Author Topic: Thomas Cook  (Read 6017 times)

Offline Redsnappa

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Thomas Cook
« on: September 20, 2019, 03:33:43 pm »
If you're booking tickets/packages/hotels through these - or have done, be careful, they are in a bit of trouble ...




Thomas Cook could fall into administration this weekend unless the travel company finds £200m in extra funds needed to secure its future.

Banks, including RBS and Lloyds, insist the firm comes up with the new contingency funds in case it needs extra money during the winter months.

A collapse would leave 150,000 UK holidaymakers stranded and require a huge repatriation effort.

Sources insisted there were still "reasonable prospects" of a deal.

But they added that the coming 24 hours were crucial to the travel group's survival.

Currently there are 600,000 Thomas Cook customers on holiday, of which 150,000 to 160,000 are from the UK.


The troubled operator hoped to seal a rescue led by China's Fosun this week. But the creditor banks issued a last-minute demand that the travel company find an extra £200m.

Sources have confirmed that the Civil Aviation Authority is on standby with a repatriation contingency plan called Operation Matterhorn. The potential cost of bringing home passengers is put at about £600m.

The CAA said: "We are in regular contact with all large ATOL holders and constantly monitor company performance. We do not comment on the financial situation of the individual businesses we regulate."


Jacqui Cunningham and her partner Angus McNair are unsure whether they should pay the outstanding balance on their holiday
Teacher Jacqui Cunningham and her partner, train driver Angus McNair, from Brentwood, Essex, have booked a holiday to the Maldives with Thomas Cook for December. The luxury trip is to celebrate Ms Cunningham's recovery from cancer.

They have paid a deposit of £500 and the balance of £8,000 is due by midnight on Friday.

Thomas Cook is, of course, still operating. But their predicament underlines the anxiety many customers are feeling.

Ms Cunningham and Mr McNair called the customer service helpline and asked if they could delay paying the £8,000 until they know that the tour operator is not going to fall into administration. But they were told the deadline remains, or they would lose their £500 deposit.

"We were going to pay on debit card, but now I think we'll put it on the credit card if we go forward," Ms Cunningham told the BBC.

"We would like to go on our holiday, but we want to know that they'll sort out that £200m they're looking for."

Thomas Cook employs 22,000 staff, 9,000 of those in the UK. It serves 19 million customers a year in 16 different countries.

But Thomas Cook's financial difficulties have mounted over the past year, culminating with the agreement in August of a rescue deal led by its biggest shareholder Fosun, that would see the Chinese firm back refinancing of the 179-year-old British firm.

In July, Thomas Cook produced a business plan saying that it needed £900m in refinancing, up from a previous estimate of £150m. The £900m would come from Fosun, the group of creditors and some other investors.

The group of lenders then commissioned an independent investigation. Its financial advisers said Thomas Cook would require an additional £200m on top of the £900m already required, which would bring the total refinancing needed up to £1.1bn.

Thomas Cook succeeded in finding a backer to provide the additional £200m, but the BBC understands that the backer has now pulled out and the group of creditors will not come back to the table unless that additional funding is found.

A final vote on that deal was due to take place this week, but it has been delayed until next Friday in the face of the latest demand for extra standby funding.

Earlier this week, Thomas Cook said it was "focused on completing" the deal. It is believed to be negotiating with its banks, bondholders and Fosun in an attempt to keep the rescue on track.

In May, the operator reported a £1.5bn loss for the first half of the year. It has also issued three profit warnings over the past year and is struggling to reduce its debts.

It has blamed a series of problems for its profit warnings, including political unrest in holiday destinations such as Turkey, last summer's prolonged heatwave and customers delaying booking holidays because of Brexit.

What are your rights?

If you are on a package holiday you are covered by the Air Travel Organiser's Licence scheme (ATOL).

The scheme will pay for your accommodation abroad, although you may have to move to a different hotel or apartment.

ATOL will also pay to have you brought home if the airline is no longer operating.

If you have holiday booked in the future you will also be refunded by the scheme.

If you have booked a flight-only deal you will need to apply to your travel insurance company or credit card and debit card provider to seek a refund.

It has also suffered from competition from online travel agents and low-cost airlines.

The winter months can put a strain on travel companies' finances as typically there is less revenue coming in, while suppliers need to be paid for services provided over the high summer season.

Mark Burgess, chief investment officer of Columbia Threadneedle Investments, told the BBC that Thomas Cook's creditors were "being very careful" about extending lines of credit, because the firm was "in a precarious financial position".

"Companies don't go bust because they have too much debt - they go bust because they run out of cash," he added.

"Banks are managing their exposure very carefully, because the last thing they want to do is to have to write off loans to the company."

RBS said: "As one of a number of lenders, RBS has provided considerable support to Thomas Cook over many years and continues to work with all parties in order to try and find a resolution to the funding and liquidity shortfall at Thomas Cook."

Thomas Cook is one of the world's largest travel companies. It was founded in 1841 to operate temperance day trips. It now has annual sales of £9bn.

If the rescue deal goes ahead, it would be majority owned by Fosun, which is also a majority shareholder in Wolverhampton Wanderers Football Club and French resort operator Club Med.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49761464


Offline TeddyTime33

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Re: Thomas Cook
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2019, 03:42:20 pm »
All games saying sold out on their website, no idea if tickets would still be honoured

Offline Redsnappa

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Re: Thomas Cook
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2019, 03:58:47 pm »
All games saying sold out on their website, no idea if tickets would still be honoured

BBC again:

What about other services, such as sport packages?

Thomas Cook does run domestic ticket and hotel packages for sporting events.

It is unclear what would happen to those bookings if it collapsed, but as most people would not have any insurance cover for such a trip, a refund claim would probably have to be made to the provider of the credit or debit card used to pay.

Offline TeddyTime33

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Re: Thomas Cook
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2019, 04:12:16 pm »
BBC again:

What about other services, such as sport packages?

Thomas Cook does run domestic ticket and hotel packages for sporting events.

It is unclear what would happen to those bookings if it collapsed, but as most people would not have any insurance cover for such a trip, a refund claim would probably have to be made to the provider of the credit or debit card used to pay.
Interesting, sound like it would be up to club really, they could give tickets but hotels and other bits wouldn’t be apart of it

Offline Alan_X

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Re: Thomas Cook
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2019, 04:52:51 pm »
The Thomas Cook packages are for a limited area of the Main Stand.


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Offline Alf

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Re: Thomas Cook
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2019, 08:22:33 pm »
Thomas Cook were in trouble in 2013, I remember reading that they made an average of £8.50 profit per person on each package holiday. In a lot of cases they won't pay for hotels until 12 weeks before in the countries currency it's in, so it only takes a drop in the FX rate against the pound and they're up against it.

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Re: Thomas Cook
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2019, 08:33:28 pm »
I'm surprised it has taken this length of time to reach the mainstream press, in my most recent job I was responsible for searching companies as a possible target for our software and we looked at the top 500 in a sector and Thomas Cook were in there along with some other very big names who also have well documented financial issues.. I am surprised they are still here based on that research
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Offline RainbowFlick

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Re: Thomas Cook
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2019, 06:57:50 am »
YNWA.

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Re: Thomas Cook
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2019, 07:24:12 am »
Wow that's a big company gone. Lots of job losses and another high street store that's gonna remain closed or turn into a vape shop.

Wonder how much impact the weak pound had, another casualty of Brexit I imagine.
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Re: Thomas Cook
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2019, 08:28:32 am »
#LFC have told SSN: “Thomas Cook sells 360 hospitality packages for each of our home games at Anfield. We are currently assessing the impact of Thomas Cook ceasing trading and the impact for those supporters who have purchased packages from Thomas Cook...." (1/2)

"...Once we have those details from Thomas Cook we will update supporters.” (2/2)

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Offline Alan_X

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Re: Thomas Cook
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2019, 09:17:57 am »
360 per game. From some of the stories you’d have thought it was half the ground.

Regardless of anyone’s feelings about Thomas Cook as a company or the people who bought their hotel and ticket packages I hope they get sorted out. Amongst the bellends will be a lot of decent fans who were making a once in a lifetime pilgrimage to do something many of us take for granted. 
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Offline ScubaSteve

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Re: Thomas Cook
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2019, 09:32:37 am »
360 per game. From some of the stories you’d have thought it was half the ground.

Regardless of anyone’s feelings about Thomas Cook as a company or the people who bought their hotel and ticket packages I hope they get sorted out. Amongst the bellends will be a lot of decent fans who were making a once in a lifetime pilgrimage to do something many of us take for granted.

Yeah fingers crossed the fans who have already bought tickets will keep hold of them..which I’m sure they will

Offline RainbowFlick

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Re: Thomas Cook
« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2019, 10:03:44 am »
360 per game. From some of the stories you’d have thought it was half the ground.

Regardless of anyone’s feelings about Thomas Cook as a company or the people who bought their hotel and ticket packages I hope they get sorted out. Amongst the bellends will be a lot of decent fans who were making a once in a lifetime pilgrimage to do something many of us take for granted.

Indeed. I have no serious qualms about people buying tickets with Thomas Cook/hospitality. Not everyone has the luxury of being able to get to Anfield easily - and in some cases, these packages work out cheaper than some of the touts if you factor in the add-ons.
YNWA.

Offline scouser102002

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Re: Thomas Cook
« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2019, 10:04:19 am »
Well they will keep their match ticket in any case, and if they don't then it's because the club have taken if off them, not Thomas Cook.

Hotels/travel etc is a different matter.

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Re: Thomas Cook
« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2019, 10:13:29 am »
Well they will keep their match ticket in any case, and if they don't then it's because the club have taken if off them, not Thomas Cook.

Hotels/travel etc is a different matter.

I imagine their line of "once we've received this information from Thomas Cook" probably means - "once we see if we get paid by Thomas Cook".
If they don't I guess they'd give the supporter the chance to buy their ticket directly from the club

Offline scouser102002

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Re: Thomas Cook
« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2019, 10:47:07 am »
I imagine their line of "once we've received this information from Thomas Cook" probably means - "once we see if we get paid by Thomas Cook".
If they don't I guess they'd give the supporter the chance to buy their ticket directly from the club


The club are going to be out of pocket regardless, unless they find another travel company to take over the contract.

Surely they take the hit rather than asking fans to pay for their ticket twice?

Offline Alan_X

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Re: Thomas Cook
« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2019, 11:05:58 am »
Well they will keep their match ticket in any case, and if they don't then it's because the club have taken if off them, not Thomas Cook.

Hotels/travel etc is a different matter.

What makes you think that?

1. If Thomas Cook bought the tickets in advance they will belong to the Liquidators/Administrators. The Administrators will regard them as assets and decide what to do with them. The club can't just issue duplicates if they belong to someone else.

2. It's possible that there are conditions of sale that mean the tickets would revert to the club in the event of bankruptcy but that wouldn't guarantee the people who bought the package would get the ticket as their contract is with Thomas Cook.

3. If they were reserved by Thomas Cook but not paid for, the club could keep the tickets and re-sell them. But the people who paid money to Thomas Cook will have no claim on the club.

The club may choose to give them away but that's a lot of money. If each package is worth say £100 to the club for ticket and drinks that's half a million or more for the remaining league games.

How do you think it works? Which of the scenarios above do you think is the right one?

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Offline scouser102002

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Re: Thomas Cook
« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2019, 11:15:49 am »
What makes you think that?

1. If Thomas Cook bought the tickets in advance they will belong to the Liquidators/Administrators. The Administrators will regard them as assets and decide what to do with them. The club can't just issue duplicates if they belong to someone else.

2. It's possible that there are conditions of sale that mean the tickets would revert to the club in the event of bankruptcy but that wouldn't guarantee the people who bought the package would get the ticket as their contract is with Thomas Cook.

3. If they were reserved by Thomas Cook but not paid for, the club could keep the tickets and re-sell them. But the people who paid money to Thomas Cook will have no claim on the club.

The club may choose to give them away but that's a lot of money. If each package is worth say £100 to the club for ticket and drinks that's half a million or more for the remaining league games.

How do you think it works? Which of the scenarios above do you think is the right one?



All the packages are sold out, so the tickets have already been bought. How can the liquidators take back something that's already been sold?

The club may have not received their cut from Thomas Cook, meaning they'd be taking a hit on the tickets, but my thinking was the sold tickets are no longer Thomas Cook's to do what they want with, therefore it would be the club who would be turfing the buyer out of the seat if they wanted to salvage some money from things.

I could be and probably am wrong, just how I saw it

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Re: Thomas Cook
« Reply #19 on: September 23, 2019, 11:46:52 am »
All the packages are sold out, so the tickets have already been bought. How can the liquidators take back something that's already been sold?

The packages will have been sold to the fans but for future fixtures the tickets won't have been issued to Thomas Cook by the club. If Thomas Cook have bought in bulk, in advance, the club have the money and ownership of the tickets will be with the Liquidators. The Liquidators have responsibilities to the creditors in a specific order - tax, banks, commercial creditors etc and the fans will be down the list. If they bought on a credit card or have insurance they might be able to get their money back.

Quote
The club may have not received their cut from Thomas Cook, meaning they'd be taking a hit on the tickets, but my thinking was the sold tickets are no longer Thomas Cook's to do what they want with, therefore it would be the club who would be turfing the buyer out of the seat if they wanted to salvage some money from things.

If the club haven't been paid for by the tickets then they remain with the club - they haven't been 'sold' by the club even if they have been sold as a package by Thomas Cook. The fan's transaction with Thomas Cook is nothing to do with the club.

It's exactly the same as any hotel booking, holiday or other deal that Thomas Cook has done. My builder had his Thomas Cook holiday cancelled this morning. It's irrelevant whether the hotel or charter flight has been paid for or not - his contract was with Thomas Cook.

Quote
I could be and probably am wrong, just how I saw it

It's not a straightforward contractual relationship between the fan and the club.
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Offline gazzalfc

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Re: Thomas Cook
« Reply #20 on: September 23, 2019, 12:17:00 pm »
Least this is happening now and not April/May time when they were flogging their finals flights.

Be interesting to see who that club partners with going forward

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Re: Thomas Cook
« Reply #21 on: September 23, 2019, 12:36:29 pm »
Least this is happening now and not April/May time when they were flogging their finals flights.

Be interesting to see who that club partners with going forward

Do Happy Als have any planes?

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Re: Thomas Cook
« Reply #22 on: September 23, 2019, 10:25:02 pm »
Do Happy Als have any planes?

If only Toppings Crown were still around  :o

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Re: Thomas Cook
« Reply #23 on: September 24, 2019, 09:00:42 pm »
Feel sorry for the holiday makers and anyone effected directly and indirectly with this terrible thing, but I can't say the same about them going and not getting their filthy dirty money driven fingers over our fans tickets.

Some other shitehawk will no doubt step in, but for a moment, we can rejoice.

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Re: Thomas Cook
« Reply #24 on: September 27, 2019, 04:38:53 pm »
 Liverpool Football Club has released a further update regarding Thomas Cook Sport.

We would like to thank all supporters who have contacted the club regarding tickets purchased via Thomas Cook.

As a club we want to help minimise the impact on supporters where possible and can confirm that we intend to honour all tickets (ticket only) purchased through Thomas Cook for next week’s games against FC Salzburg and Leicester City.

Supporters will be contacted on Monday by our Fan Services team via email with details of how to secure tickets. Please be advised that we are unable to fulfil any travel arrangements as part of these packages.

Following the insolvency of the travel firm on Monday, the club is still working with Thomas Cook and its liquidators to agree next steps.

The club will issue a further update next week regarding future games. We would like to thank supporters for their patience and understanding during this time.

If supporters would like to contact Thomas Cook directly, visit: https://thomascook.caa.co.uk.

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Re: Thomas Cook
« Reply #25 on: October 11, 2019, 01:14:00 pm »
Liverpool Football Club has released a further update regarding Thomas Cook Sport.

We would like to thank all supporters who have contacted the club regarding tickets purchased via Thomas Cook.

As a club we want to help minimise the impact on supporters where possible and can confirm that we intend to honour all tickets (ticket only) purchased through Thomas Cook for next week’s games against FC Salzburg and Leicester City.

Supporters will be contacted on Monday by our Fan Services team via email with details of how to secure tickets. Please be advised that we are unable to fulfil any travel arrangements as part of these packages.

Following the insolvency of the travel firm on Monday, the club is still working with Thomas Cook and its liquidators to agree next steps.

The club will issue a further update next week regarding future games. We would like to thank supporters for their patience and understanding during this time.

If supporters would like to contact Thomas Cook directly, visit: https://thomascook.caa.co.uk.

They've released pretty much the same statement today

https://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/announcements/368434-thomas-cook-sport-update

Liverpool FC would like to thank all supporters who have contacted the club regarding tickets purchased via Thomas Cook.

As a club we continue to work with Thomas Cook and its liquidators to agree next steps for those fans who have been impacted by the travel firm’s insolvency. An announcement of these steps will be made next week.

We would like to thank supporters for their patience and understanding during this time.

Those wishing to contact Thomas Cook directly can visit: https://thomascook.caa.co.uk.

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Re: Thomas Cook
« Reply #26 on: October 30, 2019, 05:38:57 pm »
Are TravelOptions the new reseller for the club?

From the pre match blog

Teaming up with the club’s official charity, the LFC Foundation, 100 local children enrolled on the club’s half-term holiday camps were presented with a free match ticket, courtesy of Travel Options, an official reseller of hospitality experiences for Liverpool Football Club.

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Re: Thomas Cook
« Reply #27 on: October 30, 2019, 10:55:09 pm »
Are TravelOptions the new reseller for the club?

From the pre match blog

Teaming up with the club’s official charity, the LFC Foundation, 100 local children enrolled on the club’s half-term holiday camps were presented with a free match ticket, courtesy of Travel Options, an official reseller of hospitality experiences for Liverpool Football Club.

Travel options have a table in my hospitality lounge also, so it could be a sweetener from the club

Offline matt_lfc

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Re: Thomas Cook
« Reply #28 on: August 5, 2020, 11:54:30 am »
Match break partners confirmed for new season

Six match break partners have been confirmed as official resellers of the club's matchday hospitality packages for the 2020-21 season.

When the club is permitted to welcome supporters back to full stadiums, the partners will receive the same allocation as previous seasons of 1,088 hospitality tickets, which will then be available to purchase as match break opportunities by supporters.

On behalf of LFC, Sporting Affair Ltd, Footballtravel.com and TravelOptions will continue their existing role as match break partners into the new season. They will be joined by new partners Nordic Leisure Travel Group, sportsbreaks.com, and Club Sports and Events to sell match break hospitality packages to supporters for some of Anfield’s hospitality lounges, including the Reds Bar, The Code Lounge, the Anfield Beat and a variety of off-site venues.

Match break hospitality packages were introduced by the club more than 10 years ago, to offer complete hospitality matchday experiences at Anfield for Reds fans. Periodically, a tender process takes place to select the official resellers that the club will work with going forward.

Each partner was selected after completing a thorough due diligence process.

The selected partners have significant experience through working with a host of other sports clubs as official match break resellers.