Topic: Age profile of the team

[clinical]

Not worried about this at all. Unless they all leave on frees and we have limited money to replace them over the next few years.

[El Lobo]

[RedSince86]

After all this club has done with recruitment the last 5 seasons you are worried about our future, we just signed Carvalho and look to be targeting a top MF this summer and our turnover is going to be hitting over £600 million by 23-24.

"Turning doubters into believers".

[ChaChaMooMoo]

Actually, you are right, its downhill from here on.

[Chakan Stevens]

Ah well it was fun while it lasted...

[Red-4-Ever]

Oh man, not this again

[ChaChaMooMoo]

Question time. Who is OP?

A) SteveO
B) Catcherintherye
C) Davek
D) Saint Domingo

Right answers get two peanuts and a bottle cap, courtesy of the people's club.

[ABZ Rover]

Are the schools off already?

[Chakan Stevens]

Question time. Who is OP?

A) SteveO
B) Catcherintherye
C) Davek
D) Saint Domingo

Right answers get two peanuts and a bottle cap, courtesy of the people's club.

I'm going with all of the above, it was a group collaboration.

[ChaChaMooMoo]

I'm going with all of the above, it was a group collaboration.

Maybe not Dave. I dont know. Its not long essay-like enough.

[Chakan Stevens]

Maybe not Dave. I dont know. Its not long essay-like enough.

He got overruled.

[El Lobo]

Worrying times.

[Mighty_Red]

My word, is this is what you post after the season we've had, I'd dread to see one of your posts in January after the Chelsea game. In one fell swoop we got Diaz and showed the sucession plan is already underway.

Klopp is here for 4 years so we will be there or thereabouts. No guarantees when you are up against a club who can outspend you and break every rule there is.

[Rush 82]

"uncertain times"^TM

[Chakan Stevens]

My word, is this is what you post after the season we've had, I'd dread to see one of your posts in January after the Chelsea game. In one fell swoop we got Diaz and showed the sucession plan is already underway.

Klopp is here for 4 years so we will be there or thereabouts. No guarantees when you are up against a club who can outspend you and break every rule there is.

Obviously a blue or manc on a wind up. A really piss poor attempt might I add.

Really try harder.

[TheMan]

Obviously I have full faith in the recruitment team. I was just a bit concerned after reading the last paragraph in Eamonn Sweeney's column in the Irish Independent. I am not worried or panicking or anything like that. I just feel that in order to maintain our extraordinary levels we need to address imminently the issue of acquiring more players in the 23 - 27 bracket.

[El Lobo]

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

Obviously I have full faith in the recruitment team. I was just a bit concerned after reading the last paragraph in Eamonn Sweeney's column in the Irish Independent. I am not worried or panicking or anything like that. I just feel that in order to maintain our extraordinary levels we need to address imminently the issue of acquiring more players in the 23 - 27 bracket.

Any chance you can post a copy of this

[TheMan]

Any chance you can post a copy of this

Last bit of it here, agree with almost all of this by the way:

"Champions League crown.

Klopp's achievement in running them close with a weaker squad is a miracle of management but can't be sustained for much longer. By the start of next season Mo Salah, Sadio Mane, Jordan Henderson, Virgil van Dijk, Joel Matip, Thiago, Alisson and Roberto Firmino will all have turned 30 while Andy Robertson and Fabinho will be 29. Klopp's great side is nearing its end.

City's key men are largely younger but that matters less than the club's ability to replace departed stars with high-quality replacements at will. Liverpool's effort this season was colossal but if winning 15 out of your last 18 league games and drawing the other three isn't enough to take the title, it's hard to see what will be.

Yet with Chelsea and Manchester United heading for a period of transition and Antonio Conte probably heading for Paris, Klopp's side should be the champions' closest rivals again next season. They just won't be as close as they were this term.

City should be grateful to Liverpool because without the challenge offered by the Reds their title triumph would seem an oddly bloodless and clinical achievement.

Guardiola, with typical good grace, has complained that everyone else wanted Liverpool to beat City.

The differing reactions of both sets of fans when their teams struggled in the second half showed why this is so. Anfield was a seething cauldron of anxious excitement with supporters trying to lift their team over the line by force of will.

Disbelief

The prevailing note at the Etihad, on the other hand, was a kind of sulky disbelief. "Why is this happening? We didn't pay for this kind of thing.” The contest between City and Liverpool is a contest between the synthetic and the organic. And we live in a synthetic age.

As the match neared the end of injury-time, Guardiola stalked along the sideline as if about to take the ball and go home with it.

Frantically, he managed to browbeat a weak referee into ending the game when an injury to Ederson meant there was probably another minute and a half left to play.

Villa would hardly have scored during those 90 seconds but, like his employers, Guardiola doesn't believe in leaving things to chance.

It was a fitting sign-off for a classless man in charge of a classless club run by classless people.

City are the perfect champions for the neo-liberal era, true believers in the creed that money makes its own morality. They are football's Facebook, its Twitter, its Airbnb, its Amazon, its one-per-centers. But they're not Liverpool and they never will be.

Only the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia Sovereign Wealth Fund and Newcastle United can save The People's Game now."

[Mouldy Christmas cake]

Worrying times.

"uncertain times"^TM

'We've Had Good Times™'

[Andar]

Let's look at this case by case to work out if this group can still compete at the top for the PL and CL:

Van Dijk - 30 (he has a good 3 years in him) / NO DANGER
Matip - 30 (he has a good 2 years in him) / NO DANGER
Thiago - 31 (he has a good 2 years in him) / NO DANGER
Henderson - 31 (signs of a drop-off but replaceable) / POTENTIAL REPLACEMENT NEEDED
Milner - 36 (squad player so his loss is not an impact) / REPLACEMENT NEEDED
Mane - 30 (he has a good 2 years in him) / NO DANGER
Salah - 30 (he has a good 4 years in him) / NO DANGER
Firmino - 30 (signs of a drop-off but replaceable) / REPLACEMENT NEEDED

Nothing to fret about at all. Just like with Diaz and Jota being signed with an eye on the future and the immediate, we can use the next 2-3 years to bring in quality for positions that could be susceptible for a drop-off. And with our world leading recruitment and Klopp as manager, you can guess it will continue going right.

[Le Westalero]

Last bit of it here, agree with almost all of this by the way:

"Champions League crown.

Klopp's achievement in running them close with a weaker squad is a miracle of management but can't be sustained for much longer. By the start of next season Mo Salah, Sadio Mane, Jordan Henderson, Virgil van Dijk, Joel Matip, Thiago, Alisson and Roberto Firmino will all have turned 30 while Andy Robertson and Fabinho will be 29. Klopp's great side is nearing its end.

City's key men are largely younger but that matters less than the club's ability to replace departed stars with high-quality replacements at will. Liverpool's effort this season was colossal but if winning 15 out of your last 18 league games and drawing the other three isn't enough to take the title, it's hard to see what will be.

Didn't want to get into this conversation but let's do it.

So simply from squad perspectives:

We got 27 players averaging 27.2 years. City has got 22 (23 with Haaland) and is averaging 27.6 years.

Foden is 21

Dias, Rodri  25

Grealish is 26

Laporte, Stones, Aké, Cancelo, Bernardo Silva, $terling 27

Ederson 28

De Bruyne is 30

Mahrez, Walker, Gündogan  31

So, they got one younger player in Foden, no natural back up RB, Zinchenko to cover the left flank and all in all a very thin squad. You saw 2 years back how it went for them when they had some injury problems. But their main man is 30 just as our main mains as VVD, Mané or Salah.

I think our squad is a healthy mix of young prospects and experience. As for our forwards, just look at Robben and Ribéry at Bayern, they played almost to their peak levels until at least 32/33?

I think our squad has at least 3 years in it to the highest levels. Especially if Mané continues to play in as No 9. I have no doubts about Salah achieving 20-25 + scorers every season until he or Klopp leaves.

Besides that Ali could play until 35/36 I guess. Kelleher is a superb back up Keeper.
Center backs tend to play until a higher age on exceptional levels just as Thiago Silva does, Maldini, Bonucci, Chiellini and so on.
Virgil and Matip are both 30 for your information. Regarding the injury records of both, I'd say that Virgil could play until 35, Matip I guess until 33.

We got Konaté who is 22. Andy 28, our scouse Greek who is 26. -> at least 4-5 years on current level.

If Gomez stays, he'd be a good cover for Trent. 25, respectively 23 years old.

Regarding our midfield, Fab as CDM could easily play until 32/33, Hendo has a role coming like Milner even if turning 34 or 35. Ox, yeah Ox.. I think he has a couple of season in him at Palace or Southampton.

We got young prospects as Eliott, Jones and Carvalho for the 8 or 10. Thiago who was superb this season could be here for another 2/3 years.

And our front line is sorted for the next 3-4 years IF Mané and Salah extend their contracts.

I just heard a couple of weeks ago that Bobby will be allowed to run down his contract and move on. So not considering him here that much, although I'd love to have him for some starts against weaker sides or some cameos.


BUT ALL IN ALL:

Comparing both sides form a squad point of view, I think somebody had some time to spare to right a genuine article (just like me today in this thread) but is missing the point and the difference between the physical condition of an individual. Their routine, our fitness and physio stuff and so on.

These observations were from my point of view. Of course nobody says a particular player will be here until the age of 34,35,36 but I think if we'll translate slowly our aging structure to younger players like we're doing for seasons now with the likes of Jota, Diaz, Eliott, Jones, Konaté, Tsimi and Kelleher, we'll be fine.

No need to worry dear "TheMan", this club is operated probably and we've got a lot of people with some knowledge to sort any kind of problems for the future out.

Until then, enjoy the present, there's a CL final waiting for our 'aging squad' 

[Fiasco]

Once Salah's pace goes and he can't score his pace goals no more then he wont be scoring many of his pace goals that he can only score because he has pace.

[JasonF]

Last bit of it here, agree with almost all of this by the way:

"Champions League crown.

Klopp's achievement in running them close with a weaker squad is a miracle of management but can't be sustained for much longer. By the start of next season Mo Salah, Sadio Mane, Jordan Henderson, Virgil van Dijk, Joel Matip, Thiago, Alisson and Roberto Firmino will all have turned 30 while Andy Robertson and Fabinho will be 29. Klopp's great side is nearing its end.

City's key men are largely younger but that matters less than the club's ability to replace departed stars with high-quality replacements at will. Liverpool's effort this season was colossal but if winning 15 out of your last 18 league games and drawing the other three isn't enough to take the title, it's hard to see what will be.

Yet with Chelsea and Manchester United heading for a period of transition and Antonio Conte probably heading for Paris, Klopp's side should be the champions' closest rivals again next season. They just won't be as close as they were this term.

City should be grateful to Liverpool because without the challenge offered by the Reds their title triumph would seem an oddly bloodless and clinical achievement.

Guardiola, with typical good grace, has complained that everyone else wanted Liverpool to beat City.

The differing reactions of both sets of fans when their teams struggled in the second half showed why this is so. Anfield was a seething cauldron of anxious excitement with supporters trying to lift their team over the line by force of will.

Disbelief

The prevailing note at the Etihad, on the other hand, was a kind of sulky disbelief. "Why is this happening? We didn't pay for this kind of thing.” The contest between City and Liverpool is a contest between the synthetic and the organic. And we live in a synthetic age.

As the match neared the end of injury-time, Guardiola stalked along the sideline as if about to take the ball and go home with it.

Frantically, he managed to browbeat a weak referee into ending the game when an injury to Ederson meant there was probably another minute and a half left to play.

Villa would hardly have scored during those 90 seconds but, like his employers, Guardiola doesn't believe in leaving things to chance.

It was a fitting sign-off for a classless man in charge of a classless club run by classless people.

City are the perfect champions for the neo-liberal era, true believers in the creed that money makes its own morality. They are football's Facebook, its Twitter, its Airbnb, its Amazon, its one-per-centers. But they're not Liverpool and they never will be.

Only the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia Sovereign Wealth Fund and Newcastle United can save The People's Game now."

"Klopp's side should be the champions' closest rivals again next season. They just won't be as close as they were this term"

What a load of shite. We've been the best team in the world since January, after starting the season with an unsettled defence. There's no way we're 14 points behind them at any stage next year. I'd bet on us coming out of the blocks flying again next season.

Not sure I agree about them having a better squad than us either really. We've improved drastically in that area. I've never seen a better squad than we've had available this year.

[Mighty_Red]

"Klopp's side should be the champions' closest rivals again next season. They just won't be as close as they were this term"

What a load of shite. We've been the best team in the world since January, after starting the season with an unsettled defence. There's no way we're 14 points behind them at any stage next year. I'd bet on us coming out of the blocks flying again next season.

Not sure I agree about them having a better squad than us either really. We've improved drastically in that area. I've never seen a better squad than we've had available this year.

Indeed, and that was the line trotted out in 2019 when we made no signings.

Squad age is only a problem if you never buy or replace anyone. Despite people's crying, we are replacing them just not maybe as quicker as twitter would like.

[Suareznumber7]

It was a good run

[killer-heels]

There was a point where maybe this was a concern but the signings of Konate, Tsimikas, Jota and Diaz have negated this completely as now at least 3 of those are genuine first team starters.

Also, pretty sure Robertson turned 28 only a few months ago. I get people get nervous when players are 30, but 28? Wow.

[Macc77]

As mentioned, this would only be relevant in a world where we don't have any intention of buying younger players in the next couple of years.

Alot of our lads are reaching an age where there will be a dip, but they will be replaced if they dip to the degree that they aren't producing. Two years ago Firmino was a guaranteed starter, he's now fifth choice. Two years ago Matip was a guaranteed starter, now he's rotated with Konate. Two years ago we couldn't imagine Robbo not playing, now we are content that Tsmikas can do a job.

If you follow the OPs logic we'd have been flogging Matip, Robbo and Firmino into the ground 60 times this season and failing, but guess what, we bought players and adapted. The thought that Klopp and the club won't continue to do so in the next few years is strange.

[Sinatra was Singing]

We faced this dilemma throughout the 70's and 80's and maintained our success, Paisley in particular was never sentimental about moving on aging players. In a 2 decade span we had a few cycles of players, some you would never imagine to be soon absent from the team sheet. We had the right recruitment process in place and managers who had that special eye for a diamond in the rough, not just the hype.

A recent example is Gerrard. As a young lad I couldn't imagine a time another player would lead out a Liverpool team. Who could have guessed Henderson would go on to do what he has done? Dalglish, that's who! And what's to say there isn't another captain in Jones in a couple of years, given the players he is surrounded by week in week out. We've all seen the potential at times.

The aging process is natural and necessary. It's nothing to fear, just accept it and enjoy the football (and life) experience that comes with it.

There was a point where maybe this was a concern but the signings of Konate, Tsimikas, Jota and Diaz have negated this completely as now at least 3 of those are genuine first team starters.

And our manager has an eye for a player that takes next to no time to bed in, we'll be fine.

[FLRed67]

"They just won't be as close as they were this term"

If so, it won't be because of squad age. It will be because those who control the league will have done a better job of ensuring it turns into the Serie A of two decades ago. There are definite improvements that they can make in that regard.

For instance, there were one or two opposition players sent off this season during LFC matches. No need for that sort of thing. Much more "competitive" if they are kept on the field. Obviously, referees can be provided with more "guidance" on this matter, before the start of next season.

But those old days in Italy - it was all so amateurish. Clubs being stripped of titles, being relegated, and what not. Sordid business.

Thank goodness the sovereign wealth funds are now heavily involved in the game, to spare the EPL any such embarrassment

Luckily, it's all much more professional now.

[didi shamone]

Eamonn Sweeney is a great journalist and one of the few who regularly calls out the sports washing regimes masquerading as footballer clubs. He makes some good points in that article but he's entirely wrong to say we'll be further away next season. Konate developing into a world class player and Diaz elevating us to new heights after Christmas are two things he hasn't factored. Van Dijk starting the season 100% fit is also a massive plus. We've already secured one young talent and I'd expect a midfielder to arrive too. We've got four more years of Klopp too which is a guarantee of consistent success. We're not going away.

[TheMan]

Problem is we need to maintain our 95% hit rate with regard to recruitment and even then they will just snap up proven players for big money like Haaland and Kalvin Phillips.

My main issue is we need more players who are ready now, who are between 23 - 27 and who we can trust to start key games. We only have a few of those, most of our trusted players are late 20's or turning 30 and we have some promising kids but we need to fill that middle demographic more (unfortunately these players are usually very expensive and have multiple clubs after them)

[El Lobo]

Problem is we need to maintain our 95% hit rate with regard to recruitment and even then they will just snap up proven players for big money like Haaland and Kalvin Phillips.

My main issue is we need more players who are ready now, who are between 23 - 27 and who we can trust to start key games. We only have a few of those, most of our trusted players are late 20's or turning 30 and we have some promising kids but we need to fill that middle demographic more (unfortunately these players are usually very expensive and have multiple clubs after them)

No we dont.

We have Trent, Gomez, Konate, Tsimikas, Keita, Jota, Kelleher and Diaz in that bracket, with Curtis and Harvey under it and also already having started key games for us. An area we seem to have a big advantage, is that we actually use our promising youngsters. Potentially add Kaide Gordon, Carvalho, Connor Bradley into the mix in the next season or two. And the players we're being linked with are of our usual 23/24 year old range.

At the start of next season you they will have Foden, Zinchenko, Dias, Grealish, Jesus, Rodri, Ake and Sterling in the same bracket (and thats if a few of them aren't binned off). Maybe three of them you'd consider 'key'.

Our older guys are at an age where players generally go later anyway (GK, CB, CM, attack). Considering how long goalies stay at the top level, I dont think we'll panic about Alisson being 29. Considering how long CBs stay at the top level, I dont think we'll panic about VVD and Joel being 30. Considering how long CMs stay at the top level, I dont think we'll panic about Fab being 28 and Thiago being 31. Considering 7 of the top 8 goal scorers in the league this season are 28 or older (and the one that isnt....is ours) I dont think we'll panic about Mo and Sadio being 30 and 29. Particularly when we've signed Diaz and Jota for less than you they paid for Jack fucking Grealish.

Your concern is appreciated, but our squad building has been tremendous which is why we've been able to maintain our success.

[Knight]

That article ends up distorting the reality of Liverpool's squad to serve his argument. His argument is, ultimately, right, but his points about Liverpool's squad aren't accurate.

The reality is our squad is currently stronger than City's. That's down to City decisions and us bringing in Diaz a little earlier than we initially planned but it's definitely true. We've basically got 2 top class players for every position. They don't at the moment.

Also, there's no reason we should be further away next season. We're probably watching Henderson and Firmino decline but we're definitely not seeing any of our other 30 somethings decline yet. I think there's an issue the season after next, because we need to work out how to replace some/ all of Firmino, Mane and Salah, but next season you'd imagine at least 2 of them will still be with us. The reality is if we bring in the high class 8 that we need, we'll have a stronger first 11 next season than this.   

[Jookie]

There was a point where maybe this was a concern but the signings of Konate, Tsimikas, Jota and Diaz have negated this completely as now at least 3 of those are genuine first team starters.

Also, pretty sure Robertson turned 28 only a few months ago. I get people get nervous when players are 30, but 28? Wow.

Agree and our transfer strategy over the last 3 years or so indicates the club knows it needs to continually refresh the squad.

Our last 11 senior signings since summer 2019 (current age in brackets):

Fabio Carvalho (19)
Luis Diaz (25)
Ibrahima Konate (22)
Diogo Jota (25)
Thiago (31)
Kostas Tsimikas (26)
Ben Davies (26)
Takumi Minamino (27)
Sepp van der Berg (20)
Harvey Elliott (19)
Adrian (36)

Beyond Adrian and Thiago, every other player signed was 25 or younger. It's clear that the club has a strategy to refresh the squad. Not to do it in one window but to continually refresh continually over years. I think that's where some people get worried. They expect the refresh to be 4 or 5 players coming in 1 window. I don't see it like that. Generally the top teams drop in 1-2 new players each season and use that to refresh over time.

In the list above Adrian and Thiago were bought for different reasons. 3rd choice experienced keeper and a world class player at a knockdown price.

So the club and Klopp are definitely aware of the need to have successions plans. Based on current evidence they are still finding magic in the transfer window. Diaz, Konate, Jota, Tsimikas, Elliott & Carvalho will all be part of our future planning.

It'd based on the evidence above that I'm not worried that much. The club are are aware of the need for younger players (and why wouldn't they be?) and seem to have succession plans in place. They've also shown so far that they can still identify the right targets and that they can integrate them into the current side and still be successful.

[Charlie Adams fried egg]

There was a point where maybe this was a concern but the signings of Konate, Tsimikas, Jota and Diaz have negated this completely as now at least 3 of those are genuine first team starters.

Also, pretty sure Robertson turned 28 only a few months ago. I get people get nervous when players are 30, but 28? Wow.

Is right. The transition of the squad is well underway.

[Roger Federer]

I don't understand anyone having a concers about our age profile, in fact, this is perhaps the most well balanced and best squad I can think of in all my years watching football. Certainly at Liverpool, and very close to the top regardless of team.

There have been better starting elevens, and squads filled with more superstars, but I'd say we've got an almost perfect blend of outstanding starting players (the best keeper, the best CB, two amazing fullbacks, two world class midfielders, and two, superfast, hard working goalscorers up front) backed by some 8-11 either excellent or at the very least solid players in all ages, who all know their role in the team and what Klopp demands of them. On top of that some great potential in the likes of Elliot, Jones and now Carvalho.

Now add that is Klopp staying here 4 more years (an eternity in football -just compare our team in 2015 with the one who won number 6 in 2019), that we once again got 90+ points in the league and will play our third final of the season this week,  and I don't know what exactly there is to worry about? I'm sure Klopp and his team are aware that Milner is 36 and that Salah or Thiago can't continue to be this good forever. But they are still years away from being any kind of concern and there is plenty of time to address that.

[Jookie]

Problem is we need to maintain our 95% hit rate with regard to recruitment and even then they will just snap up proven players for big money like Haaland and Kalvin Phillips.

My main issue is we need more players who are ready now, who are between 23 - 27 and who we can trust to start key games. We only have a few of those, most of our trusted players are late 20's or turning 30 and we have some promising kids but we need to fill that middle demographic more (unfortunately these players are usually very expensive and have multiple clubs after them)

I'd say you are over thinking this a bit.

We don't have a very old squad. The players who are 29-31 aren't going to fall off a cliff at any point in the next year or 2 (as a minimum). For some I'd guess we'll still get 2-4 years at an elite level. It would be different if all the key players were 33-34. We'll carry some players until they are that age but we'll replace others.

At the moment though we have  2-3 years for Kelleher, Elliott, Jones, Carvalho, Gordon and anyone else in U23s to progress. It's 2-3 years of transfer windows. Even if your hit rate is 50% then you are going to get 3 or 4 new 1st team players in that period.

In 2 years time we'll also likely have Alisson, TAA, Konate, Gomez, Tsimikas, Jota, Diaz in their prime. Keita, Robertson and Fabinho will only be touching 30. It doesn't feel like the ticking time bomb you are suggesting.

Only concern is that in 2 or 3 years time I think Milner might be close to entering the last season as a Liverpool player.

[Realgman]

Eamonn Sweeney is a great journalist and one of the few who regularly calls out the sports washing regimes masquerading as footballer clubs. He makes some good points in that article but he's entirely wrong to say we'll be further away next season. ...

yes and

That article ends up distorting the reality of Liverpool's squad to serve his argument. His argument is, ultimately, right, but his points about Liverpool's squad aren't accurate. ...

Yes

and yes

No we dont.

We have Trent, Gomez, Konate, Tsimikas, Keita, Jota, Kelleher and Diaz in that bracket, with Curtis and Harvey under it and also already having started key games for us. An area we seem to have a big advantage, is that we actually use our promising youngsters. Potentially add Kaide Gordon, Carvalho, Connor Bradley into the mix in the next season or two. And the players we're being linked with are of our usual 23/24 year old range...

Im my humble opinion, these 3 posts cover it all... its grand

[markedasred]

I'd even go a step further and say one or two players per window or season is the perfect speed of transition. Any more starts to become disruptive, especially when we have the closest thing to a well oiled precision machine in world football.