Author Topic: Dejan Lovren  (Read 501305 times)

Offline sms1986

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Re: Dejan Lovren signs new long-term Liverpool contract
« Reply #2840 on: July 13, 2018, 12:21:27 pm »
Except I said Lovren has had a really good World Cup.

The issue is posters saying he can't be targeted when United clearly did that in March and that his mistakes can be erased because he was probably carrying an injury. For me the criticism he was getting earlier in his Liverpool career was way over the top and now it has gone the other way.

I think people are just happy for him as he's in a World Cup final and has done well for Croatia during the tournament. It'll give him a boost of confidence for next season.

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Re: Dejan Lovren signs new long-term Liverpool contract
« Reply #2841 on: July 13, 2018, 12:36:19 pm »
It isn't a ball knocked short into midfield it is a driven up to Lukaku and for me Lovren should be winning those all day.

I'm going to presume that Lovren and Lukaku are roughly the same height and the same weight, and both are very good in the air.

If a long-ball gets knocked up to them over and over again and they are the only ones competing for it, you cannot expect one of them to win the header every single time.

Also, losing a header 50 yards from goal should not result in a goal being conceded five seconds later.

I remember having an issue with Lovren after that game but it had nothing to do with him not winning the headers because they were basically 50/50 challenges. My main issue was that he got dragged out of position by Lukaku when, if it was me, I would have just dropped off and let Lukaku do whatever he wanted to do. But then again, I'm shit.
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Offline PoetryInMotion

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Re: Dejan Lovren signs new long-term Liverpool contract
« Reply #2842 on: July 13, 2018, 01:08:12 pm »
I'm going to presume that Lovren and Lukaku are roughly the same height and the same weight, and both are very good in the air.

If a long-ball gets knocked up to them over and over again and they are the only ones competing for it, you cannot expect one of them to win the header every single time.

Also, losing a header 50 yards from goal should not result in a goal being conceded five seconds later.


I remember having an issue with Lovren after that game but it had nothing to do with him not winning the headers because they were basically 50/50 challenges. My main issue was that he got dragged out of position by Lukaku when, if it was me, I would have just dropped off and let Lukaku do whatever he wanted to do. But then again, I'm shit.

Exactly. This is a simple point that was discussed and beaten to death before and yet the same thing has started again. It doesn't matter if Al has credited Lovren for the World Cup or not if he's going to bring up losing a 50-50, 50 yards from goal as a major criticism, and at an unwarranted time like this.

I understand your 2nd point, but if he does let Lukaku win it and hold his place, Lukaku's likely playing the ball to the path of Rashford making the run. Can's the one who's weak there, because he doesn't see the situation. We shouldn't be conceding goals like that, but after the Palace game, it looks like we haven't. Klopp's had a word and it's sorted. Looks like tactical misjudgment on the part of a combination of players more than anything. To beat the same bush again and again as if it was some major error by one player like he's doing, is frankly absurd.

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Re: Dejan Lovren signs new long-term Liverpool contract
« Reply #2843 on: July 13, 2018, 01:19:25 pm »
I'm going to presume that Lovren and Lukaku are roughly the same height and the same weight, and both are very good in the air.

If a long-ball gets knocked up to them over and over again and they are the only ones competing for it, you cannot expect one of them to win the header every single time.

Also, losing a header 50 yards from goal should not result in a goal being conceded five seconds later.

I remember having an issue with Lovren after that game but it had nothing to do with him not winning the headers because they were basically 50/50 challenges. My main issue was that he got dragged out of position by Lukaku when, if it was me, I would have just dropped off and let Lukaku do whatever he wanted to do. But then again, I'm shit.


You would have been subbed off in less time than George Weah's cousin, then, at that level :D
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Offline jepovic

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Re: Dejan Lovren signs new long-term Liverpool contract
« Reply #2844 on: July 13, 2018, 02:36:22 pm »
Only Liverpool player in the wc final.
One of two (?) players in the world to play both CL and wc final this year.
One of the best defenders at the tournament.
But yeah, let's not forget that one time he lost an aerial against Lukaku

Offline sms1986

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Re: Dejan Lovren signs new long-term Liverpool contract
« Reply #2845 on: July 13, 2018, 02:37:40 pm »
Only Liverpool player in the wc final.
One of two (?) players in the world to play both CL and wc final this year.
One of the best defenders at the tournament.
But yeah, let's not forget that one time he lost an aerial against Lukaku

Exactly, there's no need to bring up irrelevant things from the past.

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Re: Dejan Lovren signs new long-term Liverpool contract
« Reply #2846 on: July 13, 2018, 02:38:13 pm »
But yeah, let's not forget that one time he lost an aerial against Lukaku

Haha, I'm glad it's not escaped everyone's notice that the most recent roundabout argument from AL essentially amounted to "our central defender once lost a header to Lukaku".

Certainly a perfectionist!

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Re: Dejan Lovren signs new long-term Liverpool contract
« Reply #2847 on: July 13, 2018, 02:48:11 pm »
No-one's been there. I've even checked with two people I know studying at the big university there. They've confirmed that:
a) The town doesn't exist.
b) If it did exist, it wouldn't have a football team.
c) Even if it did, it never had a goalkeeper.
d
d) If there had been a goalkeeper, he only would have played well because of VVD...
e) Who was obviously never there, because a).

The whole Mainz thing was basically made up by Klopp to buff his CV for the Dortmund job. Everybody knows you can't get anywhere in Germany with gaps on your CV.
Confirms all my suspicions.

Klopp basically worked as a host in a restaurant called Le Mainz, fudged the paperwork to get a job managing Dortmund. Not sure how big they are, it's possible they only play 5 games a year on average based on what I have seen btw. So then exaggerates the importance of that job managing some small German club to get a job here and sign a former plate cleaner (dropped most of them) at Le Mainz.
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Offline 24/7

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Re: Dejan Lovren signs new long-term Liverpool contract
« Reply #2848 on: July 13, 2018, 02:49:01 pm »
Lukaku v Kane in 3rd Place Face-Saving Fight Off.

Lovren in Final.

Ergo, Lovren > Lukaku.

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Re: Dejan Lovren signs new long-term Liverpool contract
« Reply #2849 on: July 13, 2018, 03:09:34 pm »
Exactly, there's no need to bring up irrelevant things from the past.
here here

wish people could just be happy for him

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Offline PoetryInMotion

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Re: Dejan Lovren signs new long-term Liverpool contract
« Reply #2850 on: July 13, 2018, 03:28:17 pm »
Confirms all my suspicions.

Klopp basically worked as a host in a restaurant called Le Mainz, fudged the paperwork to get a job managing Dortmund. Not sure how big they are, it's possible they only play 5 games a year on average based on what I have seen btw. So then exaggerates the importance of that job managing some small German club to get a job here and sign a former plate cleaner (dropped most of them) at Le Mainz.

If he doesn't stop breaking the plates, then Klopp out!!

Offline BabuYagu

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Re: Dejan Lovren signs new long-term Liverpool contract
« Reply #2851 on: July 13, 2018, 04:36:22 pm »
So we have 3 key problems with Lovren.
1. He isn't good enough on the ball
2. He misses too many games with injury
3. He losses aerial duels

That seems fair. Those certainly look like three problems we don't want in our center halves. On the plus side, these things are all very measurable. So I will run a search to find Center Halves who played more league minutes than Lovren (he missed too much because of injury), have a better passing accuracy (he isn't good enough on the ball), have 3+ Aerial Duels per 90 (not passive) in order of Aerial Duel success rate.

Let's first look at the Premier League. This is all center halves who have equal or greater than the average amount of aerial duels (3), equal or greater than minutes played to Lovren (2035), equal or greater passing accuracy (88%) and equal or greater than Aerial Duel success rates (63,58%)

Code: [Select]
Name A.Duel/90 A.Duel %
Virgil van Dijk 5,41 72,22%
Dejan Lovren 4,56 63,58%

We got two, let's sign one of them. Oh wait... Okay so we need to broaden our search here. Let's try the other 3 leagues I have data for - La Liga, Bundesliga & Serie A

Code: [Select]
Name A.Duel/90 A.Duel %
Sergio Ramos 3,45 64,8%
Raúl Albiol 3,09 64,71%

Our center back problems are solved. All we need to do is sign Ramos or Raul Albiol who turns 33 when the season starts.

So it's not a big list. I'll try again being a bit loose with some of the rules. We will reduce it to 19 appearances - as in at least half a season of games. I'll reduce it to 2,7 Aerial Duels - this is the top 100 defenders on the list. And 85% passing accuracy - which is the top 100 again.

Code: [Select]
Name A.Duel/90 A.Duel %
Gary Cahill 4,11 75,21%
Virgil van Dijk 5,41 72,22%
Kostas Manolas 3,04 69,09%
Sokratis 3,15 67,48%
Ömer Toprak 3,66 66,67%
Chris Smalling 3,75 66,23%
Sergio Ramos 3,45 64,8%
Raúl Albiol 3,09 64,71%
Jonathan Tah 2,81 64,6%
Jan Vertonghen 3,26 64,2%
Dejan Lovren 4,56 63,58%

YES. We are close to finding our Lovren replacement. Now to filter out all the players who are older than Lovren, play for a club who wouldn't sell to us.

Code: [Select]
Name A.Duel/90 A.Duel %
Virgil van Dijk 5,41 72,22%
Kostas Manolas 3,04 69,09%
Ömer Toprak 3,66 66,67%
Jonathan Tah 2,81 64,6%
Dejan Lovren 4,56 63,58%

Shit that isn't a very long list now once again. But we have Omer Toprak, Tah & Manolas. Let's get scouting. Tah looks a big guy, slow on the turn and poor acceleration here. Not sure about that in our system. I can tell you Manolas & Tah make roughly the same amount of errors/90 as Lovren. All three get caught on the ball more in possession - which is a problem for a center back. They also give the ball away more in their own half - another problem. But they are all dribbled past less - although this could simply be because they are being isolated less 1-v-1 in more defensive systems who don't play as high a line.

But we have 3 names to check out. Given Toprak is 29 next week, and the strike rate at that age in terms of players adapting to the more physical and intense Premier League isn't great, I suspect he wouldn't be a viable target for the club. So you probably have two names to check out. Have at it!
« Last Edit: July 13, 2018, 05:27:26 pm by BabuYagu »
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Re: Dejan Lovren signs new long-term Liverpool contract
« Reply #2852 on: July 13, 2018, 05:19:40 pm »
I like Lovren, he has improved a lot since Klopp, and even more since VVD, but i still have some doubts about him - not saying we should sell or upgrade on him. WC is very different from the league, and i wouldn't use that competition as a barometer to rate or to not rate anyone particularly. 
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Re: Dejan Lovren signs new long-term Liverpool contract
« Reply #2853 on: July 13, 2018, 05:24:24 pm »
Lovren makes mistakes,just like every other defender on the planet.
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Re: Dejan Lovren signs new long-term Liverpool contract
« Reply #2854 on: July 13, 2018, 05:47:08 pm »
I think Lovren and a few others in our squad have suffered massively in the past few years due to a couple of really poor players in key positions. Our midfield has been a problem area for too long and finally Klopp has (hopefully) addressed it. The other is the goalkeeper and left back. Left back sorted, and VVD's inclusion has bolstered that area of the pitch massively. I think Lovren is perfectly sound with a solid partner beside him, and a solid goalkeeper. So, we need a solid goalkeeper, and that goes without saying. We've watched what a confident player Lovren is in this world cup because he's playing with players he's confident in.

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Re: Dejan Lovren signs new long-term Liverpool contract
« Reply #2855 on: July 13, 2018, 05:59:03 pm »
I like Lovren, he has improved a lot since Klopp, and even more since VVD, but i still have some doubts about him - not saying we should sell or upgrade on him. WC is very different from the league, and i wouldn't use that competition as a barometer to rate or to not rate anyone particularly.

Let's use the entire past season bar the 3,4 games where he was poor he had a very good season, especially in the final.

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Re: Dejan Lovren signs new long-term Liverpool contract
« Reply #2856 on: July 13, 2018, 06:02:54 pm »
I think Lovren and a few others in our squad have suffered massively in the past few years due to a couple of really poor players in key positions. Our midfield has been a problem area for too long and finally Klopp has (hopefully) addressed it. The other is the goalkeeper and left back. Left back sorted, and VVD's inclusion has bolstered that area of the pitch massively. I think Lovren is perfectly sound with a solid partner beside him, and a solid goalkeeper. So, we need a solid goalkeeper, and that goes without saying. We've watched what a confident player Lovren is in this world cup because he's playing with players he's confident in.
And that's something that was said after we bought him...that we bought the wrong Southampton defender because he needed someone strong next to him. And maybe that's true, and he has it now so it doesn't matter.

Offline BabuYagu

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Re: Dejan Lovren signs new long-term Liverpool contract
« Reply #2857 on: July 13, 2018, 06:03:39 pm »
I think Lovren and a few others in our squad have suffered massively in the past few years due to a couple of really poor players in key positions. Our midfield has been a problem area for too long and finally Klopp has (hopefully) addressed it. The other is the goalkeeper and left back. Left back sorted, and VVD's inclusion has bolstered that area of the pitch massively. I think Lovren is perfectly sound with a solid partner beside him, and a solid goalkeeper. So, we need a solid goalkeeper, and that goes without saying. We've watched what a confident player Lovren is in this world cup because he's playing with players he's confident in.
Subosic has made 2 errors (1 resulting in a goal) in just 5 games. Small sample of games and everything but that would probably be about average for a keeper over an entire season.

What Subosic is though, is extremely aggressive off his line and commands his box well. So I think a keeper who protects behind Lovren -  and I think all Lovrens worst moments are when the ball is better in behind him - is the most important thing for Lovren. A line keeper is probably the worst thing for him.
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Re: Dejan Lovren signs new long-term Liverpool contract
« Reply #2858 on: July 13, 2018, 06:32:18 pm »
Can't argue with your spot on reasoning, mate.
Don't take my word for it. Like I said, I talked to two friends of mine who study at the university that isn't there, because there's no town. Check it on Google maps. You'll basically see a 404 page error cunningly disguised as streets, houses and a river and stuff. Sly.
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Offline jepovic

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Re: Dejan Lovren signs new long-term Liverpool contract
« Reply #2859 on: July 13, 2018, 06:45:20 pm »
When Lovren came here the expectation, from the fans and himself, was basically that he would lead the back four and be generally awesome.  He tried to do everything, including dribbling out from the back. It was awful, possibly the worst CB I've seen starting many games for LFC, and it gave him a horrible reputation.

After a while, maybe a year, he started to find his role. He's focusing on his job, not leading the others. He's aggressive but not idiotic, and he's passing at a level that suits him (which is fine, but not Xabi Alonso). After that, I think he has basically played at a very high level - long before VVD arrived. However, his reputation still hasn't recovered.

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Re: Dejan Lovren signs new long-term Liverpool contract
« Reply #2860 on: July 13, 2018, 06:55:44 pm »
Croatia had a good World Cup. Not sure about Lovren having a good one. I wasn't convinced by his performance against England and he looked so stressed when defending set pieces and committing silly fouls along the way.

A good defender should be able to defend well independent of who he is partnered with. Hyypia being a great example. Whether it was Henchoz, Skrtl or Carragher, he delivers it as normal.

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Re: Dejan Lovren signs new long-term Liverpool contract
« Reply #2861 on: July 13, 2018, 06:56:38 pm »
Croatia had a good World Cup. Not sure about Lovren having a good one. I wasn't convinced by his performance against England and he looked so stressed when defending set pieces and committing silly fouls along the way.

You sure you had the right game on?

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Re: Dejan Lovren signs new long-term Liverpool contract
« Reply #2862 on: July 13, 2018, 06:59:36 pm »
Croatia had a good World Cup. Not sure about Lovren having a good one. I wasn't convinced by his performance against England and he looked so stressed when defending set pieces and committing silly fouls along the way.

A good defender should be able to defend well independent of who he is partnered with. Hyypia being a great example. Whether it was Henchoz, Skrtl or Carragher, he delivers it as normal.

Hyppia wasn't just a good defender, though. He was a GREAT defender. And he also played in systems that suited his physical abilities.

Lovren is a "good" defender, and hasn't always played in systems that complimented his physical ability.
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Re: Dejan Lovren signs new long-term Liverpool contract
« Reply #2863 on: July 13, 2018, 07:58:25 pm »
FSW - not Fat Spanish Waiter, but Fake Saxon Waiter.

Actually isn't that also a song by Radiohead? I'll bet Klopp's a fan. Cheeky bastard.
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Re: Dejan Lovren signs new long-term Liverpool contract
« Reply #2864 on: July 13, 2018, 08:00:43 pm »
Croatia had a good World Cup. Not sure about Lovren having a good one. I wasn't convinced by his performance against England and he looked so stressed when defending set pieces and committing silly fouls along the way.

This, ladies and gentleman, is someone who cannot form their own opinions about football and instead just likes to repeat what the commentators and pundits have been telling him.

I jest.
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Re: Dejan Lovren signs new long-term Liverpool contract
« Reply #2865 on: July 13, 2018, 08:01:50 pm »
FSW - not Fat Spanish Waiter, but Fake Saxon Waiter.

Actually isn't that also a song by Radiohead? I'll bet Klopp's a fan. Cheeky bastard.

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Re: Dejan Lovren signs new long-term Liverpool contract
« Reply #2866 on: July 13, 2018, 08:11:09 pm »
The blue plastic fluttering flags
For the fake plastic Everton fans
Who just grumble and moan
Excellent!
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Re: Dejan Lovren signs new long-term Liverpool contract
« Reply #2867 on: July 13, 2018, 08:24:14 pm »
Haha, I'm glad it's not escaped everyone's notice that the most recent roundabout argument from AL essentially amounted to "our central defender once lost a header to Lukaku".

Certainly a perfectionist!

Nothing to do with Lovren losing a header it happens. The debate was about whether other managers were able to target Lovren. Mourinho for me clearly targeted him in the 2-1 defeat at Old Trafford in March.

Mourinho had a game plan of stopping us from pressing. They bypassed the midfield and from goal kicks they overloaded the right side of our defence. It wasn't one header. In the 6th minute De Gea low skimming goal kick Lukaku out muscles Lovren and wins the flick on we clear, 14th minute De Gea low skimming goal kick Lukaka out muscles Lovren Rashford goal, 24th minute De Gea low skimming goal kick Lukaku out muscles Lovren Rashford scores game over.

So clearly Mourinho targeted Lovren and it won them the game.

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Re: Dejan Lovren signs new long-term Liverpool contract
« Reply #2868 on: July 13, 2018, 08:40:35 pm »
Only Liverpool player in the wc final.
One of two (?) players in the world to play both CL and wc final this year.
One of the best defenders at the tournament.
But yeah, let's not forget that one time he lost an aerial against Lukaku

Some of us just want to see Liverpool win the league mate.  And stuff like Lovren vs Lukaku is why it's not likely to happen.

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Re: Dejan Lovren signs new long-term Liverpool contract
« Reply #2869 on: July 13, 2018, 08:52:06 pm »
Some of us just want to see Liverpool win the league mate.  And stuff like Lovren vs Lukaku is why it's not likely to happen.

I would think we all want to see that. Their point is that it's not relevant to the current discussion about Lovren, it happened months ago.

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Re: Dejan Lovren signs new long-term Liverpool contract
« Reply #2870 on: July 13, 2018, 08:53:13 pm »
Some of us just want to see Liverpool win the league mate.  And stuff like Lovren vs Lukaku is why it's not likely to happen.

Lovren absolutely owned Lukaku every time they played against each other up until the last game. Him losing a header to a very good headerer of the ball isn’t going to be the reason we don’t win the title.
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Re: Dejan Lovren signs new long-term Liverpool contract
« Reply #2871 on: July 13, 2018, 09:04:35 pm »
This, ladies and gentleman, is someone who cannot form their own opinions about football and instead just likes to repeat what the commentators and pundits have been telling him.

I jest.

It is called difference of opinion.

I am not blaming Lovren for who he is.

Put VVD and Hyypia in any system and they would play great no matter the opposition. Lovren isn't at that level.

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Re: Dejan Lovren signs new long-term Liverpool contract
« Reply #2872 on: July 13, 2018, 09:10:52 pm »
Lovren absolutely owned Lukaku every time they played against each other up until the last game. Him losing a header to a very good headerer of the ball isn’t going to be the reason we don’t win the title.

As I illustrated earlier it wasn't losing a header it was Mourinho identifying a weakness and exploiting it ruthlessly. Within 24 minutes United had overloaded our right side and were 2-0 up. That is all it takes at the highest level.

For me Lovren has a problem judging the flight of the ball when he has to react and move and read the trajectory. He did it 3 times against United, he did it against Spurs when he charged forward and the ball went over his head and he did it against Roma first leg when he misjudged the flight and Dzeko scored.

As I have said all along Lovren is a good centre back and has had a very good World Cup. The problem I have is people ignoring his deficiencies and trying to elevate him to being one of the best centre backs in the World.
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Re: Dejan Lovren signs new long-term Liverpool contract
« Reply #2873 on: July 13, 2018, 09:23:54 pm »
Lovren absolutely owned Lukaku every time they played against each other up until the last game. Him losing a header to a very good headerer of the ball isn’t going to be the reason we don’t win the title.

The needlessly dropped points there and against Spurs and Everton will go a good way to throwing away our title chances (just off the top of my head).  Especially when we have a team racking up 100 points.

If there was a season like when Leicester won it with 70-odd points then I'd fancy our chances at the title with Lovren as a mainstay, but unfortunately I can't see anything near to that happening.

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Re: Dejan Lovren signs new long-term Liverpool contract
« Reply #2874 on: July 13, 2018, 09:27:38 pm »
I would think we all want to see that. Their point is that it's not relevant to the current discussion about Lovren, it happened months ago.

Forget just months ago, it's been the mistakes that have been happening for years that worry me more.  It doesn't look like he's turning a corner to me at least.

Having said that it's looking like Lovren will at least get another season, so hopefully he has a stormer on Sunday that will see his confidence really shoot up.

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Re: Dejan Lovren signs new long-term Liverpool contract
« Reply #2875 on: July 13, 2018, 09:28:59 pm »
The needlessly dropped points there and against Spurs and Everton will go a good way to throwing away our title chances (just off the top of my head).  Especially when we have a team racking up 100 points.

If there was a season like when Leicester won it with 70-odd points then I'd fancy our chances at the title with Lovren as a mainstay, but unfortunately I can't see anything near to that happening.

That is it exactly. The bar has been raised and for us to challenge we have to be almost perfect. That means we can't make do with just one elite centre back because the opposition will just target Lovren the way Mourinho did and will just let Lovren have the ball when they drop off.
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Re: Dejan Lovren signs new long-term Liverpool contract
« Reply #2876 on: July 13, 2018, 09:43:47 pm »
If we cannot lose a single game to win the league then it is useless to watch the league. Lovren was targeted in that particular game. You don't get a Lukaku in every other game. He lost 2 duels there. Defenders do not win every aerial duel. The system accounts for those instances to have cover. If anything then it was a collective failure. He made horrendous mistakes just like the best defenders are prone to make once in a while. I just hate the way some folks create a false narrative. If you can show me a great defender who would fit in with our aggressive pressing game, good on the ball and available, it would be great. Otherwise these people remind me of a character named Iago in some fancy play I saw.
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Re: Dejan Lovren signs new long-term Liverpool contract
« Reply #2877 on: July 13, 2018, 10:02:00 pm »
If we cannot lose a single game to win the league then it is useless to watch the league. Lovren was targeted in that particular game. You don't get a Lukaku in every other game. He lost 2 duels there. Defenders do not win every aerial duel. The system accounts for those instances to have cover. If anything then it was a collective failure. He made horrendous mistakes just like the best defenders are prone to make once in a while. I just hate the way some folks create a false narrative. If you can show me a great defender who would fit in with our aggressive pressing game, good on the ball and available, it would be great. Otherwise these people remind me of a character named Iago in some fancy play I saw.

You gave the straw man a hell of a thrashing there mate.  Out of interest, what do you think Liverpool need to address to finally finish top of the pile again? 

The situation is that we were 25 points away from winning the league last year.  My take is that the goalkeeper and centreback positions offer the most room for improvement, and after that a bit more creativity from midfield.

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Re: Dejan Lovren signs new long-term Liverpool contract
« Reply #2878 on: July 13, 2018, 10:34:09 pm »
So we have 3 key problems with Lovren.
1. He isn't good enough on the ball
2. He misses too many games with injury
3. He losses aerial duels

That seems fair. Those certainly look like three problems we don't want in our center halves. On the plus side, these things are all very measurable. So I will run a search to find Center Halves who played more league minutes than Lovren (he missed too much because of injury), have a better passing accuracy (he isn't good enough on the ball), have 3+ Aerial Duels per 90 (not passive) in order of Aerial Duel success rate.

Let's first look at the Premier League. This is all center halves who have equal or greater than the average amount of aerial duels (3), equal or greater than minutes played to Lovren (2035), equal or greater passing accuracy (88%) and equal or greater than Aerial Duel success rates (63,58%)

Code: [Select]
Name A.Duel/90 A.Duel %
Virgil van Dijk 5,41 72,22%
Dejan Lovren 4,56 63,58%

Except you are cherry picking your argument Babu.

Firstly how does looking at passing accuracy define how good on the ball a centre back is. Against a team that drops off taking no risks and just passing it square means you can have insane levels of pass accuracy. Not so long ago the best passer of a ball in Europe if you only take accuracy into account was Leon Britton. I ran a search for likkle Leon but unfortunately despite him having an insane pass accuracy Barca bizarrely stuck with Xavi and Iniesta.


We got two, let's sign one of them. Oh wait... Okay so we need to broaden our search here. Let's try the other 3 leagues I have data for - La Liga, Bundesliga & Serie A

Code: [Select]
Name A.Duel/90 A.Duel %
Sergio Ramos 3,45 64,8%
Raúl Albiol 3,09 64,71%

Our center back problems are solved. All we need to do is sign Ramos or Raul Albiol who turns 33 when the season starts.

So it's not a big list. I'll try again being a bit loose with some of the rules. We will reduce it to 19 appearances - as in at least half a season of games. I'll reduce it to 2,7 Aerial Duels - this is the top 100 defenders on the list. And 85% passing accuracy - which is the top 100 again.

Code: [Select]
Name A.Duel/90 A.Duel %
Gary Cahill 4,11 75,21%
Virgil van Dijk 5,41 72,22%
Kostas Manolas 3,04 69,09%
Sokratis 3,15 67,48%
Ömer Toprak 3,66 66,67%
Chris Smalling 3,75 66,23%
Sergio Ramos 3,45 64,8%
Raúl Albiol 3,09 64,71%
Jonathan Tah 2,81 64,6%
Jan Vertonghen 3,26 64,2%
Dejan Lovren 4,56 63,58%

YES. We are close to finding our Lovren replacement. Now to filter out all the players who are older than Lovren, play for a club who wouldn't sell to us.

Code: [Select]
Name A.Duel/90 A.Duel %
Virgil van Dijk 5,41 72,22%
Kostas Manolas 3,04 69,09%
Ömer Toprak 3,66 66,67%
Jonathan Tah 2,81 64,6%
Dejan Lovren 4,56 63,58%

Shit that isn't a very long list now once again. But we have Omer Toprak, Tah & Manolas. Let's get scouting. Tah looks a big guy, slow on the turn and poor acceleration here. Not sure about that in our system. I can tell you Manolas & Tah make roughly the same amount of errors/90 as Lovren. All three get caught on the ball more in possession - which is a problem for a center back. They also give the ball away more in their own half - another problem. But they are all dribbled past less - although this could simply be because they are being isolated less 1-v-1 in more defensive systems who don't play as high a line.

But we have 3 names to check out. Given Toprak is 29 next week, and the strike rate at that age in terms of players adapting to the more physical and intense Premier League isn't great, I suspect he wouldn't be a viable target for the club. So you probably have two names to check out. Have at it!

Err no Babu stop running a search and actually look at the qualities that are required. You would be horrified by the NUMBERS posted by City's defenders. Passing errors, mistakes leading to chances and any number of metrics will show them to be substandard. You have crucified Stones for example but the reality is that numbers don't really matter, whilst you and your brethern our looking at XA and XG and extrapolating data top managers are looking for an actual ability to play the game.
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Re: Dejan Lovren signs new long-term Liverpool contract
« Reply #2879 on: July 13, 2018, 10:49:59 pm »
Except you are cherry picking your argument Babu.

I think you missed that I wasn't being entirely serious there Al. As I mentioned before, these 3 arguments are all ones we had in the past. They were circular then. They will be circular now. Thus why repeat it? If you want my answers to the points you are raised, you should know them already when I answered them the first time. The above was just me busting your balls a little.

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