Topic: Joël Matip (Job Joël André Matip)

[rawcusk8]

Hiding under the hat but we see you Joel. Stay fit lad

[deFacto please, you bastards]

One more session come on Joel lad

[Lone Star Red]

Like a new signing - The Echo, probably

[Zoomers]

My life is getting better and better (in Klopp)

[Samie]

[PeterTheRed ...]

https://twitter.com/JamesPearceLFC/status/1350154058414362625?

[deFacto please, you bastards]

https://twitter.com/JamesPearceLFC/status/1350154058414362625?

For those of us who can't open twitter at work, what does it say? 

[FlashGordon]

For those of us who can't open twitter at work, what does it say? 

Basically it says he's back in training and will Klopp risk him after two sessions?

The answer he is looking for is yes, yes he will.

[Hazell]

Basically it says he's back in training and will Klopp risk him after two sessions?

The answer he is looking for is yes, yes he will.

He's done it before I think with Matip and he's been fine so can't see why he wouldn't if he's completely back from his injury, especially as we need him back.

[newterp]

For those of us who can't open twitter at work, what does it say? 

Donald Trump has signed up for RAWK!!!!!

[Ratboy3G]

Back in training

Hallelujah!

[FlashGordon]

He's done it before I think with Matip and he's been fine so can't see why he wouldn't if he's completely back from his injury, especially as we need him back.

Yes he has definitely thrown him in to games before. I think at this stage with his injury record you just have to play him whenever he is able for 70 minutes even. You could give him a three month break and he would still pick up a knock within a couple of fixtures. Unfortunately that's just how his body is.

[Naby Lad]

Yes he has definitely thrown him in to games before. I think at this stage with his injury record you just have to play him whenever he is able for 70 minutes even. You could give him a three month break and he would still pick up a knock within a couple of fixtures. Unfortunately that's just how his body is.

He literally got injured first game after lockdown last season because someone stood on his toe. Out for 3 months after it.

[TepidT2O]

The question is, did he train today too?

[CraigDS]

The question is, did he train today too?

Pictures of him training posted 10hrs ago on Facebook so I assume so.

[Eeyore]

The question is, did he train today too?

You sound like a pushy parent. Complain when he doesn't train and then when he does train you expect him to train every day. Give the lad a chance. It is like being expected to keep your bedroom tidy the day after you have already tidied it. 

[rushyman]

You sound like a pushy parent. Complain when he doesn't train and then when he does train you expect him to train every day. Give the lad a chance. It is like being expected to keep your bedroom tidy the day after you have already tidied it. 

I think he may be asking because klopps minimum requirement is for him to come through 2 training sessions

[JordanTremenderson]

Matip is so good by the way.

Van Dijk takes all the plaudits but Matip is elite in his own right.

We talk about Hyypia, Carragher (some say Agger but I can't agree, he got bullied too easily) being great defenders.  I'd love to see how they would have coped in our system, where our defenders have to play in a high line, be very good in possession and our full back both bomb forward so our CBs have to deal in one vs one situations a lot more.

Benitez and Houiller protected our CBs.  Hyypia for example was great at what he did.  Amazing in the air, calm, decent on the ball, but I'd fear for him in our current system. 

But our CBs now have to be so much more complete. 

Matip is complete & an incredible piece of business.  Just wish he stayed fit more. 

[Eeyore]

Matip is so good by the way.

Van Dijk takes all the plaudits but Matip is elite in his own right.

We talk about Hyypia, Carragher (some say Agger but I can't agree, he got bullied too easily) being great defenders.  I'd love to see how they would have coped in our system, where our defenders have to play in a high line, be very good in possession and our full back both bomb forward so our CBs have to deal in one vs one situations a lot more.

Benitez and Houiller protected our CBs.  Hyypia for example was great at what he did.  Amazing in the air, calm, decent on the ball, but I'd fear for him in our current system. 

But our CBs now have to be so much more complete. 

Matip is complete & an incredible piece of business.  Just wish he stayed fit more. 

Matip is miles away from elite.

He isn't elite because players get judged by what they do on the pitch. Matip has played 93 League games in four and a half seasons. That is pretty abject.

[JordanTremenderson]

Matip is miles away from elite.

He isn't elite because players get judged by what they do on the pitch. Matip has played 93 League games in four and a half seasons. That is pretty abject.

Well I'm judging him when he is on the pitch and I think he's elite when he is. 

Obviously his fitness is holding him back.  He was vital in our CL success.

[rushyman]

As someone’s already said he has to play if ready

Can’t afford to wait. Rather have him for this than the next 3/4 games after

[El Lobo]

Matip is miles away from elite.

He isn't elite because players get judged by what they do on the pitch. Matip has played 93 League games in four and a half seasons. That is pretty abject.

You’ve gone and contradicted yourself there Al

[PeterTheRed ...]

Matip is miles away from elite.

He isn't elite because players get judged by what they do on the pitch. Matip has played 93 League games in four and a half seasons. That is pretty abject.

When fit, Matip is one of the top central defenders in the league.

[number 168]

Matip is so good by the way.

Van Dijk takes all the plaudits but Matip is elite in his own right.

We talk about Hyypia, Carragher (some say Agger but I can't agree, he got bullied too easily) being great defenders.  I'd love to see how they would have coped in our system, where our defenders have to play in a high line, be very good in possession and our full back both bomb forward so our CBs have to deal in one vs one situations a lot more.

Benitez and Houiller protected our CBs.  Hyypia for example was great at what he did.  Amazing in the air, calm, decent on the ball, but I'd fear for him in our current system. 

But our CBs now have to be so much more complete. 

Matip is complete & an incredible piece of business.  Just wish he stayed fit more.

"some say Agger but I can't agree, he got bullied too easily" by whom, he was a strong bugger?

[classycarra]

Matip is miles away from elite.

He isn't elite because players get judged by what they do on the pitch. Matip has played 93 League games in four and a half seasons. That is pretty abject.

What he's done on the pitch, including man of the match performances in the run up and final of the champions league has been great. I think you haven't spotted your contradiction though.

But on those appearances. Kompany played 59 games in his last four seasons. 84 if you go to 5 seasons. Do you think his teams manager and supporters think he's abject?

[CraigDS]

"some say Agger but I can't agree, he got bullied too easily" by whom, he was a strong bugger?

Agreed. It was only when his knees went that he could get bullied as he just didn’t have it in him, but before then he was great.

He’d have been fine in this side, his pace pre-injuries was as good as Matips and his ability on the ball was fantastic.

[Knickers]

I think Matip's passing is underrated by commentators. He doesn't hit as many big diagonals as Van Dijk, but his line-splitting passes are just as effective.

[JordanTremenderson]

"some say Agger but I can't agree, he got bullied too easily" by whom, he was a strong bugger?

Nearly every big player. He was weak.

Love how much he loved LFC. Classy on the ball, good tackler. But was bullied often.

He’s in the Skrtel category for me. Good not great.

[CraigDS]

Nearly every big player. He was weak.

Love how much he loved LFC. Classy on the ball, good tackler. But was bullied often.

He’s in the Skrtel category for me. Good not great.

Absolute rubbish this. You’re remembering the finished Agger not the one before his injuries.

[jckliew]

Is he or is he not?

[Bobinhood]

When fit, Matip is one of the top central defenders in the league.

Top 5 in the world. Amazing player.

[JordanTremenderson]

Absolute rubbish this. You’re remembering the finished Agger not the one before his injuries.

Remembering both.

We don’t have to agree. I remember it happening sadly. Drogba, Benteke, Lukaku etc etc

Always thought he was overrated.

Matip is vastly superior for me. Probably best focussing on him.

[Naby Lad]

Remembering both.

We don’t have to agree. I remember it happening sadly. Drogba, Benteke, Lukaku etc etc

Always thought he was overrated.

Matip is vastly superior for me. Probably best focussing on him.

Lukaku and Benteke weren’t even in the league when prime Agger was operating.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Quality wise, Matip is an elite defender. He's not durable, but he's an elite defender in terms of ability and skill.

[CraigDS]

Remembering both.

We don’t have to agree. I remember it happening sadly. Drogba, Benteke, Lukaku etc etc

Always thought he was overrated.

Matip is vastly superior for me. Probably best focussing on him.

Lukaku was 13-15yrs old and Benteke was 16-18 when Agger was in his prime.

So you’ve just proved my point you’re remembering injured Agger and not prime Agger.

[Eeyore]

What he's done on the pitch, including man of the match performances in the run up and final of the champions league has been great. I think you haven't spotted your contradiction though.

But on those appearances. Kompany played 59 games in his last four seasons. 84 if you go to 5 seasons. Do you think his teams manager and supporters think he's abject?

If you want to be an elite footballer then it is about performing week in week out. It is about consistency, it is about being a go to player. It is not about performing well every 2nd or 3rd game, when you happen to be fit. You look at the elite the Ronaldo's and the Messi's and a huge part of being one of the elite is being practically indestructible.

Look at how many games the likes of Mane or Salah miss for us.

As for Kompany, he goes in the Ledley King category, brilliant but fragile. The thing is in their peak both of them were automatic picks for their respective teams. Matip has never been an automatic pick. VVD is the automatic pick then you have the likes of Gomez and latterly Lovren.

Hopefully Matip is fit because he is a great option at the moment but let's not pretend he is the next incarnation of Beckenbauer.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Lukaku and Benteke weren’t even in the league when prime Agger was operating.

Yeah but apart from that 

[LFCobsessive]

If you want to be an elite footballer then it is about performing week in week out. It is about consistency, it is about being a go to player. It is not about performing well every 2nd or 3rd game, when you happen to be fit. You look at the elite the Ronaldo's and the Messi's and a huge part of being one of the elite is being practically indestructible.

Look at how many games the likes of Mane or Salah miss for us.

As for Kompany, he goes in the Ledley King category, brilliant but fragile. The thing is in their peak both of them were automatic picks for their respective teams. Matip has never been an automatic pick. VVD is the automatic pick then you have the likes of Gomez and latterly Lovren.

Hopefully Matip is fit because he is a great option at the moment but let's not pretend he is the next incarnation of Beckenbauer.

The real Ronaldo was injured a lot, was he not elite?

[Bobinhood]

the only reason gomez edges matip is because hes much younger and thus the future, and one of his skill sets is unusual high end raw speed so we can play a higher line uniquely when hes paired with vvd. But Matip's just as good, he sees the game, dribbles, passes and commands the air just as well or better than Joe. they are both top 5 in the world just slightly different in style. 

I assume that lovren thing was a rhetorical flourish of some kind.            cough

Also elite players generally denotes a players level of play as opposed to speaking of  indispensable players, who are generally ever present and hugely important to team chemistry and overall  function.  Matip is Elite but hes not indispensable because hes injury prone so you cant allow him to be indispensable, you need another plan.

If player is elite AND indispensable then hes a Star player. Which level you referred to as elite for purposes of diminishing Matip because the fucker keeps getting hurt and becoming useless and its very annoying. But just be patient because he won us a Champions League pretty much.

Ok theres gonna be a test later.
   

[classycarra]

As for Kompany, he goes in the Ledley King category, brilliant but fragile. The thing is in their peak both of them were automatic picks for their respective teams. Matip has never been an automatic pick. VVD is the automatic pick then you have the likes of Gomez and latterly Lovren.

He was an automatic pic for the last 2/3rds of 2018/19 - in fact he probably performed better than VVD did from January up to the MOTM performance in Madrid for my money.

You mentioned part of being elite is being a 'go to' player - who has Klopp gone too when playing our Everton/City/United rivals this season? Even if he's barely trained, he's been the 'go to' pick.

Hopefully Matip is fit because he is a great option at the moment but let's not pretend he is the next incarnation of Beckenbauer.

You sort of lose the right to claim the high ground, warning against hyperbole, when you started this conversation saying Matip is 'miles from elite' and then using 'pretty abject'