Author Topic: Elections in Europe  (Read 165274 times)

Offline Libertine

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017
« Reply #160 on: March 15, 2017, 04:08:32 pm »
Is there any clues as to what a high turnout could indicate?

Could be bad for PVV (fascists).

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Offline Libertine

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017
« Reply #161 on: March 15, 2017, 04:10:35 pm »
Proportional representation eh, everyone has a stake

True. There's no perfect electoral system - every one has its strengths and weaknesses.

However, there's a lot to be said for a system where you know your vote will count and you can vote for whoever most closely represents your politics. Even if it means allowing a platform for scum for Wilders.

Offline Cliff Bastin

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017
« Reply #162 on: March 15, 2017, 04:16:31 pm »
Is there any clues as to what a high turnout could indicate?
Erdogan handed it to him. I'd be surprised if he didn't win.

Offline cloggypop

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017
« Reply #163 on: March 15, 2017, 04:45:13 pm »
Erdogan handed it to him. I'd be surprised if he didn't win.
Rutte has been getting very good press for his handling of it. The VVD aren't exactly pro-immigration either. I think they will gain a few votes there.

I'll be very surprised if Wilders wins.

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017
« Reply #164 on: March 15, 2017, 04:59:27 pm »
Indeed. There's even an abstainers party for people who choose to cast a no vote for anyone. If they get seats they are promising not to vote on anything.

 ;D love it

Offline killer-heels

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017
« Reply #165 on: March 15, 2017, 08:12:58 pm »
Earliest exit polls has VVD on 31 seats, PVV second biggest on 19, equal to CDA and D66.

Offline Libertine

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017
« Reply #166 on: March 15, 2017, 08:13:50 pm »
Exit polls are in - Big win for VVD, shocker for Wilders  ;D great results for Liberals and Greens....


Offline killer-heels

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017
« Reply #167 on: March 15, 2017, 08:16:56 pm »
UITSLAG

;D

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017
« Reply #168 on: March 15, 2017, 08:24:02 pm »
UITSLAG

;D

Was my first thought, too. Dutch is just the funniest language in the world.

Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017
« Reply #169 on: March 15, 2017, 09:01:28 pm »
I've just read on Twitter that Wilders party got more seats in 2010 (24) than the exit polls predict he's got tonight.

Offline Libertine

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017
« Reply #170 on: March 15, 2017, 09:13:30 pm »
@EuropeElects
Netherlands: UKIP ally VNL (both EFDD) fails to enter parliament (Ipsos exit poll). #Netherlands #DutchElections

 ;D

Surely it's harder to fail to get seats than to win them in the Dutch system. Must have caught electoral loser disease from UKIP.

Offline Giono

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017
« Reply #171 on: March 15, 2017, 09:13:46 pm »
True. There's no perfect electoral system - every one has its strengths and weaknesses.

However, there's a lot to be said for a system where you know your vote will count and you can vote for whoever most closely represents your politics. Even if it means allowing a platform for scum for Wilders.

Better to give them a platform to actually deal with them out in the open and early than have them fester as a vocal minority in a large party and get their agenda through the back door. Like the GOP in the US.
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Offline cloggypop

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017
« Reply #172 on: March 15, 2017, 09:15:59 pm »
Better to give them a platform to actually deal with them out in the open and early than have them fester as a vocal minority in a large party and get their agenda through the back door. Like the GOP in the US.
Like UKIP in the UK

Offline B0151?

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017
« Reply #173 on: March 15, 2017, 09:19:31 pm »
What are the D66 about?

I think I googled them and they were centre left, just wondering if they had any particular platforms?

Offline Libertine

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017
« Reply #174 on: March 15, 2017, 09:22:52 pm »
Media here (UK) still going on about Wilders, when the main stories are the victory for VVD, the rise in Green and Liberal D66 support and the complete collapse of Labour (PvdA)



Offline Giono

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017
« Reply #175 on: March 15, 2017, 09:23:23 pm »
Like UKIP in the UK

There are many examples. Proportional representation or Alternative Ballot both allow people to vote for what they want.

It looks like the Greens will quadruple their seats from what I have read. That's a great statement there, compliments of proportional representation.

In other countries like the US, the Greens take votes from their natural allies and reward their enemies. And they get a a government that denies climate change.
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Offline killer-heels

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017
« Reply #176 on: March 15, 2017, 09:24:09 pm »
If Macron (or even Fillon) wins in France and if anything Germany to go to the left even if they reject Merkel's party then the UK will be in massive issues. If Clinton would have won the Presidency then the UK would be completely cut adrift. May is lucky Trump won.

Offline killer-heels

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017
« Reply #177 on: March 15, 2017, 09:26:33 pm »
Media here (UK) still going on about Wilders, when the main stories are the victory for VVD, the rise in Green and Liberal D66 support and the complete collapse of Labour (PvdA)




Yep. The Guardian really like to cry about stuff.

Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017
« Reply #178 on: March 15, 2017, 09:27:37 pm »
Media here (UK) still going on about Wilders, when the main stories are the victory for VVD, the rise in Green and Liberal D66 support and the complete collapse of Labour (PvdA)

Why did this happen?

Offline killer-heels

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017
« Reply #179 on: March 15, 2017, 09:28:33 pm »

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017
« Reply #180 on: March 15, 2017, 09:29:59 pm »

Offline Trev20

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017
« Reply #181 on: March 15, 2017, 09:31:02 pm »
If Macron (or even Fillon) wins in France and if anything Germany to go to the left even if they reject Merkel's party then the UK will be in massive issues. If Clinton would have won the Presidency then the UK would be completely cut adrift. May is lucky Trump won.
Schultz has an opportunity - the German left is making a comeback.

Offline killer-heels

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017
« Reply #182 on: March 15, 2017, 09:32:42 pm »
Schultz has an opportunity - the German left is making a comeback.

Indeed. Its only the French elections we have to watch but in Germany its either Merkel or the centre left so thats pretty much positive for the rest of the world. Could have a very united Europe again.

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017
« Reply #183 on: March 15, 2017, 09:35:01 pm »
UITSLAG

;D

That's what I said to my software engineer girlfriend when she cheated on me.

Offline cloggypop

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017
« Reply #184 on: March 15, 2017, 09:35:36 pm »
Why did this happen?
They moved too far from the left.

Offline Trev20

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017
« Reply #185 on: March 15, 2017, 09:36:27 pm »
Indeed. Its only the French elections we have to watch but in Germany its either Merkel or the centre left so thats pretty much positive for the rest of the world. Could have a very united Europe again.
We need a Mr Macron in the UK  ;D

Very little chance Le Pen wins a second round runoff if she's joined by Macron.

Offline Johnny B. Goode

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017
« Reply #186 on: March 15, 2017, 09:39:47 pm »
Why did this happen?
They were (well, are) in coalition with VVD. They basically did a Lib Dems.
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Offline cloggypop

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017
« Reply #187 on: March 15, 2017, 09:40:59 pm »


What are the D66 about?

I think I googled them and they were centre left, just wondering if they had any particular platforms?

They are the equivalent of the Lib Dems I guess. I'd put them as centrist myself. They describe themselves as social liberals and are to the left with some stuff but definitely on the right on some things like supporting business over workers on ending contracts. I haven't really noticed them coming out with anything new to win over voters, I think they are just a safeish choice for people moving from other parties.

Offline cloggypop

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017
« Reply #188 on: March 15, 2017, 09:42:05 pm »
That's what I said to my software engineer girlfriend when she cheated on me.
Did she not clean up her SLAGROOM?

Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017
« Reply #189 on: March 15, 2017, 09:46:05 pm »
They moved too far from the left.

They were (well, are) in coalition with VVD. They basically did a Lib Dems.

Thanks.

Offline Libertine

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Offline cloggypop

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017
« Reply #191 on: March 15, 2017, 10:08:14 pm »
They were (well, are) in coalition with VVD. They basically did a Lib Dems.
It's always a coalition though. Always. Looks like at least 4 parties this time.

Offline Johnny B. Goode

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017
« Reply #192 on: March 15, 2017, 10:28:27 pm »
It's always a coalition though. Always. Looks like at least 4 parties this time.
Indeed, and they had been in a purple coalition together in the past, but never as the junior partner. This time they apparently got the fall for the unpopular decisions, whereas the VVD took the credit for the successes. Plus they seem to have moved way too far from their own position.
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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017
« Reply #193 on: March 15, 2017, 10:47:10 pm »
Was my first thought, too. Dutch is just the funniest language in the world.

Klingon mixed with Welsh...my missus is Dutch and I tell her , Dutch is the language of love...if your Worf living in Aberystwyth

On a more serious note the media in UK  has a lot to answer for in the amount of time its given to Wilders.

Offline killer-heels

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017
« Reply #194 on: March 15, 2017, 10:53:58 pm »
Klingon mixed with Welsh...my missus is Dutch and I tell her , Dutch is the language of love...if your Worf living in Aberystwyth

On a more serious note the media in UK  has a lot to answer for in the amount of time its given to Wilders.

Totally agree. I like Newsnight but you have had that twat of a reporter walking around the Netherlands and trying to sound clever and illustrating a massive change in the tolerance levels and then the Greens come joint second.

Offline Giono

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017
« Reply #195 on: March 15, 2017, 10:56:50 pm »

This English-language Dutch news site is live-blogging the election results.


http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2017/03/live-blog-dutch-election-2017-the-results-as-they-come-in/
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Offline Johnny B. Goode

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017
« Reply #196 on: March 15, 2017, 11:02:02 pm »
Totally agree. I like Newsnight but you have had that twat of a reporter walking around the Netherlands and trying to sound clever and illustrating a massive change in the tolerance levels and then the Greens come joint second.
PVV actually got more seats (and votes, obviously) in 2010. They seem to have improved on 2012 but 6 seats worse than their highest tally.

Just goes to show that some are trying too hard to create a certain narrative. They've established some very dodgy links between Brexit and Trump and now want to apply that to the whole world.
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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017
« Reply #197 on: March 15, 2017, 11:06:14 pm »
On a more serious note the media in UK  has a lot to answer for in the amount of time its given to Wilders.

It's a joke. The Guardian live feed just announced "PVV wins in Rotterdam". I know it's the FPTP bug, but surely they can tell the difference between just about being the largest party and winning something. Wilders is quite simply NOT the story tonight, he's been rendered irrelevant. Well done the Dutch.

Oh, and GL is the largest party in Amsterdam, with PVV sixth. :)

Offline killer-heels

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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017
« Reply #198 on: March 15, 2017, 11:06:39 pm »
PVV actually got more seats (and votes, obviously) in 2010. They seem to have improved on 2012 but 6 seats worse than their highest tally.

Just goes to show that some are trying too hard to create a certain narrative. They've established some very dodgy links between Brexit and Trump and now want to apply that to the whole world.

Far right parties have always existed in Europe but certainly they have tried to create a narrative, mainly to get viewers and ramp up tensions.

On the flip side though hopefully governments do get spooked and try to ensure governments work for everyone. Even if Macron wins I still think Europe has to look at things like immigration and look to strike a suitable balance between openness and controls.

Also, make sure the banks dont fuck things up again.


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Re: Elections in Europe - 2017
« Reply #199 on: March 16, 2017, 06:47:29 am »
On a more serious note the media in UK  has a lot to answer for in the amount of time its given to Wilders.

And UKIP. IF you look how shit they have performed in elections over the life of the party, the Monster Raving Looney Party deserved more coverage. Brexit came about because the soft gets like Gove and Johnson thought it was their time to shine (And yes I know Mythbusters proved you can polish a turd) and hitched their wagons to the extreme right of the Tory Party
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