Author Topic: The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?  (Read 65025 times)

Offline Commie Bobbie

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The state Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« on: September 2, 2021, 02:00:56 pm »
As I alluded to in the Biden thread - I have been watching a few of the American Experience series on PBS, and came across both the Oklahoma City Bombing one and the Ruby Ridge one, both of whom are linked as they are part of the narrative pumped on the White Supremacist right as the consequences of state intervention - it is said that the Oklahoma City Atrocity was the Right's response to the Waco Siege and the resulting death toll.

However, there was a thought that came to mind. Do the events in the 90s, bare any responsibility for where America is right now?

Whether it is the radical, hate-filled nonsense that comes out of the GOP's gobs on an hourly basis, the obsession with their guns, the draconian Texas abortion laws and its implications, The voting rights debacle and straight out gerrymandering, and how the GOP have turned the Supreme Court, into toothless goons for an absurd period of time, remembering that the GOP's presidential candidate has lost the popular vote for the last four Presidential cycles?

And what can be done to combat this, because whilst Trump and Trumpism may be gone - albeit temporarily, the actions that the GOP have been allowed to get away with and its consequences are going to last decades.

Let's keep this away from Biden and Trump - this is purely about how America got to this point - and how to get it out of such a dark hole?
« Last Edit: December 4, 2021, 09:39:10 am by John C »
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Offline ChaChaMooMoo

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Re: The State Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #1 on: September 2, 2021, 02:05:36 pm »
I dont think its just a 2 decade problem. Ever since their independence or the way they forcibly grabbed lands off the natives before 1776, America has embodied the "Im right, you are wrong" attitude. That attitude just multiplied and amplified into their battles and wars and it became so embedded into their politics and way of life that its seen as a natural behaviour in that side of the world. And its more visible now because of social media.

Offline Only Me

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Re: The State Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #2 on: September 2, 2021, 03:03:45 pm »
They appear to be a brainwashed, North Korean type cult of a country.

Making large numbers of kids pledge allegiance to a fucking flag every day - knob heads.

And the obsession with religion and God that millions of them seem to go in for. Obviously only the white, English speaking God, like.

And then there's the gun fettish. Something very Freudian about all that nonsense. if you ask me.

There's no hope for them. They are the very definition of a lost cause.

Pity the Atlantic isn't a few thousand miles wider.

Its a real shame. I've been to the US about 10 times on various holidays. But no more. Nutters, the lot of them.

Offline Riquende

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Re: The State Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #3 on: September 2, 2021, 03:23:49 pm »
Let's Escape from New York the whole bloody place.

Give the decent ones time to flee to Canada as refugees.
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Re: The State Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #4 on: September 2, 2021, 03:27:55 pm »
Commie Bobbie, you should definitely check this podcast out - I finished it recently, very high quality.

https://www.wbez.org/stories/what-to-expect-from-season-3-of-wbezs-motive-podcast/1f7189e5-3bde-4329-88c2-2b42ac70543b?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI2vf_3L7g8gIV-gutBh3zNwojEAAYASAAEgLDd_D_BwE

It goes into how the right-wing mobs ditched the skinhead haircuts and morphed into the alt-right we see today, and how they get their hooks into people

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Re: The State Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #5 on: September 2, 2021, 03:34:45 pm »
You can go back a lot further but Bush stealing/sneaking the election in 2000 was the sliding doors moment in modern times. His presidency was an utter disaster on many fronts (from the economy to foreign policy) but America hasn't really recovered from 9/11 and its repercussions. 9/11 could have been avoided as well had the Bush administration been on the ball.

Reagan did a lot of damage in the 80s as well which Clinton didn't push back enough from (similar to Thatcher and Blair here). JFK's assassination and everything that followed in the 60s leading to loss of innocence and also set the stage for the disastrous Vietnam war.
« Last Edit: September 2, 2021, 03:39:35 pm by Fromola »
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Re: The State Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #6 on: September 2, 2021, 03:49:28 pm »
There is a global problem with the far right. The US maybe the most amplified and overt, but they are feeling emboldened everywhere else too.

The constant deluge of misinformation and conflation of fact with opinion/lie is making it a very difficult problem to counter.

I dont think these people are worse than before, they were always this bad. They are just more brazen and blatant about it.

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Re: The State Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #7 on: September 2, 2021, 03:52:14 pm »
That Texas abortion law is one of the worst things I have read about concerning womens rights in I don't know how long. Its the kind of thing you expect from something like the Taliban. I'm surprised they stopped at allowing any individual to sue someone who performs an illegal abortion and just didn't say you can shoot them instead.
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Re: The State Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #8 on: September 2, 2021, 03:53:07 pm »
Freedom of speech abuse.
Religion gone mad. add gone given right to anything somebody wants and they think right is on their side.
Add Patriot to any view they support makes then feel are doing something nobel, something they feel they are justified in feeling proud over.
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Re: The State Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #9 on: September 2, 2021, 03:57:29 pm »
That Texas abortion law is one of the worst things I have read about concerning womens rights in I don't know how long. Its the kind of thing you expect from something like the Taliban. I'm surprised they stopped at allowing any individual to sue someone who performs an illegal abortion and just didn't say you can shoot them instead.

Supreme Court decision (to deny a request to freeze the state law) is due to ‘novel’ and ‘complex’ procedural questions apparently.  Whatever they may be.

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Re: The State Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #10 on: September 2, 2021, 04:12:47 pm »
I think about this topic a lot though - too much, really. How have things got to this point?

I saw this exchange on reddit recently, and agreed with every word - the first quoted block is from a WaPo editorial about the newest GOP psycho Madison Cawthorne, who gave a nazi-esque speech with ominous warnings of more violence to come if elections keep getting 'stolen':

Quote
WaPo editorial: There you have the reigning ethos of today’s right wing laid bare: If we keep lying uncontrollably to our supporters about the totalitarian left’s repression of them, they just might resort to violence, and gosh almighty, wouldn’t that be just terrible!

The big truth captured here is that for many right-wing personalities, the lying about the left is prior and essential to their radicalization, abandonment of democracy and increasing embrace of authoritarianism. The former inspires and justifies the latter: Once you unshackle yourself entirely from any obligation to reality in depicting the leftist menace, it’s a short leap to envisioning and then justifying pretty much anything in response to it.

The Cawthorn dust-up captures this nicely. His spokesman says he “fears” that “others” will “erroneously choose” violence, as long as “election integrity questions” remain unresolved.

But Cawthorn himself cheerfully does all he can to give life to those “questions,” even though they’re based in lies. He says our elections continue to be “rigged” and “stolen,” and that the only way to avert violence is to insist that “we have election security in all 50 states.”

We do have election security, of course. The 2020 voting was scrutinized to an extraordinary degree, subject to numerous intensive reviews by elections officials and litigated over in dozens of nationally watched court battles.

So at best, there’s a vaguely extortive element to this: If you don’t give us more election security — i.e., more voter suppression, more “audits” designed to cast doubt on the election’s outcome, more doubling down on counter-majoritarian tactics — the millions of Americans unfairly victimized by the last election’s outcome just might resort to bloodshed! And that would be just awful!

You see versions of this constantly from the right’s superstars. Remember when Tucker Carlson agreed that virtuous conservatives just might get pushed into fascism if and when the left’s excesses require it? This was justified by the invention that the left is already perilously close to this point, creating a perfect feedback loop of self-justification.

Similarly, when Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-Ga.) flirted with political violence, she did so by seemingly agreeing with the need to combat various leftist tyrannies that were simply invented.

And when Sen. Josh Hawley (R-Mo.) sought to justify his lead role in trying to invalidate President Biden’s electors in Congress, he claimed to be merely giving voice to constituents who had doubts about the outcome. In reality, of course, he actively fed those doubts, and then used them to reverse-justify his effort to subvert the outcome, an effort that helped inspire Jan. 6.



...and then this response from u/frostfall010:


Quote
This article really gets at what the right wing media machine has been doing for years: creating this absurd and completely detached-from-reality caricature of the left. They legitimize it by cherry-picking examples of the left's hypocrisy or by pretending that extreme examples of behavior from some on the left is representative of everyone on the left. Millions of right wing Americans are fed this daily and they see democrats and people on the left as anti-American and a threat to the "real Americans'" way of life.

They're being radicalized by these insane lies and January 6 and other examples of right wing violence are evidence that they're taking up this "reluctant" mantle of having to defend America from internal enemies. And people like Trump and virtually every other member of the GOP perpetuates this idea, that democrats are extreme, dangerous, and should not govern.

It's not much more of a reach from there to say, the every day democrat is destroying the country and we have to do something about them. Clearly, not one single republican voiced any meaningful rebuke of Trump allowing unmarked officers grabbing protestors off of the street into unmarked vans (which should be the exact thing all these 2nd amendment-obsessed people should be upset about). So long as right wing media is allowed to continue spreading misinformation and propaganda this will only get worse.

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Re: The State Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #11 on: September 2, 2021, 04:40:38 pm »
Freedom of speech abuse.
Religion gone mad. add gone given right to anything somebody wants and they think right is on their side.
Add Patriot to any view they support makes then feel are doing something nobel, something they feel they are justified in feeling proud over.

Democracy in general is in a shambles over there. Every Republican president since certainly Reagan has been highly destructive. On the other side you've got all these one-party Democrat cities that are in a shambles and taken over by anarchy, poverty, crime and homelessness, with the solution of 'defund the police' proposed as some kind of solution.
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Re: The State Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #12 on: September 2, 2021, 05:10:39 pm »

Quote
This article really gets at what the right wing media machine has been doing for years: creating this absurd and completely detached-from-reality caricature of the left. They legitimize it by cherry-picking examples of the left's hypocrisy or by pretending that extreme examples of behavior from some on the left is representative of everyone on the left. Millions of right wing Americans are fed this daily and they see democrats and people on the left as anti-American and a threat to the "real Americans'" way of life.



You could apply exactly this to the UK
A Tory, a worker and an immigrant are sat round a table. There's a plate of 10 biscuits in the middle. The Tory takes 9 then turns to the worker and says "that immigrant is trying to steal your biscuit"

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Re: The State Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #13 on: September 2, 2021, 05:46:21 pm »
Democracy in general is in a shambles over there. Every Republican president since certainly Reagan has been highly destructive. On the other side you've got all these one-party Democrat cities that are in a shambles and taken over by anarchy, poverty, crime and homelessness, with the solution of 'defund the police' proposed as some kind of solution. :no


I had a few little arguments on freedom of speech with someone from the US a few years back when discussing Hillsborough trolls. he was making a case of us not seeing the bigger picture, how silencing these trolls will limit our freedom to attack politicians,  :no . why do people accept these ridicules arguments without considering if they are right? the UK has far stricter laws than the US on freedom of speech, I assume anyone who thinks this stops us attacking our politicians never watches the news or reads opinions on UK forums.

The "13th" is brilliant documentary, Clinton should take some of the blame but at least he had the guts to admit he was wrong. yet 3 strikes and out law still in use today in most States. stand your ground law is obscene. I fully support BLM but they have argued a couple of things that have made it easier for the right wing to attack them, made it harder for the center left to endorse a couple of arguments they've made.  which makes it easier for the hard right to exploit to use fear.

« Last Edit: September 2, 2021, 06:06:23 pm by oldfordie »
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Offline Lone Star Red

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Re: The State Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #14 on: September 2, 2021, 08:13:55 pm »
They appear to be a brainwashed, North Korean type cult of a country.

Making large numbers of kids pledge allegiance to a fucking flag every day - knob heads.

And the obsession with religion and God that millions of them seem to go in for. Obviously only the white, English speaking God, like.

And then there's the gun fettish. Something very Freudian about all that nonsense. if you ask me.

There's no hope for them. They are the very definition of a lost cause.

Pity the Atlantic isn't a few thousand miles wider.

Its a real shame. I've been to the US about 10 times on various holidays. But no more. Nutters, the lot of them.

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Offline Commie Bobbie

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Re: The State Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #15 on: September 2, 2021, 08:33:47 pm »



You could apply exactly this to the UK

It's interesting you say that because I see the exact same issues everyday on line and in and around where I live. This utter lack of willingness amongst a sizable chunk of the electorate to see what the Tories have done as criminal and corrupt, almost like the government has utilised the same playbook that the GOP have successfully used in recent years.
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Offline Lawnmowerman

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Re: The State Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #16 on: September 2, 2021, 08:45:34 pm »
They appear to be a brainwashed, North Korean type cult of a country.

Making large numbers of kids pledge allegiance to a fucking flag every day - knob heads.

And the obsession with religion and God that millions of them seem to go in for. Obviously only the white, English speaking God, like.

And then there's the gun fettish. Something very Freudian about all that nonsense. if you ask me.

There's no hope for them. They are the very definition of a lost cause.

Pity the Atlantic isn't a few thousand miles wider.

Its a real shame. I've been to the US about 10 times on various holidays. But no more. Nutters, the lot of them.
Only ten times??!! but no more? jaysus i can imagine how many times you'd have been there if you actually liked the place!
Ten times. 'Pity it's not a few thousand miles further away, place is full of nutters!'. Off he goes, ten times

Offline ChaChaMooMoo

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Re: The State Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #17 on: September 2, 2021, 10:14:11 pm »
America, in the last couple of decades, has been somewhere in between a second/third world nation that's pretending to be first. And people in positions of power don't acknowledge that and/or remain ignorant/oblivious of that.
« Last Edit: September 2, 2021, 10:18:29 pm by ChaChaMooMoo »

Online John C

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Re: The State Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #18 on: September 2, 2021, 10:26:39 pm »
I've never been in to US politics at all until recently, but didn't a lot of this shite start with Regan, the extreme right-wing populist?

And of course the whole interpretation of the constitution is bullshit also.

Offline Seebab

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Re: The State Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #19 on: September 2, 2021, 10:37:55 pm »
That Texas abortion law is one of the worst things I have read about concerning womens rights in I don't know how long. Its the kind of thing you expect from something like the Taliban. I'm surprised they stopped at allowing any individual to sue someone who performs an illegal abortion and just didn't say you can shoot them instead.

All those people voting for Trump over Hillary in 2016. We are now seeing the fruits of their awful decision-making. Three supreme court picks by Trump in his 4 years of power and Mitch McConnell pretty much helping speed these abortion ban laws through. Disgusting but expected.

If Ruth Ginsberg is looking down at us somehow from the afterlife, she must be screaming at God/life for taking her away at the worst possible time.
« Last Edit: September 2, 2021, 10:39:58 pm by Seebab »
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Re: The State Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #20 on: September 2, 2021, 10:43:38 pm »
The United Staes of America is a failed concept, Land of the Free, Home of the Brave runs well within the confines of the borders that make it a Country but honestly its a mess and one they have made themselves.

I'll go into this more tomorrow as i am now off to bed and only spotted this threada, very good topic btw Bobby.
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Re: The State Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #21 on: September 2, 2021, 11:46:00 pm »
You can go back a lot further but Bush stealing/sneaking the election in 2000 was the sliding doors moment in modern times. His presidency was an utter disaster on many fronts (from the economy to foreign policy) but America hasn't really recovered from 9/11 and its repercussions. 9/11 could have been avoided as well had the Bush administration been on the ball.

Reagan did a lot of damage in the 80s as well which Clinton didn't push back enough from (similar to Thatcher and Blair here). JFK's assassination and everything that followed in the 60s leading to loss of innocence and also set the stage for the disastrous Vietnam war.

America hasn't recovered from the Civil War and all its repercussions.

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Re: The State Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #22 on: September 3, 2021, 01:47:37 am »
America is where you keep Americans.
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Re: The State Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #23 on: September 3, 2021, 07:25:46 am »
It's a very very angry country full of hate filled right and left leaning organisations. The divide is massive and won't be healed anytime soon.

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Re: The State Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #24 on: September 3, 2021, 08:28:23 am »
I've always found America and Americans weird.

Their views and opinions and ways just seem strange.  This total and absolute stand by my flag shite I just can't get my head around.

Anyone with a badge does whatever they feel like with no consequences.  Zombie like adoration of the clergy. 

Everything bad blamed on non whites, communism or anti Americanism.

Their European settlers could have made it a leading example of new world progressiveness, instead it's still stuck in the 17th Century.


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Re: The State Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #25 on: September 3, 2021, 08:46:05 am »
"Please give me the serenity to accept the things I can't change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to understand the difference"

Ever since its formation, America has had a problem with the understanding of all three.

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Re: The State Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #26 on: September 3, 2021, 09:15:50 am »
This thread, of course, isn't for us to condemn all Americans, many of our RAWK brethren are from there, so as usual this site will expect well considered posts.

But the country has major issues and many of the people are divided between what I will say as decent progressives who want to install a better living environment for all vs the modern right who as a minority seek unmitigated power and will do anything to corrupt and suppress. It's much, much deeper than Trump who simply ignited the latest smouldering of perniciousness.

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Re: The State Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #27 on: September 3, 2021, 09:30:00 am »
Things like this are insane and yet you'll have people drawing false equivalences between the two parties:

Quote
Tennessee Department of Health halts all vaccine outreach to kids – not just for COVID-19, but all diseases – amid pressure from GOP. Staff ordered to remove the agency logo from any documents providing vaccine info to the public, per internal dox.

The agency will also end all COVID-19 vaccine events at schools, even though they've mostly served adults. And, if teens get a two-dose vaccine, it won't remind them to go back for their second dose. Teens are intentionally stripped from the mailing list for reminder postcards.

https://twitter.com/BrettKelman/status/1415023788777934850

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Re: The State Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #28 on: September 3, 2021, 09:55:22 am »
It's fair to remember that although you have clearly inbred shitholes like Texas, not every state is that evil/stupid


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/sep/02/texas-abortion-law-tiktok-reddit-whistleblower

Pro-choice users on TikTok and Reddit have launched a guerrilla effort to thwart Texas’s extreme new abortion law, flooding an online tip website that encourages people to report violators of the law with false reports, Shrek memes, and porn.

The law makes it illegal to help women in Texas access abortion after the sixth week of pregnancy. To help enforce it, anti-abortion group Texas Right to Life established the digital tipline where people can send anonymous information about potential violations.

“Any Texan can bring a lawsuit against an abortionist or someone aiding and abetting an abortion after six weeks,” the website reads, and those proved to be violating the law can be fined a minimum of $10,000. An online form allows anyone to submit an anonymous “report” of someone illegally obtaining an abortion, including a section where images can be uploaded for proof.

But pro-choice users had other ideas, bombarding the site with false reports and fabricated data through a campaign primarily organized on Reddit and TikTok.

Though the site was launched a month ago, the fake reports came flooding in on the eve of the bill’s enactment. One TikTok user said they had submitted 742 fake reports of the governor Greg Abbott getting illegal abortions.

In a tongue-in-cheek caption, the user encouraged others to do the same: “It would be a shame if TikTok crashed the ProLifeWhistleBlower website”.

Redditors said they had submitted reports blaming the state of Texas for facilitating abortions by having highways that allow people to travel to the procedure.

“Wouldn’t it be so awful if we sent in a bunch of fake tips and crashed the site? Like, Greg Abbott’s butt stinks,” one TikTok creator said.


Another TikTok user showed how he uploaded Shrek memes claiming they were images proving “my wife aborted our baby 4 weeks into her pregnancy without my consulting me”. Meanwhile, other users encouraged people to upload image attachments containing various kinds of porn.

The coordinated effort echoes a movement in June 2020 to flood a Donald Trump rally with fake sign-ups, resulting in an empty stadium for the actual event.

An activist who goes by the name Sean Black said he programmed a script to submit reports en masse on the website automatically.

Black, who describes himself as a “regular college student from North Carolina”, has released a Python script and an iOS shortcut for less tech-savvy to send thousands of reports a day.

He said his data shows nearly 8,000 people have used the Python code and 9,000 have used the iOS shortcut. Others have been inspired by his coding against anti-abortion advocates, saying collaborators across the US are working with him on 10 “active branches” of new features in the tool.

The website appears to be doing its best to take on the influx of false reports and remains online despite other sabotage attempts including attacks by hackers.

Nancy Cárdenas Peña, a Texas director for the National Latina Institute for Reproductive Justice, said she was blocked by the website from using the form after she tweeted about it. Some web hosts allow people to block visitors to their sites by IP address.

TikTokers flood Texas abortion whistleblower site with Shrek memes, fake reports and porn



Last modified on Fri 3 Sep 2021 01.45 BST

Pro-choice users on TikTok and Reddit have launched a guerrilla effort to thwart Texas’s extreme new abortion law, flooding an online tip website that encourages people to report violators of the law with false reports, Shrek memes, and porn.

The law makes it illegal to help women in Texas access abortion after the sixth week of pregnancy. To help enforce it, anti-abortion group Texas Right to Life established the digital tipline where people can send anonymous information about potential violations.

“Any Texan can bring a lawsuit against an abortionist or someone aiding and abetting an abortion after six weeks,” the website reads, and those proved to be violating the law can be fined a minimum of $10,000. An online form allows anyone to submit an anonymous “report” of someone illegally obtaining an abortion, including a section where images can be uploaded for proof.
Prior to the supreme court’s decision in Texas, Roe v Wade stopped laws that banned abortion before a fetus is viable outside the womb, generally regarded as 24 weeks.
How does someone in Texas get an abortion now and what’s next?
Read more

But pro-choice users had other ideas, bombarding the site with false reports and fabricated data through a campaign primarily organized on Reddit and TikTok.

Though the site was launched a month ago, the fake reports came flooding in on the eve of the bill’s enactment. One TikTok user said they had submitted 742 fake reports of the governor Greg Abbott getting illegal abortions.

In a tongue-in-cheek caption, the user encouraged others to do the same: “It would be a shame if TikTok crashed the ProLifeWhistleBlower website”.

Redditors said they had submitted reports blaming the state of Texas for facilitating abortions by having highways that allow people to travel to the procedure.

“Wouldn’t it be so awful if we sent in a bunch of fake tips and crashed the site? Like, Greg Abbott’s butt stinks,” one TikTok creator said.

Another TikTok user showed how he uploaded Shrek memes claiming they were images proving “my wife aborted our baby 4 weeks into her pregnancy without my consulting me”. Meanwhile, other users encouraged people to upload image attachments containing various kinds of porn.

The coordinated effort echoes a movement in June 2020 to flood a Donald Trump rally with fake sign-ups, resulting in an empty stadium for the actual event.

An activist who goes by the name Sean Black said he programmed a script to submit reports en masse on the website automatically.

Black, who describes himself as a “regular college student from North Carolina”, has released a Python script and an iOS shortcut for less tech-savvy to send thousands of reports a day.

He said his data shows nearly 8,000 people have used the Python code and 9,000 have used the iOS shortcut. Others have been inspired by his coding against anti-abortion advocates, saying collaborators across the US are working with him on 10 “active branches” of new features in the tool.

The website appears to be doing its best to take on the influx of false reports and remains online despite other sabotage attempts including attacks by hackers.

Nancy Cárdenas Peña, a Texas director for the National Latina Institute for Reproductive Justice, said she was blocked by the website from using the form after she tweeted about it. Some web hosts allow people to block visitors to their sites by IP address.

“Gosh, I wonder if they factored in people abusing the integrity of this system,” she said, jokingly adding: “Hmmm I hope ppl don’t abuse this! That would be terrible.”

« Last Edit: September 3, 2021, 09:57:30 am by Andy @ Allerton »
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Offline RainbowFlick

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Re: The State Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #29 on: September 3, 2021, 11:05:51 am »
it's very easy to point and laugh at America as when it's bad, it's comically bad, but if we're honest things are pretty awful here too. right wing populism is all over the world nowadays and it's a pretty dangerous time full of misinformation and alt-right nonsense.

i think there's a big issue in America with politics and religion intertwining so much with thankfully we have to a lesser degree here.
« Last Edit: September 3, 2021, 11:08:42 am by RainbowFlick »
YNWA.

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Re: The State Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #30 on: September 3, 2021, 11:14:09 am »
it's very easy to point and laugh at America as when it's bad, it's comically bad, but if we're honest things are pretty awful here too. right wing populism is all over the world nowadays and it's a pretty dangerous time full of misinformation and alt-right nonsense.

i think there's a big issue in America with politics and religion intertwining so much with thankfully we have to a lesser degree here.

I think it's less of a problem here because if a government tried to do something so completely evil/stupid/batshit crazy like that fucking abortion law then there would be uproar across the country.

In America, the 'United' states are anything but - they really are their own little banana republics with crazy shithouse rulers passing mental laws.
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Re: The State Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #31 on: September 3, 2021, 11:25:20 am »
I thnk we can all agree though that are large number of Americans are pretty stupid. I mean;

Trump loyalists team up with anti-vax doctors for ‘health and freedom’ tour


Top loyalists to Donald Trump, who frequently push lies about election fraud, have joined forces with conservative doctors touting unproven Covid curesand vaccine skepticism, and like-minded evangelical ministers at a series of events across the US this summer.

The conservative “ReAwaken America” tour – featuring ex-general Michael Flynn and top Donald Trump loyalist donors – has held events in Florida, Michigan and other states.

It underscores how Trump’s allies, anti-vaccine doctors and conservative preachers are amplifying baseless claims that are hurting the nation’s public health and its democracy with potentially far-reaching impacts, say pandemic and election experts.

The tour comes as Covid cases soar and as Republican drives to pass state laws weakening voting rights increase. While the tour has touted Flynn’s key role, a Tulsa Oklahoma media figure and Christian entrepreneur named Clay Clark has been instrumental in orchestrating the gatherings – also dubbed “health and freedom” conferences – using his “ThriveTime” podcast and radio show and Charisma News coverage.

The ReAwaken events have featured talks by vaccine skeptics such as Simone Gold, who was charged for taking part in the Capitol riot and leads America’s Frontline Doctors, a rightist group that garnered attention for touting dubious Covid-19 cures such as ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine.

Stella Immanuel, a Houston doctor who is part of Gold’s group and who spoke at a Michigan ReAwaken rally on 20 August, gained notoriety last year for public remarks at a Washington rally near the supreme court, suggesting America’s health problems were linked to alien DNA and sperm from demons.

Another doctor listed as a speaker at the rallies is Scott Jensen, a former state senator and Fox News favorite who is running for governor in Minnesota. Last year, Jensen was a candidate for Politifact’s “lie of the year” for claiming baselessly that doctors were overcounting Covid cases for their own financial gain.

Further, the conservative tour has provided new audiences for rich Trump donors such as Mike Lindell, the chief executive of MyPillow, who has stated falsely that Trump would be reinstalled as president by 13 August, and Patrick Byrne, the former chief of Overstock, who bankrolled with millions of dollars a spurious “audit” in Arizona’s largest county that has drawn bipartisan fire for lacking merit.

The ReAwaken meetings, which each appear to have drawn audiences in the hundreds or more, have also taken place this year in Oklahoma and California, with more slated for Colorado and Texas in coming months. Promotional materials indicate that attendees are asked to pay $250 for general admission or $500 for VIP tickets, with pastors eligible for half-price tickets.

Voting rights lawyers and pandemic experts are troubled by the volume of election and pandemic disinformation that the ReAwaken tour seems to be spreading.

“Many Americans believe the 2020 election was stolen, despite numerous failed court cases alleging it and recounts that verified the results,” said Gerry Hebert, who spent over two decades as a senior lawyer at the justice department handling voting rights.

Hebert added: “People have refused to wear masks and get vaccinated because of Covid disinformation campaigns. Lies and disinformation campaigns can kill, both our fellow Americans and our democracy, and this ReAwaken America tour seems designed to accentuate these problems.”

Similarly, Covid experts say that the ReAwaken America tour is exacerbating medical disinformation.

“These events are stark reminders of how Trump was elected in 2016 and remains popular to this day, with many now vying to assume his mantle in campaigning for elected office at all levels of governments,” said Irwin Redlener, who leads Columbia University’s Pandemic Resource and Recovery Initiative.

“I’m actually embarrassed by the fact that there are doctors fully into this craziness.”

Flynn, who was pardoned by Trump late last year after twice pleading guilty to lying to the FBI about his contacts with the Russian ambassador in the federal investigation into Kremlin meddling in the 2016 elections, has become a fixture at conspiracy-heavy gatherings this year, including one in Texas in May that was backed by QAnon advocates who have falsely claimed Trump will become president again this year.

Other Trump loyalists have popped up at the ReAwaken events, including Roger Stone, a longtime Trump adviser who also was pardoned by Trump after he was convicted of lying to Congress and other felonies as part of the federal inquiry into Russian meddling in the 2016 elections, and Charlie Kirk who runs the pro-Trump youth group Turning Point USA.

Anne Nelson, the author of Shadow Network, a book about the rightwing Council for National Policy, which boasts some key evangelicals, said Clark’s ReAwaken tour has echoes of earlier “religious political entrepreneurs” but said Clark “has modernized their techniques with religious rallies and media platforms promoting Trump surrogates like Michael Flynn and medical misinformation peddlers like Simone Gold, to build momentum for the radical right, leading up to next year’s midterms and 2024.”

The ReAwaken gatherings have dovetailed with more drives by conservative doctors and Trump loyalists spreading pandemic and election disinformation.

For instance, Gold’s America’s Frontline Doctors, which was formed with the help of Tea Party Patriots early last year, filed a motion this July aimed at the health department seeking to halt vaccinations. The motion contained some widely debunked assertions about Covid-19.

The discredited claims included that CDC data reveals that the two-shot Pfizer and Moderna vaccines and the single-shot Johnson & Johnson vaccine are “not effective in treating or preventing” Covid-19, and that the pandemic is not a public health emergency.

Further, Gold’s group announced in May that it was launching a national RV “Uncensored Truth Tour” with an initial focus on several states including Arizona, Texas and Florida.

Critics see the RV tour as another vehicle for Gold to spread disinformation, as in her comments in Washington at a rally the day before the Capitol attack, when she labeled FDA approved vaccines “an experimental biological agent deceptively named a vaccine” and urged people to avoid being “coerced”.

More broadly, Redlener is dismayed by the abundance of disinformation at the ReAwaken America rallies, and via similar avenues. “The increasingly flagrant promotion of anti- science ignorance and bizarre political extremism is worrisome,” he said.
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Offline Only Me

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Re: The State Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #32 on: September 3, 2021, 11:27:30 am »
:lmao

Nearly as funny as that backward and barbaric abortion law your State has just passed.

Gotta love those Texans. At least God knows the score and is fully on their side.

Knobheads.


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Re: The State Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #33 on: September 3, 2021, 11:31:51 am »
It's interesting you say that because I see the exact same issues everyday on line and in and around where I live. This utter lack of willingness amongst a sizable chunk of the electorate to see what the Tories have done as criminal and corrupt, almost like the government has utilised the same playbook that the GOP have successfully used in recent years.

People who are worried about some non-existent threat to their liberties whilst they have been shafted by their "protectors" for generations. It`s utterly bizarre. The Tories are always in power but nothing is ever their fault. Their corruption and criminality is out in the open, yet they play up fears of something worse being out there. "Yes, we are bad, but those others are worse"!

The fear-mongering about Marxism and leftist tyranny in the United States is both depressing and laughable. If you asked the average MAGA dolt to name an example of Marxist behaviour, or even what Marxism, Socialism or Communism is they would be hard pushed. The fact is that the Overton Window has moved so far to the right that the right of centre (in world terms) Democratic Party is seen as a Marxist existential threat is just incredible. Do these people really think the millionaire leadership and donors of that party are suddenly going to all give up their wealth and become Marxists? Well, that`s what they are constantly told, so it must be true  :o
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Re: The State Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #34 on: September 3, 2021, 11:35:10 am »
it's very easy to point and laugh at America as when it's bad, it's comically bad, but if we're honest things are pretty awful here too. right wing populism is all over the world nowadays and it's a pretty dangerous time full of misinformation and alt-right nonsense.

i think there's a big issue in America with politics and religion intertwining so much with thankfully we have to a lesser degree here.

And we have our own problems as well, not helped by batty judges like the one sentencing a wannabe Himmler to an A level course in Eng. Lit.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-58425648

And I've said previously - America has never got over the civil war.

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Re: The State Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #35 on: September 3, 2021, 11:37:49 am »
I think it's less of a problem here because if a government tried to do something so completely evil/stupid/batshit crazy like that fucking abortion law then there would be uproar across the country.

In America, the 'United' states are anything but - they really are their own little banana republics with crazy shithouse rulers passing mental laws.

I think you are wrong: it`s much much worse here. The war is over, we lost.
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Re: The State Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #36 on: September 3, 2021, 11:44:46 am »
I think you are wrong: it`s much much worse here. The war is over, we lost.

You think that evil abortion law would be passed in the UK? I disagree.

I dislike the Tories as much as anyone, but there is a gulf between their biggest nutters and the default right-wing stance in the US
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Re: The State Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #37 on: September 3, 2021, 11:54:46 am »
People who are worried about some non-existent threat to their liberties whilst they have been shafted by their "protectors" for generations. It`s utterly bizarre. The Tories are always in power but nothing is ever their fault. Their corruption and criminality is out in the open, yet they play up fears of something worse being out there. "Yes, we are bad, but those others are worse"!

The fear-mongering about Marxism and leftist tyranny in the United States is both depressing and laughable. If you asked the average MAGA dolt to name an example of Marxist behaviour, or even what Marxism, Socialism or Communism is they would be hard pushed. The fact is that the Overton Window has moved so far to the right that the right of centre (in world terms) Democratic Party is seen as a Marxist existential threat is just incredible. Do these people really think the millionaire leadership and donors of that party are suddenly going to all give up their wealth and become Marxists? Well, that`s what they are constantly told, so it must be true  :o
I agree with every word you say but people do make it easier for Trump etc to scare the s.. out of the gullible.
What do you say to someone if they say you must be blind, many people are proudly admitting they are Marxists? :butt :butt :butt
You would need to sit them down and explain how laws are passed by majorities and ask them to name all these Marxists who are in Congress to vote to pass these laws, it's absurd, there's no chance of it happening. zero but people in the US and to some extent the UK are terrified, the fear is real.
I still can't get my head around the fact Antifa are considered the bad guys in the US. how did they manage to convince millions into believing the people who stand up to Nazis+White Suprematists are the bad guys. :duh :duh
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Re: The State Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #38 on: September 3, 2021, 12:15:02 pm »
You think that evil abortion law would be passed in the UK? I disagree.

I dislike the Tories as much as anyone, but there is a gulf between their biggest nutters and the default right-wing stance in the US

Correct.

There is also less blind allegiance to the parties here. Sure, there is a hardcore, never to be swayed section of Tories/Labour, but not to anything like the extent they do over there.

That's a very dangerous state of affairs, because those in power soon learn that no matter what kind of nutcase/dishonest/criminal things they do, their support base will stay with them. I think things over here have got worse for this kind of thing, but its nowhere near the level of the US. That abortion law wouldn't have a chance over here.

But that's just one example of the fucking stupid and dangerous laws they pass over there.

Dozens of kids regularly mown down by automatic weapons while in school. Solution: Ban guns or improve gun control? Er no, arm the teachers, much better idea.

Then there's all the voter suppression legislation aimed at the poor black members of society. Why chance winning a fair vote, when you can fuck over the electorate and improve your chances?

Its the most fucked up country in the world.






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Re: The State Of The States. How Has America Got To Now?
« Reply #39 on: September 3, 2021, 12:37:27 pm »
If you look at things like the death penalty, access to free healthcare, gun laws, incarceration rates, levels of religiosity, circumcision and now abortion, America is quite firmly in the group of what their last "President" called the shithole countries.