Author Topic: Liverpool's Midfield  (Read 1807349 times)

Offline duvva 💅

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16360 on: October 20, 2019, 08:13:30 pm »
He is not woefully out of form, he didn't play well today but neither did anyone else who started. He has played fine in other games. But there always has to be someone who is used as a scape goat.
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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16361 on: October 20, 2019, 08:16:33 pm »
Keita and Ox will help tremendously if the stay fit, Lallana as well, and the season is just started, so having them is a major plus, it's clear the quality they have. If they're fit, they'll play part. Keita certainly did last season, hes been unlucky with injuries. Same with Ox, he's been handled perfectly given the serious injury he sustained.

Having them will help us challenge, it's clear that Klopp values them.

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16362 on: October 20, 2019, 08:48:02 pm »
We want our FB's to do almost all of the ball entry work into the final 3rd.  Most of what we have to judge our midfield on is how well do they press, defend and keep the ball ticking over.  Hendo's job is to make sure Trent has the time and space to pick a pass into the box.  In that he seemingly failed today but if that's his fault or the whole teams fault I have no idea.  To me he came off as an ineffective right winger more than a midfielder anyway, just look at his heat map.  It's not in midfield.


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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16363 on: October 20, 2019, 08:58:27 pm »
To me he came off as an ineffective right winger more than a midfielder anyway, just look at his heat map.  It's not in midfield.
It's the same issue with Henderson and Milner from day one.

They are uncomfortable playing in tight spaces within opposition shape so instead they drift outside in wide areas to receive passes. That's why we looked infinitely more balanced with Lallana between the lines - it wasn't just the fresh legs , it's the midfielder with ability in tight spaces that this teams needs which gives our midfield balance not opposing qualities that Milner and Henderson offer.

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16364 on: October 20, 2019, 10:02:52 pm »
It was a bad day at the office but to dismiss Gini, Fab, and Henderson as being incidental to the team's success is appalling.

When we don't have Mane, Firmino, and Salah as the front three, then playing a water carrying midfield makes less sense, but its not like Chamberlain and Keita are match fit and ready to be thrown in. If either were, they would've started today.

Very exciting to see Keita, Chamberlain and Lallana excel today. It will be interesting to see how the team's balance and solidity is affected if we play a run of games with Keita or Chamberlain instead of Gini or Henderson.

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16365 on: October 20, 2019, 10:23:22 pm »
Henderson’s limitations are his inability to find the back of the net and the speed with which he gets the ball moving forwards. There was one classic example today where he could have played a first time pass to TAA to create a possible counter attack but he took 4 touches before passing the ball and taking all momentum out of the move. I’m a big fan of Henderson and he’s like every player, he has flaws but I think his are becoming more obvious as Klopp’s team evolves.
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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16366 on: October 21, 2019, 02:10:11 am »
It was a bad day at the office but to dismiss Gini, Fab, and Henderson as being incidental to the team's success is appalling.

When we don't have Mane, Firmino, and Salah as the front three, then playing a water carrying midfield makes less sense, but its not like Chamberlain and Keita are match fit and ready to be thrown in. If either were, they would've started today.

Very exciting to see Keita, Chamberlain and Lallana excel today. It will be interesting to see how the team's balance and solidity is affected if we play a run of games with Keita or Chamberlain instead of Gini or Henderson.

Yes this is how I see it too. Without the best front three, the Wijnaldum/Fabinho/Henderson midfield doesn't seem to have enough penetration or potency, especially without Salah. Wijnaldum had that little run early in the first half when he beat two defenders but his shot was ordinary. We needed more of that kind of dribbling.

I suppose that's what the other midfielders offer but we just need them to stay fit.

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16367 on: October 21, 2019, 02:41:51 am »
Here is our key passes and assists against the heat map of United's players. All of our dangerous passes came from 4 players, only one of whom was a midfielder - Fabinho. The other three players were the two fullbacks and Mane:



We might not need an out and out playmaker, but we probably could do with more output in creating chances than we saw today from Gini and Henderson.
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Offline Something Worse

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16368 on: October 21, 2019, 02:43:49 am »
Here is our key passes and assists against the heat map of United's players. All of our dangerous passes came from 4 players, only one of whom was a midfielder - Fabinho. The other three players were the two fullbacks and Mane:



We might not need an out and out playmaker, but we probably could do with more output in creating chances than we saw today from Gini and Henderson.

I thought Gini was good, at least in the first half.

So Keita and/or Ox for Gini and/or Hendo?
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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16369 on: October 21, 2019, 02:46:53 am »
Here is our key passes and assists against the heat map of United's players. All of our dangerous passes came from 4 players, only one of whom was a midfielder - Fabinho. The other three players were the two fullbacks and Mane:



We might not need an out and out playmaker, but we probably could do with more output in creating chances than we saw today from Gini and Henderson.
We need the midfield to put in more forward impact when one of the three strikers is out.
Origi just does not have the same penetrative impact.
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Offline PhaseOfPlay

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16370 on: October 21, 2019, 02:57:35 am »
I thought Gini was good, at least in the first half.

So Keita and/or Ox for Gini and/or Hendo?

Gini was our most technical midfielder and at least tried to play the ball intelligently, but from the stats, it looked like he basically rotated the ball and kept possession ticking over, in terms of passing. He had three dribbles, 2 successful, but they weren't dribbles to create danger near the goal. When the defensive mid creates more danger with passes than the two box-to-box mids, I think asking for a little more output is a fair call.

This was our shape before the subs:



Large gaps in the inside channels, and two clusters of wide players trying to get around the outsides of the United block. This is the shape after all the subs were made:



We can see where we were then able to put pressure on United for the final period of the game, leading to an equalizer and better field position to force a winner (which we would have, under the pre-2019 lotg, probably).

It's all hindsight, but a better balanced midfield might have served us better. 4 shots on target for 61% possession is probably not a great return on having that much of the ball. but only 10 shots in total says a lot for where we were shut down (I think United dealt with the fullbacks fairly well), and how the midfield weren't able to pick up the slack.
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Offline BrandoLFC

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16371 on: October 21, 2019, 04:20:39 am »
Klopp doesn't ask for more output though unless there are no other options.  We've seen this version of LFC now for 9-10 months and it works amazingly well most of the time while usually including no offensively minded midfielders.  Fabinho, Gini and Henderson get the majority of minutes now and didn't average a shot or shot assisted a game for the whole season last year.  They're well on their way to replicating it again this season. 

Though it did take Milner tailing off and Keita getting hurt for this style to become the norm.  I still think the Spurs away game at Wembley was the one of the best games we played in the last 18 months regardless of score line and it was with a midfield of Milner, Gini and Keita.  Maybe it can change again.  Guess we'll see.

Edit: Also think 10 total shots when trailing for 60 minutes of the game is almost criminally bad offensive output so the focus shouldn't be solely on the midfield.

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16372 on: October 21, 2019, 05:02:57 am »
Klopp doesn't ask for more output though unless there are no other options.  We've seen this version of LFC now for 9-10 months and it works amazingly well most of the time while usually including no offensively minded midfielders.  Fabinho, Gini and Henderson get the majority of minutes now and didn't average a shot or shot assisted a game for the whole season last year.  They're well on their way to replicating it again this season. 

You're absolutely right - but today there were no other options - both fullbacks were playing conservative for large parts of the game, and so we needed to create openings from other positions. We had 61% possession, so if the fullbacks (our main source of final balls) get jammed up, the midfielders have to pick up the slack, otherwise we're left with launching long balls into the box or hoping for a bit of individual magic - and Firmino wasn't in that kind of form today.

Quote
Though it did take Milner tailing off and Keita getting hurt for this style to become the norm.  I still think the Spurs away game at Wembley was the one of the best games we played in the last 18 months regardless of score line and it was with a midfield of Milner, Gini and Keita.  Maybe it can change again.  Guess we'll see.

Edit: Also think 10 total shots when trailing for 60 minutes of the game is almost criminally bad offensive output so the focus shouldn't be solely on the midfield.

You're right that we should look elsewhere, and in that case, we should probably look at both Mane and Origi, who didn't have a shot on goal between them all game (although Origi had a blocked shot). And while Mane at least tried to create something, Origi contributed nothing impactful to the attack, and spent most of his time doubling up with Robertson or moving the ball for possession.



Almost all of his successful passes and crosses were backwards and short, and none into the box to create danger. It was a waste of an attacker in a big game. Was it tactical, or did he just play that way of his own volition? Only Klopp and he knows. But it unbalanced our attack for sure.


We were essentially playing against 12 players given Atkinson's/VAR's apparent bias, so we really needed to do something more with all of our possession. If our main avenues of attack were being dealt with, we had to find something different to take advantage of the spaces left (either the midfield, or a change of formation to release the fullbacks, or maybe using one of the two central defenders more, bringing the ball into midfield and creating overloads that way). United's plan to defend, defend, and defend again worked well for them. They gave us the ball, and we really didn't know what to do with it. It's a problem we've had before.
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Offline mrantarctica

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16373 on: October 21, 2019, 05:13:42 am »

Our main problem in the game was that we didn't stamp our authority on the game by maintaining a high tempo. We were too slow didn't really look to break through their very congested defensive structure by quick intelligent movement. We can do better in this regard. Whether this was a personnel problem or just that Gini and Hendo weren't great today, or perhaps tactically we weren't set up exactly right for the Man Utd team that came out, I'm not really sure.

Klopp doesn't always rely on those elegant and clever attacking midfielder types. I think in general he wants the midfielders to be hard work, able to initiate the press and counter-press, and to shuttle the ball into areas where chance creation comes from, which for Klopp is generally from the wider forward areas.

It also wasn't obvious that Ox or Keita or Lallana for that matter would start as all of them have had significant injury problems and aren't completely at the top of their games. I also suspect that perhaps JK thought that Man Utd might come out and attack a bit more and make more of a contest given that they were at home and all. I don't think he was expecting that they would park the bus as much as they did.

I think for me a point at Man U is very good in many respects, and the game showed that not only do we have our usual 4 midfielders, but we are seeing Ox, Keita and Lallana get back to top fitness and this all leaves us in good stead for upcoming games which will come thick and fast. I'm sure we'll see Ox and Keith get more starts, and I suspect Lallana will get more opportunities later in the games to do a job tactically.

Offline ThePoolMan

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16374 on: October 21, 2019, 05:15:00 am »
Here is our key passes and assists against the heat map of United's players. All of our dangerous passes came from 4 players, only one of whom was a midfielder - Fabinho. The other three players were the two fullbacks and Mane:



We might not need an out and out playmaker, but we probably could do with more output in creating chances than we saw today from Gini and Henderson.

Exactly - Oxlade Chamberlain and Keita were a marked improvement when they came on. Given how United clamped down on our fullbacks, it is clear that they had identified our FBs as the channel for our attacks and Klopp should have changed things earlier.

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16375 on: October 21, 2019, 07:00:22 am »
We absolutely need to see more from the midfield in an attacking sense. I know they do plenty of other work for us and both Henderson and Wijnaldum are important players but they both are very limited in their ability to feed the attackers.

I am guessing that because Firmino was offside that pass to him which Firmino headed on goal wasnt counted as a key pass?

Offline xbugawugax

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16376 on: October 21, 2019, 08:09:03 am »
so basically klopp and the coaches saw that we have to be more productive in the middle hence the triple substitution of Lallana, ox and keita. All three bringing something different to our attacking play. I thought gini was our most active midfielder before the subs.

the three subs and change in tactics resulted in the equalizer. That makes it pretty good in game decision making right?

upon the introduction of keita, fabinho kind of pushed futher upfield and played more attacking i think. Not sure whether its instruction from the coaches or just his natural instinct to get the play moving in a forward direction.  If the game was played another 10-20 more minutes(kloppo/sir alex inj time), I do guess that we could have gotten a winner as we were creating more threatening chances late on after the equalizer.


Offline ThePoolMan

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16377 on: October 21, 2019, 08:47:56 am »
so basically klopp and the coaches saw that we have to be more productive in the middle hence the triple substitution of Lallana, ox and keita. All three bringing something different to our attacking play. I thought gini was our most active midfielder before the subs.

the three subs and change in tactics resulted in the equalizer. That makes it pretty good in game decision making right?

upon the introduction of keita, fabinho kind of pushed futher upfield and played more attacking i think. Not sure whether its instruction from the coaches or just his natural instinct to get the play moving in a forward direction.  If the game was played another 10-20 more minutes(kloppo/sir alex inj time), I do guess that we could have gotten a winner as we were creating more threatening chances late on after the equalizer.



The substitutions were clearly the right thing to do, but Klopp left it too late to make the changes - I suspect had he made them early on in the first half when it was clear things were not working, we would have won th egame.

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16378 on: October 21, 2019, 09:12:50 am »
The substitutions were clearly the right thing to do, but Klopp left it too late to make the changes - I suspect had he made them early on in the first half when it was clear things were not working, we would have won th egame.

He can be too slow to react at times and tends to leave it until he's really forced into it. Salzburg for example we needed to change it at 3-1 when we were under the cosh not sit and leave it till it's 3-3. Southampton last season when he bought Hendo and Milner on it changed the game and that was done quite early in the second half but we were quite clearly being swamped at the time.


Keita is just back.

Klopp will start playing him

We've got the Guinea manager to thank for the midfield problems this season. Keita when 100% is vital. The regular 3 aren't doing enough away from home. There's nothing there to worry defences and makes it easier to cut out the forwards and concentrate on stopping the full backs.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2019, 09:17:33 am by Fromola »
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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16379 on: October 21, 2019, 10:33:56 am »
Wijnaldum is a weird one. When he's wearing a Liverpool shirt he looks about as likely to do something positive as Joel Matip. In the last 2 and a bit seasons he's scored 8 goals and had 4 assists in the Premier League and Champions League. From what I can see online he hasn't had an assist in the Premier League since 21st April 2018! Contrast this with his form for the Netherlands; where he's scoring way more often and banging in 25 yard thunderbastards. I know he isn't being asked to play like Riquelme for us, but for god sake, show something will you?

Offline jepovic

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16380 on: October 21, 2019, 10:40:46 am »
Wijnaldum is a weird one. When he's wearing a Liverpool shirt he looks about as likely to do something positive as Joel Matip. In the last 2 and a bit seasons he's scored 8 goals and had 4 assists in the Premier League and Champions League. From what I can see online he hasn't had an assist in the Premier League since 21st April 2018! Contrast this with his form for the Netherlands; where he's scoring way more often and banging in 25 yard thunderbastards. I know he isn't being asked to play like Riquelme for us, but for god sake, show something will you?
I agree. Henderson is doing his best, he has his pros and cons, but with Gini it just feels like there's a better player in there. He's fine of course, major part of our success, but he shows flashes of much more. Hos numbers for Holland and Newcastle support this feeling . Probably the only current starting player where I think Klopp never got the best out of a player.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2019, 10:42:28 am by jepovic »

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16381 on: October 21, 2019, 10:43:44 am »
It's the same issue with Henderson and Milner from day one.

They are uncomfortable playing in tight spaces within opposition shape so instead they drift outside in wide areas to receive passes. That's why we looked infinitely more balanced with Lallana between the lines - it wasn't just the fresh legs , it's the midfielder with ability in tight spaces that this teams needs which gives our midfield balance not opposing qualities that Milner and Henderson offer.

I don't think this is a totally fair criticism of Milner because he does at least create from those wide areas. So many posters on here criticise Milner for moving outside the ball, and that's fine because it can leave Fabinho and our central defenders more open to counter-attacks. But you can't criticise him for it without praising him for his productivity on the ball.

If Klopp wants to go with a reliable, workmanlike midfield, then Milner should be in it. While he lacks Oxlade's, Keita's and to a lesser extent Lallana's ball-carrying skills, he can at least connect midfield to attack with his forward passing (and he's the second best crosser we have, too). We've seen more than enough of Fabinho, Henderson and Wijnaldum as a trio to know it starves our front three of ball.

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16382 on: October 21, 2019, 10:59:22 am »
I don't think this is a totally fair criticism of Milner because he does at least create from those wide areas. So many posters on here criticise Milner for moving outside the ball, and that's fine because it can leave Fabinho and our central defenders more open to counter-attacks. But you can't criticise him for it without praising him for his productivity on the ball.

If Klopp wants to go with a reliable, workmanlike midfield, then Milner should be in it. While he lacks Oxlade's, Keita's and to a lesser extent Lallana's ball-carrying skills, he can at least connect midfield to attack with his forward passing (and he's the second best crosser we have, too). We've seen more than enough of Fabinho, Henderson and Wijnaldum as a trio to know it starves our front three of ball.
Agree. Don't think anyone complained when Milner moved to the wing before playing the pass of the season to Mane against Leicester, for example.

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16383 on: October 21, 2019, 11:15:06 am »
Wijnaldum is a weird one. When he's wearing a Liverpool shirt he looks about as likely to do something positive as Joel Matip. In the last 2 and a bit seasons he's scored 8 goals and had 4 assists in the Premier League and Champions League. From what I can see online he hasn't had an assist in the Premier League since 21st April 2018! Contrast this with his form for the Netherlands; where he's scoring way more often and banging in 25 yard thunderbastards. I know he isn't being asked to play like Riquelme for us, but for god sake, show something will you?

Very true. He isn't doing enough for us at all.

Since they're both fit now, I'd like to see Keita and Ox start more games for us in midfield. I'm positive they will do more going forward and linking with our front three.

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16384 on: October 21, 2019, 11:18:25 am »
Very true. He isn't doing enough for us at all.

Since they're both fit now, I'd like to see Keita and Ox start more games for us in midfield. I'm positive they will do more going forward and linking with our front three.

It's not like Gini runs himself into the ground away from home and is great defensively either. He just doesn't do enough. The midfield has never been right in these big away games.

Fabinho needs to be first pick and then one of Henderson/Gini/Milner at most and then Keita or Chamberlain. If they could stay fully fit then Naby, Ox and Fabinho would probably be the best midfield.

Gini potentially more of an impact player off the bench (certainly was in the CL semi, albeit in a home game where he seems a different player). He was a passenger in the final as well and Milner came on and offered more.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2019, 11:20:10 am by Fromola »
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Offline SMASHerano

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16385 on: October 21, 2019, 11:22:48 am »
It's not like Gini runs himself into the ground away from home and is great defensively either. He just doesn't do enough. The midfield has never been right in these big away games.

Fabinho needs to be first pick and then one of Henderson/Gini/Milner at most and then Keita or Chamberlain. If they could stay fully fit then Naby, Ox and Fabinho would probably be the best midfield.

Gini potentially more of an impact player off the bench (certainly was in the CL semi, albeit in a home game where he seems a different player). He was a passenger in the final as well and Milner came on and offered more.

Agreed with all the above points. His away form is a question mark for me, he always seems to be anonymous in them.

Keita, Ox and Fabinho would be ideal in my opinion.

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16386 on: October 21, 2019, 11:31:43 am »
Agreed with all the above points. His away form is a question mark for me, he always seems to be anonymous in them.

Keita, Ox and Fabinho would be ideal in my opinion.

I feel like we carry Wijnaldum too much away from home and it makes it harder for the other 2 in there. It was a source of frustration that we stuck with the Henderson/Milner/Wijnaldum midfield for too long which didn't work in big away games. It was set up to be solid but wasn't really, as we conceded too many goals and chances. Since City away Fabinho (who came on off the bench that game) has took Milner's place as first pick in these games which has helped defensively but the balance still isn't there, certainly going forward.

To be fair to Klopp he's been hamstrung by Keita and Chamberlain's fitness but he did gamble on it by not signing a more attacking/ball playing midfielder in the summer. It hasn't hurt us yet but it needs to improve. It's the one area City have really got the drop on us (De Bruyne and the Silvas).
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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16387 on: October 21, 2019, 11:52:38 am »
I feel like we carry Wijnaldum too much away from home and it makes it harder for the other 2 in there. It was a source of frustration that we stuck with the Henderson/Milner/Wijnaldum midfield for too long which didn't work in big away games. It was set up to be solid but wasn't really, as we conceded too many goals and chances. Since City away Fabinho (who came on off the bench that game) has took Milner's place as first pick in these games which has helped defensively but the balance still isn't there, certainly going forward.

To be fair to Klopp he's been hamstrung by Keita and Chamberlain's fitness but he did gamble on it by not signing a more attacking/ball playing midfielder in the summer. It hasn't hurt us yet but it needs to improve. It's the one area City have really got the drop on us (De Bruyne and the Silvas).

Couldn't agree more. Klopp's idea of a functional midfield seems to be Fab, Gini, Hendo, with Milner helping out in spells. Yes this midfield has let us down on some occasions, especially against low block teams.

Hopefully we will start seeing Fab, Gini, Keita or even more of Fab, Keita, Ox in the next few weeks. Getting Keita up to speed could revolutionise our season in my opinion.
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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16388 on: October 21, 2019, 12:07:16 pm »
I thought Wijnaldum was the only one in our midfield who even looked like he was willing to carry the ball in the first half. Strange that.

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16389 on: October 21, 2019, 12:12:54 pm »
Couldn't agree more. Klopp's idea of a functional midfield seems to be Fab, Gini, Hendo, with Milner helping out in spells. Yes this midfield has let us down on some occasions, especially against low block teams.

Hopefully we will start seeing Fab, Gini, Keita or even more of Fab, Keita, Ox in the next few weeks. Getting Keita up to speed could revolutionise our season in my opinion.


You could see the difference keita and ox made yesterday, Keita once match fit should be starting games for us

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16390 on: October 21, 2019, 12:40:48 pm »
You could see the difference keita and ox made yesterday, Keita once match fit should be starting games for us

Don't discount Lallana either.

We are a team that are extremely fast. We have fast players, are very quick on transition and to facilitate that we need players who play the game at a very high tempo. Hendo and Gini are not really high tempo players (or not being utilised as such, because I think both can actually be high tempo players in the right circumstances).

Lallana doesn't have a lot of pace but his technique and first touch mean that he is able to use the ball more quickly than the others because he doesn't spend 4 touches just getting the ball into position where he can decide where to pass it. Ox has more raw pace/directness on the ball which we are starting to see more and more in his appearances, and hopefully he will be a regular starter soon. Naby doesn't have raw pace but he creates tempo by being able to be clever with his dribbling and pacing and creating gaps through guile and trickery. All of these are tools that we can hopefully utilise more and more as these players maintain their fitness and get match sharpness. In particular the 2 Genk games and League Cup against Arsenal could be good opportunities to give these 3 some extended minutes and perhaps gives us a bit more dimensions to how we can break teams down without necessarily sacrificing solidity/compactness. It may also give Gini and Hendo a bit of a breather to recharge a bit and maybe just work on a few things so that they also improve their games because both have been pretty average for us this season so far.

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16391 on: October 21, 2019, 12:59:05 pm »
Couldn't agree more. Klopp's idea of a functional midfield seems to be Fab, Gini, Hendo, with Milner helping out in spells. Yes this midfield has let us down on some occasions, especially against low block teams.

Hopefully we will start seeing Fab, Gini, Keita or even more of Fab, Keita, Ox in the next few weeks. Getting Keita up to speed could revolutionise our season in my opinion.

This isn't true. This is the midfield he goes with when Keita, and Ox aren't available. He didn't bring both of these players so they wouldn't be picked. It's clear as day that he understands what the midfield can and can't do, and why those two were signed.

People go on about this like Klopp has left Keita on the bench for 12 months along with ox, and picked Fabinho,Henderson and Gini ahead of them without giving those a look in.


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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16392 on: October 21, 2019, 01:42:37 pm »
Given the minutes Hendo and Gini played for their countries I wasn't surprised we weren't as effective, we left all our fresh midfielders on the bench.
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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16393 on: October 21, 2019, 02:00:11 pm »
I agree. Henderson is doing his best, he has his pros and cons, but with Gini it just feels like there's a better player in there. He's fine of course, major part of our success, but he shows flashes of much more. Hos numbers for Holland and Newcastle support this feeling . Probably the only current starting player where I think Klopp never got the best out of a player.

I'm curious to see how he performs playing with Fab n Nab. Milner and Hendo have their strengths, positional discipline is not one of them (Can too). They tend to go wide at times and I think Gini holds back at times to cover space and protect against the counter. For the Oranje he is much freer to make forward runs.

One of the things I'm curious about is which Gini we will see when Naby is on the pitch with him.
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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16394 on: October 21, 2019, 03:19:18 pm »
I'm curious to see how he performs playing with Fab n Nab. Milner and Hendo have their strengths, positional discipline is not one of them (Can too). They tend to go wide at times and I think Gini holds back at times to cover space and protect against the counter. For the Oranje he is much freer to make forward runs.

One of the things I'm curious about is which Gini we will see when Naby is on the pitch with him.
That sounds reasonable, but yesterday Gini was active and attacking first. After the United goal he became passive and disappeared from the game, even though we needed to take more risks . That suggests that it's not tactical. And I really don't think it's a fitness thing.

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16395 on: October 21, 2019, 03:36:58 pm »
Gini is the glue that makes the midfield work a lot of the time. I think he probably needs to do more when we need him to (like yesterday), but he's press resistant and stays inside the midfield shape and is tactically aware and that is normally what we need him for. We need him in our midfield more often than not. Unless Keita can do that job longterm, he's not going anywhere. A Fab-Gini-Keita midfield would be totally different to what we saw yesterday. Henderson is offering nothing as an 8 currently, needs to be taken out of the firing line for a bit. Recharge batteries, come back fired up.

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16396 on: October 21, 2019, 04:09:40 pm »
Exciting times ahead.

Those last 20 mins is hopefully how our midfield will be looking like from now on. Packed with super talented players who are technically good enough to get closer to our front 3 players and actually combine and interchange with them instead of just watching from afar. It's gonna open up a ton of options in the final third. Not only will we be winning as much but we'll be doing it with much less effort and aggro.

There's a whole new level to this team that can maintain this ludicrous run and score more goals per game in the process - for this to happen our midfield will need to get closer to the world-class level of our defence and attack, necessary talent is already there imo.

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16397 on: October 21, 2019, 04:14:34 pm »
This isn't true. This is the midfield he goes with when Keita, and Ox aren't available. He didn't bring both of these players so they wouldn't be picked. It's clear as day that he understands what the midfield can and can't do, and why those two were signed.

People go on about this like Klopp has left Keita on the bench for 12 months along with ox, and picked Fabinho,Henderson and Gini ahead of them without giving those a look in.

He's gambled the season a fair bit on them getting back fully fit and staying fit and therefore not signing another creative midfielder/forward.
Could have done with Grujic and even Chirivella to tide us over this season

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16398 on: October 21, 2019, 04:28:44 pm »
He's gambled the season a fair bit on them getting back fully fit and staying fit and therefore not signing another creative midfielder/forward.

So it shows how much he values them.

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #16399 on: October 21, 2019, 05:50:07 pm »
He's gambled the season a fair bit on them getting back fully fit and staying fit and therefore not signing another creative midfielder/forward.
Gamble paying off so far. 6 points clear and he hasn’t even brought out the attacking mids much yet.
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