Topic: Round Table: Hosepipeīs Chelsea 1 - Kloppīs Liverpool 3

[jckliew]

I am so happy, I have nothing to say.

[Henry Kissinger]

Another excellent OP Baba, love your insights.

I'm a complete muppet when it comes to tactics, etc (although there are some people who would suggest I'm a complete muppet full stop), so I have a question.

I watched MNF earlier, and Carra talked about how deep Mikel and Ramires were and questioned why they did this. Well, was that a direct consequence of Firmino playing in the space between midfield and defenders or were they given that directive by Mourinho because their defending has been dodgy of late?

[rickardinho1]

Another excellent OP Baba, love your insights.

I'm a complete muppet when it comes to tactics, etc (although there are some people who would suggest I'm a complete muppet full stop), so I have a question.

I watched MNF earlier, and Carra talked about how deep Mikel and Ramires were and questioned why they did this. Well, was that a direct consequence of Firmino playing in the space between midfield and defenders or were they given that directive by Mourinho because their defending has been dodgy of late?

It's anyone's guess, but it's probably a combination of things:

1. Mentality - too scared to concede again so they drop deeper to protect their lead.

2. Instructions pre-match to sit deep and pick up second balls from Benteke (who didn't end up starting).

3. Movement of our front 3, particularly Firmino coming short, which made it difficult for them to know who to mark. We overloaded that area of the pitch with Can, Phil, Bob, and Lallana, which made it tough to pick up runners, leading to the fear in point 1 above.

4. Mikel is a really average player. Having another DM next to him in Ramires may have diluted their combined effectiveness as neither had a clue who was supposed to tackle, so instead of one guy having that designated role neither of them did it as they both expected the other to bail them out an do the tackling.

[Runehammer]

Brilliant thread, and talking of dodgy defending, don't we look so much more comfortable playing the higher line?

I'm sure it's helping Mignolet as it's so much clearer, decision making wise, to know when he has to make his move, whereas before there seemed to me to be a tendency for everyone to leave it to someone else to sort it out.

Anyhow when they scored I thought fuck it that's a draw at best, but once we equalised just before HT I knew they were there for the taking.  Trevor Francis is a muppet tho', suggesting a change inside 5 minutes ffs.

[marios_moustache]

In America, the NBC coverage has an option to watch the game via a "Tactical Cam" - an almost-overhead camera, which covers roughly 1/2 of the field from a top-down perspective.

Just after half-time, the main camera was having issues, so I switched for a while. What was fascinating is that it was actually Can who was controlling the pressing during that period - telling Coutinho and Firminho when to press and when to hold.

One of the US national team's staff said recently that at the top level, the players who actually control the press are actually the centre backs - or at least, that's what the centre backs will always say.

In reality, during the development of a new system, where teams can often get stretched (and especially in the transition-centric Premier League), it's more than likely going to be coming from the deepest centre mid more often than not, as they'll have the best view to tell whether the forwards pressing at any particular time will over-stretch the midfield's supporting line or not.

It will be interesting to see how pressing patterns and triggers vary depending on the opposition - we might sit a little deeper and confront a little lower against a team with quick, counter-attacking players such as Palace, than we would against a team who like to pack the midfield or play via a sole striker as an attacking focal point.

With regards to Can, I am a big fan of his. Yes he still has a lot of development to do as player, but I mentioned last season that he does have very good leadership skills. A prime example, was against Beskitas last season with the Mario penalty incident where he told Sturridge to come and celebrate

[Cork Red]

I have to admit, I have no fucking idea what any of this means:



It's nothing new, me being baffled at one of these charts. Those heat maps may as well be Teletubby sperm samples for all I can see in them. It feels like the more the days pass and the deeper we go into analysis, the less I understand. I do get the gist of what's happening tactically, though, on a more macro level. And I fucking love it.

Hahaha!  I'm glad I'm not the only one!  Those 'Passing Lane' charts remind me of the maps you used to see printed on Airlines in-flight magazines which showed you the routes between airports!

As for the match, always brilliant to beat that lot particularly on their home patch.  Only a few weeks into the new regime and already we're showing signs of major improvement, both individually and as a team.  If we get a bit luckier with injuries, I don't see any reason why we can't push for a top 4 finish and have a good cut off one or more of the cups.

Great to hear the travelling Kop in such good voice.  Particularly loved the "You're not special anymore" chants!

[SerbianScouser]

Thing I would like to ask is : We had 64% possession in the first half, 57% overall - are the Klopp tweaks in the new structure regarding our positioning making us be so good on the ball all of the sudden or was it the case of Chelsea`s game plan being to be so deep and defensive intentionally or was it the combination of these two things.

Even with Chelsea being in a slump imo you still need to be an elite passing team to go there and thoroughly dominate the ball like we did. Chelsea under Mourinho are always happy to let teams have more of the ball in big games so they can make mistakes but it was a bit extreme on Saturday. 

[Trendisnotdestiny]

I really like the approach taken against Chelsea, people can complain about not having a proper striker but away at Stamford bridge we dominated possession and I think a lot of that was a consequence of our false nine setup which was able to overload midfield. To my thinking it's an option to consider going forward for tough European fixtures or when Sturridge and Benteke are tired/injured.  Most impressive was the fantastic team pressing effort, everybody was good but I thought Firmino and Lucas stood out with their ability to win the ball and keep play moving forward, these two are obviously going to be important going forward.

I still feel like the balance isn't quite right. Can as CM isn't quite dynamic enough, nor consistent enough in general play and I think Milner as a wide option lacks ideal dynamism to be on the wing and we'd benefit from a proper goal scorer to compliment our other guys in attack. I do rate Milner as a players though and his pressing is an asset, if other options weren't as one paced as Firmino, Lallana and Coutinho then I think he'd be a great player for us.  I think Sturridge potentially on the right wing and Henderson could really add to this setup but already to me it looks a step up from performances under Rodgers earlier this season.

All in all though we've got to be happy with the direction things are moving.

Good points Dan.   

My hope is that soon a healthy Henderson slots in, provides us some dynamism, which may allow for as a few alternative strategies involving combinations of our captain, Can, Milner, Rossiter, Allen, Lucas, Texiera ---- the hardest working midfield in the prem etc....

Good things come to those who Gegen ze press

[Grobbelrevell]

Brilliant thread, and talking of dodgy defending, don't we look so much more comfortable playing the higher line?

I think the compact nature of the side right now is making it far easier. Most notably because it allows us to press aggressively as a unit when we concede possession, and in turn to (1) shut down counter-attacks before they begin - and we did that extremely effectively against Chelsea, and (2) to build and maintain pressure. This was always a big frustration of mine under Rodgers, and one of the things that contributed to the fragility of our defence during his tenure IMO. I was of the opinion that certain players (*cough* Skrtel *cough*) were instinctively gravitating towards areas of the field that they were comfortable, but seeing said players aggressively patrolling beyond the half way line on Saturday, and at times against Spurs as well, it suggests that may have been instruction previously. The whole '6 second' press theory that we were sold under Rodgers was never going to be entirely effective without this compression, and we we're starting to see the benefits of it now.

It will be interesting to see how we cope with Crystal Palace at the weekend because they certainly possess a number of very direct, pacey players who have caused us problems in the past. They're more than capable of catching us out should they manage to work through the press. If that happens, how comfortable will our existing defenders be if they find themselves exposed, with attackers running directly at them? Will we then find ourselves calling for replacements who are more comfortable in one-v-one situations? Defenders with more pace? A more aggressive / pro-active goal keeper? My instinct is to say 'yes' to that.

[BabuYagu]

Another excellent OP Baba, love your insights.

I'm a complete muppet when it comes to tactics, etc (although there are some people who would suggest I'm a complete muppet full stop), so I have a question.

I watched MNF earlier, and Carra talked about how deep Mikel and Ramires were and questioned why they did this. Well, was that a direct consequence of Firmino playing in the space between midfield and defenders or were they given that directive by Mourinho because their defending has been dodgy of late?

I never saw MNF so I cannot comment on it, but Rikardinho gave a good answer and it might have hit the nail on the head. So Iīll approach from a different point of view that him so you have several very different answers.

From what I know of human psychology, the time you are the most fucked is when you have too many problems to solve, too many decisions to make. Itīs why, when you are facing a mountain of problems in real life the best advice anybody can ever give is for you to put them in a pile in terms of most urgent first, clear your mind, then pick them up and solve them 1 at a time. We can all think of a moment in our life where this applies, right? When you tried to solve them all at once, you end up doing nothing, feeling sorry for yourself and spiralling out of control.

So now applying that to football, I think of Lucas Leiva as our problem solver. Every time I see him making "another stupid needless foul" I can always see the problem for which he felt his action was the solution. The reason Lucas looks like he is playing football in God mode right now is because our compactness means that in his zone he has far less problems to solve. So he is now dealing with them 1 at a time and bossing the fuck out of them.

Now you look at Ramires & Mikel. IMO whatever Mourinho said to them was irrelevant. Simply because they just had an endless stream of problems to solve, often 4 or 5 at a time. The human brain canīt cope with that so it just shuts down. They ended up doing nothing at all, feeling sorry for themselves and losing grip of the game. The onus wasnīt on Mikel & Ramires to solve those problems, there were too many. It was on Mourinho to see this and react to it. And I`m amazed he didnīt because he is both tactically adept and studied psychology. Mikel and Ramires were both fucked. Deer in the headlights.

Here would be the list of problems they had:-
1. First responsibility is to close down our CM so they donīt have time and space on the ball but...
2. They were outnumbered 3-2 in CM and
3. Firmino was dropping in behind them meaning if either of us pushes out he is in acres of space in the most dangerous zone of the pitch plus
4. Lallana and Coutinho are taking it in turns (or sometimes both at once) to wander into our zone of the pitch just to mind fuck us. The little bastards!

So that is too many. Whatever they try to do there they are on a hiding to nothing. Mourinho, I think, assessed it and thought solving #1 would solve the problem. Hazard wasnīt picking up Lucas so he hooked him in place of Kenedy. This just meant Kenedy had to play his own little game of "Sakho or Lucas".

Too many choices -- good or bad -- can be mentally exhausting

Ever been in that situation? Where your brain starts reacting to stuff much much slower than you know you are capable of simply because it has been stressed with too many problems? You watch things happen in slow motion, almost like a movie reel inside your head. You know what you SHOULD be doing, but you just arenīt doing it. Well I reckon that is how Mikel and Ramires were by the time Benteke got on the pitch. Mourinho then tries to counter that by replacing Mikel for Fabregas. But this just added an additional problem as Fabregas is even worse defensively than Mikel plus he removed the one guy who could play in front of Benteke and somewhat reduce his effectiveness from long balls. Why he went for Fabregas over Matic is anybodys guess, but that one decision allowed Benteke to just dominate his area of the pitch at will.

[rickardinho1]

Thanks for the kind words mate, but I think your answer does a much better job describing what went wrong for Mikel and Ramires. Btw, I think I forgot to comment on it earlier but your write up on Lucas in the OP was absolutely golden.

Your comments on psychology are spot on. From a tactical perspective Mourinho's decision to play Hazard centrally really hung Mikel and Ramires out to dry, as they got no help whatsoever from up front. Neither Costa or Hazard pressed Sakho or Lucas at all, giving us acres of time and space to find a pass through. As you said, Mourinho then compounded the problem by introducing Fabregas who was never going to be able to solve the problems in midfield by himself.

That said, despite Chelsea's positional weaknesses off the ball we were rather poor at taking advantage of this in the first half. We completely dominated the ball and space on the pitch, and found it easy to get to the final third, but once there we did very little in terms of penetrating their area. It's notable that despite our dominance the only real chance prior to our first goal was the scruffy volley by Lallana from Milner's cross.

I think Carragher pointed out on MNF how few runners in behind we had, so whilst we did dominate possession in midfield with Firmino dropping in, we lacked a danger beyond that would have tested Terry and Cahill the same way Mané managed to do for Southampton.

There were clear signs of more one-two's between our midfielders in build-up play though (see Coutinho and Benteke all-touch videos for examples) so our attacking play is quite clearly being worked on and quick inter plays are starting to creep into our performances and should help in that regard. Playing Firmino in the No.10 role facing goal and with a proper striker ahead should help considerably in this respect going forwards too, as it did once Benteke was introduced against Chelsea.

[Chakan]

Why he went for Fabregas over Matic is anybodys guess, but that one decision allowed Benteke to just dominate his area of the pitch at will.

You have to figure Matic has been one of the vocal players behind the scenes to criticize Mourinho as it's the only reason Matic wouldn't have stepped onto the pitch. He could have been their plug to stop us centrally as he's done before with other teams. Mourinho dropping him was a blessing for us.

[stockdam]

I watched MNF earlier, and Carra talked about how deep Mikel and Ramires were and questioned why they did this. Well, was that a direct consequence of Firmino playing in the space between midfield and defenders or were they given that directive by Mourinho because their defending has been dodgy of late?

I'd say this was deliberate and came from their manager who wanted to play tight at the back and hit us on the counter. he probably thought that he could draw us onto them and then leave our two centre backs exposed on the quick counter.

[Cream147]

The conversation about tactics and how and why we won the game is a bit out of my league on this occasion. Instead, I just want to contrast two incidents. Diego Costa kicks our man in the chest, right under the referee's nose. Skrtel reacts angrily, but takes it no further, and not one complaint to the referee or anything. Minutes later, Lucas trips someone harmlessly in the middle of the field. Mourinho starts throwing himself around like a 5 year old, and his players surround the referee in a disgusting attempt to get a fellow professional sent off (a scene that has become only too familiar over the years - this is John Terry's bread and butter). Winning is of course most important, but also important is how one wins. Liverpool Football Club come away with a lot of credit, and Chelsea look like the embarrassment that they've been for a decade now.

[rickardinho1]

The conversation about tactics and how and why we won the game is a bit out of my league on this occasion. Instead, I just want to contrast two incidents. Diego Costa kicks our man in the chest, right under the referee's nose. Skrtel reacts angrily, but takes it no further, and not one complaint to the referee or anything. Minutes later, Lucas trips someone harmlessly in the middle of the field. Mourinho starts throwing himself around like a 5 year old, and his players surround the referee in a disgusting attempt to get a fellow professional sent off (a scene that has become only too familiar over the years - this is John Terry's bread and butter). Winning is of course most important, but also important is how one wins. Liverpool Football Club come away with a lot of credit, and Chelsea look like the embarrassment that they've been for a decade now.

Good post. Whilst I welcome gentlemanly play and conduct, I think players need to be professional in these circumstances. I was  surprised but glad that Skrtel didn't make more of it, but none of our other players got in Clattenburg's ear about it like Henderson or Gerrard usually do. I don't mean that we should do what Mikel + Terry + Costa and a few others did when surrounding Clattenburg, but you need someone to remind the referee that Costa kicked him in the ribs. Like it or not referee's can be influenced, they're only human.

One situation that comes to mind is the goal Newcastle scored against City in 2014 that was disallowed for offside for a player who was deemed to be influencing Hart's line of sight (when he wasn't). City's defenders all unanimously raised their arms and made a big deal out of it immediately, and subsequently got the goal disallowed and won the game. A team who didn't react like that never would have got the goal overturned.

I'm not saying you should embrassingly chase the referee, or play act, but you need to be smart about things like that and remind the referee of what he saw so that he knows that you know that it should be a red for Costa.

Anyways, I'm glad Costa didn't get a red, as that would have meant that we'd have played against a parked bus and probably struggled to score as easily as we did in the end. As you said we also came out of that game looking like a sensible team who let the referee get on with his job, whilst Chelsea strengthen the perception that they are a bunch of cheats.

[Abraham]

I like Moreno, but for their goal I would have slapped him round the face with a big wet fish. Ball watching. At this level, leaves me perplexed. That said, Milner was far too soft on the left wing with his man, which led to the cross. Team game etc.

I did however like the ongoing development of our shape, front to back, it's made us so much more solid in such a short time I can barely believe it.

Confidence. What a game changer that word is in football. And following a start to the season where we seemed bereft of it all round the park, it now seems to be growing game by game.

Chelsea were poor tbf, but this is a game I'm not convinced we would have won a month ago. But here we are after a 1-3 victory, and for me at least, lots of promising signs on several fronts, that we are improving, and dare I say it becoming a force again. A side difficult to beat and who will rip the oppo apart given only half a chance.

Early days but I'm excited as can be. If injuries go our way, I have no doubt we will all be filled with pride, enthusiasm and the sheer joy that comes from our club being back on an upward trajectory, with strong leadership and tons of as yet unrealised potential.

[sempi]

Good post. Whilst I welcome gentlemanly play and conduct, I think players need to be professional in these circumstances. I was  surprised but glad that Skrtel didn't make more of it, but none of our other players got in Clattenburg's ear about it like Henderson or Gerrard usually do. I don't mean that we should do what Mikel + Terry + Costa and a few others did when surrounding Clattenburg, but you need someone to remind the referee that Costa kicked him in the ribs. Like it or not referee's can be influenced, they're only human.

One situation that comes to mind is the goal Newcastle scored against City in 2014 that was disallowed for offside for a player who was deemed to be influencing Hart's line of sight (when he wasn't). City's defenders all unanimously raised their arms and made a big deal out of it immediately, and subsequently got the goal disallowed and won the game. A team who didn't react like that never would have got the goal overturned.

I'm not saying you should embrassingly chase the referee, or play act, but you need to be smart about things like that and remind the referee of what he saw so that he knows that you know that it should be a red for Costa.

Anyways, I'm glad Costa didn't get a red, as that would have meant that we'd have played against a parked bus and probably struggled to score as easily as we did in the end. As you said we also came out of that game looking like a sensible team who let the referee get on with his job, whilst Chelsea strengthen the perception that they are a bunch of cheats.

Someone once said to me: " Sometimes the best revenge is to show the world you are better than your opponent". He meant don't drag yourself down to their level. Klattenburg should have booked 1 or 2 of the Chelsea sea that surrounded him, after the Lucas foul. To me watching the replay , it looked like Lucas got the ball on both occasions and his body ran into the player.
BTW, I watched part of the game this morning and Costa clearly kicks Milner when both went for the ball. Guess Klattenburg gives the foul to?
They got what they deserved, nothing!

[stockdam]

The conversation about tactics and how and why we won the game is a bit out of my league on this occasion. Instead, I just want to contrast two incidents. Diego Costa kicks our man in the chest, right under the referee's nose. Skrtel reacts angrily, but takes it no further, and not one complaint to the referee or anything. Minutes later, Lucas trips someone harmlessly in the middle of the field. Mourinho starts throwing himself around like a 5 year old, and his players surround the referee in a disgusting attempt to get a fellow professional sent off (a scene that has become only too familiar over the years - this is John Terry's bread and butter). Winning is of course most important, but also important is how one wins. Liverpool Football Club come away with a lot of credit, and Chelsea look like the embarrassment that they've been for a decade now.

Yes and I said the same. Look how Mourinho was so delighted and excited when he thought Lucas was being sent off........he was like a dog with two dicks. Then when the ref didn't sent him off, Mourinho sarcastically clapped the ref. Such a pathetic person. His team are so devoid of character and ideas that he clings at straws. After the match he goes through a pantomime; so annoyed that he cannot speak.

Look back and see how the Chelsea players swarm around the ref trying desperately to get their way........pathetic.

As you said, Skrtel made no big deal about it and helped the ref make the correct decision which was to keep Costa on. The Liverpool players stayed away from the ref  except a few who were more interested in helping Lucas and keeping the Chelsea players away.

Such a cheap pathetic club from manager down to players. We don't stoop to such unprofessional behaviour which is a credit to the way that the club is run.

[Chakan]

Yes and I said the same. Look how Mourinho was so delighted and excited when he thought Lucas was being sent off........he was like a dog with two dicks. Then when the ref didn't sent him off, Mourinho sarcastically clapped the ref. Such a pathetic person. His team are so devoid of character and ideas that he clings at straws. After the match he goes through a pantomime; so annoyed that he cannot speak.

Look back and see how the Chelsea players swarm around the ref trying desperately to get their way........pathetic.

As you said, Skrtel made no big deal about it and helped the ref make the correct decision which was to keep Costa on. The Liverpool players stayed away from the ref  except a few who were more interested in helping Lucas and keeping the Chelsea players away.

Such a cheap pathetic club from manager down to players. We don't stoop to such unprofessional behaviour which is a credit to the way that the club is run.

Agree with that, although one thing, Costa clearly kicked out at Skrtel and connected with his chest, that's a red card anyday of the week. So not taking action against Costa wasn't the correct decision. Just because Skrtel doesn't make a lot of it doesn't make it the right.

[rednick75]

Like how we look like we're playing with a purpose and intent.  Unlike the headless chicken football we've been playing until recently.  I know it was only a sub standard Chelsea but psychologically its massive, especially as we dismantled them in their own back yard and came from behind.  All positive stuff but I'm keeping my feet on the ground.  Still though, Coutinho will be more confident as will the rest of the lads.  Sakho is an even badder beast and Ibe looks like he's got his mojo back.   I look forward to our games now, long may it continue.  YNWA!!

[Henry Kissinger]

It's anyone's guess, but it's probably a combination of things:

1. Mentality - too scared to concede again so they drop deeper to protect their lead.

2. Instructions pre-match to sit deep and pick up second balls from Benteke (who didn't end up starting).

3. Movement of our front 3, particularly Firmino coming short, which made it difficult for them to know who to mark. We overloaded that area of the pitch with Can, Phil, Bob, and Lallana, which made it tough to pick up runners, leading to the fear in point 1 above.

4. Mikel is a really average player. Having another DM next to him in Ramires may have diluted their combined effectiveness as neither had a clue who was supposed to tackle, so instead of one guy having that designated role neither of them did it as they both expected the other to bail them out an do the tackling.

I'd say this was deliberate and came from their manager who wanted to play tight at the back and hit us on the counter. he probably thought that he could draw us onto them and then leave our two centre backs exposed on the quick counter.

Cheers for that fellas. I've highlighted these bits because I don't understand how a 'world class manager/coach' (allegedly) doesn't change things at half time. If he's been caught out by Klopp's tactics, then during that first half he can see where the problems lie. Instead, he waits fifteen minutes then pulls Hazard for Kenedy, I'm assuming to inject a bit of pace into their counter-attacks.
Six minutes after we bring on Benteke, he replaces Mikel with Fabregas. Two minutes after we take the lead, he takes off Azpilicueta and brings on Falcao. 

To me, he seemed to be constantly reacting to Klopp's chess-like moves instead of being proactive.

So now applying that to football, I think of Lucas Leiva as our problem solver. Every time I see him making 1. "another stupid needless foul" I can always see the problem for which he felt his action was the solution. The reason Lucas looks like he is playing football in God mode right now is because our compactness means that in his zone he has far less problems to solve. So he is now dealing with them 1 at a time and bossing the fuck out of them.

Now you look at Ramires & Mikel. IMO whatever Mourinho said to them was irrelevant. Simply because they just had an endless stream of problems to solve, often 4 or 5 at a time. The human brain canīt cope with that so it just shuts down. They ended up doing nothing at all, feeling sorry for themselves and losing grip of the game. 2. The onus wasnīt on Mikel & Ramires to solve those problems, there were too many. It was on Mourinho to see this and react to it. And I`m amazed he didnīt because he is both tactically adept and studied psychology. Mikel and Ramires were both fucked. Deer in the headlights.

Here would be the list of problems they had:-
1. First responsibility is to close down our CM so they donīt have time and space on the ball but...
2. They were outnumbered 3-2 in CM and
3. Firmino was dropping in behind them meaning if either of us pushes out he is in acres of space in the most dangerous zone of the pitch plus
4. Lallana and Coutinho are taking it in turns (or sometimes both at once) to wander into our zone of the pitch just to mind fuck us. The little bastards!

So that is too many. Whatever they try to do there they are on a hiding to nothing. Mourinho, I think, assessed it and thought solving #1 would solve the problem. Hazard wasnīt picking up Lucas so he hooked him in place of Kenedy. This just meant Kenedy had to play his own little game of "Sakho or Lucas".

Cheers for your reply mate, made very interesting reading. I've highlighted a couple of things:

1. I heard Lucas in his post-match interview admit that the fouls he made early on in the game were to stop/break up the play. I'm more than happy for him to do this as long as it's in the opposition half or not too near our box.   

2. See my reply to rickardinho1 and Stockdam. You mentioned you were amazed JM didn't react to what was happening, do you think this might be because Klopp has the angle on him?

[Henry Kissinger]

Thanks for the kind words mate, but I think your answer does a much better job describing what went wrong for Mikel and Ramires. Btw, I think I forgot to comment on it earlier but your write up on Lucas in the OP was absolutely golden.

Your comments on psychology are spot on. From a tactical perspective Mourinho's decision to play Hazard centrally really hung Mikel and Ramires out to dry, as they got no help whatsoever from up front. Neither Costa or Hazard pressed Sakho or Lucas at all, giving us acres of time and space to find a pass through. As you said, Mourinho then compounded the problem by introducing Fabregas who was never going to be able to solve the problems in midfield by himself.

That said, despite Chelsea's positional weaknesses off the ball we were rather poor at taking advantage of this in the first half. We completely dominated the ball and space on the pitch, and found it easy to get to the final third, but once there we did very little in terms of penetrating their area. It's notable that despite our dominance the only real chance prior to our first goal was the scruffy volley by Lallana from Milner's cross.

I think Carragher pointed out on MNF how few runners in behind we had, so whilst we did dominate possession in midfield with Firmino dropping in, we lacked a danger beyond that would have tested Terry and Cahill the same way Mané managed to do for Southampton.

There were clear signs of more one-two's between our midfielders in build-up play though (see Coutinho and Benteke all-touch videos for examples) so our attacking play is quite clearly being worked on and quick inter plays are starting to creep into our performances and should help in that regard. Playing Firmino in the No.10 role facing goal and with a proper striker ahead should help considerably in this respect going forwards too, as it did once Benteke was introduced against Chelsea.

Again, cheers for the considered reply mate.

The bit I've bolded is the bit I didn't get, until you mentioned mentality and fear in your earlier post. It's going to be interesting to see how JM restores the distinct lack of confidence in their back line.

Here's hoping he never does.

[Filler.]

We have 1 more believer.

I didn't hear him say that about Klopp getting it all right at the end, would have capped it off for me. I DO remember him saying that we needed to change after 5 minutes tho. Couldn't quite believe it. Ha.


Well, what a lovely result. At work, on the Friday, I was feeling quite bullish. I knew that when I said we'd win 6-1 away from home to Chelsea that it would raise an eyebrow, but I was merely reflecting some confidence. The hope was that Benteke would start. When I found out he wasn't starting, I pulled back on my predictions somewhat to a 1-5 win. Still bullish, still in the clouds, but hey... when does one think like that at Stamford Bridge? Obviously, in the BBC Predictor game I went with a 1-1. Oh ye football gods, rain hell on me please. Had a feeling that Moreno would score... and I sort of envisaged something very close to his chance that he oh so nearly buried. Eyes, Moreno... EYES... give him eyes you're going far corner.


When the teams got announced we were in for some surprises weren't we? Mikel? With Ramires? OK. Can, Milner, Lucas... Coutinho dropping in, Firmino would would probably do a bit of that, Hazard or Oscar wanting to get forward. I thought, yeah, we should have that midfield. Ramires can pop up with a goal of course, tho was surprised at how few he's scored for them when it got mentioned, but that front three and Costa is/should be, a force to be reckoned with. Did we have that? Firmino, Lallana, and Coutinho... there were big doubts there, but if you win the game in the middle, you've got a better chance of winning the game than if you have higher possession stats for me, plus we had Klopp who has re-energised certain players and possibly the group, and you've got a beleaguered Chelsea so yeah, bring it on. I read this morning that Lucas had more passes than Ramires and Mikel combined. It didn't surprise me. I can't remember Mikel even playing bar one challenge.

And then they scored. I hadn't planned for that. I didn't think the worse, but I was now hoping a bit for a 1-1. It was a must not lose game, and it was almost, a must win game for me. I'll come clean, it was a must win. Bloody difficult place to go for what was a must win, but it was wasn't it? Search inside yourself Luke - it was. BUT - OK... take 1-1 now? I would have done. Thankfully Klopp is not made of my spineless attitude, and it was the substitution of Milner which gladdened my heart later on.

Heading into half time, and still no real goal threat, bar the occasional dalliance. We were however playing some football for good long periods. Nothing breathtaking, nothing that incisive, but we were authoritative nonetheless. The co-commentators comments were coming back to haunt me. Benteke on for the 2nd half I wondered. Would that be showing cards too early the other side of me asked. Does that say we need something different, when perhaps we don't? Is this good enough to continue with for another 15/20? I thought so. Then bang. 1-1.

I scared my 5 year old shitless. I'll have that picture of his face in my head till I die. Which isn't far away. More horrified than the subject of Edvards Munch's 'Scream'. Hands clasped to ears, the shock of looming death in his eyes. He was paralysed. Why is Dad jumping around the room like this and punching the air like a man possessed? I swung him round the room by his ankles.

So no changes at half time. It was only later that I learned the ref maybe went overboard on the injury time, but as a constant thing in my life regarding injury time, I never thought for one moment that the ref would suddenly blow - I never thought, hurry up, he'll blow in a minute! What a sweet sweet goal for our little magician.


[Day 2 of writing this - I have only had a few minutes this week being able to write on a computer].


The second half was devoid of my sons cousin. I was quite glad of that.

It's a few days after now, and the seas have calmed. Yeah, we beat Chelsea, so what? However, I keep coming back to Skrtels glare. Why did I love it when our centre back faced up to Costa when he could have probably got him sent off? Down to ten men, happy days, let's run them ragged. Why? Not for one minute was Skrtel 'intimidated' by Costa. If he was, he rolls around as many others do when a challenge comes in. Some of course roll around as they've been clattered, because he plays it hard, and plays fine lines. But Skrtel wasn't in that mindset - he was going to enjoy this, and that glare said, 'yeah, don't worry sunshine, I'm up for it - see you next game yeah?' . I dunno - champagne moment for me. Yeah I'll have a bit of that in defence please - loads of that.

And then, we see Klopp entering into a discussion with a member of Chelsea's coaching staff. Think I'm right in saying it was coaching staff and not a fan. Loved the pause and the turn toward him from Klopp. Oh yes. Yeah... loads of that please. Rafa would have waved him down, nodded, smiled, turned towards his team again. Would have loved that. Klopp is the opposite. Not afraid of a word is he? Love that.

And then there was the substitution of Milner. Now I read he's not popular in certain elements of social meedja. That right? Don't understand that. I understand the desire for more penetration from midfield, more ziggy zag midfield play, a bit more end product, less set pieces etc - I get all that, but to take off Milner instead of Lallana who was having a so-so game if I was being generous, said much. Don't think there was much between them, but to leave Lallana on who can open up things, and to take Milner off who can shore up things in a game that you're drawing away to Chelsea said ALOT to me. Loved that. Much to love to be fair. I hate the phrase 'to be fair', but it suits here.

[elbow]

Re: Costa and Skrtel. I think Hendo laid down the blueprint on how to deal with that shithouse last season. Didn't get riled, didn't react or roll around, etc. Just gave him a look that said, "I've got you clocked dickhead."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7R7UCUTpHN4