Topic: Proud to be Woke

[FlashGordon]

Ugh. The term 'woke' began being widely used in progressive circles about seven or eight years ago, generally by people of colour, to designate someone who was onboard with anti-racist thinking, predominantly against what they viewed as racism within establishments.

Then, as they're wont to do, white progressives ruined the term by taking it and labelling themselves 'woke' while extending it to a variety of other areas spanning things like LGBTQ rights - something that was immediately cringe even before it became widely used, as it is every time white progressives co-opt black slang.

By the time it began hitting the mainstream, people were using it as a positive term for anyone they regarded as genuinely progressive, as opposed to others (nazis, centrist scum, etc). The problem is that this often included people with opinions that either seemed ridiculous on sight or that were anti-wide swathes of the population, which made the word an easy go-to for opponents.

Nowadays, it's basically become a blanket term used by middle aged men for extremist progressive dogma anything that challenges their warped, simplistic world view . It's similar to the fate of 'Karen', a term originally used by Black Twitter that got absorbed into the mainstream and gradually stripped of all meaning.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

The bit I struggle with is why so many people now feel the need to "identify" as this that or the other.

I feel the need to identify myself because I'm opposed to racists, xenophobes, far-right dicked, nazis and the like. I suppose that if you don't care about anything then there is no need to oppose anything.

I do quite a lot of reading (Probably hard to believe with my shit posts on here )  and all that reading is setting off several alarm bells. As my grandads were both involved with World War II and my great-grandads before them in previous wars, I was fascinated with the way the story began and the background events and politics of the situation. I have read an awful lot of the buildup and especially the domino effect that can scale with the situation across different ethno- and geographical areas.

I find a lot of the language and actions of not just the UK government at this time to be alarming, but the actions of others acters in the local, regional and global spheres. Russia is in an actual war with some rumblings that this might expand, China is flexing its muscles, overriding directives about their new islands and building forces up against Taiwan and potentially the US who are responding in kind. Australia and a few other nations are going on alert, North Korea is in the background, there are more rumblings in Pakistan and India and a raising of tensions and we have the UK which is seemingly on a similar course to other right-wing countries that have fallen to this in Europe over the last few decades.

I get that people saying going on Marches or protesting or making your view heard or even reacting on Social Media is futile, but is silence better?

[Red Ol]

The bit I struggle with is why so many people now feel the need to "identify" as this that or the other.

Because if you don’t hold your hand up to say that you’re against injustice (taking Andy’s example) then it might be assumed you’re happy with it.  It’s becoming more and more important to identify with good causes because social media is giving rise to more and more abhorrent voices who need shutting down

[jambutty]

I'd like to see Yank whites referred to as Euro American to illustrate that they're just another immigrant community.

[Billy The Kid]

I feel the need to identify myself because I'm opposed to racists, xenophobes, far-right dicked, nazis and the like. I suppose that if you don't care about anything then there is no need to oppose anything.

I'm opposed to lots of things, like say... shitting with the cubicle door open, picking ones nose in public, talking when ones mouth is full, not covering ones face when sneezing, I could rattle off loads of things that I feel deep personal disapproval towards. The thing is though, I don't "identify" as someone who's anti these things. Why the fuck would I? To me, not indulging in shitty behaviours is basic adulting. In the same way that not being a racist xenophobic dick-head is pretty standard stuff that doesn't exactly deserve a medal

Just because there's a few helpless cases out there doesn't mean you need to go around "identifying" as some sort of woke ying to their blind yang. That's just fucking weird mate.

   

[FlashGordon]

I'm opposed to lots of things, like say... shitting with the cubicle door open, picking ones nose in public, talking when ones mouth is full, not covering ones face when sneezing, I could rattle off loads of things that I feel deep personal disapproval towards. The thing is though, I don't "identify" as someone who's anti these things. Why the fuck would I? To me, not indulging in shitty behaviours is basic adulting. In the same way that not being a racist xenophobic dick-head is pretty standard stuff that doesn't exactly deserve a medal

Just because there's a few helpless cases out there doesn't mean you need to go around "identifying" as some sort of woke ying to their blind yang. That's just fucking weird mate.

 

If everyone had that same mindset then the few helpless cases would be emboldened to influence a few more helpless cases and then we'd be in real trouble.

Being annoyed at somebody who likes to define themselves by sticking up for the downtrodden in life is a bit strange.

The world would be a lot better place if these helpless cases went around the place picking their noses in public instead of being racist, xenophobic, misogynistic etc.

["21C or 70F?" SchizoidWeatherMan!]

I'm opposed to lots of things, like say... shitting with the cubicle door open, picking ones nose in public, talking when ones mouth is full, not covering ones face when sneezing, I could rattle off loads of things that I feel deep personal disapproval towards. The thing is though, I don't "identify" as someone who's anti these things. Why the fuck would I? To me, not indulging in shitty behaviours is basic adulting. In the same way that not being a racist xenophobic dick-head is pretty standard stuff that doesn't exactly deserve a medal

Just because there's a few helpless cases out there doesn't mean you need to go around "identifying" as some sort of woke ying to their blind yang. That's just fucking weird mate.

 

 

[Andy @ Allerton!]

I'm opposed to lots of things, like say... shitting with the cubicle door open, picking ones nose in public, talking when ones mouth is full, not covering ones face when sneezing, I could rattle off loads of things that I feel deep personal disapproval towards. The thing is though, I don't "identify" as someone who's anti these things. Why the fuck would I? To me, not indulging in shitty behaviours is basic adulting. In the same way that not being a racist xenophobic dick-head is pretty standard stuff that doesn't exactly deserve a medal

Just because there's a few helpless cases out there doesn't mean you need to go around "identifying" as some sort of woke ying to their blind yang. That's just fucking weird mate.

   

A few? Right ok mate. I'd say it's pretty much half the country. You see it every single day on the news and in the media and social media. You see it all over Europe and how many countries now have fallen to right-wing bullshit. I think there's a good chance it'll happen here. We're already much of that way down that path.

As you said, you don't care and that's fine. You don't have to. Luckily most people don't give a shiny shite either and will express surprise if something does eventually tip us over the edge. "Blimey! Never saw that coming! If only someone had told us.."

I imagine that many people in many countries woke up one day and went "Hang on, are we the baddies? HOW did that happen"

[carling]

I think the word is too loaded now, it's hard to see how it can come across in a way that isn't disparaging.

I guess it 'might' have some use with film or tv when casting directors make decisions based on race or gender.  Like with the black Anne Boleyn or the House of Dragon creators who said from the start they wanted to swap the races of the book characters.  But even with clear examples I doubt it can be used widely which is the whole point of a word!

[A Red Abroad]

I need to dig out my "WOKE AS F*CK!" T-shirt.

[Libertine]

Presenter asks right wing conservative to define "woke".

It does not go well.

https://twitter.com/vanguard_pod/status/1635749284355211264

[Dr. Beaker]

Presenter asks right wing conservative to define "woke".

It does not go well.

https://twitter.com/vanguard_pod/status/1635749284355211264

fuckin ell, it's not difficult.

[HomesickRed]

The problem with Woke, isn't the laudable quest for social justice for all that I, and hopefully most humans wholeheartedly back -- it is that it has become associated with extreme versions of identity politics.
If you don't fall into line 100% and 100% of the time you run the risk of being cancelled, potentially losing your reputation and job for perceived, and often minor indiscretions even where no offence is intended. No judge, no jury and more importantly, no debate.

Ironically, tolerance is micro-managed to become intolerance of other people's views and to shut down any debate in even the greyest of areas. We end up treading on eggshells. Society is becoming a better place in many ways, but it has become a minefield out there.

[Yorkykopite]

Because if you don’t hold your hand up to say that you’re against injustice (taking Andy’s example) then it might be assumed you’re happy with it.  It’s becoming more and more important to identify with good causes because social media is giving rise to more and more abhorrent voices who need shutting down

There are better reasons for standing up against injustice than people assuming you - as an individual - might be happy with the status quo. And there are better reasons for standing up against injustice than "shutting down abhorrent voices". In fact standing up against injustice doesn't have to involve either of these things (ie letting people know who you are, or censorship)

But in any case I don't think you're answering the question that Billy the Kid posed. He was wondering why people feel the need to identify AS, not why they identify WITH. It's a good question.

[HomesickRed]

Indeed.
Social media has played a role in polarising opinions and painting many issues as black and white.
Hence what started off as well-intentioned 'woke' has become almost a parody of itself that cancels people in the court of popular opinion.
Unfortunately the court of popular opinion is not necessarily the law and what views are classified as "abhorrent" are moveable and subject to whatever the strongest lobby group of the day says they are.
Even Fiona Bruce has been cancelled by Refuge! lol

[Boston always unofficial]

I don't think i've ever heard someone in real life describe themselves as woke? Always thought it was more driven by right-wing fuckheads on twitter etc that need to punch down at anyone and everyone that doesn't follow their shitty values.Sadly these useless republican fucks are now enacting laws to keep said people down.

[Bioluminescence]

Indeed.
Social media has played a role in polarising opinions and painting many issues as black and white.
Hence what started off as well-intentioned 'woke' has become almost a parody of itself that cancels people in the court of popular opinion.
Unfortunately the court of popular opinion is not necessarily the law and what views are classified as "abhorrent" are moveable and subject to whatever the strongest lobby group of the day says they are.
Even Fiona Bruce has been cancelled by Refuge! lol

I think the weirdest thing I saw was the disintegration of a knitting community. You'd expect knitting to be a fairly safe space but someone said something "wrong" and it all fell apart. The problem is that people aren't allowed to make mistakes and in many cases the worst is automatically assumed of someone who happens to disagree with you on one topic or another. Everything seems to escalate so quickly these days.

Woke in its original meaning is a good thing but it's now another term that's used as an insult to discredit progressive causes and people. I'd be surprised if it's ever reclaimed.

[Dr. Beaker]

I think that it actually may backfire though. I'm not as up on it as you younger folk, but it seemed to me that when that right wing nutter girl failed embarrassingly to be able to define 'woke' (after bandying the term about) on the youtube video (above), it struck me that she probably could have defined it, but she realised that she would have made herself look such a twat by being opposed to it.

[KillieRed]

It’s like being called a liberal or a progressive as an insult. Look those words up in the dictionary and you should feel foolish.

[filopastry]

Indeed.
Social media has played a role in polarising opinions and painting many issues as black and white.
Hence what started off as well-intentioned 'woke' has become almost a parody of itself that cancels people in the court of popular opinion.
Unfortunately the court of popular opinion is not necessarily the law and what views are classified as "abhorrent" are moveable and subject to whatever the strongest lobby group of the day says they are.
Even Fiona Bruce has been cancelled by Refuge! lol

I think that is pretty close to my issues with "wokeism" an obsession with identity politics to the exclusion of anything else.

[ScottScott]

If it's woke to be aware of all of the many injustices going on and wanting the world to be a better place, then yes, I'm woke and fucking proud to be

If people think being woke is an insult, then it says more about the person using it as such. It's like being called Antifa. No fucking shit, of course I'm anti fascism, who the fuck should be pro fascism!

[Schmarn]

As I've always said, if only Conservatives were as passionate about opposing racism, sexism and homophobia as they are about hating political correctness, then we wouldn't need political correctness or wokery. Unfortunately because the c*nts have proven incapable of self-regulating for the past 200 years, right-minded people have to speak up.

[Bastion Of Invincibility]

It's making society a better place but has made TV almost unwatchable.

[carling]

It's making society a better place but has made TV almost unwatchable.

In a nutshell.

[Andy]

Indeed.
Social media has played a role in polarising opinions and painting many issues as black and white.
Hence what started off as well-intentioned 'woke' has become almost a parody of itself that cancels people in the court of popular opinion.
Unfortunately the court of popular opinion is not necessarily the law and what views are classified as "abhorrent" are moveable and subject to whatever the strongest lobby group of the day says they are.
Even Fiona Bruce has been cancelled by Refuge! lol

Woke is an undefined word like Brexit, and a lot of right wing people use it as a negative when they think others are being over-sensitve or disagreeing with their point of view.

Look at Braverman: anyone who disagrees with her crazy Rwanda and immigration policies is automatically defined as one of the wokeratti.

To me, what a lot of people define as woke is often just taking into account other people's feelings. I was called woke at work because I said it a good idea that the MCC renamed the 'batsmen' board due to women also playing cricket. Very low-stakes argument which I really didn't care about, but my colleagues got very 'triggered' by it. Amazing how sensitive the people are who think they aren't woke.

It's just a new way of saying "political correctness has gone mad". If not being racist/homophobic/sexist etc means telly seems less fun, then I'm afraid it is a sacrifice worth making.

Are you really surprised that Refuge don't want to be associated with Bruce when she appears to defend a wife-beater? If that's woke, then doesn't it cover 99% of us??

[filopastry]

Like I say I think 95% of it is pretty positive, but on social media you will find people who look at everything through the lens of identity politics, and are pretty obsessive about it. They don't do their cause any good at all, much thought they get much backslapping from their own echo chamber.

Agree on Fiona Bruce, I'm surprised it took Refuge that long to bin her.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

There are better reasons for standing up against injustice than people assuming you - as an individual - might be happy with the status quo. And there are better reasons for standing up against injustice than "shutting down abhorrent voices". In fact standing up against injustice doesn't have to involve either of these things (ie letting people know who you are, or censorship)

But in any case I don't think you're answering the question that Billy the Kid posed. He was wondering why people feel the need to identify AS, not why they identify WITH. It's a good question.

That would be great if anyone did. That was the point I'm making. No one gives a fuck. If we were wiped out by an asteroid tomorrow has the Universe really lost anything?

[Andy @ Allerton!]

If it's woke to be aware of all of the many injustices going on and wanting the world to be a better place, then yes, I'm woke and fucking proud to be

If people think being woke is an insult, then it says more about the person using it as such. It's like being called Antifa. No fucking shit, of course I'm anti fascism, who the fuck should be pro fascism!

That's where I'm coming from too mate. But too many dickheads from all sides just want to make it about them.

You'd think that everyone would just think "Yeah. That's great. Let's all agree all this shit is wrong and try and get rid of it."

And we'd both be wrong.

This fucking world.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

I think that it actually may backfire though. I'm not as up on it as you younger folk, but it seemed to me that when that right wing nutter girl failed embarrassingly to be able to define 'woke' (after bandying the term about) on the youtube video (above), it struck me that she probably could have defined it, but she realised that she would have made herself look such a twat by being opposed to it.

An excellent point. The media should go after the people 'opposed to it' and list everything that's in it and say are you opposed to ... that....

And if they deny they are opposed to each thing, they should finish with 'Oh. er. Ok. so you are Woke then?'


But the absolute wankers that are in the media in this country would never do that. These knobends are fucking worse than the Tories. I remember in the 80s and 90s the media used to take the piss out of and stand up to these c*nts. Media nowdays are all fucking shithouses. Fucking worse than the fucking politicians.

[Dr. Beaker]

That would be great if anyone did. That was the point I'm making. No one gives a fuck. If we were wiped out by an asteroid tomorrow has the Universe really lost anything?

Dalglish.

[darragh85]

I wish people would ignore labels.

Woke is just another one used to label and categorise people based on certain beliefs. It's done to create  a perception of difference which in turns incites hatred

This notion that certain beliefs are only compatible with others is utter bullshit.

[jambutty]

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/Sma7s2UBH80" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/Sma7s2UBH80</a>

[Billy The Kid]

For me, being woke, and wokeism in general, is a manifestation of the unhealthy relationship mankind has developed with digital technology

The rise of social media and the gradual disappearance of middle ground means that even the most innocuous issues are now massively polarised 

It also doesn't help that "mainstream media" is now packaged and presented in a manner that pits people of opposing views against each other

"I'm woke and I'm proud". No mate, you're just a dick head who needs to lay off "content" and go out for a walk

[Andy]

For me, being woke, and wokeism in general, is a manifestation of the unhealthy relationship mankind has developed with digital technology

The rise of social media and the gradual disappearance of middle ground means that even the most innocuous issues are now massively polarised 

It also doesn't help that "mainstream media" is now packaged and presented in a manner that pits people of opposing views against each other

"I'm woke and I'm proud". No mate, you're just a dick head who needs to lay off "content" and go out for a walk

Sorry but that is bollocks. Or am I being too woke by recognising your feelings and therefore apologising?

"Woke" comes from the States originally, where minorities used the word to recognise people that were consccious of race issues and the needs of others.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woke

People - generally on the right wing - have now co-opted the word to critisize other people that they think are being over-sensitive or disagree with their point of view. Those that use the word as a negative are surprisingly sensitive about things themselves.

Social media and outlets like the Daily Fail definitely contribute to the confrontational aspects of politics and opinions, but it's just name-calling which is hardly new.

[lobsterboy]