Topic: Liverpool has lost it's world heritage status!

[gazzam1963]

There is railway lines no more than two miles from the airport , surely these coukd be extended and brought closer to the airport and as for a station there is plenty of land around the airport , big capital expenditure but that creates jobs but has a real lasting legacy . As for finance aren't we getting a lot more european money , I personally think the money spent on the arena was well spent and lots of that was European cash

[Nessy76]

not for me to sort out mate im pretty convinced it would be a major issue in this day and age though,are you referring to the line itself or the station? Youd be surprised by the amount of land around Liverpool Airport mate, there would be a way around it. I think its pathetic it hasnt got a direct rail link.

Problem is you'd either need to cross speke rd/speke boulevard (forget it) or run the line through several housing estates and a park to Cressington. Good luck with that!

The only other way would be to run the line away from the centre towards Widnes and go through Hale.

[Big Red Richie]

There's already rail lines into the likes of Ford, and the back of the new retail park etc, so you'd only have to get over the stumbling block of Speke Boulevard.

Failing that, isn't there already existing access into the Garston docks area?

Could not those lines be utilised and extended?  Extend them from the dock area, out to the edge of the river and run along the river's edge to the airport?

Although costing tens, maybe hundreds of millions, it's not as big a job as many would think, as there's already existing rail lines or access, within a comparitively short distance of the airport anyway.



I always liked the idea of a light rail, or mono-rail line, running the length of the Mersey from Speke into the city, but the views at Cressington and Otterspool would be a bit ruined, and we couldn't possibly do that now, could we.

[Roady]

There's already rail lines into the likes of Ford, and the back of the new retail park etc, so you'd only have to get over the stumbling block of Speke Boulevard.

Failing that, isn't there already existing access into the Garston docks area?

Could not those lines be utilised and extended?  Extend them from the dock area, out to the edge of the river and run along the river's edge to the airport?

Although costing tens, maybe hundreds of millions, it's not as big a job as many would think, as there's already existing rail lines or access, within a comparitively short distance of the airport anyway.



I always liked the idea of a light rail, or mono-rail line, running the length of the Mersey from Speke into the city, but the views at Cressington and Otterspool would be a bit ruined, and we couldn't possibly do that now, could we.

godd points there Richie utilsing the garston docks line would be best i guess.Really like the idea of a light railway/monorail.Be great that

[PeterJM]

There's already rail lines into the likes of Ford, and the back of the new retail park etc, so you'd only have to get over the stumbling block of Speke Boulevard.

Failing that, isn't there already existing access into the Garston docks area?

Could not those lines be utilised and extended?  Extend them from the dock area, out to the edge of the river and run along the river's edge to the airport?

Although costing tens, maybe hundreds of millions, it's not as big a job as many would think, as there's already existing rail lines or access, within a comparitively short distance of the airport anyway.



I always liked the idea of a light rail, or mono-rail line, running the length of the Mersey from Speke into the city, but the views at Cressington and Otterspool would be a bit ruined, and we couldn't possibly do that now, could we.

Speke Boulevard would be a bigger stumbling block because the one side of it is having house built at the moment so there'd be less scope for a rail line.I'd say branching the line that runs behind the retail park and Ford's is the way to go

[Big Red Richie]

As an engineering project for a monorail, it would be comparatively straight forward to build an elevated line, at the same height as the now, river wall, but out on the edge of the mersey running paralel, but about 5-10m into the river away from the wall.

Being that it would not be higher than the existing wall, the visual impact would not be that obtrusive.  If it was a monorail, it would be quite quiet compated to traditional 'rails', so the noise issue shouldn't imact that mutch.

The Speke end would take care of itself, as there's land available at the airport, but the city end might be a bit of an isssue regarding a terminus.

It's a pity theu've never thought about it serious, as Kings dock would of been ideal for such a project.

(Something like the image below)


Anyway, thats enough of my cloud thinking, as the country is skint, the city is skint, extending the existing rail network at that end of the city would be the more astute option, and there just isn't the political will to ever even get something like that off the ground. - Which is why we have the current fudge of getting off a train a SouthParkway, and getting a bus the rest of the journey.

[John_P]

Sounds like a great idea,but, is there a chance the track could bend?

[Big Red Richie]

Sounds like a great idea,but, is there a chance the track could bend?

I don't understand the question?

Not being a civil engineer, I wouldn't know the finer points of the engineering challenges involved in dropping a few hundred pylons into the river bed/shore line.

Anyway, as I said, it's never ever going to be a viable option, due to cost, the lack of will, or trying to persuade the residents of Cressington Park that it's for the betterment of the city. (NIMBY's)

[Big Red Richie]

Anyway, this threads taken a bit of a tangent.

Back on topic.   UNESCO, and Liverpool waters.

[Nessy76]

Speke Boulevard would be a bigger stumbling block because the one side of it is having house built at the moment so there'd be less scope for a rail line.I'd say branching the line that runs behind the retail park and Ford's is the way to go

Not sure where you mean. To the west of the airport, the only line South of Speke Rd/Speke Boulevard is on the far side of the Matchworks, opposite the South Liverpool Academy, so you'd need to go right through the Holy Trinity estate. To the East, you could track a line up past Alderfield Drive and join up with the line near where Speke blvd overpasses the railway there, but it means you'd be travelling in the wrong direction - by the time you were back at South Parkway, you'd be quicker on the bus.

[Nessy76]

Anyway, this threads taken a bit of a tangent.

Back on topic.   UNESCO, and Liverpool waters.

Well if we're running a monorail up to Kings Dock, it may as well go all the way past the 3 graces and up to L'pool Waters...

I'd like to see an airport-albert dock water taxi service, but I don't think the river's deep enough at the Speke end.

[gregor]

Sounds like a great idea,but, is there a chance the track could bend?

Not on your life, my Hindu friend!

[eAyeAddio]

..... we have the current fudge of getting off a train at SouthParkway, and getting a bus the rest of the journey.......

Exactly the same thing happened in London when the Dockland area was being re-generated.

They built a brand new rail system (Docklands Light Railway) and a brand new airport (London City)  at the same time by the same building company (Mowlem) and built them 2 miles apart.   Unbelievable!

It's really difficult to understand how thick you have to be to get a job in the planning department of public bodies.

[gazzalfc]

Can't say it hasn't been on the cards but looks like it will finally be official.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-57556884

Cheers chippy tits, you human thumb. This is your legacy

[rob1966]

Can't say it hasn't been on the cards but looks like it will finally be official.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-57556884

Cheers chippy tits, you human thumb. This is your legacy

Stupid fat twat

[Red Beret]

It's ridiculous.  I realise the dock system is important, but so is regeneration.  You'd think we were knocking down the fucking Liver Building. People flock to the city to see the Albert Dock, not Bramley Moore!

Imagine if we lose WHS because of BMD, and then Everton can't build their stadium, or go bust building it?

[CraigDS]

Yeah it’s a joke really. That section of the docks is a disgrace and needs to be sorted. As did/do other areas around the three graces and other historical sites.

[Indomitable_Carp]

It says that we´ve already filled in other docks, but how many have been filled in since 2004? I can´t think of any.

Either way if the choice is between UNESCO and developing the city (I mean really how many people are going to visit the docks without development anyway?) then the choice has to be the latter. And I say this as someone who loves history and the history of this city.

Obviously, like a great many others, I have found some of the choice of developents in this city questionnable. And perhaps if we could go back in time, we might have developed differently. Less identikit tall shiny things, and some more thoughtful and unique developments that would have kept more in tune with the surroundings including the docklands

It can´t all be blamed on Chippy Tits as some of these develpments predate that, but clearly his time in office has been disasterous in that respect. Still can´t believe some of the shite that has gone up (and some of the things that have been pulled down to make way....)

But we are where we are. If due to all the shite that has gone up, it means building anything else along the docklands leads losing UNESCO, then it is clear that we are going to have to lose UNESCO as the docks are still largely a wasteland (however historically important) which no ones visits and could be beneficial to the city if they were redeveloped (especially the poorer Northern half)

Personally I think Everton could have done a worse job designing the new stadium, although I also think they could have done a much much better job (Presumably it is down to expenses - but a modern red brick stadium would have been both unique and more fitting to the surroundings). But it sounds to me like it still would have led to losing UNESCO status due to the dock being filled in. And really who visits Bramley-Moore Dock? It stinks of shite and is a wide open wasteland.

[John_P]

It's genuinely ridiculous, BMD is an empty wasteland and Everton (hopefully) building a stadium there will lead to a regeneration of the area. Liverpool can't just leave areas of the city undeveloped because some morons who've never visited don't like it.

[So… Howard Philips]

And really who visits Bramley-Moore Dock? It stinks of shite and is a wide open wasteland.

So nothing will change when Everton build their vanity dome.

[BarryCrocker]

Back in 2003 our state (NSW) government made a massive call in moving the shipping and stevedoring facilities just west of the harbour bridge out of the harbour to provide more commercial office space and recreational areas. Work started in 2012 and will be finished in 2023.

The cost of the redevelopment is estimated to be $6 billion and the Sydney waterfront precinct will inject more than $1.5 billion into the NSW economy annually.

Historically it was an important area to the Aboriginal Cadigal people, then the First Fleet settled there in 1788 and it ran as a major shipping area until 2003. At its end it was a barren concrete jungle running along the west side of the CBD. It's about 22 hectares in size.

When it's finished it will house 23,000 workers and residents, Sydney's tallest building (Crown Casino), ferry terminals, a new metro station, a new natural headland, coves and 2km walkway around the harbour foreshore.

It's well worth looking at the transformation here: Start @ the bottom.

https://www.barangaroo.com/the-project/progress/timeline/

If Liverpool ends up with infrastructure, open recreational spaces and a new commercial and residential part of the city then the long term benefits its residents would be worth it. Yes, having UNESCO status is a nice badge to have on your chest but you need a liveable city.

[Son of Spion]

It's ridiculous.  I realise the dock system is important, but so is regeneration.  You'd think we were knocking down the fucking Liver Building. People flock to the city to see the Albert Dock, not Bramley Moore!

Imagine if we lose WHS because of BMD, and then Everton can't build their stadium, or go bust building it?

I hate seeing historic Liverpool docks being filled in, I really do. If dockland's are to be redeveloped then, for me, the actual docks themselves need to be the centrepiece. What would the Albert Dock be without the actual dock?

In the case of BMD, however, I sort of see it differently, due entirely to its direct neighbours. Any residential and/or retail right next to that steaming pile of shite is going to suffer. It's ugly to look at and offensive to smell. On the entire 'Liverpool Waters' stretch, BMD is by far the worst and by far the least desirable.

With the above in mind, the stadium would actually be a great screen between the sewage plant and the rest of the LW redevelopment. It's the least attractive site on the whole stretch, and something has to go there, and here we have  the Bitters willing to take the site on. If they can genuinely afford it, I say let them do it. As I said, that's the least attractive parcel of land on the entire stretch sorted out and a screen between the rest of the development and the sewage plant done and dusted.

For me, it's what goes between Waterloo Dock and BMD that really counts. If they get that right, it's all good. Thing is, when you see what's going up  in town you sort of despair. Recently we've had yet another non-descript, soulless, characterless block go up near Princes Dock. In many ways, this city does it to itself with the utter shite they allow to be built. They allowed Lime Street, the rail gateway to the city, to be redeveloped in such a poor, bland and characterless way too. But anyway, if they get the LW redevelopment right, BMD is not that relevant other than a pretty good screen shielding the rest of the development from the sewage treatment plant.

[Red Beret]

I hate seeing historic Liverpool docks being filled in, I really do. If dockland's are to be redeveloped then, for me, the actual docks themselves need to be the centrepiece. What would the Albert Dock be without the actual dock?

In the case of BMD, however, I sort of see it differently, due entirely to its direct neighbours. Any residential and/or retail right next to that steaming pile of shite is going to suffer. It's ugly to look at and offensive to smell. On the entire 'Liverpool Waters' stretch, BMD is by far the worst and by far the least desirable.

With the above in mind, the stadium would actually be a great screen between the sewage plant and the rest of the LW redevelopment. It's the least attractive site on the whole stretch, and something has to go there, and here we have  the Bitters willing to take the site on. If they can genuinely afford it, I say let them do it. As I said, that's the least attractive parcel of land on the entire stretch sorted out and a screen between the rest of the development and the sewage plant done and dusted.

For me, it's what goes between Waterloo Dock and BMD that really counts. If they get that right, it's all good. Thing is, when you see what's going up  in town you sort of despair. Recently we've had yet another non-descript, soulless, characterless block go up near Princes Dock. In many ways, this city does it to itself with the utter shite they allow to be built. They allowed Lime Street, the rail gateway to the city, to be redeveloped in such a poor, bland and characterless way too. But anyway, if they get the LW redevelopment right, BMD is not that relevant other than a pretty good screen shielding the rest of the development from the sewage treatment plant.

I totally agree with you on filling in docks.  Kings Dock was, of course, filled in; and it's chilling to think that the same fate could have befallen the Albert Dock, and that even the buildings there were at risk of demolition at once point.

It's mixed feelings when you look at Stanley Dock; relieved at what's been saved, but sadness when you know what's been lost.  And I don't want to see Bramley Moore filled in either - still less for a football stadium, which I don't think is an ideal use of the site for the area. It deserves better.

But as you say, it's better something goes there, and given the treatment works, there's not a lot of options.  And in the greater context of Liverpool Waters itself, I really want to see the whole project come to fruition.  I want to see some ambition for the city, and a few proper skyscrapers. 

I really don't think the UNESCO people understand the context of what's taking place.  There are arguably other aspects of LW that are less in keeping with WHS than Everton's stadium, but even those don't detract from what's THERE.  And surely that is what is important?  As I said before, it's not like we're demolishing the Three Graces. (And let's not forget, we filled in docks to build those, so this isn't a new thing for us!)

Liverpool needs to be a living, breathing city.  For too long I felt the top brass were pouring embalming fluid into Liverpool's veins, more interested in trading off its past than looking forward to its future.  Liverpool One was a big boost against that (although for the love of all that's holy, PLEASE stop naming bars and theatres after the Beatles!!).  Liverpool Waters is another big step to an important future for this city and the people who live in it.  And the people who live here are arguably just as, if not more, important than the people who visit.

[CraigDS]

I actually disagree. I think a stadium at that end is a great use for the site. It’s useless for residential really and entertainment wise that’s all the other side of town already. It needs something to be the flagship “attraction” which then allows shops, bars and housing to be viable around there.

I live on Liverpool Waters currently, and out there all the time, and it has the potential to be a fucking amazing area. With some more investment such as the cruise terminal (and IoM terminal), plus the hotel and apartments going up, it should attract bars and restaurants to the area to make use of the dock and river views which I feel the city really lacks.

[Red Beret]

Maybe I'm just suffering from anti Everton bias.  I'd rather put a multi storey there than let them have it.

[rob1966]

I hate seeing historic Liverpool docks being filled in, I really do. If dockland's are to be redeveloped then, for me, the actual docks themselves need to be the centrepiece. What would the Albert Dock be without the actual dock?

In the case of BMD, however, I sort of see it differently, due entirely to its direct neighbours. Any residential and/or retail right next to that steaming pile of shite is going to suffer. It's ugly to look at and offensive to smell. On the entire 'Liverpool Waters' stretch, BMD is by far the worst and by far the least desirable.

With the above in mind, the stadium would actually be a great screen between the sewage plant and the rest of the LW redevelopment. It's the least attractive site on the whole stretch, and something has to go there, and here we have  the Bitters willing to take the site on. If they can genuinely afford it, I say let them do it. As I said, that's the least attractive parcel of land on the entire stretch sorted out and a screen between the rest of the development and the sewage plant done and dusted.

For me, it's what goes between Waterloo Dock and BMD that really counts. If they get that right, it's all good. Thing is, when you see what's going up  in town you sort of despair. Recently we've had yet another non-descript, soulless, characterless block go up near Princes Dock. In many ways, this city does it to itself with the utter shite they allow to be built. They allowed Lime Street, the rail gateway to the city, to be redeveloped in such a poor, bland and characterless way too. But anyway, if they get the LW redevelopment right, BMD is not that relevant other than a pretty good screen shielding the rest of the development from the sewage treatment plant.

Is the UNESCO issues more to do with the development in the centre more than the docks? I've not properly been in town for about 5 years, I was delivering to Tesco last summer, Liverpool 1 and the one in Ablett House on Great Crosshall Street , but didn't really get a chance to have a proper look at what has been done to the City.

I'm not a fan of the big skyscrapers that have been built in Manc, they look shit and ruin the skyline, is that the kind of stuff going on in town these days?

[Red Beret]

Knocking down The Futurist and all that remaining original architecture on Lime Street was a bigger crime against WHS than building a skyscraper, or a stadium, on derelict dockland imo.

I rather like the new one that's gone up.  It's a bit bland, but at least it's not the same boring grey and black that most of the others seem to be.  The top of it reminds me of Deep Thought from Hitch-hikers.

[PeterJM]

I totally agree with you on filling in docks.  Kings Dock was, of course, filled in; and it's chilling to think that the same fate could have befallen the Albert Dock, and that even the buildings there were at risk of demolition at once point.

It's mixed feelings when you look at Stanley Dock; relieved at what's been saved, but sadness when you know what's been lost.  And I don't want to see Bramley Moore filled in either - still less for a football stadium, which I don't think is an ideal use of the site for the area. It deserves better.

But as you say, it's better something goes there, and given the treatment works, there's not a lot of options.  And in the greater context of Liverpool Waters itself, I really want to see the whole project come to fruition.  I want to see some ambition for the city, and a few proper skyscrapers. 

I really don't think the UNESCO people understand the context of what's taking place.  There are arguably other aspects of LW that are less in keeping with WHS than Everton's stadium, but even those don't detract from what's THERE.  And surely that is what is important?  As I said before, it's not like we're demolishing the Three Graces. (And let's not forget, we filled in docks to build those, so this isn't a new thing for us!)

Liverpool needs to be a living, breathing city.  For too long I felt the top brass were pouring embalming fluid into Liverpool's veins, more interested in trading off its past than looking forward to its future.  Liverpool One was a big boost against that (although for the love of all that's holy, PLEASE stop naming bars and theatres after the Beatles!!).  Liverpool Waters is another big step to an important future for this city and the people who live in it.  And the people who live here are arguably just as, if not more, important than the people who visit.

Waterloo dock being the current target of the developers for infilling so they can build apartment blocks on it.

[rob1966]

Knocking down The Futurist and all that remaining original architecture on Lime Street was a bigger crime against WHS than building a skyscraper, or a stadium, on derelict dockland imo.

I rather like the new one that's gone up.  It's a bit bland, but at least it's not the same boring grey and black that most of the others seem to be.  The top of it reminds me of Deep Thought from Hitch-hikers.

That's what I was wondering - not been down Lime Street in years so looked on google maps, what a monstrosity

[Red Beret]

That's what I was wondering - not been down Lime Street in years so looked on google maps, what a monstrosity

It's fucking horrendous, and the other side is little better, which probably dates from the 50s.  There's almost no original buildings left on that entire street now.

Waterloo dock being the current target of the developers for infilling so they can build apartment blocks on it.

Now THAT would be criminal.

[Son of Spion]

Is the UNESCO issues more to do with the development in the centre more than the docks? I've not properly been in town for about 5 years, I was delivering to Tesco last summer, Liverpool 1 and the one in Ablett House on Great Crosshall Street , but didn't really get a chance to have a proper look at what has been done to the City.

I'm not a fan of the big skyscrapers that have been built in Manc, they look shit and ruin the skyline, is that the kind of stuff going on in town these days?

As far as I'm aware, their issue is with what's being proposed along the waterfront, because they feel it will detract from the current waterfront. In the past they've shown concern over the non-descript tall boxes going up which ruin the skyline. The one that's just gone up to the north of the Malmaison Hotel is awful. I think it's called Plaza1821. Right next to the beautiful and historic Waterloo Dock we also have the dreadful Waterside Apartments. Not a high-rise, but as bland and boring as could possibly be. There is a development at the western end of Leeds Street called 'Infinity Waters' which has been started. This will have three 'skyscrapers' at 27, 33 and 39 storeys respectively. At the other end, at the bottom of Parliament Street, we now have the X1 Tower at 253ft tall. From what I've seen, the Liverpool Waters proposals also include a lot of high-rise buildings too.

[CraigDS]

Waterloo dock being the current target of the developers for infilling so they can build apartment blocks on it.

No it isn’t.

They want to fill in a far corner and edge to square it off and then put a “floating” (4/5ft over) footpath over the dock to connect the far docks to the central docks so you can walk along the water rather than have to go along a busy Waterloo Rd.

It makes complete sense to me and should be the sort of regen that gets done as it makes the dock area usable.

[kopite321]

I am working on one of the worlds most iconic super tall projects in the Middle East; as much as I love Liverpool and own a gaff in the city in the world heritage area, the city is dead in regards to major projects, you count the tower cranes on the skyline and the lack of imagination on the waterfront development for future generations, it piss poor. That UNESCO badge does fuck all for the city.

[Indomitable_Carp]

I am working on one of the worlds most iconic super tall projects in the Middle East; as much as I love Liverpool and own a gaff in the city in the world heritage area, the city is dead in regards to major projects, you count the tower cranes on the skyline and the lack of imagination on the waterfront development for future generations, it piss poor. That UNESCO badge does fuck all for the city.

Depends if you consider identicle looking "super tall projects" that you can see in any city from here, to Melbourne, to China, to the Middle East, to Santiago, to North America, even to Africa, as "imaginative". I don´t really. I think they are boring, often ugly, and don´t do anything to seperate your city from all the others with big dick-waving projects sticking up randomly wherever some billionaire invester has managed to grease a few wheels. Few places appeal to me less then the likes of Dubai, Qatar, Abu Dabai or increasingly Riyadh - but also by the same token if your ambition is to put up a load of skyscrapers then you are never going to top those places anyway

I do agree with you that developments in Liverpool lack imagination. But I find those most lacking in imagination tend to be the skyscrapers, while at the same time managing to be disproportionate and destructive to the unique feel of a city like Liverpool. Funnily enough, they also tend to be the projects passed by our last dodgy administration and their developer mates.

It is possible to have interesting and unique development projects that don´t just involve sticking up shiny 23 story+ towers. The UNESCO badge has done fuck all because we have had councils paying out to developers who definitely do lack imagination. Done right, the docks could have been done in a unique manner, that maintained UNESCO status and still got people in from all over.

Skyscrapers really aren´t the be all and end all of development projects, and increasingly they are big white elephants that end up empty because of sky high rentals (no pun intended!!). Off the top of my head the Shard in London, the Gran Torre in Santiago, the Beetham Tower in Manchester and other tall projects designed to be ´icononic´are all lying half empty. Of those projects I think the only one I actually like is the Gran Torre, and thats only because it reflects the light off the Andes Mountains (especially when they are covered in snow) which absolutely dwarf that tower and everything else in the city. They make the money put in to the Gran Torre to make it the tallest building in Latin America look faintly ridiculous.

[kopite321]

I agree with many of your points, and I am not saying that super tall towers are the answer; however, when you see the potential for the riverfront, which is untapped, it is frustrating. Also, the lack of imagination anchoring the outlying areas of the city, which have gone without investment to the waterfront.

[Indomitable_Carp]

I agree with many of your points, and I am not saying that super tall towers are the answer; however, when you see the potential for the riverfront, which is untapped, it is frustrating. Also, the lack of imagination anchoring the outlying areas of the city, which have gone without investment to the waterfront.

I agree it is very frustrating indeed! Especially given the oppurtunity we have had to turn things around off the back of the Capital of Culture. Instead we got lumped with Joe Anderson´s administration and his crony mates (and of course a Tory government that has decimated council funding does not help at all). Local administration has been nothing short of a disgrace.

By the way I didn´t mean denigrate whichever massive building you might be working on (Which is it by the way?). I just don´t think its the way forward for Liverpool.

[kopite321]

Lusail Plaza Towers.. Sir Norman Foster design. Four towers.. two at 50 floors and a further two at 70 floors.

https://www.archdaily.com/954997/foster-plus-partners-unveils-lusail-towers-in-qatar-a-landmark-project-for-a-new-central-business-district-in-the-city

[CornerFlag]

Lusail Plaza Towers.. Sir Norman Foster design. Four towers.. two at 50 floors and a further two at 70 floors.

https://www.archdaily.com/954997/foster-plus-partners-unveils-lusail-towers-in-qatar-a-landmark-project-for-a-new-central-business-district-in-the-city

The "Turd Rolled In Glitter" for the World Cup next year.

[PeterJM]

No it isn’t.

They want to fill in a far corner and edge to square it off and then put a “floating” (4/5ft over) footpath over the dock to connect the far docks to the central docks so you can walk along the water rather than have to go along a busy Waterloo Rd.

It makes complete sense to me and should be the sort of regen that gets done as it makes the dock area usable.

https://www.savewaterloodock.com/why-we-are-fighting

Has this proposal been scrapped then?

[CraigDS]

https://www.savewaterloodock.com/why-we-are-fighting

Has this proposal been scrapped then?

As far as I’m aware yeah it has and there is a new app in which keeps about 90% of the dock.