Author Topic: Lucas in Brazil Squad  (Read 959442 times)

Re: Lucas in Brazil Squad
« Reply #7920 on: March 26, 2011, 03:21:02 pm »
Arsenal's methods don't work. They've not been succesful for a while now. They had different players and Wenger had a different approach when they won those trophies. Do you see anyone outside of Arsenal hurrying to employ their methods?

Btw, employing players who are technically adept is not unique to Arsenal/Wenger- they didn't invent football.
I never said anything about Arsenal's system, I talked about signing players with technical ability to improve the way the team plays so if one player is not available the rest can adapt. Be it young players or experience players they need to be good on the ball or else what you get is hoof ball

Offline fowlermagic

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Re: Lucas in Brazil Squad
« Reply #7921 on: March 26, 2011, 03:26:08 pm »
Really dont get the idea that we need a similar player like Lucas alonside him to get the best out of him. Does that imply the likes of SG or Meireles dont have the quality / ball playing skills to pass & move and get the best of Lucas? Cmon pull the other one

Or a defensive type to allow Lucas to push forward so he can dictate the play 20 yards outside the oppositions box. He apparently has the ability to vecome a Scholestype for us so although Lucas has scored approx one goal for us in 100 appearances he has the ability to score 10 plus goals a year for us like that red headed mullet. I must be still drunk if I believe that as Lucas does not have the poise in front of goal I would like to see from an attacking CM.


Lastly we need a ball playing CB so again he can push forward......Agger is there for that and we also have attacking full backs who should allow our CM to push forward more often. The possible issue lies more with CM than it does in CB or full backs although better width on the left would definitely help. Add a world class left back and see how Lucas fares but also we need more depth in CM so looking to see if we can get a more mobile Alonso type, adds badly needed quality / competition  for all. If Lucas is good enough he will raise his game again like he did this year and add that range of passing we have missed since Alonso left. 
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Re: Lucas in Brazil Squad
« Reply #7922 on: March 26, 2011, 03:31:11 pm »
I never said anything about Arsenal's system, I talked about signing players with technical ability to improve the way the team plays so if one player is not available the rest can adapt. Be it young players or experience players they need to be good on the ball or else what you get is hoof ball
I agree with that at least.
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Re: Lucas in Brazil Squad
« Reply #7923 on: March 26, 2011, 04:22:54 pm »
Really dont get the idea that we need a similar player like Lucas alonside him to get the best out of him. Does that imply the likes of SG or Meireles dont have the quality / ball playing skills to pass & move and get the best of Lucas? Cmon pull the other one

Or a defensive type to allow Lucas to push forward so he can dictate the play 20 yards outside the oppositions box. He apparently has the ability to vecome a Scholestype for us so although Lucas has scored approx one goal for us in 100 appearances he has the ability to score 10 plus goals a year for us like that red headed mullet. I must be still drunk if I believe that as Lucas does not have the poise in front of goal I would like to see from an attacking CM.

Lastly we need a ball playing CB so again he can push forward......Agger is there for that and we also have attacking full backs who should allow our CM to push forward more often. The possible issue lies more with CM than it does in CB or full backs although better width on the left would definitely help. Add a world class left back and see how Lucas fares but also we need more depth in CM so looking to see if we can get a more mobile Alonso type, adds badly needed quality / competition  for all. If Lucas is good enough he will raise his game again like he did this year and add that range of passing we have missed since Alonso left. 

A determined effort to misunderstand the points made. For the kind of player Lucas needs alongside him, see the 3rd goal against Wolves for an example of the qualities needed.

And as for the Scholes strawman.
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Re: Lucas in Brazil Squad
« Reply #7924 on: March 26, 2011, 04:40:04 pm »
Lucas Leiva wants to commit his future to Liverpool and bring Champions League football back to Anfield

Brazilian also hits back at criticism he received in his early days for the Reds and insists expectations were too high

Lucas Leiva has committed his future to Liverpool and hopes to extend his contract with the Merseysiders which expires next year.

The midfielder also wants to re-establish the club in the top four of the Premier League and bring back the glory days of 2005 when the Reds claimed the Champions League.

"I have no reasons to go and I hope the club see things the same," he told The Guardian.

"It would be fantastic to play for Liverpool in the Champions League again and I don't see why we can't return.

"We have a squad that is united in its will and desire to return this club to where it belongs."

The Brazilian struggled to adapt to the Premier League when he initially moved from Gremio in 2007 and faced much criticism from the Liverpool faithful, which he felt was unfair.

Lucas believes the fans' expectations of him were heightened due to the country of his birth and the fact that the club had been in two Champions League finals in three seasons.

"Things were not looking good and some supporters were obviously not happy," he said on early life at Anfield. "I still think people need to see the bigger picture.

"The move to Liverpool represented a change of country, language and there was also that I was only 20 and arriving at the club in one of the most demanding leagues in the world.

"Also, few people seemed to remember Liverpool had a group of players that had made two of the last three Champions League finals. It would have been impossible to just parachute in.

"Maybe the supporters thought a Brazilian midfielder would do just magic."

http://www.liverpoolfcnews.net/lucas-leiva-wants-to-commit-his-future-to-liverpool-and-bring-champions-league-football-back-to-anfield/link/53670/
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Re: Lucas in Brazil Squad
« Reply #7925 on: March 26, 2011, 04:44:47 pm »
A determined effort to misunderstand the points made. For the kind of player Lucas needs alongside him, see the 3rd goal against Wolves for an example of the qualities needed.

And as for the Scholes strawman.

Sorry man but not sure where you get that as I browsed the last couple of pages and saw cries for various types to get the best out of Lucas. Even yourself stated we required a midfield of all rounder types to defend and keep the ball moving so you don’t rely on one player like Alonso I guess.

Then in next post you go from all rounded CMs who should be good in defense as well as attack to saying  a Masch-Lucas combo would have been perfect. They were there for defensive purposes only while the front 6 take the ball of them and create.  That set up last year sucked to be honest and the type of ball the front 6 were getting from CM was a lot more static than the ones we were getting from Alonso who is a much better example of an all rounded CM than Lucas, ie he can tackle with the best of them and also create as well. His one issue was his true lack of pace but made up for it with his quickness of mind I guess

PS - I was not the one that brought up the Scholes example and you can track back to see who was clutching at straws there.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2011, 05:00:02 pm by fowlermagic »
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Re: Lucas in Brazil Squad
« Reply #7926 on: March 26, 2011, 05:40:53 pm »
They have in the last 10 years
Your argument seems to be that arsenal have been more successful with their technical players than rafa was with his type of players.  That's not true is it?
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Re: Lucas in Brazil Squad
« Reply #7927 on: March 26, 2011, 06:06:01 pm »
Sorry man but not sure where you get that as I browsed the last couple of pages and saw cries for various types to get the best out of Lucas. Even yourself stated we required a midfield of all rounder types to defend and keep the ball moving so you don’t rely on one player like Alonso I guess.

Then in next post you go from all rounded CMs who should be good in defense as well as attack to saying  a Masch-Lucas combo would have been perfect. They were there for defensive purposes only while the front 6 take the ball of them and create.  That set up last year sucked to be honest and the type of ball the front 6 were getting from CM was a lot more static than the ones we were getting from Alonso who is a much better example of an all rounded CM than Lucas, ie he can tackle with the best of them and also create as well. His one issue was his true lack of pace but made up for it with his quickness of mind I guess

PS - I was not the one that brought up the Scholes example and you can track back to see who was clutching at straws there.

In the first case, I was describing what the team would ideally consist of. If I could shape it myself, this is what I would have, players who can do a bit of everything. I've had thoughts about this before, but I fully came to this conclusion after watching the compartmentalised Liverpool, with all the highly specialised players, ponderously poke around post-Alonso. Whenever I say the team shoud be built around Lucas, this is what I mean. If players can't take on a bit of responsibility in everything, but instead expect to do just their specialist bit then leave it to the next layer, they shoudln't be playing for Liverpool.

In the second case, I was trying to make sense of what Benitez was trying to do with the team, when I saw the potential of the Lucas-Mascherano combo. Say whatever you want about them, but they were highly effective at breaking things up in midfield so that little coordination could come through there. If an opponent's game relied on short passing through the midfield, they could reliably foul up their wheels. This was a potent weapon if there was a wish to turn towards another specialised game post-Alonso. It's not what I'd ideally like, which is the no-specialisation goal, but it could be effective in its own right, if the team was built around it.

I've just noticed that you point to Alonso as an example of a more well-rounded midfielder. Which rather misses the point. In all the criticisms I've made of Alonso, none of them especially involve the player himself, but more how other players relate to him. Drop Alonso into an already functioning team and he'll do well, as will the team. Build the team around him and, well, the results are evident. I keep hammering on about Alonso, not because of Alonso himself, but because of the other players.
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Re: Lucas in Brazil Squad
« Reply #7928 on: March 26, 2011, 06:08:05 pm »
Arsenal's methods don't work. They've not been succesful for a while now. They had different players and Wenger had a different approach when they won those trophies. Do you see anyone outside of Arsenal hurrying to employ their methods?

Btw, employing players who are technically adept is not unique to Arsenal/Wenger- they didn't invent football.

i think this discussion is more about midfielders...Arsenal's midfield was always good,but with shite defense and goalkeeper
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Re: Lucas in Brazil Squad
« Reply #7929 on: March 26, 2011, 06:13:29 pm »
i think this discussion is more about midfielders...Arsenal's midfield was always good,but with shite defense and goalkeeper

It could be argued that the defence looks so bad because it doesn't get enough protection from the midfield.

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Re: Lucas in Brazil Squad
« Reply #7930 on: March 26, 2011, 06:22:04 pm »
yea, its true. Maybe that is why I forgot the most obvious of all but I didn't see leivapool post in the last few pages so it slipped my mind.

Wow, I go skiing for a week and this thread becoems the discuss Leivapool thread.  Thanks guys  ;D

I'm trying to catch up with all the posts!
Rossiter absolutely bossed it tonight. Really believe he'll end up playing more games this season than Lucas.


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Re: Lucas in Brazil Squad
« Reply #7931 on: March 26, 2011, 06:42:43 pm »
Lucas Leiva wants to commit his future to Liverpool and bring Champions League football back to Anfield

Brazilian also hits back at criticism he received in his early days for the Reds and insists expectations were too high

Lucas Leiva has committed his future to Liverpool and hopes to extend his contract with the Merseysiders which expires next year.

The midfielder also wants to re-establish the club in the top four of the Premier League and bring back the glory days of 2005 when the Reds claimed the Champions League.

"I have no reasons to go and I hope the club see things the same," he told The Guardian.

"It would be fantastic to play for Liverpool in the Champions League again and I don't see why we can't return.

"We have a squad that is united in its will and desire to return this club to where it belongs."

The Brazilian struggled to adapt to the Premier League when he initially moved from Gremio in 2007 and faced much criticism from the Liverpool faithful, which he felt was unfair.

Lucas believes the fans' expectations of him were heightened due to the country of his birth and the fact that the club had been in two Champions League finals in three seasons.

"Things were not looking good and some supporters were obviously not happy," he said on early life at Anfield. "I still think people need to see the bigger picture.

"The move to Liverpool represented a change of country, language and there was also that I was only 20 and arriving at the club in one of the most demanding leagues in the world.

"Also, few people seemed to remember Liverpool had a group of players that had made two of the last three Champions League finals. It would have been impossible to just parachute in.

"Maybe the supporters thought a Brazilian midfielder would do just magic."

http://www.liverpoolfcnews.net/lucas-leiva-wants-to-commit-his-future-to-liverpool-and-bring-champions-league-football-back-to-anfield/link/53670/

This is the third or fourth article where Lucas has expressed his desire to stay and put the ball firmly in Comolli's court.  Sort his new contract sharpish Mr. Comolli!
Rossiter absolutely bossed it tonight. Really believe he'll end up playing more games this season than Lucas.


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Re: Lucas in Brazil Squad
« Reply #7932 on: March 26, 2011, 08:00:02 pm »
Well after asking the question in the photoshop thread i'll put it on here instead! (not sure why i did that by the way!)

Where does everyone put Lucas's transfer value at the moment?

Everyone seems to have an opinion on whether players are overpriced or not so it would be interesting to hear.

I went for £12mil!

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Re: Lucas in Brazil Squad
« Reply #7933 on: March 26, 2011, 08:01:59 pm »
Might be a bit much to others, but given his contribution to the team, I'd say at least £15 million.

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Re: Lucas in Brazil Squad
« Reply #7934 on: March 26, 2011, 09:14:53 pm »
Will the brasilian game be on the telly tomorrow?
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

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Re: Lucas in Brazil Squad
« Reply #7935 on: March 26, 2011, 09:20:07 pm »
Current Brazilian midfield international who has many many years still ahead of him, who is an important part of both his club and national teams? I would want £30million for him atleast!! Especially in this market where James Milner is worth £30million.

And fucking sort his contract Comolli I will be massively pissed off if he ends up going for a wank £12million because we took to long to sort his contract.
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Re: Lucas in Brazil Squad
« Reply #7936 on: March 26, 2011, 09:21:39 pm »
He isn't worth £30 million. Let's get some perspectivecplease. Nevis a talented player but not a 30 million quid player.
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Re: Lucas in Brazil Squad
« Reply #7937 on: March 26, 2011, 09:23:45 pm »
Will the brasilian game be on the telly tomorrow?
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Re: Lucas in Brazil Squad
« Reply #7938 on: March 26, 2011, 09:26:20 pm »
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

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Re: Lucas in Brazil Squad
« Reply #7939 on: March 26, 2011, 09:36:53 pm »
He isn't worth £30 million. Let's get some perspectivecplease. Nevis a talented player but not a 30 million quid player.
No one's worth 30m MM, but you've got to look at the current climate, not what players are actually worth. Oddly, for the question of what we think he's worth, if he signs a new contract then i'd say 20m because i'm taking off 10m for him not being english ;D

Really, we still haven't seen him anywhere near his best for us yet, because he still hasn't had the right midfield partner for him. Meireles could be that partner, but we haven't seen the partnership enough this season to truly tell, but when all 3 of Gerrard, Meireles and Lucas are fit and on form, that's a very formidable midfield that can pass, move, create and score.
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Re: Lucas in Brazil Squad
« Reply #7940 on: March 26, 2011, 09:36:56 pm »
why are you talking about his price...are we going to sell him?
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Re: Lucas in Brazil Squad
« Reply #7941 on: March 26, 2011, 09:42:53 pm »
How come Aquilani wasn't in the squad today?

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Re: Lucas in Brazil Squad
« Reply #7942 on: March 26, 2011, 11:17:48 pm »

Lucas Leiva understands he is finally accepted at Liverpool

The Brazilian midfielder admits his early days on Merseyside were tough but he is blossoming under Kenny Dalglish



After more than three years on Merseyside, Lucas Leiva still struggles with the local accent, but understands it well enough to work out that Liverpool's supporters are now singing his name without irony. But although his relationship with the fans at Anfield has improved immeasurably, the Brazilian acknowledges that his every move will be scrutinised each time he steps on the pitch. It is a familiar feeling.

"Playing for Liverpool brings a similar kind of pressure to when I represent my country," Lucas says. "Both sets of fans have a very low tolerance level of defeat and will not hesitate to demand more from the team. Playing for Liverpool is like being watched by Brazilians!"

The 24-year-old midfielder should know, having featured in each of his country's last five games since being called up by the new coach Mano Menezes, under whom he played at Gremio. Alongside Chelsea's Ramires, Lucas has formed a solid midfield partnership that, barring a late injury, should start Sunday's friendly against Scotland at the Emirates.

Nonetheless, Lucas reveals that he had to convince Menezes he would fit into his plans. Since taking over from Dunga after Brazil's dismal World Cup quarter-final defeat by Holland last summer, Menezes has introduced a more traditional attacking game while Lucas has been deployed in a more defensive role by Liverpool than he was at Gremio. "In Gremio I had carte blanche to go forward and participate more in the attacking plays. But things had to change when I arrived in Liverpool, where I am used much more as a holding midfielder. That transition took time and made settling in even more challenging. It was necessary to prove to Mano that I could still be useful."

Indeed, Lucas partly attributes his struggles to win over the fans and his early lacklustre performances at Anfield to being asked to change his game by the then manager Rafael Benítez when he arrived in 2007. The Brazilian rarely got a glimpse in the first team and even created problems for the club indirectly – in Brazil's 3-0 defeat by Argentina in the 2008 Olympic semi-finals he earned a red card in a dangerous tackle that also injured his club team-mate Javier Mascherano.

"Things were not looking good and some supporters were obviously not happy," he says. "I still think people needed to see the bigger picture. The move to Liverpool represented a change of country, language and there was also the not so small detail that I was only 20 and arriving at a traditional club in one of the most demanding leagues in the world. Also, few people seemed to remember Liverpool had a group of players that had made two of the last three Champions League finals. It would have been impossible to just parachute in. Maybe the supporters thought a Brazilian midfielder would do magic.''

His frustration and anxieties were alleviated by a combination of long conversations with his parents back home and the support of Benítez, who publicly backed him while privately advising Lucas to keep his head down and work harder. Lucas speaks fondly of the role the Spaniard played in rebuilding his confidence and it is no surprise that Benítez's departure last summer was a huge blow, not least because the Brazilian thought the club would sell him at the first opportunity.

"How could I blame Liverpool [if they had]? At that point I had not had a sequence of games long enough for people to see what I was all about. I had the feeling they were not counting on me for the new era. But at the end the club and I reached common ground. I was happy because nobody would want to leave a club as big as Liverpool without a true chance to show their abilities."

Not that there was any immediate chance for Lucas to do so. The arrival of Roy Hodgson in Benítez's stead was followed by a collective dip in form that resulted in Liverpool going out of the Carling Cup and into the bottom three in the Premier League. Reports indicated the players had lost faith in the manager. Lucas, however, fervently denies any mutiny contributed to Hodgson's entry in the history books as Liverpool's shortest-serving manager.

"We lost Rafa and until the pre-season there was not a substitute," he says. "Roy simply brought a philosophy that did not work with the team at that time and this is not the first or last time it will happen. This rumour about us not working hard enough is nonsense. And so was the questioning of Roy's managerial capabilities. He did a great job at Fulham and now is doing well at West Brom."

Hodgson's departure at the start of this year brought the return of an Anfield legend under whom Lucas, and Liverpool, have prospered. The midfielder had met Kenny Dalglish in his ambassadorial role at the club and the manager had also featured heavily in Lucas's crash course in Liverpudlian culture when his move to Merseyside was finalised. Along with piles of Beatles CDs, Lucas devoured DVD anthologies of Liverpool FC goals. A good bunch were scored by his now-manager.

I could see that Dalglish was unbelievable as a player, but he has also made an impression on me as a manager. The world is full of great players flunking as managers. But Dalglish has rescued our confidence and at the same time he has helped us think a bit better."

Dalglish and his assistant manager Steve Clarke have masterminded a change which Lucas says was most evident in the team's first-half display in the 3-1 defeat of Manchester United this month. "During the week of the game, Dalglish talked about the possible United line-ups and made sure we understood how important it would be for us to give them some of their own medicine. He went on and on about suffocating them in midfield. We had a great afternoon doing what he said. His mantra is: make it simple and work together."

Impressive enough for Lucas to forgive his Scottish manager's banter in regards to the London friendly. In the last few weeks, Dalglish has constantly told his player that Scotland will finally break their duck against Brazil in their 10th meeting. After a promising start under Menezes, with victories over the US, Iran and Ukraine, Brazil stumbled against Argentina and France. Winning at the Emirates is essential to keep the fans on board.

"It's a new era and the team is still gelling, for a lot of players who were around in the last World Cup have departed," says Lucas. "We lost both games 1-0, with Argentina scoring in the 90th minute and against France we played almost 60 minutes with 10 men. Scotland will be desperate to surprise us which makes our responsibility to ensure they do not even greater."

When Lucas returns to his club, he will have more on his mind than mulling over the aftermath of the game with Dalglish. With his club contract ending in 2012, Lucas is hoping to re-open talks over an extension: He wants to stay and has even joked that would like to see his newborn son Pedro Lucas speaking English with a Scouse twang. But he is still waiting for the club's move.

"I have no reasons to go and I hope the club see things the same. It would be fantastic to play for Liverpool in the Champions League again and I don't see why we can't return.

"We have a squad that is united in its will and desire to return this club to where it belongs."



http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/mar/26/lucas-leiva-brazil-liverpool
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Re: Lucas in Brazil Squad
« Reply #7943 on: March 26, 2011, 11:21:00 pm »
For me his value is 20m but that is taking into account future potential. I think he could become a top class midfielder so I would be livid if he was sold for 10 or 15m.

But Fuck this talk, he's getting a new contract in the summer.
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Re: Lucas in Brazil Squad
« Reply #7944 on: March 26, 2011, 11:23:13 pm »
Cracking interview, seems like he really knows what it means to play for Liverpool FC. Really bothers me that we still haven't sorted out a contract when he clearly wants to be here.

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Re: Lucas in Brazil Squad
« Reply #7945 on: March 26, 2011, 11:39:41 pm »
Kenny must be losing it in his old age if even a Brazilian can understand what he's saying clearly now.
How come Aquilani wasn't in the squad today?

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Re: Lucas in Brazil Squad
« Reply #7946 on: March 27, 2011, 12:19:37 am »
I love this guy.

Offline mulhergremista

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Re: Lucas in Brazil Squad
« Reply #7947 on: March 27, 2011, 02:29:00 am »
Just a reminder: Lucas is opening, confirmed officially

The opening team, confirmed by Mano is: Julio Cezar, Dani Alvez, Lucio, Thiago Silva, Andre Santos (After Marcelo got injured again)Lucas, Jadson (shahtar Donjeck) Elano, Neimar, Leonardo Damiao (from Inter Porto Alegre, called afer Pato and Nilmar got injured again)

Sandro and David Luis will be probably on the bench, same as Maicon and Luisao(Benfica), and maybe the new talent Lucas (in the twitter has Lucas rm 37 or something like that)  Dont mix  this Lucas which I called the 2nd Lucas, with the 3rd Lucas which the Chelsea just bought, he is in the sub-17 championship of south America

Some Lucas epidemy in Brazil lately. Both the 3rd and the 2nd Lucas (That was in the sub 20 champ ) are revealed in the base categories of SP.

  Lucas2 does not want to leave SP yet (Got some brains) while Lucas 3 is already sold. Crazy house..

Lucas2 is now a standard player of the professional team of SP, they use him now and were complaining that he was with the NT and not helping them in the derbi match against Corinthians this evening.  DO not worry forv them, they have one of the deepest team in Brazil, and Luis Fabiano is joining them too.  Rivaldo is playing there , still active at (almost) 39

FORGET THEM 2 LUCASES, I want to wish our Lucas No. 1 a successful game against the scotts, It will not be an easy task against the tough game of the latters.  Let us hope he does well and returns without injury, with the grace of the Lord and good ref.

Lucas shares a room in the Dorchester Hotel with Jonas, another ex Gremio player, who is actually playing in Valencia
« Last Edit: March 27, 2011, 02:43:00 am by mulhergremista »

Offline nick_8589

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Re: Lucas in Brazil Squad
« Reply #7948 on: March 27, 2011, 02:30:46 am »
Cracking interview, seems like he really knows what it means to play for Liverpool FC. Really bothers me that we still haven't sorted out a contract when he clearly wants to be here.

It's nice to see one of our players say they want to play for Liverpool in the CL, instead of just wanting CL football.

Offline penga

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Re: Lucas in Brazil Squad
« Reply #7949 on: March 27, 2011, 02:35:35 am »
The thing about the lack of movement is that it was there - Alonso's ability eant that we were able to mask our problems with it. When he left, we had no one who could ditate the game and find a player like he could which meant our limitations were exposed. As for his goals, that's still not a lot and how many were penalties or freekicks (The one in Europe was, , one against Newcastle in the league was and the goal against Hull was a rebound from a free kick which Alonso took himself)? Lucas doesn't need to score or assist to have an impact on the game just like Alonso didn't. And the reason it doesn't happen enough is because Lucas, like Alonso (particularly in his final few years) plays deeper and doesn't have Alonso's passing range. That's what we missed last season but playing him further forward would mean that he'd be able to utilise his ability on and off the ball in an attacking sense - and he does have it.
  Alonso can't pick out always pick out 50 yard passes without movement u know, someone needs to make a run into space otherwise they will usually be marked. I agree if u play as a deep midfielder u do not need as many goals and assists but it is clear Alonso can influence the game much more than Lucas.

Lucas is a pass and move player and him playing further ahead of where he does right now would demonstrate that more than it already has done so. Aquilani was another quality attacking player added to the team so when he played we obviously looked better. The best move in that game started from Lucas playing a 10-15 yard pass cutting out 2 of the opposition players - if he was higher up, he would have been involved in that move but what it does show is a) the benefit of him playing that deep but also b) his ability to play a pass - again he could do more damage to the opposition if he were deployed further up the pitch. In fact, it wouldn't make us more defensive at all (how?) but give us more attacking impetus - something which would benfit the likes of Aquilani, Suarez and Gerrard. Really don't agree with you about his qualities here - he really is a pass and move player (I genuinely can;'t see why some people can't see that) and we could use him more in an attacking sense if we want to play a more progressive type of football.
You are making Lucas out as something he simply isn't. He is not dynamic nor a pass and move champion and he did not show this last season when he played the role of CM. He was basically a static holding midfielder (maybe part of his mindset, maybe part Rafa's tactics) with limited ability to influence the game with the ball, not a dynamo who runs all over the pitch passing and moving and creating chances like u suggest. He also lacks mobility and ability or confidence to carry the ball on the dribble. To be dynamic u need mobility and make driving incisive runs like Meireles, Gerrard, Aquilani - that is why these guys make things happen.

As for that move in the video, you do realise u are trying to amp up a simple 10 yard forward pass that no1 would miss...and the move would never have been possible without Aquilani's awareness and movement - could u really imagine Lucas doing what Aquilani did there? really? Also Lucas is in fact playing in the base of the midfield as DM there and in the match, it is the simple things he does well and it should stay that way. Lucas is a good pass an move player in the position he currently plays because he is always looking to make himself available for pass but if you put him up higher you need more ability and movement than Lucas provides to do that. Aquilani runs all over the pitch to create movement, Meireles as we've seen can make several smart driving runs into the box that are hard to track and also link up with good movement too and so forth. Lucas did not show this ability, simple as that. It would be a good idea however to move him further forward in general as others have suggested in his current position and play a higher defensive line (only possible with Skrtel and Agger) where he can sit in a good zone in between the box and centre circle and be the outlet for any passes coming back and then use his passing to recycle the play or spread the ball.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2011, 02:42:47 am by penga »

Offline Ambrosia

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Re: Lucas in Brazil Squad
« Reply #7950 on: March 27, 2011, 03:07:53 am »
Cracking interview, seems like he really knows what it means to play for Liverpool FC. Really bothers me that we still haven't sorted out a contract when he clearly wants to be here.
I just don't get it either. Hope we're not taking him for granted. Wouldn't blame him if he decides to move on.

Offline Discipline

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Re: Lucas in Brazil Squad
« Reply #7951 on: March 27, 2011, 09:41:42 am »
New contract. NOW!!!!
Hating people because of their color is wrong. And it doesn't matter which color does the hating. It's just plain wrong.

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Offline Hazell

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Re: Lucas in Brazil Squad
« Reply #7952 on: March 27, 2011, 09:56:03 am »
  Alonso can't pick out always pick out 50 yard passes without movement u know, someone needs to make a run into space otherwise they will usually be marked. I agree if u play as a deep midfielder u do not need as many goals and assists but it is clear Alonso can influence the game much more than Lucas.

Of course Alonso can't always pick out always pick out 50 yard passes without movement, he just finds it easier given his qualities. Alonso from a deeper role can influence the game more than Lucas which is why I'd like to see Lucas slightly more advanced.

You are making Lucas out as something he simply isn't. He is not dynamic nor a pass and move champion and he did not show this last season when he played the role of CM. He was basically a static holding midfielder (maybe part of his mindset, maybe part Rafa's tactics) with limited ability to influence the game with the ball, not a dynamo who runs all over the pitch passing and moving and creating chances like u suggest. He also lacks mobility and ability or confidence to carry the ball on the dribble. To be dynamic u need mobility and make driving incisive runs like Meireles, Gerrard, Aquilani - that is why these guys make things happen.

Wow. We seem to be watching 2 completely different players. I've never said he's done it completely for us, I've said he's slightly been limited from doing so but has shown he has the ability to do so and I'd want that to come to the fore more often as it would benefit us in an atacking sense. All those things you've described Lucas can do also.

As for that move in the video, you do realise u are trying to amp up a simple 10 yard forward pass that no1 would miss...and the move would never have been possible without Aquilani's awareness and movement - could u really imagine Lucas doing what Aquilani did there? really? Also Lucas is in fact playing in the base of the midfield as DM there and in the match, it is the simple things he does well and it should stay that way. Lucas is a good pass an move player in the position he currently plays because he is always looking to make himself available for pass but if you put him up higher you need more ability and movement than Lucas provides to do that. Aquilani runs all over the pitch to create movement, Meireles as we've seen can make several smart driving runs into the box that are hard to track and also link up with good movement too and so forth. Lucas did not show this ability, simple as that. It would be a good idea however to move him further forward in general as others have suggested in his current position and play a higher defensive line (only possible with Skrtel and Agger) where he can sit in a good zone in between the box and centre circle and be the outlet for any passes coming back and then use his passing to recycle the play or spread the ball.

That simple 10 yard pass is unfair as it did what it needed and got the attack going. He's played plenty of balls that cut out the opposition and create chances for us. I actually disagree with virtually everything you've written about Lucas there except what he brings to the role he presently occupies. No point repeating what I've already said before because you've countered it with basically 'he can't do what you say he can'. I'll just say he has shown he can do it (Tottenham, Blackburn, Atletico, Stoke, Bolton and Newcastle immediately spring to mind) and using Aquilani or Meireles to show he can't doesn't make any sense as they've played in a different position than Lucas for us.
We have to change from doubter to believer. Now.

Offline JovaJova

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Re: Lucas in Brazil Squad
« Reply #7953 on: March 27, 2011, 09:57:16 am »
Current Brazilian midfield international who has many many years still ahead of him, who is an important part of both his club and national teams? I would want £30million for him atleast!! Especially in this market where James Milner is worth £30million.

And fucking sort his contract Comolli I will be massively pissed off if he ends up going for a wank £12million because we took to long to sort his contract.

Man City are not the market

James Milner (who I don't rate much) had also just won young player of the year and has an attacking side to his game and flexibility that Lucas doesn't have which ramps up the price tag. Then you have the additional £10m for simply being English.

I want the new contract offered for Lucas because he has proven to be a reliable squad member and the open market value we could fetch for him (£10m if we are lucky) wouldn't neccesarily enable us to be certain of getting a better replacement. We do need someone to challenge him though and stop the complacency he has been showing the past month from setting in too often.

Our management wouldn't be crazy enough to let the contract run out for a guy who is in demand and has pretty much started every game for the past two years for us.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2011, 10:03:06 am by JovaJova »
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Offline mulhergremista

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Re: Lucas in Brazil Squad
« Reply #7954 on: March 27, 2011, 10:27:14 am »
OMG we got Howard Webb, is it a conspiracy against Brazil?  Do Scotland has Mancs players, so they can get away with murder?

Can't get rid of him, even in Brazil game :no

The line ref: Steve Child  & Adam Watts

Now God has to be Brazilian :o

Heaven help us all :-[





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Re: Lucas in Brazil Squad
« Reply #7955 on: March 27, 2011, 10:30:51 am »
Yeah. Cos Brazil, of course, are gonna get nothing from Howard Webb when facing Scotland in London.

It's a friendly m'dear. When we hammer you, it won't be thanks to the ref. ;D

Offline steveeastend

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Re: Lucas in Brazil Squad
« Reply #7956 on: March 27, 2011, 11:17:57 am »
Both teams will need a lot of help than... ;)
One thing does need to be said: in the post-Benitez era, there was media-led clamour (but also some politicking going on at the club) to make the club more English; the idea being that the club had lost the very essence of what it means to be ‘Liverpool’. Guillem Ballague 18/11/10

Offline Hazell

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Re: Lucas in Brazil Squad
« Reply #7957 on: March 27, 2011, 11:25:49 am »
OMG we got Howard Webb, is it a conspiracy against Brazil?  Do Scotland has Mancs players, so they can get away with murder?

Can't get rid of him, even in Brazil game :no

The line ref: Steve Child  & Adam Watts

Now God has to be Brazilian :o

Heaven help us all :-[

I wouldn't worry about it. The last time he reffed a match for you, 'Brazil scored an English goal' according to Clive Tyldesley.
We have to change from doubter to believer. Now.

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Re: Lucas in Brazil Squad
« Reply #7958 on: March 27, 2011, 12:18:03 pm »
sammatterface Sam Matterface
by AmirahAzhar14
#BRAZIL Julio Cesar; Alves, Lucio, Thiago Silva, Andre Santos; Jadson, Lucas, Ramires, Elano; Damiao, Neymar - Marcelo failed fitness test
Don't blame me I voted for Jeremy Corbyn!!

Miss you Tracy more and more every day xxx

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Offline MaschHead

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Re: Lucas in Brazil Squad
« Reply #7959 on: March 27, 2011, 12:23:15 pm »
sammatterface Sam Matterface
by AmirahAzhar14
#BRAZIL Julio Cesar; Alves, Lucio, Thiago Silva, Andre Santos; Jadson, Lucas, Ramires, Elano; Damiao, Neymar - Marcelo failed fitness test


What kind of players are Jadson and Damiao?