Topic: Thoughts on Shamima Begum?

[I've been a good boy]

I know she was 15 when she left so she could have been brainwashed but to this day, she still expresses no remorse or regret. Worse is that she actually thinks killings and beheadings are allowed in Islam and she justifies the actions of the Manchester bomber. Oh not to forget she says we should feel sorry for her because of what she's been through. Fuck her and fuck the people she's associated with. Nothing Islamic about them except their names.

[Iska]

Appears she will have her citizenship revoked.

https://twitter.com/bbcbreaking/status/1097934269069094917?s=21

Did’t the law change a few years back to make this posible??

It’s possible, but I’d assume only if you have another nationality to fall back on.  The UK can’t go making people stateless, but if there’s another country she can look to for protection then that doesn’t arise.

[killer-heels]

Why wont she stand trial in Syria?  If I commit a crime in a foreign I would stand trial there.

Im not suggesting we strip her of her citizenship, but if we did and thus break international law, whats the punishment?

How many ISIS members who come back actually face trial and go to Prison. According to Farrage on LBC the % who get punished is quite low. However its not like Farrage isn't a lying c*nt


If she arrives back where will she live. Hopefully at her scumbag parents house. Id hate to think she would jump the cue for a council house.

Best case scenario is she doesn't make it back.

Why would they do that? Firstly the kurds in and close to that area have their own problems. If I were them I would send them and all their UK citizens back unless they specifically need information from those individuals. That is the UK’s problem.

Also its not like the Syrian government and UK are on friendly terms.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Why wont she stand trial in Syria?  If I commit a crime in a foreign I would stand trial there.

Im not suggesting we strip her of her citizenship, but if we did and thus break international law, whats the punishment?

How many ISIS members who come back actually face trial and go to Prison. According to Farrage on LBC the % who get punished is quite low. However its not like Farrage isn't a lying c*nt


If she arrives back where will she live. Hopefully at her scumbag parents house. Id hate to think she would jump the cue for a council house.

Best case scenario is she doesn't make it back.

What crime has she committed ?

[Graeme]

Id hate to think she would jump the cue for a council house.

A homeless single mother with a realistic probability of fearing for the safety of herself and child? I don't think there would be a higher priority case for a council house. They'll be stood at the airport waiting for her with the keys.

[planet-terror]

Sad state of affairs all round.
I do think countries should take care of their own but fully understand the depth of feeling on this one. It's a shame. She was a victim when she left. Huge efforts were made to find her and the others. Is she still not a victim now.
Perfect nationalistic story to brew up in these brexit times

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[killer-heels]

I know she was 15 when she left so she could have been brainwashed but to this day, she still expresses no remorse or regret. Worse is that she actually thinks killings and beheadings are allowed in Islam and she justifies the actions of the Manchester bomber. Oh not to forget she says we should feel sorry for her because of what she's been through. Fuck her and fuck the people she's associated with. Nothing Islamic about them except their names.

One of those interviews by Sky News was just after she had given birth where she clearly looked knackered and a bit zoned out. It was a fucking disgrace that they ran that interview. But then i wouldnt be surprised by the media.

[Lycan]

I'm somewhat divided myself. Every 15 year old does stupid things...although usually not this extreme. But her still thinking the Manchester bombing was justified makes me think she's a massive twat who should be left to rot.

I've always had sympathy for the Irish people. I have always thought and always will think the whole of Ireland should belong to them. That doesn't mean to say that when I was 15 years old I had the urge to take up arms and join the IRA. Why? Because even at that age I knew the IRA was a terrorist organisation who had murdered many, many innocent people. So her age is no excuse at all.

She should never be allowed to set foot in this country again. And she should be grateful we don't put people like her in front of a firing squad anymore.

[vagabond]

Horrific precedent set with this.

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

Appears she will have her citizenship revoked.

https://twitter.com/bbcbreaking/status/1097934269069094917?s=21

Did’t the law change a few years back to make this posible??

This is an extremely dangerous precedent.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

She should never be allowed to set foot in this country again. And she should be grateful we don't put people like her in front of a firing squad anymore.

So you are happy for us to make a British born UK citizen stateless ?


People are losing their fucking minds.

[killer-heels]

This is an extremely dangerous precedent.

Pure Javid. Lets play to the base and then spend every home office resource trying to back up my point.

I reckon he will lose this fight but legally it will be interesting to see how it plays out. I am going to go on a hunch that he has done it knowing he will lose but then being able to wash his hands of it and blame Gauke and the Justice system.

[planet-terror]

I've always had sympathy for the Irish people. I have always thought and always will think the whole of Ireland should belong to them. That doesn't mean to say that when I was 15 years old I had the urge to take up arms and join the IRA. Why? Because even at that age I knew the IRA was a terrorist organisation who had murdered many, many innocent people. So her age is no excuse at all.

She should never be allowed to set foot in this country again. And she should be grateful we don't put people like her in front of a firing squad anymore.

The Isis propaganda machine was a totally different animal to how the Ira recruited people.

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[killer-heels]

So you are happy for us to make a British born UK citizen stateless ?


People are losing their fucking minds.

I know. I said at the start there was no debate and clearly I was wrong. But really there is no debate unlessthis home office punt crashes and burns.

[Iska]

This is an extremely dangerous precedent.

It actually seems to have been done hundreds of times for ISIS fighters, and for some others as well.

[Lycan]

So you are happy for us to make a British born UK citizen stateless ?


People are losing their fucking minds.

I couldn't give a fucking shit about her quite frankly. She gave up her right to be classed as a UK citizen when she aligned herself with those murderous c*nts. She has shown absolutely no remorse for what she did either. Fuck her.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

I couldn't give a fucking shit about her quite frankly. She gave up her right to be classed as a UK citizen when she aligned herself with those murderous c*nts. She has shown absolutely no remorse for what she did either. Fuck her.

Remarkable how easily you ignored the point.

[Lycan]

The Isis propaganda machine was a totally different animal to how the Ira recruited people.

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I really don't care mate. At 15 you know what is right and what is wrong. She'll have known about all the barbaric acts ISIS committed and yet she still decided that's the life she wanted.

[killer-heels]

It actually seems to have been done hundreds of times for ISIS fighters, and for some others as well.

That case it was proven he was abusing that child before he got given British citizenship, which would have affected the application decision. That was a grey area.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

It actually seems to have been done hundreds of times for ISIS fighters, and for some others as well.

How many of those were born and bred British citizens ?

[Lycan]

Remarkable how easily you ignored the point.

Not really. I'm just sick of people making excuses for a girl who knew damn well what she was doing.

Anyway, fuck this. I'm off to watch the mighty Reds beat Bayern.

[Elmo!]

Why wont she stand trial in Syria?  If I commit a crime in a foreign I would stand trial there.

Im not suggesting we strip her of her citizenship, but if we did and thus break international law, whats the punishment?

How many ISIS members who come back actually face trial and go to Prison. According to Farrage on LBC the % who get punished is quite low. However its not like Farrage isn't a lying c*nt


If she arrives back where will she live. Hopefully at her scumbag parents house. Id hate to think she would jump the cue for a council house.

Best case scenario is she doesn't make it back.

No developed country is going to extradite anyone to Syria with their human rights record and chances of a fair trial.

[planet-terror]

I really don't care mate. At 15 you know what is right and what is wrong. She'll have known about all the barbaric acts ISIS committed and yet she still decided that's the life she wanted.

I can't disagree there. I'm not sure of her mental capacity or if  there are issues there that might mitigate her. Would be interested to hear more

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[vagabond]

I really don't care mate. At 15 you know what is right and what is wrong. She'll have known about all the barbaric acts ISIS committed and yet she still decided that's the life she wanted.

It is incredibly easy to groom a 15 year old. It will then typically take decades for that person to work through the trauma and admit to the brainwashing. She isn't going to have any remorse this close to the event without having a mental breakdown.

[Iska]

That case it was proven he was abusing that child before he got given British citizenship, which would have affected the application decision. That was a grey area.

From the same article about three of the Rochdale abusers, so it’s not a grey area I don’t think, it’s a statutory power in the 2006 Act: This was not the case with the Rochdale three who had their citizenship revoked on the grounds that "deprivation is conducive to the public good because the person, while having that citizenship status, has conducted him or herself in a manner which is seriously prejudicial to the vital interests of the United Kingdom, any of the Islands, or any British overseas territory."

How many of those were born and bred British citizens ?

There don’t seem to be figures or case histories, it seems it doesn’t get publicised unless it’s challenged.  to be honest I’m just trying to piece it together as fast as I can from public sources, I don’t have special expertise in the question.

[Lycan]

It is incredibly easy to groom a 15 year old. It will then typically take decades for that person to work through the trauma and admit to the brainwashing. She isn't going to have any remorse this close to the event without having a mental breakdown.

Really, really not interested in the excuses you're making for her.

[vagabond]

Really, really not interested in the excuses you're making for her.

God forbid you ever have a 15 year old on the internet then.

[Lycan]

God forbid you ever have a 15 year old on the internet then.

My two have used the internet for years. One is now at Uni. The other is a nurse. Neither have ever had the urge to join any murderous organisation.

[TepidT2O]

It’s possible, but I’d assume only if you have another nationality to fall back on.  The UK can’t go making people stateless, but if there’s another country she can look to for protection then that doesn’t arise.

Yes, that’s a very good point.

Making her essentially stateless ... and where then?

[planet-terror]

Yes, that’s a very good point.

Making her essentially stateless ... and where then?

Olympics?

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[TepidT2O]

God forbid you ever have a 15 year old on the internet then.

I think that’s too simple though.

Her family are complicit as are people who deliberately radicalized her.

The question is, to what extent does she now bear responsibility?
And that’s almost impossible to answer I reckon

[oldfordie]

Thats not quite how many rights work though.

You may well be right, am certainly not arguing the legal side and am sure she will appeal through the ECHR but were giving opinions on how how we feel about her being let back into the UK.
Am not usually so hard but these are exceptional circumstances, she adored IS, she went out to join a terrorist organisation sworn to annihilate us, am sorry but why should we trust her. why take the risk.

[TepidT2O]

It does seem she has dual nationality ...

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

It does seem she has dual nationality ...

Where?

[TepidT2O]

Where?

Don’t know !

[Kenny's Jacket]

What crime has she committed ?

Interesting question.  Under British law being a member of ISIS will have penalties Im pretty sure.  Under Syrian law, who the fuck knows. I was going to raise that myself but I got distacted by the match so left it out

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

Don’t know !

Are you basing it on this

Mr Javid told MPs on Monday he would not "hesitate to prevent" the return of Britons who travelled to Syria to join IS.

He said more than 100 dual nationals have already lost their UK citizenship after travelling in support of terrorist groups.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47299907

[AndyMuller]

She doesn't deserve to be let back in frankly, fuck her.

[Clayton Bigsby]

I don't like her being stripped at all. Throw her in prison, take baby away but this is too much for me

[Iska]

It does seem she has dual nationality ...

It wouldn’t be particularly surprising for someone to also have parents’ or grandparents’ nationality - there’s enough lucky sods on the brexit thread getting Irish passports after all.

Fwiw I’ve looked at the last fifteen reported cases on the power in question and in only one do the deprivees appear to have been born here (three of them) but I guess these cases are still inherently more likely to involve those who haven’t had it from birth.