Author Topic: Anyone have any experience with youth academies?  (Read 1041 times)

Offline thaddeus

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Anyone have any experience with youth academies?
« on: March 20, 2023, 03:14:34 pm »
I was wondering if anyone had any experience with football youth academies in England?  At its simplest whether it's good for the kid (assuming, like the majority, they don't end up becoming a professional footballer).

A bit of context, my eldest has been invited to join the Nottingham Forest academy in their under 9s until the end of the school year.  He's a decent footballer - more of an athlete than anything, in truth - and whilst I don't want to write him off at 8-years old he's not an obvious candidate for professional footballer!!  He plays for one of the teams in our town and loves it and everything to do with football.  He doesn't know about the invitation.

As he's generally in a good place with school and after school activities I don't want to rock the boat too much.  At the same time I don't want to deny him the opportunity even if it just means he becomes a bit better at football and then gets released.  I'd like to think Forest handle these things well but I wouldn't be surprised if they don't!

Edit: it's not clear from the invitation what tier it is within their academy.  I can safely say it's not their core match squad and I don't know how many further teams they operate.

Offline Ziltoid

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Re: Anyone have any experience with youth academies?
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2023, 03:44:14 pm »
Spanning the years 2015-2017

My lad was at Barnsley from under 9 and was released when they tend to cull at under 12's.  He really enjoyed it, was just the travel from Halifax 3 times a week plus the game at the weekend that was hard work.  Jack was a pretty smart lad so school work etc wasn't really an issue.

I looked at the academy team this year and there's 2 lads that he was with at Under -11 that have made the under 18's - out of about 20. 

I'd go for it and get some proper coaching.  At that age they normally have a couple of teams (7 or 8 in each team) and they might rotate.  They tend to have a 1st/2nd team by under 11's.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2023, 03:46:28 pm by Ziltoid »

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Re: Anyone have any experience with youth academies?
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2023, 06:08:53 pm »
If he's the type of young player who is the standout best in his local team, there is some logic in allowing him to continue there being the star and have him build up his confidence to the level where if he was to move to an academy later on the line, he won't shrivel under the pressure or be moved to much by the level of talent there because he is so used to being the main player week in week out at a lower level.

Confidence plays a huge part in players making it, you have some players who have all the ability but just shrivel when there nerves get to them and play within themselves because they haven't had their mental side nurtured to the point where they can battle the nerves and not feel too disheartened by making mistakes and getting criticised.

A lot of players i played with in younger days actually benefited from being star players at lower levels while their peers accelerated to higher levels at a younger age, they were allowed to cultivate the mentality at lower levels of being the star player better than everyone else so when they would make a mistake, because they were conceivably better than the rest of their peers in the team, seldom would anything really knock their confidence, if they dribble too much, ok, if they misplace a pass ok, this stood them in good stead by the time they were older and ready to make the step up to the academy, they played football uninhibited free and expressed themselves, while those who made the step up faster by that time were over-coached, less raw but with less scope to be brilliant also.

Despite this though i would say because of the age your young lad is at, 8 years of age, there is much benefits in him playing for an academy at that age because the coaching and tactical knowledge he would gain from being there from such a young age would put him above 95% of other players his age, some people aren't even playing football seriously to around 10-11 so he would already be far ahead in terms of understanding of the game.

To counter this though i would say still try to let him play as much football as he can outside of the academy, whether it be in the playground, at the local park for the schools, even though academies frown upon this a lot of the times, the balance gained from playing street football while also being coached by some of the best coaches in the region is a lot of the times the best one, if hes playing for an academy where he may not be the top 20-30 players in his age group, you still have to nurture his self confidence and self belief, where he believes he belongs, and playing football with his peers outside of academy who aren't on his level per se, helps this, belief and confidence is half the game, workrate is the other half.

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Re: Anyone have any experience with youth academies?
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2023, 06:13:48 pm »
I'd encourage him mate if nothing else he'll get some decent coaching that'll help him playing at local level and if he doesn't like it or doesn't want to then he stops going.

Offline thaddeus

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Re: Anyone have any experience with youth academies?
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2023, 12:17:27 pm »
Spanning the years 2015-2017

My lad was at Barnsley from under 9 and was released when they tend to cull at under 12's.  He really enjoyed it, was just the travel from Halifax 3 times a week plus the game at the weekend that was hard work.  Jack was a pretty smart lad so school work etc wasn't really an issue.

I looked at the academy team this year and there's 2 lads that he was with at Under -11 that have made the under 18's - out of about 20. 

I'd go for it and get some proper coaching.  At that age they normally have a couple of teams (7 or 8 in each team) and they might rotate.  They tend to have a 1st/2nd team by under 11's.
Thanks Ziltoid.  You can tell me to mind my own business but how did your lad take it when he was released at age 11/12?  I am probably overthinking it as kids are really resilient but it feels like something that would leave a void.

Offline thaddeus

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Re: Anyone have any experience with youth academies?
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2023, 12:24:19 pm »
If he's the type of young player who is the standout best in his local team, there is some logic in allowing him to continue there being the star and have him build up his confidence to the level where if he was to move to an academy later on the line, he won't shrivel under the pressure or be moved to much by the level of talent there because he is so used to being the main player week in week out at a lower level.

Confidence plays a huge part in players making it, you have some players who have all the ability but just shrivel when there nerves get to them and play within themselves because they haven't had their mental side nurtured to the point where they can battle the nerves and not feel too disheartened by making mistakes and getting criticised.

A lot of players i played with in younger days actually benefited from being star players at lower levels while their peers accelerated to higher levels at a younger age, they were allowed to cultivate the mentality at lower levels of being the star player better than everyone else so when they would make a mistake, because they were conceivably better than the rest of their peers in the team, seldom would anything really knock their confidence, if they dribble too much, ok, if they misplace a pass ok, this stood them in good stead by the time they were older and ready to make the step up to the academy, they played football uninhibited free and expressed themselves, while those who made the step up faster by that time were over-coached, less raw but with less scope to be brilliant also.

Despite this though i would say because of the age your young lad is at, 8 years of age, there is much benefits in him playing for an academy at that age because the coaching and tactical knowledge he would gain from being there from such a young age would put him above 95% of other players his age, some people aren't even playing football seriously to around 10-11 so he would already be far ahead in terms of understanding of the game.

To counter this though i would say still try to let him play as much football as he can outside of the academy, whether it be in the playground, at the local park for the schools, even though academies frown upon this a lot of the times, the balance gained from playing street football while also being coached by some of the best coaches in the region is a lot of the times the best one, if hes playing for an academy where he may not be the top 20-30 players in his age group, you still have to nurture his self confidence and self belief, where he believes he belongs, and playing football with his peers outside of academy who aren't on his level per se, helps this, belief and confidence is half the game, workrate is the other half.
Thanks for the really thought through response.

One of my best mates at school was a bit of footballing maverick but joined Leicester City's youth set-up and had a lot of that coached out of him.  He got released and never really got that bit of sparkle back.  That was 90s though so probably unfair to compare the set-up then to now.

My son isn't really that type and his weaknesses are certainly on the technical side compared to some of the players he comes up against even in grassroots.  He'd definitely benefit from some proper coaching in that respect.  I don't think he's his team's best player but he certainly does think that and you're right that such confidence makes a big difference in matches ;D

Offline thaddeus

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Re: Anyone have any experience with youth academies?
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2023, 12:28:25 pm »
I'd encourage him mate if nothing else he'll get some decent coaching that'll help him playing at local level and if he doesn't like it or doesn't want to then he stops going.
Thanks Debs.  I hope you're not implying that me belting the ball into the clouds and shouting "control it!" isn't decent coaching  ;)

I am coming round to the idea of letting him know about it and giving him the choice.  As you say, free coaching and also mixing with some better players.  It would mean dropping Cubs and rearranging swimming so I'm not even certain he'll want to do it anyway.

Offline FlashGordon

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Re: Anyone have any experience with youth academies?
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2023, 12:35:13 pm »
If he's someone who's more of an athlete than a technical footballer then it would probably be a huge benefit for him to work with better players and coaches, should really help improve his technique and he can receive some good coaching showing him how to use his athleticism more proficiently.
So bloody what? If you watch football to be absolutely miserable then go watch cricket.

Offline LovelyCushionedHeader

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Re: Anyone have any experience with youth academies?
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2023, 01:06:14 pm »
On the other side of things, if I grew up and found out that I had a chance of joining an academy when I was 8 but my parents said no without ever telling me I don't think I could ever forgive them, regardless of their reasoning ;D
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Offline Dazzer23

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Re: Anyone have any experience with youth academies?
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2023, 01:36:35 pm »
I was in the same boat when my two (twins) were about 7/8. I actually spoke to a youth coach of a Football League club who was an acquaintance of my Dads.

He was quite categorical - At that age, if they're happy where they are, just leave them. They will develop more if they're happy than if they're not, and if they are good enough, there is plenty of time for them to get picked up at some point in the future.

My own caveat on that would be, if he is completely head and shoulders above everyone else who he is playing with and against, that he is in danger of not developing, then obviously he would benefit from being in a more challenging environment.

   

Offline CaseRed

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Re: Anyone have any experience with youth academies?
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2023, 01:53:04 pm »
On the other side of things, if I grew up and found out that I had a chance of joining an academy when I was 8 but my parents said no without ever telling me I don't think I could ever forgive them, regardless of their reasoning ;D

I had this when i was a kid. Was invited by Millwall, Southampton and West Ham but my parents said no without telling me. Always been a what if!

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Re: Anyone have any experience with youth academies?
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2023, 02:02:38 pm »
I had this when i was a kid. Was invited by Millwall, Southampton and West Ham but my parents said no without telling me. Always been a what if!

Such a shame. You could have been the next Paul Allen.

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Re: Anyone have any experience with youth academies?
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2023, 02:24:52 pm »
Thanks Debs.  I hope you're not implying that me belting the ball into the clouds and shouting "control it!" isn't decent coaching  ;)

I am coming round to the idea of letting him know about it and giving him the choice.  As you say, free coaching and also mixing with some better players.  It would mean dropping Cubs and rearranging swimming so I'm not even certain he'll want to do it anyway.

He'll probably surprise you with how he handles the decision mate.

Offline deano2727

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Re: Anyone have any experience with youth academies?
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2023, 05:57:36 pm »
On the other side of things, if I grew up and found out that I had a chance of joining an academy when I was 8 but my parents said no without ever telling me I don't think I could ever forgive them, regardless of their reasoning ;D

This is how I see it. Also, he is young enough that he can easily get back into focusing on education if it doesn't look like he will make it up the levels.

I think you need to sit him down, explain things to him and go with what he wants. I, personally, think it would be bordering criminal to not let him even try for what is likely his dream. That said, I say that as someone without kids, but I'm certain this would be my thinking if it were my own.

Best of luck to your lad.

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Re: Anyone have any experience with youth academies?
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2023, 06:11:20 pm »
Such a shame. You could have been the next Paul Allen.

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