Author Topic: PL: Liverpool 4 vs Newcastle 0 - Lovren 12', Mo 48', Shaq 79', Fabinho 85'  (Read 36874 times)

Offline Romford_Red

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Re: PL: Liverpool 4 vs Newcastle 0 - Lovren 12', Mo 48', Shaq 79', Fabinho 85'
« Reply #400 on: December 27, 2018, 01:25:39 pm »
Yeah
That what Radio does. Saves his goals for the bigger games.

Alll we hear is, Sadio Ga Ga.



Or something.

Offline Ratboy3G

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Re: PL: Liverpool 4 vs Newcastle 0 - Lovren 12', Mo 48', Shaq 79', Fabinho 85'
« Reply #402 on: December 27, 2018, 01:41:58 pm »
Fantastic and professional victory, we did not spend too much energy. On to the next one!

Offline SerbianScouser

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Re: PL: Liverpool 4 vs Newcastle 0 - Lovren 12', Mo 48', Shaq 79', Fabinho 85'
« Reply #403 on: December 27, 2018, 01:43:20 pm »
Thought Firmino was our best player. Some of his touches were out of this world.
Me too, I thought he was fantastic in the first half in the way he found space and developed our moves.

Great flick for the Shaqiri chance, two wonderful chips for Mane, almost scored in the second on two occasions.

 He's getting better as a 10 all the time, after playing so long as a false 9 in a 433 he always needed time to adjust to the new role, he's not there yet but I think he's figuring it out slowly but surely. Still I think we'd need to get back to our well trusted 433 for these two big games but against the dross 4231 really seems like a way to go and in hope of not jinxing it it's like we totally figured out the dross in this league - 100% record so far and long may it continue.

Offline Bolrick

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Re: PL: Liverpool 4 vs Newcastle 0 - Lovren 12', Mo 48', Shaq 79', Fabinho 85'
« Reply #404 on: December 27, 2018, 01:50:19 pm »
+ BBC Pundits blast Liverpool's Mo Salah as he dives to win penalty against Newcastle United

Kevin Kilbane and Dion Dublin have blasted Liverpool's Mo Salah for diving in the game against Newcastle United - and subsequently wining a penalty.

With just a minute of the second half under-way, Salah raced into the United box and fell to ground after Paul Dummett tugged at his shoulder.

Referee Graham Scott immediately pointed to the spot, and Salah got up to make the score 2-0.

But BBC Final Score pundits Kilbane and Dublin were left far from impressed by Salah's antics - claiming that the Egyptian 'dived' and 'conned' the referee.


- https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/bbc-pundits-blast-livepools-mo-15597978

2 jobbers from ever$hit and MU............
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Offline Gaz123456

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Re: PL: Liverpool 4 vs Newcastle 0 - Lovren 12', Mo 48', Shaq 79', Fabinho 85'
« Reply #405 on: December 27, 2018, 02:47:53 pm »
Alll we hear is, Sadio Ga Ga.

You know what - I think you might have a song there!

Offline Djimi Smicer34

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Re: PL: Liverpool 4 vs Newcastle 0 - Lovren 12', Mo 48', Shaq 79', Fabinho 85'
« Reply #406 on: December 27, 2018, 02:49:45 pm »
+ BBC Pundits blast Liverpool's Mo Salah as he dives to win penalty against Newcastle United

Kevin Kilbane and Dion Dublin have blasted Liverpool's Mo Salah for diving in the game against Newcastle United - and subsequently wining a penalty.

With just a minute of the second half under-way, Salah raced into the United box and fell to ground after Paul Dummett tugged at his shoulder.

Referee Graham Scott immediately pointed to the spot, and Salah got up to make the score 2-0.

But BBC Final Score pundits Kilbane and Dublin were left far from impressed by Salah's antics - claiming that the Egyptian 'dived' and 'conned' the referee.


- https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/bbc-pundits-blast-livepools-mo-15597978

Pair of clowns.

Had it on for 2 minutes yesterday and Kilbane was sarcastically telling whoever was hosting it that he wasn't allowed to criticise Salah and Liverpool.

Mediocre players make very mediocre pundits.

Offline Wigwamdelbert

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Re: PL: Liverpool 4 vs Newcastle 0 - Lovren 12', Mo 48', Shaq 79', Fabinho 85'
« Reply #407 on: December 27, 2018, 02:55:18 pm »
Alll we hear is, Sadio Ga Ga.



Or something.
Sadio scores from near and from far
Sadio scores from near and from far
Off the post or off the bar, can't stop him, too good by far
Oh-a-aho oh
Oh-a-aho oh


Sadio scores...


Sorry, I'm a bit giddy after the football fest over Christmas ;D
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Re: PL: Liverpool 4 vs Newcastle 0 - Lovren 12', Mo 48', Shaq 79', Fabinho 85'
« Reply #408 on: December 27, 2018, 02:57:01 pm »
Kevin Kilbane and Dion Dublin have blasted Liverpool's Mo Salah for diving in the game against Newcastle United - and subsequently wining a penalty.

Kevin Kilbane is just a Thunderbirds bonus character.
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Offline Koplass

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Re: PL: Liverpool 4 vs Newcastle 0 - Lovren 12', Mo 48', Shaq 79', Fabinho 85'
« Reply #409 on: December 27, 2018, 03:04:25 pm »
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/liverpool-everton-news-result-fans-sign-on-chant-latest-standings-watch-video-goals-a8700481.html

Decent article in The Independent on this subject today. Worth a read.

"...songs that are led by those without the gumption to realise how self-defeating they are, those who are not creative or alert enough to come up with something new, something that admits of or exposes a wider reality."

This for me is the main reason these songs still get sung. Half of the people singing them are probably too young to even remember the period of time that sparked these chants and aren't politically literate (or just plain literate) enough to understand their significance. They need to educate themselves or their fellow supporters need to educate them but I won't hold my breath.

When they come from Manchester United fans though (as is mentioned in the article), it's a very different kettle of fish. They fully understand the political connotations behind the age-old 'sign on' but also newer songs that they've come up with ('you eat rats in your council house'). United's hatred of Liverpool is not just about football, they despise Scousers as a group of people. Their hatred is intense and vicious and loaded with political undertones. United fans perfectly represent Middle England and its sensibilities - the idea that the worst people in this country are poor people. People who claim benefits are 'scum', the working class are to be sneered at and worst of all are poor people who won't go down without a fight. They were 100% on board with Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson and his 'self-pity city' jibe, they still sing 'the Sun was right...' they sided with the political establishment, the right-wing press and a corrupt police force - and they still do. They call Liverpool fans 'bin dippers', there is absolutely no chance of any working class solidarity from that club or that city (the blue half aren't much better). Proper Daily Mail attitudes to life and genuine malice in their chanting.

Tory, Tory Man United.
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Offline stockdam

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Re: PL: Liverpool 4 vs Newcastle 0 - Lovren 12', Mo 48', Shaq 79', Fabinho 85'
« Reply #410 on: December 27, 2018, 03:04:58 pm »
Mediocre players make very mediocre pundits.

Dublin wasn't a mediocre player.......he was pretty decent.

However, it is getting tiring now about whether Salah "dived" or not. The key thing is that he was pulled and that the pull was deliberate and an attempt to affect his control of the ball. Anywhere else on the pitch, the ref would have blown and given a freekick even if Mo had stayed on his feet. I hate seeing dives but in this case it was a foul and a penalty irrespective of what Mo did.
#JFT97

Offline xbugawugax

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Re: PL: Liverpool 4 vs Newcastle 0 - Lovren 12', Mo 48', Shaq 79', Fabinho 85'
« Reply #411 on: December 27, 2018, 03:26:50 pm »
replace salah with any english player and it would be a non issue

the daily heil and other news outlet and pundits would probably praise the english player for being "smart" or whatever narrative they like to portray

top of the league. 6 points clear. and are we in full gear yet?

arsenal next. lets get another 3 points. and let the other teams  worry about catching us


Offline the_red_pill

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Re: PL: Liverpool 4 vs Newcastle 0 - Lovren 12', Mo 48', Shaq 79', Fabinho 85'
« Reply #412 on: December 27, 2018, 04:07:34 pm »
+ Sport Bible: Liverpool's Mohamed Salah Branded A Cheat For Shocking Dive

Liverpool were awarded a very, very soft penalty against Newcastle United.

Needless to say, Newcastle fans are furious.

In the second-half, Mohamed Salah was running down the wing - as he does - until he got clipped inside the box
under what appeared to be little contact from Paul Dummett.

But Graham Scott wasted no time in pointing to the spot.




- http://www.sportbible.com/football/news-reactions-liverpools-mohamed-salah-branded-a-cheat-for-shocking-dive-20181226
They can be furious all they want- doesn't take away from the scoreline. Still would've won 3-0 without that pen.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2018, 04:19:31 pm by the_red_pill »
"Some listen to understand. Others listen to respond."
"A fool does not delight in understanding, but only in revealing his own mind."
In such a sumptuous festival of shite, I wouldn't be so quick to pick a winner..

But he'd make the shortlist

Offline wige

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Re: PL: Liverpool 4 vs Newcastle 0 - Lovren 12', Mo 48', Shaq 79', Fabinho 85'
« Reply #413 on: December 27, 2018, 04:13:09 pm »
Is it Saturday yet? Need to watch the reds again  :butt

Offline McrRed

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Re: PL: Liverpool 4 vs Newcastle 0 - Lovren 12', Mo 48', Shaq 79', Fabinho 85'
« Reply #414 on: December 27, 2018, 04:28:10 pm »
"...songs that are led by those without the gumption to realise how self-defeating they are, those who are not creative or alert enough to come up with something new, something that admits of or exposes a wider reality."

This for me is the main reason these songs still get sung. Half of the people singing them are probably too young to even remember the period of time that sparked these chants and aren't politically literate (or just plain literate) enough to understand their significance. They need to educate themselves or their fellow supporters need to educate them but I won't hold my breath.

When they come from Manchester United fans though (as is mentioned in the article), it's a very different kettle of fish. They fully understand the political connotations behind the age-old 'sign on' but also newer songs that they've come up with ('you eat rats in your council house'). United's hatred of Liverpool is not just about football, they despise Scousers as a group of people. Their hatred is intense and vicious and loaded with political undertones. United fans perfectly represent Middle England and its sensibilities - the idea that the worst people in this country are poor people. People who claim benefits are 'scum', the working class are to be sneered at and worst of all are poor people who won't go down without a fight. They were 100% on board with Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson and his 'self-pity city' jibe, they still sing 'the Sun was right...' they sided with the political establishment, the right-wing press and a corrupt police force - and they still do. They call Liverpool fans 'bin dippers', there is absolutely no chance of any working class solidarity from that club or that city (the blue half aren't much better). Proper Daily Mail attitudes to life and genuine malice in their chanting.

Tory, Tory Man United.
It's complicated. Further complicated by the droves of utd fans that don't come from anywhere near Manchester so actually don't understand poverty and the way political decisions create and further poverty in people's lives.

One of my bugbears as a long time Manchester resident is hearing any working class club's supporters joining in the veiled political bullshit that is sign-on and all the other anti-scouse crap.

Offline NarutoReds

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Re: PL: Liverpool 4 vs Newcastle 0 - Lovren 12', Mo 48', Shaq 79', Fabinho 85'
« Reply #415 on: December 27, 2018, 05:00:35 pm »
Simple. If Salah is a diver... Then both Harry Kane and Dele Alli are...

 :-X  :-X
It's there to remind our lads who they're playing for and to remind the opposition who they're playing against!

Offline 12C

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Re: PL: Liverpool 4 vs Newcastle 0 - Lovren 12', Mo 48', Shaq 79', Fabinho 85'
« Reply #416 on: December 27, 2018, 05:38:16 pm »
Pair of clowns.

Had it on for 2 minutes yesterday and Kilbane was sarcastically telling whoever was hosting it that he wasn't allowed to criticise Salah and Liverpool.

Mediocre players make very mediocre pundits.

Mediocre is a very generous description of Kilbane.

Crap player in a crap team was my memory of him.
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Offline AmanShah21

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Re: PL: Liverpool 4 vs Newcastle 0 - Lovren 12', Mo 48', Shaq 79', Fabinho 85'
« Reply #417 on: December 27, 2018, 07:12:06 pm »
Mediocre is a very generous description of Kilbane.

Crap player in a crap team was my memory of him.
A journeyman footballer if ever there was

Here's the thing. This is essentially football journalism now. If you are crap at being insightful in your review/comments, the simplest way to get attention is to go and attack players or write articles to incite fan outrage for clickbait. The disgraceful thing is that it works. They pop up here more and more often too and all of us go and click on it and make it more popular. We need a new RAWK policy to ban these sort of links. They should not be getting any attention if they need to die out.

As for these pundits, I live here in the states where we have pretty much the worst bunch of these, Craig Burley, the two robbies, and even our own Stevie Nicol who just talk absolute nonsense week in week out. They are the bottom of the barrel TV pundits and they can only keep their jobs if they say sh*t which gets clicks and creates chatter. I really hope ESPN FC dies out, they are an absolute blight to Football intelligence in general.

I dont mind pointed criticism. Thats part of punditry but needs to be in measure. I used to like the John Dykes panel of old where there was a certain moderation to the conversation. Praise and Criticism were never OTT like now and nobody got fixated with individuals. This new era of punditry is awful.

Offline Caligula?

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Re: PL: Liverpool 4 vs Newcastle 0 - Lovren 12', Mo 48', Shaq 79', Fabinho 85'
« Reply #418 on: December 27, 2018, 07:25:31 pm »
The narrative's been set. Salah's not going to get another penalty this season even if he's shot inside the penalty area, and expect an absolutely shocking decision to go against us in the upcoming weeks. Refs are humans too. They support football clubs as well. They'll buy into the narrative and one of them will fuck us over just to get one over us because of this and because we're probably the most hated team in the land right about now.

Offline deFacto please, you bastards

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Re: PL: Liverpool 4 vs Newcastle 0 - Lovren 12', Mo 48', Shaq 79', Fabinho 85'
« Reply #419 on: December 27, 2018, 07:36:34 pm »
The narrative's been set. Salah's not going to get another penalty this season even if he's shot inside the penalty area, and expect an absolutely shocking decision to go against us in the upcoming weeks. Refs are humans too. They support football clubs as well. They'll buy into the narrative and one of them will fuck us over just to get one over us because of this and because we're probably the most hated team in the land right about now.

We've hardly been getting penalties as it is. So it can't be worse than what it already is. Nothing new here.

Offline Caligula?

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Re: PL: Liverpool 4 vs Newcastle 0 - Lovren 12', Mo 48', Shaq 79', Fabinho 85'
« Reply #420 on: December 27, 2018, 07:38:50 pm »
We've hardly been getting penalties as it is. So it can't be worse than what it already is. Nothing new here.

It can get worse if every soft decision starts going against us. And I don't mean not being able to win penalties anymore, but giving them away.

Offline deFacto please, you bastards

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Re: PL: Liverpool 4 vs Newcastle 0 - Lovren 12', Mo 48', Shaq 79', Fabinho 85'
« Reply #421 on: December 27, 2018, 07:46:33 pm »
It can get worse if every soft decision starts going against us. And I don't mean not being able to win penalties anymore, but giving them away.

I think you're panicking just a bit wee much.

Offline redgriffin73

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Re: PL: Liverpool 4 vs Newcastle 0 - Lovren 12', Mo 48', Shaq 79', Fabinho 85'
« Reply #422 on: December 27, 2018, 08:16:48 pm »
The narrative's been set. Salah's not going to get another penalty this season even if he's shot inside the penalty area, and expect an absolutely shocking decision to go against us in the upcoming weeks. Refs are humans too. They support football clubs as well. They'll buy into the narrative and one of them will fuck us over just to get one over us because of this and because we're probably the most hated team in the land right about now.
We'll be able to resurrect our When Suarez Gets a Pen song for Salah.
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Re: PL: Liverpool 4 vs Newcastle 0 - Lovren 12', Mo 48', Shaq 79', Fabinho 85'
« Reply #423 on: December 27, 2018, 08:25:59 pm »
We've hardly been getting penalties as it is. So it can't be worse than what it already is. Nothing new here.

Exactly. So it'll be 3 years til our next Anfield penalty instead of 2. Oh noes, panic stations.

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Re: PL: Liverpool 4 vs Newcastle 0 - Lovren 12', Mo 48', Shaq 79', Fabinho 85'
« Reply #424 on: December 28, 2018, 12:01:52 am »
It can get worse if every soft decision starts going against us. And I don't mean not being able to win penalties anymore, but giving them away.
I’m sure pawson was allocated before this incident
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Offline E2K

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Re: PL: Liverpool 4 vs Newcastle 0 - Lovren 12', Mo 48', Shaq 79', Fabinho 85'
« Reply #425 on: December 28, 2018, 12:15:15 am »
In the immortal words of Virgil Van Dijk: “who cares?”

The man of the moment, Mauricio Pochettino, surely on his way to leading Spurs to quadruple glory before wrestling the Old Trafford reins away from the baby-faced managerial legend next summer, once said of diving that itֹ’s “a small detail” after two of his players, one of them English and the best striker in the world according to at least one half of the Neville school for special pundits, had blatantly dived for two penalties at Anfield. There was no major wringing of hands at that point, as far as I recall, so the moral outrage in the aftermath of yesterday’s game has me at a loss. Morals?? In this fucking sport?? Do me a favour. Hypocrisy, on the other hand...

Which is, of course, to say nothing of the factual reality that this was clearly a foul. Clearly. Paul Dummett himself knew better than anyone — his sheepish acceptance of the referee’s decision was writ large across his face for all to see. We all know that your typical footballer loves a good argument with a match official, often over something as mundane as the award of a throw, but the Newcastle United man said nothing.

He took a calculated risk, you see, the kind you too might feel fully justified in taking if the team you were playing against hadn’t been awarded a penalty at home in the Premier League in over a year. He attempted to slow the rapid forward progress of Liverpool’s Egyptian genius by sneakily and momentarily grabbing his arm, thereby hoping to throw him off balance and give his teammate a better chance to clear the ball. In the process, he dared the referee to make a decision where so many before him had failed to do so, most recently when Victor Lindelof barged Salah in the back with arm and shoulder at 0-0 against Manchester United a couple of weeks back.

Bear in mind, too, that Salah is a player who has recently felt the full, considerable bulk of Steve Cook raking his studs down his Achilles tendon at Bournemouth and stayed on his feet to score. Even more recently, he failed to collapse at the Kop end at 1-0 during the second-half of the crucial Champions League decider against Napoli when David Ospina came haring off his line and made contact with him, instead trying (and failing) to chip the Colombian in a move that had yours truly wondering aloud why our players are so stupid. You won’t hear about these moments as the witch-hunt gathers pace over the coming weeks and months, but they are important points to note in order to understand Dummett’s mental process for the penalty incident yesterday, because he would have no doubt felt hugely confident at the prospect of his opponent trying to stay on his feet and score despite the foul.

He couldn’t have known that on this occasion: (a) Salah would also dare the referee to make a decision, and (b) even more shockingly, Mr. Scott would make the correct call. Hey, sometimes it happens. Sometimes it doesn’t and you get away with it. That’s football. What mystifies me, though, quite aside from what was going through the Newcastle defender’s head taking such a risk when it was only “one-season wonder” Mo Salah that was bearing down on his penalty area, was why a legendary former defender like Phil Neville was so reticent to give Dummett due credit later that night for as good a tactical foul as you’ll see on a purely technical level, given that he even cleverly shielded the action from the view of the linesman with his body in the process.

Phil knows the dark arts of defending. This is a man who has scored an own-goal, given away a (winning) penalty and been sent off (twice) in Merseyside derbies, a terrifying trifecta matched only by the time he gave away a penalty in the dying seconds against Romania to knock England out of Euro 2000. Surely he, of all people, knows better than to sacrifice praise for the cunning, old-school and, above all, manly goddammit exploits of a fellow member of the left-back club at the altar of labelling Johnny Foreigner a cheat for the millionth time. Surely to God we’re past that now? Surely to God we’ve been past that since Michael Owen played the Argies at their own game in 1998, falling like a little feather at the attentions of Roberto Ayala? Weep for Paul Dummett, brothers and sisters — unappreciated in his own time, even by his own kind. An unholy future union with Sean Dyche surely awaits.

Joking aside...Phil Neville knows fuck all about anything, and if he does, he’s a gifted actor. This is a man who for many years plied his trade at Goodison Park, a place where any opposition contact with the ball above shinpad-level results in a chorus of “HANDBALL!!!” and “PENALTY!!!” from the stands. His perspective on penalties should therefore be afforded much the same regard as the rage-filled screams of your average Bluenose round Goodison way of a Saturday afternoon.

Speaking of Nevilles, earlier this year Phil’s brother Gary stated in commentary for Sky that Erik Lamela’s aforementioned Defoe-in-Platoon-style collapse at the merest touch of Van Dijk’s knee at Anfield was a definite penalty. To be fair, for the entirety of Neville’s playing career under Alex Ferguson at Manchester United it probably would have been a stonewall penalty for any player wearing red at Old Trafford, certainly lest the referee be forced to run for his life with eleven psychopaths at his heels. So maybe his opinion, and that of every click-baiting, hot-taking pundit on this subject and many others, should be taken with a grain of salt too?

I mean, football supporters are, to a greater or lesser extent, all hypocrites when it comes to this kind of stuff, aren’t we? We normally couldn’t be objective to save our lives, although I recall the vast majority of us readily admitting that the foul which most closely resembles Dummett’s that I can think of (Dirk Kuyt grabbing Aleksandr Hleb’s arm in a very similar manner against Arsenal during the first leg of the Champions League quarter-final at the Emirates in 2008) was a stonewall penalty, just like Saturday, and how relieved we were that the ref missed it. But, and it feels stupid even saying it at this point, the entire point of this football analysis business is supposed to be objectivity. Newcastle were on a hiding (to nothing, plus just a hiding) either way yesterday. It’s ridiculous that an already-truncated show like Match of the Day wasted precious seconds discussing it at all.

The fear for the Nevilles and all the rest must now be that it really doesn’t matter anymore. The referee could have waved Dummett’s foul away or Salah could have dived for twenty more penalties, it simply wouldn’t have mattered, not really. Newcastle were beaten yesterday once Lovren’s screamer nearly ripped the back of the Kop-end net off. The game could have ended 1-0, 2-0 or 3-0, 10-0, it doesn’t matter. Like 12 of the other 19 Premier League teams this season, Newcastle were never scoring in this game. Neither would Manchester United or Leicester City had it not been for goalkeeping errors. The rest of the current top-5, also second-to-fifth on the scoring charts (Arsenal, Chelsea, Manchester City and Spurs), have managed 3 goals in 360 minutes against us so far. Burnley’s goal was offside and involved a foul on the goalkeeper. Cardiff’s was a mere consolation in a 4-1 defeat.

Prior to yesterday, over 400 days had passed since a referee last gave Liverpool a home penalty in the Premier League, during which time the media persisted with the risible party line, the utter delusion, that the Anfield crowd influences officials, in the face of all available evidence to the contrary. After a disgraceful decision against Stoke towards the end of last season (a blatant handball), for example, one that could have ultimately cost Liverpool Champions League football, it was Klopp’s opposite number Paul Lambert who complained about the officials. The German merely blanked the linesman on the post-match handshake and said very little more about it. Liverpool — players, manager, coaches, supporters — don’t intimidate officials, they don’t even try, and if they do, they’re terrible at it. Truly.

Me, I think we should be tormenting officials at every turn, just like every successful team of the past three decades — e.g. Ferguson’s Manchester United, every side coached by Guardiola and Mourinho, Real Madrid regardless of manager, Chelsea under multiple managers, Spain — have done, because it’s an edge that we will continue to be unable to avail of while Klopp’s outbursts are limited to ear-bashing the fourth official during the 90 minutes and his players’ influence limited to Hendo or Milner having a quiet word with the referee. Needless to say, had Dejan Lovren driven Cristiano Ronaldo’s head and shoulder into the Kiev turf last May, there would have been a second Spanish inquisition in the NSC Olimpiyskiy Stadium.

Whatever Liverpool achieve under Klopp, they're going to do it the honest way, or at least as honest as anyone gets these days. Translation: they're going to do it the hard way. So fuck tainting any of our players as cheats, especially when we're getting no rewards for it on the pitch.

So under the circumstances, I’m sure the boys will forgive me if I don’t give two shits whether Mo Salah embellished his fall yesterday, but I will say that it’s just good manners to wait until a player has actually cheated before wringing your hands in moral outrage, like that time another utter fool accused Luis Suárez of kissing the tattoos of his family’s names on his wrist as a means of rubbing Mansfield Town’s noses in his fiendishness after a goal that came off his hand. Now that the Uruguayan’s accursed jockstrap has passed to the Egyptian King, we can but hope that he at least washed it first.

In the meantime, let us acknowledge that without a single penalty in over a year of home games, all the more incredible given the speed and precision of their attack, Liverpool were still good enough to secure a top-4 finish in May and sit undefeated at the top of the table in late-December. Imagine how good they’d be if they actually got their share of penalties? Maybe Phil, Kevin, Dion and the rest are scared that we’re about to find out?

Referees giving penalties for fouls, though, eh? The game is fucked.
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Offline jckliew

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Re: PL: Liverpool 4 vs Newcastle 0 - Lovren 12', Mo 48', Shaq 79', Fabinho 85'
« Reply #426 on: December 28, 2018, 12:56:07 am »
Me too, I thought he was fantastic in the first half in the way he found space and developed our moves.

Great flick for the Shaqiri chance, two wonderful chips for Mane, almost scored in the second on two occasions.

 He's getting better as a 10 all the time, after playing so long as a false 9 in a 433 he always needed time to adjust to the new role, he's not there yet but I think he's figuring it out slowly but surely. Still I think we'd need to get back to our well trusted 433 for these two big games but against the dross 4231 really seems like a way to go and in hope of not jinxing it it's like we totally figured out the dross in this league - 100% record so far and long may it continue.
Agree totally.

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Re: PL: Liverpool 4 vs Newcastle 0 - Lovren 12', Mo 48', Shaq 79', Fabinho 85'
« Reply #427 on: December 28, 2018, 01:07:16 am »
In the immortal words of Virgil Van Dijk: “who cares?”

The man of the moment, Mauricio Pochettino, surely on his way to leading Spurs to quadruple glory before wrestling the Old Trafford reins away from the baby-faced managerial legend next summer, once said of diving that itֹ’s “a small detail” after two of his players, one of them English and the best striker in the world according to at least one half of the Neville school for special pundits, had blatantly dived for two penalties at Anfield. There was no major wringing of hands at that point, as far as I recall, so the moral outrage in the aftermath of yesterday’s game has me at a loss. Morals?? In this fucking sport?? Do me a favour. Hypocrisy, on the other hand...

Which is, of course, to say nothing of the factual reality that this was clearly a foul. Clearly. Paul Dummett himself knew better than anyone — his sheepish acceptance of the referee’s decision was writ large across his face for all to see. We all know that your typical footballer loves a good argument with a match official, often over something as mundane as the award of a throw, but the Newcastle United man said nothing.

He took a calculated risk, you see, the kind you too might feel fully justified in taking if the team you were playing against hadn’t been awarded a penalty at home in the Premier League in over a year. He attempted to slow the rapid forward progress of Liverpool’s Egyptian genius by sneakily and momentarily grabbing his arm, thereby hoping to throw him off balance and give his teammate a better chance to clear the ball. In the process, he dared the referee to make a decision where so many before him had failed to do so, most recently when Victor Lindelof barged Salah in the back with arm and shoulder at 0-0 against Manchester United a couple of weeks back.

Bear in mind, too, that Salah is a player who has recently felt the full, considerable bulk of Steve Cook raking his studs down his Achilles tendon at Bournemouth and stayed on his feet to score. Even more recently, he failed to collapse at the Kop end at 1-0 during the second-half of the crucial Champions League decider against Napoli when David Ospina came haring off his line and made contact with him, instead trying (and failing) to chip the Colombian in a move that had yours truly wondering aloud why our players are so stupid. You won’t hear about these moments as the witch-hunt gathers pace over the coming weeks and months, but they are important points to note in order to understand Dummett’s mental process for the penalty incident yesterday, because he would have no doubt felt hugely confident at the prospect of his opponent trying to stay on his feet and score despite the foul.

He couldn’t have known that on this occasion: (a) Salah would also dare the referee to make a decision, and (b) even more shockingly, Mr. Scott would make the correct call. Hey, sometimes it happens. Sometimes it doesn’t and you get away with it. That’s football. What mystifies me, though, quite aside from what was going through the Newcastle defender’s head taking such a risk when it was only “one-season wonder” Mo Salah that was bearing down on his penalty area, was why a legendary former defender like Phil Neville was so reticent to give Dummett due credit later that night for as good a tactical foul as you’ll see on a purely technical level, given that he even cleverly shielded the action from the view of the linesman with his body in the process.

Phil knows the dark arts of defending. This is a man who has scored an own-goal, given away a (winning) penalty and been sent off (twice) in Merseyside derbies, a terrifying trifecta matched only by the time he gave away a penalty in the dying seconds against Romania to knock England out of Euro 2000. Surely he, of all people, knows better than to sacrifice praise for the cunning, old-school and, above all, manly goddammit exploits of a fellow member of the left-back club at the altar of labelling Johnny Foreigner a cheat for the millionth time. Surely to God we’re past that now? Surely to God we’ve been past that since Michael Owen played the Argies at their own game in 1998, falling like a little feather at the attentions of Roberto Ayala? Weep for Paul Dummett, brothers and sisters — unappreciated in his own time, even by his own kind. An unholy future union with Sean Dyche surely awaits.

Joking aside...Phil Neville knows fuck all about anything, and if he does, he’s a gifted actor. This is a man who for many years plied his trade at Goodison Park, a place where any opposition contact with the ball above shinpad-level results in a chorus of “HANDBALL!!!” and “PENALTY!!!” from the stands. His perspective on penalties should therefore be afforded much the same regard as the rage-filled screams of your average Bluenose round Goodison way of a Saturday afternoon.

Speaking of Nevilles, earlier this year Phil’s brother Gary stated in commentary for Sky that Erik Lamela’s aforementioned Defoe-in-Platoon-style collapse at the merest touch of Van Dijk’s knee at Anfield was a definite penalty. To be fair, for the entirety of Neville’s playing career under Alex Ferguson at Manchester United it probably would have been a stonewall penalty for any player wearing red at Old Trafford, certainly lest the referee be forced to run for his life with eleven psychopaths at his heels. So maybe his opinion, and that of every click-baiting, hot-taking pundit on this subject and many others, should be taken with a grain of salt too?

I mean, football supporters are, to a greater or lesser extent, all hypocrites when it comes to this kind of stuff, aren’t we? We normally couldn’t be objective to save our lives, although I recall the vast majority of us readily admitting that the foul which most closely resembles Dummett’s that I can think of (Dirk Kuyt grabbing Aleksandr Hleb’s arm in a very similar manner against Arsenal during the first leg of the Champions League quarter-final at the Emirates in 2008) was a stonewall penalty, just like Saturday, and how relieved we were that the ref missed it. But, and it feels stupid even saying it at this point, the entire point of this football analysis business is supposed to be objectivity. Newcastle were on a hiding (to nothing, plus just a hiding) either way yesterday. It’s ridiculous that an already-truncated show like Match of the Day wasted precious seconds discussing it at all.

The fear for the Nevilles and all the rest must now be that it really doesn’t matter anymore. The referee could have waved Dummett’s foul away or Salah could have dived for twenty more penalties, it simply wouldn’t have mattered, not really. Newcastle were beaten yesterday once Lovren’s screamer nearly ripped the back of the Kop-end net off. The game could have ended 1-0, 2-0 or 3-0, 10-0, it doesn’t matter. Like 12 of the other 19 Premier League teams this season, Newcastle were never scoring in this game. Neither would Manchester United or Leicester City had it not been for goalkeeping errors. The rest of the current top-5, also second-to-fifth on the scoring charts (Arsenal, Chelsea, Manchester City and Spurs), have managed 3 goals in 360 minutes against us so far. Burnley’s goal was offside and involved a foul on the goalkeeper. Cardiff’s was a mere consolation in a 4-1 defeat.

Prior to yesterday, over 400 days had passed since a referee last gave Liverpool a home penalty in the Premier League, during which time the media persisted with the risible party line, the utter delusion, that the Anfield crowd influences officials, in the face of all available evidence to the contrary. After a disgraceful decision against Stoke towards the end of last season (a blatant handball), for example, one that could have ultimately cost Liverpool Champions League football, it was Klopp’s opposite number Paul Lambert who complained about the officials. The German merely blanked the linesman on the post-match handshake and said very little more about it. Liverpool — players, manager, coaches, supporters — don’t intimidate officials, they don’t even try, and if they do, they’re terrible at it. Truly.

Me, I think we should be tormenting officials at every turn, just like every successful team of the past three decades — e.g. Ferguson’s Manchester United, every side coached by Guardiola and Mourinho, Real Madrid regardless of manager, Chelsea under multiple managers, Spain — have done, because it’s an edge that we will continue to be unable to avail of while Klopp’s outbursts are limited to ear-bashing the fourth official during the 90 minutes and his players’ influence limited to Hendo or Milner having a quiet word with the referee. Needless to say, had Dejan Lovren driven Cristiano Ronaldo’s head and shoulder into the Kiev turf last May, there would have been a second Spanish inquisition in the NSC Olimpiyskiy Stadium.

Whatever Liverpool achieve under Klopp, they're going to do it the honest way, or at least as honest as anyone gets these days. Translation: they're going to do it the hard way. So fuck tainting any of our players as cheats, especially when we're getting no rewards for it on the pitch.

So under the circumstances, I’m sure the boys will forgive me if I don’t give two shits whether Mo Salah embellished his fall yesterday, but I will say that it’s just good manners to wait until a player has actually cheated before wringing your hands in moral outrage, like that time another utter fool accused Luis Suárez of kissing the tattoos of his family’s names on his wrist as a means of rubbing Mansfield Town’s noses in his fiendishness after a goal that came off his hand. Now that the Uruguayan’s accursed jockstrap has passed to the Egyptian King, we can but hope that he at least washed it first.

In the meantime, let us acknowledge that without a single penalty in over a year of home games, all the more incredible given the speed and precision of their attack, Liverpool were still good enough to secure a top-4 finish in May and sit undefeated at the top of the table in late-December. Imagine how good they’d be if they actually got their share of penalties? Maybe Phil, Kevin, Dion and the rest are scared that we’re about to find out?

Referees giving penalties for fouls, though, eh? The game is fucked.

Great post mate.
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Offline harleydanger

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Re: PL: Liverpool 4 vs Newcastle 0 - Lovren 12', Mo 48', Shaq 79', Fabinho 85'
« Reply #428 on: December 28, 2018, 01:12:15 am »
Chuckled at how the very first response was, "I agree with everything you said - but Salah still dived and should be banned". :lmao

I know it smacks of whataboutism, but when you consider the serial diving and antics of other players, responses like this beggar belief.

It's the footballing equivalent of 'I'm not a scientist, just a mum with a gut feeling so i won't be vaccinating my children'
WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE!

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Offline SingFongFC

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Re: PL: Liverpool 4 vs Newcastle 0 - Lovren 12', Mo 48', Shaq 79', Fabinho 85'
« Reply #429 on: December 28, 2018, 01:13:22 am »
snip

Absolutely brilliant post! Enjoyed reading that immensely

Offline hesbighesred

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Re: PL: Liverpool 4 vs Newcastle 0 - Lovren 12', Mo 48', Shaq 79', Fabinho 85'
« Reply #430 on: December 28, 2018, 01:16:03 am »
The fear for the Nevilles and all the rest must now be that it really doesn’t matter anymore.
That's the ticket, isn't it? I remember Alan_X talking about this last season - that you've got to get yourself to a position where the decisions just don't matter anymore. Is that the case for us? Is there a possibility that we'll build a reputation of purity, or will that be where the media narrative concentrates itself to try and create a weakness where there is none?
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Offline vagabond

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Re: PL: Liverpool 4 vs Newcastle 0 - Lovren 12', Mo 48', Shaq 79', Fabinho 85'
« Reply #431 on: December 28, 2018, 01:18:59 am »

Whatever Liverpool achieve under Klopp, they're going to do it the honest way, or at least as honest as anyone gets these days. Translation: they're going to do it the hard way. So fuck tainting any of our players as cheats, especially when we're getting no rewards for it on the pitch.


It might be the hard way, but I prefer it. Speaking just for myself of course, but this is the entertainment business and there's something romantic about a good story with a noble hero.
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Offline Bobinhood

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Re: PL: Liverpool 4 vs Newcastle 0 - Lovren 12', Mo 48', Shaq 79', Fabinho 85'
« Reply #432 on: December 28, 2018, 01:22:51 am »
so as i understand it, the FA reluctantly decided they couldn't cite him for a dive, because actually, he'd been pulled back. So it didn't meet the criteria for diving punishment in that he'd been grasped with a hand, and physically pulled back. In the opposite direction in which he had been going.

who knew such a loophole existed. FA should probably strike a committee to have another look at that.
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Re: PL: Liverpool 4 vs Newcastle 0 - Lovren 12', Mo 48', Shaq 79', Fabinho 85'
« Reply #433 on: December 28, 2018, 01:55:40 am »
where is pre match thread for tomorrow game?

The game is on Saturday mate.

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Re: PL: Liverpool 4 vs Newcastle 0 - Lovren 12', Mo 48', Shaq 79', Fabinho 85'
« Reply #434 on: December 28, 2018, 02:22:26 am »
The game is on Saturday mate.
my bad! its Friday 7:50 am here ;D

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Re: PL: Liverpool 4 vs Newcastle 0 - Lovren 12', Mo 48', Shaq 79', Fabinho 85'
« Reply #435 on: December 28, 2018, 04:30:23 am »
E2K  :scarf

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Re: PL: Liverpool 4 vs Newcastle 0 - Lovren 12', Mo 48', Shaq 79', Fabinho 85'
« Reply #436 on: December 28, 2018, 04:40:07 am »
my bad! its Friday 7:50 am here ;D
Are you around Turkey, Georgia or Russia there, mate?
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Re: PL: Liverpool 4 vs Newcastle 0 - Lovren 12', Mo 48', Shaq 79', Fabinho 85'
« Reply #437 on: December 28, 2018, 05:12:37 am »
In the immortal words of Virgil Van Dijk: “who cares?”

The man of the moment, Mauricio Pochettino, surely on his way to leading Spurs to quadruple glory before wrestling the Old Trafford reins away from the baby-faced managerial legend next summer, once said of diving that itֹ’s “a small detail” after two of his players, one of them English and the best striker in the world according to at least one half of the Neville school for special pundits, had blatantly dived for two penalties at Anfield. There was no major wringing of hands at that point, as far as I recall, so the moral outrage in the aftermath of yesterday’s game has me at a loss. Morals?? In this fucking sport?? Do me a favour. Hypocrisy, on the other hand...

Which is, of course, to say nothing of the factual reality that this was clearly a foul. Clearly. Paul Dummett himself knew better than anyone — his sheepish acceptance of the referee’s decision was writ large across his face for all to see. We all know that your typical footballer loves a good argument with a match official, often over something as mundane as the award of a throw, but the Newcastle United man said nothing.

He took a calculated risk, you see, the kind you too might feel fully justified in taking if the team you were playing against hadn’t been awarded a penalty at home in the Premier League in over a year. He attempted to slow the rapid forward progress of Liverpool’s Egyptian genius by sneakily and momentarily grabbing his arm, thereby hoping to throw him off balance and give his teammate a better chance to clear the ball. In the process, he dared the referee to make a decision where so many before him had failed to do so, most recently when Victor Lindelof barged Salah in the back with arm and shoulder at 0-0 against Manchester United a couple of weeks back.

Bear in mind, too, that Salah is a player who has recently felt the full, considerable bulk of Steve Cook raking his studs down his Achilles tendon at Bournemouth and stayed on his feet to score. Even more recently, he failed to collapse at the Kop end at 1-0 during the second-half of the crucial Champions League decider against Napoli when David Ospina came haring off his line and made contact with him, instead trying (and failing) to chip the Colombian in a move that had yours truly wondering aloud why our players are so stupid. You won’t hear about these moments as the witch-hunt gathers pace over the coming weeks and months, but they are important points to note in order to understand Dummett’s mental process for the penalty incident yesterday, because he would have no doubt felt hugely confident at the prospect of his opponent trying to stay on his feet and score despite the foul.

He couldn’t have known that on this occasion: (a) Salah would also dare the referee to make a decision, and (b) even more shockingly, Mr. Scott would make the correct call. Hey, sometimes it happens. Sometimes it doesn’t and you get away with it. That’s football. What mystifies me, though, quite aside from what was going through the Newcastle defender’s head taking such a risk when it was only “one-season wonder” Mo Salah that was bearing down on his penalty area, was why a legendary former defender like Phil Neville was so reticent to give Dummett due credit later that night for as good a tactical foul as you’ll see on a purely technical level, given that he even cleverly shielded the action from the view of the linesman with his body in the process.

Phil knows the dark arts of defending. This is a man who has scored an own-goal, given away a (winning) penalty and been sent off (twice) in Merseyside derbies, a terrifying trifecta matched only by the time he gave away a penalty in the dying seconds against Romania to knock England out of Euro 2000. Surely he, of all people, knows better than to sacrifice praise for the cunning, old-school and, above all, manly goddammit exploits of a fellow member of the left-back club at the altar of labelling Johnny Foreigner a cheat for the millionth time. Surely to God we’re past that now? Surely to God we’ve been past that since Michael Owen played the Argies at their own game in 1998, falling like a little feather at the attentions of Roberto Ayala? Weep for Paul Dummett, brothers and sisters — unappreciated in his own time, even by his own kind. An unholy future union with Sean Dyche surely awaits.

Joking aside...Phil Neville knows fuck all about anything, and if he does, he’s a gifted actor. This is a man who for many years plied his trade at Goodison Park, a place where any opposition contact with the ball above shinpad-level results in a chorus of “HANDBALL!!!” and “PENALTY!!!” from the stands. His perspective on penalties should therefore be afforded much the same regard as the rage-filled screams of your average Bluenose round Goodison way of a Saturday afternoon.

Speaking of Nevilles, earlier this year Phil’s brother Gary stated in commentary for Sky that Erik Lamela’s aforementioned Defoe-in-Platoon-style collapse at the merest touch of Van Dijk’s knee at Anfield was a definite penalty. To be fair, for the entirety of Neville’s playing career under Alex Ferguson at Manchester United it probably would have been a stonewall penalty for any player wearing red at Old Trafford, certainly lest the referee be forced to run for his life with eleven psychopaths at his heels. So maybe his opinion, and that of every click-baiting, hot-taking pundit on this subject and many others, should be taken with a grain of salt too?

I mean, football supporters are, to a greater or lesser extent, all hypocrites when it comes to this kind of stuff, aren’t we? We normally couldn’t be objective to save our lives, although I recall the vast majority of us readily admitting that the foul which most closely resembles Dummett’s that I can think of (Dirk Kuyt grabbing Aleksandr Hleb’s arm in a very similar manner against Arsenal during the first leg of the Champions League quarter-final at the Emirates in 2008) was a stonewall penalty, just like Saturday, and how relieved we were that the ref missed it. But, and it feels stupid even saying it at this point, the entire point of this football analysis business is supposed to be objectivity. Newcastle were on a hiding (to nothing, plus just a hiding) either way yesterday. It’s ridiculous that an already-truncated show like Match of the Day wasted precious seconds discussing it at all.

The fear for the Nevilles and all the rest must now be that it really doesn’t matter anymore. The referee could have waved Dummett’s foul away or Salah could have dived for twenty more penalties, it simply wouldn’t have mattered, not really. Newcastle were beaten yesterday once Lovren’s screamer nearly ripped the back of the Kop-end net off. The game could have ended 1-0, 2-0 or 3-0, 10-0, it doesn’t matter. Like 12 of the other 19 Premier League teams this season, Newcastle were never scoring in this game. Neither would Manchester United or Leicester City had it not been for goalkeeping errors. The rest of the current top-5, also second-to-fifth on the scoring charts (Arsenal, Chelsea, Manchester City and Spurs), have managed 3 goals in 360 minutes against us so far. Burnley’s goal was offside and involved a foul on the goalkeeper. Cardiff’s was a mere consolation in a 4-1 defeat.

Prior to yesterday, over 400 days had passed since a referee last gave Liverpool a home penalty in the Premier League, during which time the media persisted with the risible party line, the utter delusion, that the Anfield crowd influences officials, in the face of all available evidence to the contrary. After a disgraceful decision against Stoke towards the end of last season (a blatant handball), for example, one that could have ultimately cost Liverpool Champions League football, it was Klopp’s opposite number Paul Lambert who complained about the officials. The German merely blanked the linesman on the post-match handshake and said very little more about it. Liverpool — players, manager, coaches, supporters — don’t intimidate officials, they don’t even try, and if they do, they’re terrible at it. Truly.

Me, I think we should be tormenting officials at every turn, just like every successful team of the past three decades — e.g. Ferguson’s Manchester United, every side coached by Guardiola and Mourinho, Real Madrid regardless of manager, Chelsea under multiple managers, Spain — have done, because it’s an edge that we will continue to be unable to avail of while Klopp’s outbursts are limited to ear-bashing the fourth official during the 90 minutes and his players’ influence limited to Hendo or Milner having a quiet word with the referee. Needless to say, had Dejan Lovren driven Cristiano Ronaldo’s head and shoulder into the Kiev turf last May, there would have been a second Spanish inquisition in the NSC Olimpiyskiy Stadium.

Whatever Liverpool achieve under Klopp, they're going to do it the honest way, or at least as honest as anyone gets these days. Translation: they're going to do it the hard way. So fuck tainting any of our players as cheats, especially when we're getting no rewards for it on the pitch.

So under the circumstances, I’m sure the boys will forgive me if I don’t give two shits whether Mo Salah embellished his fall yesterday, but I will say that it’s just good manners to wait until a player has actually cheated before wringing your hands in moral outrage, like that time another utter fool accused Luis Suárez of kissing the tattoos of his family’s names on his wrist as a means of rubbing Mansfield Town’s noses in his fiendishness after a goal that came off his hand. Now that the Uruguayan’s accursed jockstrap has passed to the Egyptian King, we can but hope that he at least washed it first.

In the meantime, let us acknowledge that without a single penalty in over a year of home games, all the more incredible given the speed and precision of their attack, Liverpool were still good enough to secure a top-4 finish in May and sit undefeated at the top of the table in late-December. Imagine how good they’d be if they actually got their share of penalties? Maybe Phil, Kevin, Dion and the rest are scared that we’re about to find out?

Referees giving penalties for fouls, though, eh? The game is fucked.

Excellent post.

Offline him_15

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Re: PL: Liverpool 4 vs Newcastle 0 - Lovren 12', Mo 48', Shaq 79', Fabinho 85'
« Reply #438 on: December 28, 2018, 05:15:17 am »
Thx for the X'mas present Rafa, now do us another favour please take some point from United. 
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Re: PL: Liverpool 4 vs Newcastle 0 - Lovren 12', Mo 48', Shaq 79', Fabinho 85'
« Reply #439 on: December 28, 2018, 06:48:51 am »
E2K

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