Is it getting better?
Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #219 on: January 12, 2015, 11:05:07 pm »
It's not the opinion am trying to silence. it's the lies they spout to trick younger gullible minds.

You presume Holocaust deniers are intentionally lying, when I doubt they are. After all, what you posted there adequately describes religion.

Offline End Product

  • doesn't always come out of the right end
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,849
Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #220 on: January 12, 2015, 11:08:10 pm »
Censorship only expands ignorance you put Nick Griffen on Question Time because he looks a tool when conversing with mammals.   
No time for caution.

Online TepidT2O

  • Deffo NOT 9"! MUFC bedwetter. Grass. Folically-challenged, God-piece-wearing, monkey-rubber. Jizz aroma expert. Operating at the lower end of the distribution curve...has the hots for Alan. Bastard. Fearless in transfer windows with lack of convicti
  • Lead Matchday Commentator
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 95,504
  • Dejan Lovren fan club member #1
Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #221 on: January 12, 2015, 11:10:50 pm »
Censorship only expands ignorance you put Nick Griffen on Question Time because he looks a tool when conversing with mammals.   
Dubbing Gerry Adams voice only helped him
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

Offline Corkboy

  • Sworn enemy of Bottlegirl. The Boston Toilet Mangler. Grauniad of the Cidatel. Into kinky S&M with the Lash.
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 32,449
  • Is it getting better?
Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #222 on: January 12, 2015, 11:16:24 pm »
My, some of these Muslims really take the whole "don't represent people" thing very seriously.

Saudi cleric condemns snowmen as anti-Islamic

DUBAI Mon Jan 12, 2015

(Reuters) - A prominent Saudi Arabian cleric has whipped up controversy by issuing a religious ruling forbidding the building of snowmen, described them as anti-Islamic.

Asked on a religious website if it was permissible for fathers to build snowmen for their children after a snowstorm in the country's north, Sheikh Mohammed Saleh al-Munajjid replied: "It is not permitted to make a statue out of snow, even by way of play and fun."

Quoting from Muslim scholars, Sheikh Munajjid argued that to build a snowman was to create an image of a human being, an action considered sinful under the kingdom's strict interpretation of Sunni Islam.

"God has given people space to make whatever they want which does not have a soul, including trees, ships, fruits, buildings and so on," he wrote in his ruling.

That provoked swift responses from Twitter users writing in Arabic and identifying themselves with Arab names.

"They are afraid for their faith of everything ... sick minds," one Twitter user wrote.

Another posted a photo of a man in formal Arab garb holding the arm of a "snow bride" wearing a bra and lipstick. "The reason for the ban is fear of sedition," he wrote.

A third said the country was plagued by two types of people:

"A people looking for a fatwa (religious ruling) for everything in their lives, and a cleric who wants to interfere in everything in the lives of others through a fatwa," the user wrote.

Sheikh Munajjid had some supporters, however. "It (building snowmen) is imitating the infidels, it promotes lustiness and eroticism," one wrote.

"May God preserve the scholars, for they enjoy sharp vision and recognize matters that even Satan does not think about."

Snow has covered upland areas of Tabuk province near Saudi Arabia's border with Jordan for the third consecutive year as cold weather swept across the Middle East.

source

Online oldfordie

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 15,211
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #223 on: January 12, 2015, 11:22:17 pm »
deleted.
 
You can tell his dad was a toolmaker. That’s an impressive cabinet he’s put together..

Offline Corkboy

  • Sworn enemy of Bottlegirl. The Boston Toilet Mangler. Grauniad of the Cidatel. Into kinky S&M with the Lash.
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 32,449
  • Is it getting better?
Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #224 on: January 12, 2015, 11:24:01 pm »

Offline Xabi Gerrard

  • WHERE IS MY VOTE?
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,910
Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #225 on: January 12, 2015, 11:26:21 pm »
My, some of these Muslims really take the whole "don't represent people" thing very seriously.

Saudi cleric condemns snowmen as anti-Islamic

DUBAI Mon Jan 12, 2015


source

Come on mate, is there really any need for this? It's completely irrelevant to the topic, just a cheap dig at muslims.

Yes the man is a cretin and yes its mildly amusing, but no more the countless cretinous things you hear from deep south pastors ranting nonsense about gays or creationism.


Offline Yorkykopite

  • Misses Danny Boy with a passion. Phil's Official Biographer, dontcherknow...it's all true. Honestly.
  • RAWK Writer
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 35,197
  • The first five yards........
Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #226 on: January 12, 2015, 11:28:11 pm »
Come on mate, is there really any need for this? It's completely irrelevant to the topic, just a cheap dig at muslims.

Yes the man is a cretin and yes its mildly amusing, but no more the countless cretinous things you hear from deep south pastors ranting nonsense about gays or creationism.



Yes there is a need for it because it's connected with this.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/09/saudi-blogger-first-lashes-raif-badawi

"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.

Offline Alan_X

  • WUM. 'twatito' - The Cat Herding Firm But Fair Voice Of Reason (Except when he's got a plank up his arse). Gimme some skin, priest! Has a general dislike for Elijah Wood. Clearly cannot fill even a thong! RAWK Resident Muppet. Has a crush o
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 53,767
  • Come on you fucking red men!!!
  • Super Title: This is super!
Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #227 on: January 12, 2015, 11:28:30 pm »
Come on mate, is there really any need for this? It's completely irrelevant to the topic, just a cheap dig at muslims.

Yes the man is a cretin and yes its mildly amusing, but no more the countless cretinous things you hear from deep south pastors ranting nonsense about gays or creationism.

So you're saying you shouldn't make fun of one religion because other religions are just as bad?
Sid Lowe (@sidlowe)
09/03/2011 08:04
Give a man a mask and he will tell the truth, Give a man a user name and he will act like a total twat.
Its all about winning shiny things.

Offline Xabi Gerrard

  • WHERE IS MY VOTE?
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,910
Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #228 on: January 12, 2015, 11:30:55 pm »
So you're saying you shouldn't make fun of one religion because other religions are just as bad?

No mate, just that i felt it was irrelevant to the topic. Just feels like its take a cheap dig at muslim time. But whatever, just my opinion.

Online oldfordie

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 15,211
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #229 on: January 12, 2015, 11:31:49 pm »
You presume Holocaust deniers are intentionally lying, when I doubt they are. After all, what you posted there adequately describes religion.
I think the most dangerous Holocaust deniers are not only lying they are falsifying evidence. claiming to have run forensics study's that prove the gas chambers never existed etc.
It's been yrs since i read up on this but if i remember right they provide detailed analysis on the walls of gas chambers that they claim prove gas was never used.
You can tell his dad was a toolmaker. That’s an impressive cabinet he’s put together..

Offline Corkboy

  • Sworn enemy of Bottlegirl. The Boston Toilet Mangler. Grauniad of the Cidatel. Into kinky S&M with the Lash.
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 32,449
  • Is it getting better?
Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #230 on: January 12, 2015, 11:35:38 pm »
Come on mate, is there really any need for this? It's completely irrelevant to the topic, just a cheap dig at muslims.

I was actually going to put it in the Hebdo thread, but I thought this was probably a better place. I mean, being told whether you can make snowmen or not is a pretty serious limitation on your freedom of expression.


Offline Alan_X

  • WUM. 'twatito' - The Cat Herding Firm But Fair Voice Of Reason (Except when he's got a plank up his arse). Gimme some skin, priest! Has a general dislike for Elijah Wood. Clearly cannot fill even a thong! RAWK Resident Muppet. Has a crush o
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 53,767
  • Come on you fucking red men!!!
  • Super Title: This is super!
Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #231 on: January 12, 2015, 11:38:56 pm »
I was actually going to put it in the Hebdo thread, but I thought this was probably a better place. I mean, being told whether you can make snowmen or not is a pretty serious limitation on your freedom of expression.



Did you read the one about the religious preacher who claims that Starbucks are putting gay men's semen in their coffee?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/06/anti-gay-church-starbucks_n_6115136.html
Sid Lowe (@sidlowe)
09/03/2011 08:04
Give a man a mask and he will tell the truth, Give a man a user name and he will act like a total twat.
Its all about winning shiny things.

Offline Xabi Gerrard

  • WHERE IS MY VOTE?
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,910
Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #232 on: January 12, 2015, 11:40:22 pm »
I was actually going to put it in the Hebdo thread, but I thought this was probably a better place. I mean, being told whether you can make snowmen or not is a pretty serious limitation on your freedom of expression.

Would you like me to find some Bible creationist claptrap to balance it out? I don't mind, I like to vary my vitriol.

Fair enough Corkboy, I'm probably being a bit oversensitive. I've seen anti-Muslim sentiments racheted up manifold in recent days - completely understandably I hate to say for the most part, but also seeing a very ugly (unnecessary) element also emerge.

Shouldn't have put that on you, apologies. Carry on.....

Offline Yorkykopite

  • Misses Danny Boy with a passion. Phil's Official Biographer, dontcherknow...it's all true. Honestly.
  • RAWK Writer
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 35,197
  • The first five yards........
Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #233 on: January 12, 2015, 11:41:34 pm »
Some are lying deliberately, some are stupid and ignorant but sincere, some are sick and delusional and some are ideological and dedicated anti-semites. It hardly matters. They all need combatting and the worst way to do this is by sending them to prison for 'holocaust denial'. And as Hitchens says in that piece some great things have come from combatting the deniers. I have this book in my library.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Case-Auschwitz-Evidence-Irving/dp/0253340160

It's a great work of scholarship on the forensics and archaeology of the Auschwitz-Birkenau killing apparatus. The work grew out of Van Pelt's testimony at the Irving libel trial at the Old Bailey. It would never have been written if Irving had been silenced by the law instead of by his academic opponents. Therefore, in a strange way, the activity of Irving the Holocaust Denier means we've learnt a good deal more about the Holocaust. 

"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.

Offline Corkboy

  • Sworn enemy of Bottlegirl. The Boston Toilet Mangler. Grauniad of the Cidatel. Into kinky S&M with the Lash.
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 32,449
  • Is it getting better?
Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #234 on: January 12, 2015, 11:44:39 pm »
Did you read the one about the religious preacher who claims that Starbucks are putting gay men's semen in their coffee?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/06/anti-gay-church-starbucks_n_6115136.html

"Obama has released the homo demons on the black man. Look out black woman. A white homo may take your man."

Love it.

Offline Alan_X

  • WUM. 'twatito' - The Cat Herding Firm But Fair Voice Of Reason (Except when he's got a plank up his arse). Gimme some skin, priest! Has a general dislike for Elijah Wood. Clearly cannot fill even a thong! RAWK Resident Muppet. Has a crush o
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 53,767
  • Come on you fucking red men!!!
  • Super Title: This is super!
Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #235 on: January 12, 2015, 11:44:58 pm »
Some are lying deliberately, some are stupid and ignorant but sincere, some are sick and delusional and some are ideological and dedicated anti-semites. It hardly matters. They all need combatting and the worst way to do this is by sending them to prison for 'holocaust denial'. And as Hitchens says in that piece some great things have come from combatting the deniers. I have this book in my library.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Case-Auschwitz-Evidence-Irving/dp/0253340160

It's a great work of scholarship on the forensics and archaeology of the Auschwitz-Birkenau killing apparatus. The work grew out of Van Pelt's testimony at the Irving libel trial at the Old Bailey. It would never have been written if Irving had been silenced by the law instead of by his academic opponents. Therefore, in a strange way, the activity of Irving the Holocaust Denier means we've learnt a good deal more about the Holocaust. 



One of the strongest lines in that Hitchens piece is when he asks the audience who they would trust to tell them what to think.
Sid Lowe (@sidlowe)
09/03/2011 08:04
Give a man a mask and he will tell the truth, Give a man a user name and he will act like a total twat.
Its all about winning shiny things.

Offline Corkboy

  • Sworn enemy of Bottlegirl. The Boston Toilet Mangler. Grauniad of the Cidatel. Into kinky S&M with the Lash.
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 32,449
  • Is it getting better?
Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #236 on: January 12, 2015, 11:51:33 pm »
Therefore, in a strange way, the activity of Irving the Holocaust Denier means we've learnt a good deal more about the Holocaust. 

That's how it works, that's how it's supposed to work. Each time someone starts talking bollocks, someone else has to stand up and educate him, and in doing so reacquaint themselves with the latest thinking on the matter. He might not listen but it's more a case of pour encourager les autres. You have to trust that les autres are on your side but that's the debit side of a costly thing like freedom of speech.

Offline Corkboy

  • Sworn enemy of Bottlegirl. The Boston Toilet Mangler. Grauniad of the Cidatel. Into kinky S&M with the Lash.
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 32,449
  • Is it getting better?
Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #237 on: January 13, 2015, 12:19:38 am »
Orgy of freedom of expression news in here tonight, folks.

China has just banned the burqa in its biggest Muslim city

"The state-run news agency Xinhua justified the burqa ban by pointing out that burqas are also banned in France (perhaps not the best example to use, given the recent extremist attack on French magazine Charlie Hebdo). The Xinhua report in English said, “Burqas are not traditional dress for Uighur women… The regulation is seen as an effort to curb growing extremism that forced Uighur women to abandon their colorful traditional dress and wear black burqas.”

That's hilarious. Someone thought it was funny to point out that France might not be the best human rights exemplar. Compared to fucking China.

Offline Twelfth Man

  • Rhianna fan. my arse! Someone fill me in. Any takers? :) We are the fabulous CFC...
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 19,012
Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #238 on: January 13, 2015, 12:28:14 am »
Did you read the one about the religious preacher who claims that Starbucks are putting gay men's semen in their coffee?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/06/anti-gay-church-starbucks_n_6115136.html
That explains why my latte felt a bit off the other day...
The courts, the rich, the powerful or those in authority never lie. It has been dealt with 'by the courts' nothing to see here run along.

Offline Trada

  • Fully paid up member of the JC cult. Ex-Tory boy. Corbyn's Chief Hagiographer. Sometimes hasn't got a kloop.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 22,885
  • Trada
Re: Freedom of speech
« Reply #239 on: January 13, 2015, 12:44:28 am »
Government Responds To Attack On Our Freedoms With New Plans To Curtail Our Freedoms

David Cameron today vowed to give security services more powers to curtail Britons' freedom in response to the latest terrorist attack on our freedom.

"These terrorist attacks are an attack on our way of life - which is why the only way to respond to them is to change our way of life," said the Prime Minister.

"We will give the security services whatever they need, including the powers to override our right to privacy - a freedom which the terrorists just don't understand."

Confirming that he will introduce the so-called 'snooper's charter' if he is re-elected in May, Cameron added: "Millions of Britons have expressed their support for the people in Paris, so it's very important that the Britsh people are listened to. Preferably 24 hours a day, through surveillance equipment."

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/01/12/uk-terrorism-snoopers-charter-spoof_n_6456720.html?utm_hp_ref=uk-politics&ir=UK+Politics
Don't blame me I voted for Jeremy Corbyn!!

Miss you Tracy more and more every day xxx

“I carry them with me: what they would have thought and said and done. Make them a part of who I am. So even though they’re gone from the world they’re never gone from me.