Topic: Round Table: Crystal Palace 3 Liverpool 3

[No666]

Some of you lot are keeping me sane. Or an approximation of.

[ANFIELDGATES]

He's right. Good teams always contain players who show initiative and who are sensitive to the ebbs and flows of a game. Good managers are leaders who leave room for the actual players on the pitch to show that initiative. Rodgers isn't an autocrat. He doesn't micro-manage in ways that some coaches do. It's a way of working that - allied with other stuff he does on the training ground - has made Liverpool brilliant to watch and potential League Champions. I think he was right to imply the players didn't do well in the last fifteen minutes. It was said gently and without recrimination too. All round a perfect comment.

agree to a point but sometimes as a manager you have to be the one whos focused on the game management and not get caught up in the game, ball watching from the sides.again the job brendans done has been extraordinary and im delighted hes to sign a new deal this week but...i felt he too kinda lost himself in the moment in those final few minutes.

[Jules01]

He knew in hindsight he should of brought Agger on,his interview suggested that.He realsitically could of only done that after it went 3-2.The team were pushing for more goals and their 1st goal was a bolt out of the blue really,the space inbetween the goals was only a couple of mins and we still put 7 players in the final third.

I think he noted after the Norwich game that he brought on Agger to deal with the crosses coming in,which is'nt what palace were really doing,can only think that was in his thinking not to bring him on.

[ANFIELDGATES]

He knew in hindsight he should of brought Agger on,his interview suggested that.He realsitically could of only done that after it went 3-2.The team were pushing for more goals and their 1st goal was a bolt out of the blue really,the space inbetween the goals was only a couple of mins and we still put 7 players in the final third.

I think he noted after the Norwich game that he brought on Agger to deal with the crosses coming in,which is'nt what palace were really doing,can only think that was in his thinking not to bring him on.

its not whether he should have brought agger on and when,its more to do with allowing the players to their own course of action.the team really lost the plot in the final mins and for me brendan has to be the one to get them back on track and calm the heads.as u said,hindsights a wonderful thing !!!!

[B0151?]

its not whether he should have brought agger on and when,its more to do with allowing the players to their own course of action.the team really lost the plot in the final mins and for me brendan has to be the one to get them back on track and calm the heads.as u said,hindsights a wonderful thing !!!!

There's only so much he can do mate. He can't exactly come on and give a team talk. Not that I'm saying there is nothing he could have done, but it's very hard for one man on the sidelines to get 11 players to fully regain their composure.

[killer-heels]

Funny one to analyse this. On one hand, everyone can see what went wrong. On the other hand, there seem to be an inevitability in it after 3-1.

That said, I don't think it was as deflating as the Chelsea loss. In a perverse way it was kind of fun, going down all guns blazing an all that

[rickardinho1]

Funny one to analyse this. On one hand, everyone can see what went wrong. On the other hand, there seem to be an inevitability in it after 3-1.

That said, I don't think it was as deflating as the Chelsea loss. In a perverse way it was kind of fun, going down all guns blazing an all that

Love it! 

I'd rather we did that than try to weasel our way to wins and draws.

[Lazy Gun]

There's only so much he can do mate. He can't exactly come on and give a team talk. Not that I'm saying there is nothing he could have done, but it's very hard for one man on the sidelines to get 11 players to fully regain their composure.

For me the situation was crying out for someone to go down with a "knock" to stop the game and get some instructions onto the pitch.   Its game management.  Something we know we need to improve on going forward, and will be especially important in European games next season.  The more experienced players should have the smarts to take the inititative and do this.  I know its not nice, but sometimes its necessary.

At the end of the day the result, devastating as it was after being 3 up, only means that we now need Man City to lose a game and not just draw.  Im very hopeful that Fat Sam will try to do what he enjoys best, taking down one of the big teams.  Lets hope he succeeds.

   

[Bud P Austin]

In a perverse way it was kind of fun, going down all guns blazing an all that

As Crystal's Gayle with his incongruously blue eyes that ought be brown (see what I did there?) slapped in that sickeningly predictable equalizer, I was slaughtering the atmosphere with Punjabi curses regarding the carnal habits of mothers and sisters, yet also cackling in a perverse glee like Oswald Cobblepot on a bad night. This incarnation of Liverpool, to me, is Sir Lancelot: the most beautiful and gifted yet forever burdened with the most shameful, unforgivable lapse. Our defence is Guinevere's sex appeal: it's as simple as that.

Born of the sun, they travelled a short while toward the sun
And left the vivid air signed with their honour.

That's how I'll remember this season: the glorious dogfight ending with a flaming barrel-roll, trailing cylinders of smoke, machine guns spitting bullets all the way to a final fiery apocalypse.

But of course, next season, we'll be rebuilt.
 

[Easy]

At 1-3 my mind went back to that game in 2012 when we were 0-2 up against QPR and then conceded 3 goals in the last 12 minutes. Then the same thing happened here. Different managers different teams but there were similarities in terms of the on-field collective brainfartery displayed by the team. It doesn't happen often and twice in 2 years is probably enough for me.

Remember, if Moses had scored his sitter on 93 minutes, LFC would have been lauded as the bestest, maddest, swashbucklingest team ever seen. Instead it became a media avalanche of "you can't win anything defending like that" which they'd been saving up for months. It was bound to happen.

A great thread and a good read all round.

[Yorkykopite]

Was it a 'sitter' by Moses? I didn't think so when I first saw it. Painful as it was I checked a second time. It was a reasonable chance I think but by no means a 'sitter'.

[Chakan]

Was it a 'sitter' by Moses? I didn't think so when I first saw it. Painful as it was I checked a second time. It was a reasonable chance I think but by no means a 'sitter'.

[Ipcress]

Please say you've photoshopped out a couple of Palace defenders on the line? I can't bring myself to rewatch the match...

[goalrushatgoodison]

its not whether he should have brought agger on and when,its more to do with allowing the players to their own course of action.the team really lost the plot in the final mins and for me brendan has to be the one to get them back on track and calm the heads.as u said,hindsights a wonderful thing !!!!

Agger was standing behind Brendan, stripped off, when palace equalised.

[ANFIELDGATES]

Agger was standing behind Brendan, stripped off, when palace equalised.

well thats alright then,oh well my bad!!!

[rickardinho1]

I can't look at that without laughing and crying at the same time. If i look at it longer than 5 seconds i find myself wanting to punch my laptop screen in frustration to make it go away

[Bergersrightwingviews]

That is one of the most crushing results I have ever experienced. It feels even worse than the Chelsea defeat.

First 70 odd mins we were exceptional. One of the most mature and effective performances of the season.
Glen Johnson was excellent. His cutting into the box looked like a very deliberate tactic to counter Palace's low block. It should have resulted in a penalty, and GJ was very close with that header. It was great to see that Rodgers had learned from the Chelsea game and come up with something to deal with that type of opposition.

We were comfortable going into the second half, but Palace were defending well. Then we got a second and a third and it looked so, so easy. I couldn't believe how easily we cut them open for those two goals. It really looked like we were going to get 5 or 6. Even after their first goal I thought we were safe. It was just a bad bit of luck with the deflection.

Then wtf happened? We suddenly looked absolutely knackered, which I suppose we were. Glen in particular looked ragged and he was appalling for the rest of the game. His decision making was appalling. If a schoolboy did what he did for the second I would have been livid. There was so much soace behind him what was he thinking getting that close?

As Carra and Neville said we dropped deeper and deeper after that and we were inviting pressure. We needed a leader who would make sure the boys pushed up or at least stayed in a straight fucking line. Sakho was particularly guilty of this. Palace don't have the quality to play passes in behind you so push up on them. I would rather we lost headers 40 yards from our goal than on the 18 yard line.

It was encouraging to hear BR talk about game management as we failed spectacularly at this and not for the first time. When he joined I was expecting us to have a lot of the ball and maybe be a bit toothless at times. I was okay with that, but we haven't seen that "sterile domination" at all, and that was exactly what we needed last night at 3-1. Keep the ball tire them out and hopefully get another goal late on.

That is not to say that I am not happy with the relentless attacking football we play. It is almost always the best approach for us. I would rather we score 99 goals than dominate the possession like Arsenal, but we do need to learn how to kill a game dead.

There has been a lot written about needing a plan B, and most seem to disdain the concept. I think that's because in England plan B usually equals - lump it up to the big man. We are never going to do that and nor should we.
I think our plan B should be what I thought was going to be our plan A - keep the ball tire them out and wait for an opening. They way we attack is always going to mean that the opposition will be able to find space against us. If we are trying to see out a game going hell for leather as we usually do means results like this are going to happen. We need to get back to the idea that if we have the ball the opposition can't score.

[Yorkykopite]

Pity that's a still image because it doesn't do justice to the reality (it hardly ever does in sports photography). If you watch the moving image in real time Moses didn't have much sight of goal by the time the defenders were on him. By no means was it the straightforward chance some people are saying - as comforting as it is to have someone to blame.

[Chakan]

Pity that's a still image because it doesn't do justice to the reality (it hardly ever does in sports photography). If you watch the moving image in real time Moses didn't have much sight of goal by the time the defenders were on him. By no means was it the straightforward chance some people are saying - as comforting as it is to have someone to blame.

Agree to disagree.

He's shaping up to kick the ball, it's not like he's just received the ball and still has to make room for himself, he makes any sort of decent contact with the ball and it's in the back of the net. He bottled it in my opinion.

The only thing I can say is that it falls to his weaker foot, as far as I know.

[CHOPPER]

Pity that's a still image because it doesn't do justice to the reality (it hardly ever does in sports photography). If you watch the moving image in real time Moses didn't have much sight of goal by the time the defenders were on him. By no means was it the straightforward chance some people are saying - as comforting as it is to have someone to blame.

Oh give over you, ye miserable get. We need someone to blame and pin it all on, and here's you doing the opposite.


You're a disgrace to the round table ideology.

[Yorkykopite]

Oh give over you, ye miserable get. We need someone to blame and pin it all on, and here's you doing the opposite.


You're a disgrace to the round table ideology.

Moses smashed the tablets, Moses smashed the tablets.

Is that right?

[robgomm]

Man miskicks football, shock ensues.

[CHOPPER]

Moses smashed the tablets, Moses smashed the tablets.

Is that right?

He ran them over when he came down in his Triumph. The daft get that he is.

[Yorkykopite]

He ran them over when he came down in his Triumph. The daft get that he is.

Are you saying it was the Dolomites? I thought it was Sinai?

[CHOPPER]

Are you saying it was the Dolomites? I thought it was Sinai?

Tiswas indeed the Dolomites. The Babel gets it wrong all the time......and he dies in the end as well. Theres a twist like, but I won't spoil it for you.... its a bit like our season! 

[gregorio]

A famous collapse from 3-0 up to 3-3. Humiliation & despair. A significant blow to the psyche of the club. Long term prospects damaged.

Two years later AC Milan are European Champions for the 7th time

[cynical get]

Let the so-called "neutral" peasants snigger on Twitter at Gerrard's ironic slip, of both tongue and step. Let the English media fuckwits continue to fellate that anti-football arch specialist in failure as some sort of tactical genius. As our captain said in that centre circle rallying cry "we go again". And that we will. Next season. In the Champions League too, lest we forget.
[/quote]

Lol,, love this...well said

[rickardinho1]

Oh give over you, ye miserable get. We need someone to blame and pin it all on, and here's you doing the opposite.


You're a disgrace to the round table ideology.

Its all Chelsea's fault. First Lukaku doesnt score enough against City, then Chelsea park their two buses at Anfield, then they instruct Moses to miss sitters, and then Bertrand lets Zabaleta walk past him to score City's opener. Fucking Chelsea I tell you

[GrkStav]

Pity that's a still image because it doesn't do justice to the reality (it hardly ever does in sports photography). If you watch the moving image in real time Moses didn't have much sight of goal by the time the defenders were on him. By no means was it the straightforward chance some people are saying - as comforting as it is to have someone to blame.

To the best of my knowledge, he wasn't even credited with an attempted shot for that.

On the Premier League site, he's credited with 'assisting' Lucas's subsequent blocked shot.

http://www.premierleague.com/content/premierleague/en-gb/matchday/matches/2013-2014/epl.match-report.html/crystal-palace-vs-liverpool

"90:00 + 3:39

Attempt Blocked. Lucas Leiva (Liverpool) right footed from the right side of the six yard box is blocked. Assisted by Victor Moses."

As they say, you cannot make this up.

Smashing Round Table, by the way, everyone!

[WraithXx]

I was just about to shut my laptop off and go to bed in peace... now you've blessed me with nightmares and restarted the pain again.

FUCK THE FUCK OFF.

[oldfordie]

I know the obvious thing is to blame the defence and yes they made mistakes but we have to be far more careful with the ball when we pile forward.
Palaces 2nd goal really shows how easy it is for us to be hit on the break.
8 players forward and Allen hits the ball into a crowded penalty area, still not sure if it was a shot or a pass to Suarez. ball goes straight to a Palace defender and in seconds it's 2-3.
It's not only costing goals, it's forcing overlapping players like Johnson and Flanagan to run up and down the field flat out all through the match. no wonder they all looked knackered by the end of the game. Don't force things when we dont have to.keep possession up field. it doesn't matter who we get in defence they will concede if they are left wide open all the time.

[Miltonred]

For the last two games to mean anything, we need to get in this position again, but execute better. No amount of positivity can put lipstick on this pig, so you just have to accept that the Chelsea and Palace games were fuck ups, that we must learn from.

Certain players showed their limitations, and I felt that we needed a little more in the way of leadership. The transfer window can address that.

I keep going back to 1991, when United looked all set to clinch their first title in 24 years and didn't in part thanks to a final day defeat at Anfield. The following year they won it and never looked back (until this season).

CL next year is exciting, but the last few weeks have reminded me that the real prize is the title, that's the one I want.

[Mutton Geoff]

Well Moses certainly didnt come forth.

[rickardinho1]

Ever since PoP jibbed the site we've been on a bad run. Just saying.

It was the introduction of that fucking Moyes statue at Anfield that did us in

[Rob Dylan]

That Moses picture is a bit misleading - by the time his foot reaches the ball there is at least one Palace defender blocking the ball. Plus, from what I remember it was bouncing straight up in front of him which made it a bit awkward. Should have done better but it's not as bad as the picture makes it look.

[Timbo's Goals]

That Moses picture is a bit misleading - by the time his foot reaches the ball there is at least one Palace defender blocking the ball. Plus, from what I remember it was bouncing straight up in front of him which made it a bit awkward. Should have done better but it's not as bad as the picture makes it look.

It's a fantastic photo that we'll all look back on with huge fondness after our 5th successive Premier league and Champions league double come 2019 but you're absolutely right. He possibly should still have been able to to poke it home but the time and space he appears to have on the photo merely shows that photos can lie - or at the very least distort the truth.

 

[wah00ey]

It's a fantastic photo that we'll all look back on with huge fondness after our 5th successive Premier league and Champions league double come 2019 but you're absolutely right. He possibly should still have been able to to poke it home but the time and space he appears to have on the photo merely shows that photos can lie - or at the very least distort the truth.

 

So true.  Photos never do me justice.  I look like a young Robert Redford in real life but always look like James Corden in a photo...

[Timbo's Goals]

So true.  Photos never do me justice.  I look like a young Robert Redford in real life but always look like James Corden in a photo...

Ha ha. Amazing how many of us have retained that young Redford look

 

[steveeastend]

There are a million things which can be said about these two games, Chelsea and Palace, but overall the reasons why it didn't work out are pretty simple and totally understandable. There hasn't been a team in PL history going from 7th to 1st and there is a reason for that as there is a limitation in how much a team is able to learn within one season and we simply reached our limits prior the Chelsea game.

A lot of people pointing fingers at this moment that our defending cost us "all season" blablabla but I think they couldn't be more off in trying to look at these two games in isolation. And I am sure a lot of people will lose their minds in doing so, with all those "ifs" and "would have" but to me, this doesn't make any sense as our brave attacking football brought us where we are and it's not possible to adjust every little detail needed within one season.

I'd rather concentrate on the positives, that we will finish 2nd this season, which is just an incredible achievement, absolutely brilliant reflection of our quality! Yes, Rodgers will probably learn from those two games more than he did during in his entire first season here but when it comes to the players I don't want them to feel downhearted for one second, there is also a lesson in not letting this hurt them too much as it isn't a true reflection on our current quality, not a single bit. Instead, they should take pride in finishing second, right in front of Chelsea and Arsenal, those smug teams who felt superior for some reason, well behind us. And for sure we are no underdogs anymore, left those humilating years behind us, ARE one of the best teams in the PL, the best league in the world and the players should remember exactly that prior this Newcastle game, come out with their heads up and batter them as there is absolutely no reason to feel like we have lost something in our quality. We didn't, just because we lost our organisation for short periods in a game, just because there MIGHT have been some wrong game plan set up prior those two games doesn't change anything on our quality, not a single bit and I hope we show that on sunday.

Finally, I couldn't care less about this stupid talk from one million armchair manager in public trying to belittle our players at the moment. They can fuck off, just as Everton with their bitter attitude in this City game. A disgrace to football and if anything makes me proud then knowing that we are not like that at all, the polar opposite with sticking to our own style of football despite pushing it a little too far in those games. But that's football, you only make mistakes if you are willing to play football with your heart in the first place and to me, that's what it's all about. Considering this I hope we bring in one or two top additions in attack for next season as I don't want us to change a single bit.
I absolutely love our football since Rodgers came in. Two games won't change that.

[GrkStav]

Point of clarification: Is it not the purpose of the Round Table threads, after each game, to focus on that one particular game and analyze IT, as opposed to the entire season, the views of pundits, etc?

When does analysis of a particular game, periods within it, managerial decisions, individual player performances overall or during particular incidents etc transform itself into 'finger-pointing' and 'blaming'?

As much as I understand it, I cannot agree with the point of view or opinion that our going from 0-3 vs CPFC to 3-3 in less than 20 minutes is the result of 'regression to the mean', player fatigue, player naivete, etc. Or that it's not appropriate to analyze what happened because some fools in the media have said this, that, or the other about our club, our manager, our players, etc.