Topic: FA Cup: Wolves 2 v Liverpool 1 Jimenez ‘37 Neves ‘55 Origi ‘50

[Charlie Adams fried egg]

If we hit 90plus points and don't win the league, we cannot call this season a failure. Just like getting to the final last year was not a failure. We are improving and competing for the biggest prizes again. As we saw finals can be decided by a bit of luck, the same applies to title challenges. We have got to accept though that that landscape has changed, since Chelsea won the lottery it is more difficult to win a league.

As a club, what do we do if we come 2nd on 95 points? Sack the manager in favour of someone who promises to get an extra 3 points?

[Yorkykopite]

So until we win it, I can’t help but feel this way. I’m hoping if we do win it I’ll be more relaxed and positive going forwards.

That’d make a great song for the Kop.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Yeah I don’t like it either! I’ve nothing but failures in the league to go off. So until we win it, I can’t help but feel this way. I’m hoping if we do win it I’ll be more relaxed and positive going forwards.

The irony comes from the fact I’m disagreeing with mass defeatism/apathy towards the cups amongst our fans.

You're not half as clever as you think you are.

I think Klopp isn’t upset at being out.

And I think that you're an idiot to think that.

[Cheesehead]

I know that question wasn't put to me but....Not happy, but if it gave us the best chance to win league or champions league I'll take that everyday of the week. If we are in a title battle and still in champions league with more and more injuries happening sacking off the cups is the best move we can make.

If we were where Chelsea, Utd Arsenal are in the league then it's a different story. We are not city. They have 2 or even 3 top players in each position.

We have a priority list.

League
Champions league
Fa cup
League cup.

But I don't know what job you have but to meet priority number 1 until it's not possible we would sacrifice resource for the lower priorities.

I agree with this later in the season to an extent. We are only half way through the season now tho.

[stockdam]

so, let me get this straight:

We play a side with 9 changes, and lose a first class centre-half two minutes into the game against a near as damnit full strength and decent Wolves side.

Three of those changes are promising teenagers one of which is 16, the other 17. Three of the others have only played a handful of games this season, more likely only a few minutes. We had players returning to fitness from injury as well.

It was a side that had NEVER played together

We needed to make that many changes due to injury/illness and the need to plain rest others.

Yet with all that, people are still singling out individuals and sticking the pitchfork in saying they let everyone down/disgrace to the shirt/hanging's too good for 'em/run them out, blah, blah.

...........

Spot on. We played a makeshift team which hadn't played together. We were playing several players out of position and several were very young and playing for the first time at this level. It was obvious that most of the players were playing as individuals. Our forwards weren't offering themselves or moving, we had no midfield and our backs were two midfielders and one 16 year old (after Lovren went off).

There was little flow to our game and we struggled to get into the game until the 2nd half. Wolves weren't much better.

After the game, we see the same people with their agendas against certain "favourite" players. Somehow it was Moreno's fault or Mignolet's fault that we lost. The bottom line was that we fielded a team that was always going to struggle against a premier league team. You can hardly blame any individual person for the performance but that's what happens here when we lose.

However Sturridge, Origi, Shaq and Keita were disappointing but part of that could have been down to the players around them and the number of players who were playing out of position or who were new to this level. For me the most glaring problem was our lack of midfield and at times Keita was the only one who was playing there.

[James55]

If we hit 90plus points and don't win the league, we cannot call this season a failure. Just like getting to the final last year was not a failure. We are improving and competing for the biggest prizes again. As we saw finals can be decided by a bit of luck, the same applies to title challenges. We have got to accept though that that landscape has changed, since Chelsea won the lottery it is more difficult to win a league.

As a club, what do we do if we come 2nd on 95 points? Sack the manager in favour of someone who promises to get an extra 3 points?

I wouldn't be calling for klopp head if no silverware.. however if we don't end up with silverware it will be classed as a failure, finish 2nd on 90+. Points classed as successful not a hope.. how can 2nd be classed as successful .. we are meant be competing for trophies .which we haven't won since 2012.. we failed fa cup league cup Europe league and champion league final.. klopp needs silverware,we need silverware

[Cheesehead]

You're not half as clever as you think you are.




And I think that you're an idiot to think that.

I don’t think I’m clever at all. I’m actually very self-deprecating of myself.

Maybe I am an idiot. That’s my opinion tho and I think that’s been the case since he’s been here.

[thejbs]

Context is everything in looking at this result. 

Fans aren't celebrating being out, nor are they apathetic towards the FA Cup. If we were sixth in the league, I'd want us gunning for a FA cup.  If we were out of the CL and league contention, I'd want us gunning for the Europa League and FA Cup.

But we're not. We're trying to win the league against one of the most expensive and talented sides ever assembled and we're still in the Champions League.  Accumulated fatigue and injuries will be our biggest hurdle in winning either of these competitions and ergo the second string will (no, has to) play in the domestic cups.

Wolves away is a tough game this season with a full strength team so I'd reconciled myself to a cup exist if using the second string. And look at what our reward for a win probably would've been: a cold dark night in Stoke sandwiched between Palace and Leicester (who will have no FA Cup distraction) in the league.

City could well win 2 domestic cups, but to do so they'll have to play eight more games than us this season*, and that does take a toll on fatigue and injuries regardless of how good your side is.

Let's also think of the money, because while not romantic, it's important. Playing four more games in the FA Cup and winning it gets us less money than getting past Bayern will. It would take us to win over 10 FA cups to get the same money as you get from winning one CL - and there's no need to mention the prestige of one over the other. Last year we got over £72m for our CL run, this year's FA Cup winners will get around £6.5m (incidentally, the same amount we'll get for our next 4 games in the CL).

There's also the question of; if we don't play our youth and second string in the cup, when do they get to play? Our young players will have learned so much from the game last night, regardless of the result.

*CL not factored in.

[Cheesehead]

That’d make a great song for the Kop.

Haha!

I do think there’s loads who feel like me tho.

[NarutoReds]

Origi thumped a good goal tonight, but he's regressed terribly as an all-round player. He's like the anti-Mane. All of his power and pace, but makes a couple of pointless touches/rolls his studs over the ball, before rolling a 5 yard pass so slowly that the entire defence can have a team meeting before re-positioning.

Fuck sake!! Hahahha!!!!     
This deserves love.

[Andy82lfc]

Haha!

I do think there’s loads who feel like me tho.

Feel like what? That Klopp didn't care that we lost? That with a defeat comes mass negativity? We have such a massive opportunity this year, just wish everyone would chill the fuck out and stay positive behind the team to give us the best chance.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

I agree with this later in the season to an extent. We are only half way through the season now tho.

We're top of the league. Did you miss that or are you just not arsed?

[Cheesehead]

Feel like what? That Klopp didn't care that we lost? That with a defeat comes mass negativity? We have such a massive opportunity this year, just wish everyone would chill the fuck out and stay positive behind the team to give us the best chance.

No. It was about another post. About feeling pessimistic in the league as all’s I’ve known is failure in that.

[Charlie Adams fried egg]

I wouldn't be calling for klopp head if no silverware.. however if we don't end up with silverware it will be classed as a failure, finish 2nd on 90+. Points classed as successful not a hope.. how can 2nd be classed as successful .. we are meant be competing for trophies .which we haven't won since 2012.. we failed fa cup league cup Europe league and champion league final.. klopp needs silverware,we need silverware

It's that binary thinking again. I didn't say that it would necessarily be classed a successful, what I did say is that it cant be deemed a failure. How can it when we could potentially have watched the most successful league season ever in terms of wins and points, but missed out on the trophy to a side that by has increasingly been shown to flout financial rules?

I just don't believe we can judge performance without considering the external environment.

[Cheesehead]

We're top of the league. Did you miss that or are you just not arsed?

We are top with 17 games to go not 7.

[clinical]

We are top with 17 games to go not 7.

We're over half way. Again we're top after 21 games. Not 7 games.

See works both ways.

Anyway point is would I have liked us to win, yeah sure. Am i arsed we didn't? Not one bit. Much better than a draw. We have to pick our fights when competing with a team backed by a country. Probably need near 100 points to win the league.

[Shaved Crossbar]

Anybody think Milner made the wrong call when defending the first goal? Went central at first, correct decision. After that, when the ball is 30-35 yards out, I really think he should be doing more to get out to Jimenez/the ball. I know their lad is trying to block him but felt Milner could have done better.

[Cheesehead]

We're over half way. Again we're top after 21 games. Not 7 games.

See works both ways.

Anyway point is would I have liked us to win, yeah sure. Am i arsed we didn't? Not one bit. Much better than a draw. We have to pick our fights when competing with a team backed by a country. Probably need near 100 points to win the league.

That first line doesn’t work. That’s not the same.

I agree on needing 100 points.

[cissesbeard]

reminded me of one of those europa league games from a few years ago before Klopp - we are favourites to win the game but have made loads of changes and the team seems disjointed and never gets going.
going back years we dont seem to have the knack to be able to play a second string and win comfortably (i know this has mostly been from not being able to spend loads on squad depth) we need to go at a game full tilt if we want to win it.

[redmark]

Obviously that’s the same for everyone as regards to your first line!

Loads seem to be happy or not bothered about going out of the cup. I can never get on board with that.

I think people are brainwashed into thinking the cups don’t matter. The clubs have done that. It wasn’t always the case of fans not caring tho.

The bit about non English manager came about in response to a poster saying maybe no one cares anymore as most of the club(players mangers fans) are not English never mind scouse. I said we always did care and shouldn’t change, those coming to the club from afar should change their mentality towards domestic cups not the other way round.

Yeah, you're not reading what people are saying. Have fun.

[NarutoReds]

+ After crashed out of the FA Cup,
Liverpool boss irritated by Ian Abrahams’ question on whether they need to buy another centre-back in January

Jurgen Klopp rubbished suggestions made by talkSPORT’s Ian Abrahams that Liverpool may
consider signing a new centre-back in January.

The German, who spoke to Moose after the Reds’ 2-1 defeat at Wolves in the FA Cup, has
something of a defensive selection crisis ahead of their next game against Brighton on Saturday.

This is because Dejan Lovren went off injured early in the game meaning Virgil van Dijk is the
only out-and-out Liverpool centre-back who is fully fit.

It’s not clear what the extent of Lovren’s injury is but he could join fellow centre-backs Joe
Gomez and Joel Matip, who have been out since December, on the treatment table.

With this in mind, Moose asked whether Klopp would think about recruiting another centre-back
during the January transfer window.

And the Reds boss was almost in disbelief at this, saying: "The only country that asks a
question like this is England. Everything is sorted with buying players."

“We have four centre-halves. Three, maybe, two-and-a-half are injured so we’ll have to try
and come through in the moment."

“We need them back but you cannot buy a fifth centre-half and say ‘so you play two weeks
and after that the others come in’”.

- https://talksport.com/football/fa-cup/470200/jurgen-klopp-irritated-ian-abrahams-question-liverpool-centre-back-january/

[Cheesehead]

Yeah, you're not reading what people are saying. Have fun.

I am reading what they’re saying. They’re saying they are happy/not bothered about going out. I am.

I hope to thanks

[redk84]

I was disappointed with going out the cup yesterday but not getting all the emotion over this to be honest. Not this season anyway

We went out...ok....but as many have said before, during and after the match being out of it has a benefit to our league campaign which this season has shaped up very nicely so far

If we lose or draw to Brighton in some part due to the loss in the fa cup then it will be more annoying yes. But if we want to win the league we have to be able to react well to things like this

The league win will be a huge mental block lifted from this team, fanbase and any future teams so for just this one season we need to take whatever help we can get in doing that because of the position we have put ourselves in after an amazing run up until now

[Rush 82]

Anybody think Milner made the wrong call when defending the first goal? Went central at first, correct decision. After that, when the ball is 30-35 yards out, I really think he should be doing more to get out to Jimenez/the ball. I know their lad is trying to block him but felt Milner could have done better.

Milner was buggered by trying to look after Ki and Camacho

Real pity that Lovren got injured so early.

[clinical]

Anybody think Milner made the wrong call when defending the first goal? Went central at first, correct decision. After that, when the ball is 30-35 yards out, I really think he should be doing more to get out to Jimenez/the ball. I know their lad is trying to block him but felt Milner could have done better.

Milner wanted us to get knocked out 

[jdet90]

It's that binary thinking again. I didn't say that it would necessarily be classed a successful, what I did say is that it cant be deemed a failure. How can it when we could potentially have watched the most successful league season ever in terms of wins and points, but missed out on the trophy to a side that by has increasingly been shown to flout financial rules?

I just don't believe we can judge performance without considering the external environment.

Your posts are some of the only sensible one's.

I genuinely can't understand the 'Klopp needs silverware rhetoric'. This lad you quoted sounds like the fans of the other teams.
We were competing for almost nothing for a decade but apparently, we have some divine right to win silverware. As you've said, the external environment has gone so much tougher but Klopp has got us up there competing with less resources. That is success if we end up with a record points total, winning it or not.

Winning a FA cup would have been a lovely celebration for a few days and took some of the media heat off Klopp. Then a week later everyone would be back saying, but he needs to win the league. It should never have been the focus with our current position, he made the right call, didn't quite work, oh well.

[redmark]

Anybody think Milner made the wrong call when defending the first goal? Went central at first, correct decision. After that, when the ball is 30-35 yards out, I really think he should be doing more to get out to Jimenez/the ball. I know their lad is trying to block him but felt Milner could have done better.

There's a glance over his shoulder, when he's expecting Hoever to go to the ball (further away, but quicker and an angle to push the player wider), then realises he's 16, isn't going and tries to do so himself. Not blaming Milner (or Hoever) for that. Horrible ball from Moreno in the first place, poor touch by Milner, but all a result of general misshapen dysfunction at that point.

[slaphead]

I'm pissed off that we're out of the FA Cup because we're now down to 2 chances of Silverware this season. Winning things is what it call comes down to.
Luckily we're in a fantastic position to win the main one we all want.
Just like Thursday we were  the frame of the goal away from everything being different but its done now. Just hope come May we an look back and see last night as a positive thing. Right now for me it not, not at all.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Milner wanted us to get knocked out 

Poor lad must have been brainwashed.

[Rush 82]

I was disappointed with going out the cup yesterday but not getting all the emotion over this to be honest. Not this season anyway

We went out...ok....but as many have said before, during and after the match being out of it has a benefit to our league campaign which this season has shaped up very nicely so far

If we lose or draw to Brighton in some part due to the loss in the fa cup then it will be more annoying yes. But if we want to win the league we have to be able to react well to things like this

The league win will be a huge mental block lifted from this team, fanbase and any future teams so for just this one season we need to take whatever help we can get in doing that because of the position we have put ourselves in after an amazing run up until now

Agree with this.

Personally I'm happy to jib off the CL this season for the title - there will be doubles and trebles to follow once this core squad wins the big one.

[redmark]

I am reading what they’re saying. They’re saying they are happy/not bothered about going out. I am.

I hope to thanks

"I think people are brainwashed into thinking the cups don’t matter. The clubs have done that. It wasn’t always the case of fans not caring tho."

I've cared more about the league and Europe since about 1978, as a 9/10 year old before Sky, RAWK, 'football as a business', or foreign owners/managers/players who "didn't get" the cups. Who brainwashed me?

[Cheesehead]

I'm pissed off that we're out of the FA Cup because we're now down to 2 chances of Silverware this season. Winning things is what it call comes down to.
Luckily we're in a fantastic position to win the main one we all want.
Just like Thursday we were  the frame of the goal away from everything being different but its done now. Just hope come May we an look back and see last night as a positive thing. Right now for me it not, not at all.

This sums it up well for me.

[redmark]

Poor lad must have been brainwashed.

Though if there's all this brainwashing going on, Moreno's could do with a rinse.

[Cheesehead]

Poor lad must have been brainwashed.

He was in on it with Klopp. Sturridge too. Lovren didn’t really get injured either 

[Rush 82]

I'm pissed off that we're out of the FA Cup because we're now down to 2 chances of Silverware this season. Winning things is what it call comes down to.
Luckily we're in a fantastic position to win the main one we all want.
Just like Thursday we were  the frame of the goal away from everything being different but its done now. Just hope come May we an look back and see last night as a positive thing. Right now for me it not, not at all.

Couldn't give a shit about the FA Cup.

Wolves now have a nice confidence booster against City - they've now held or beaten all of the Top Six this season - you can bet that will motivate them even more.

[Cheesehead]

"I think people are brainwashed into thinking the cups don’t matter. The clubs have done that. It wasn’t always the case of fans not caring tho."

I've cared more about the league and Europe since about 1978, as a 9/10 year old before Sky, RAWK, 'football as a business', or foreign owners/managers/players who "didn't get" the cups. Who brainwashed me?

You were brainwashed washed by yourself! You are the original. You are ground zero! 

[thaddeus]

To give some context; Wolves starting XI had 153 league starts between them while ours (swapping Lovren for Hoever) had 43.  This being the same Wolves that beat Chelsea and drew with Man City.  It's not like we were knocked out by Newport County!

Some of the whining on here that we "must win a trophy" is so entitled.  To win any of the domestic trophies we have to overcome some combination of Man City, Spurs, Chelsea, Man Utd, Arsenal etc.  We're not PSG in France or Juve in Italy and on a difficulty scale it's not far off winning the Champions League!

If domestically Klopp wants to put all his eggs in one basket - giving us the best chance possible of winning the Premier League - then I'm all for it.  If City win all their remaining games and we drop four points then I'd be gutted but so be it.  It doesn't alter that this is a great team that provides great entertainment.

The result yesterday means we'll have 10 days to prepare for hosting Leicester - a potential banana skin as Man City found.  Leicester themselves will also have 9-10 days to prepare as they were beaten by Newport County.  A niggly trip to Shrewsbury or Stoke followed by a fresh Leicester the midweek after doesn't sound that great to me...

[Cheesehead]

To give some context; Wolves starting XI had 153 league starts between them while ours (swapping Lovren for Hoever) had 43.  This being the same Wolves that beat Chelsea and drew with Man City.  It's not like we were knocked out by Newport County!

Some of the whining on here that we "must win a trophy" is so entitled.  To win any of the domestic trophies we have to overcome some combination of Man City, Spurs, Chelsea, Man Utd, Arsenal etc.  We're not PSG in France or Juve in Italy and on a difficulty scale it's not far off winning the Champions League!

If domestically Klopp wants to put all his eggs in one basket - giving us the best chance possible of winning the Premier League - then I'm all for it.  If City win all their remaining games and we drop four points then I'd be gutted but so be it.  It doesn't alter that this is a great team that provides great entertainment.

The result yesterday means we'll have 10 days to prepare for hosting Leicester - a potential banana skin as Man City found.  Leicester themselves will also have 9-10 days to prepare as they were beaten by Newport County.  A niggly trip to Shrewsbury or Stoke followed by a fresh Leicester the midweek after doesn't sound that great to me...

Sometimes long breaks aren’t good for a team. They can lose their rythym. At the moment nothing is certain. I do trust Klopp I just hope he’s right.

[CallumLFC]

We've got a 10 day break before the 1st leg vs Bayern.

[Charlie Adams fried egg]

Your posts are some of the only sensible one's.

I genuinely can't understand the 'Klopp needs silverware rhetoric'. This lad you quoted sounds like the fans of the other teams.
We were competing for almost nothing for a decade but apparently, we have some divine right to win silverware. As you've said, the external environment has gone so much tougher but Klopp has got us up there competing with less resources. That is success if we end up with a record points total, winning it or not.

Winning a FA cup would have been a lovely celebration for a few days and took some of the media heat off Klopp. Then a week later everyone would be back saying, but he needs to win the league. It should never have been the focus with our current position, he made the right call, didn't quite work, oh well.

Very kind of you to say so.

And that's all it is - media heat and shite from opposing fans. I avoid lots of mainstream footy media, but to be fair the sensible ones aren't fully committed to the "he needs a trophy" line because they can see beyond any reasonable doubt that he's improved us.
Most opposition fans are "banter" merchants and usually clueless too. They like to say we're deluded and entitled, but most Liverpool fans I speak to are anything but entitled. We know better than anyone that we're entitled to fuck all. Oddly enough the fans that tend to call us entitled are often Utd, City, Chelsea fans that act a bit affronted that we have got back to being competitive, which in itself is a little bit.........entitled.