Author Topic: Atheism  (Read 183720 times)

Offline thejbs

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #800 on: September 20, 2017, 01:17:05 am »

Offline Corkboy

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #801 on: September 20, 2017, 02:12:19 pm »
I think I posted this before elsewhere but anyway.

Religious Children Are Meaner Than Their Secular Counterparts, Study Finds

Religious belief appears to have negative influence on children’s altruism and judgements of others’ actions even as parents see them as ‘more empathetic’.

Children from religious families are less kind and more punitive than those from non-religious households, according to a new study.

Academics from seven universities across the world studied Christian, Muslim and non-religious children to test the relationship between religion and morality.

They found that religious belief is a negative influence on children’s altruism.

“Overall, our findings … contradict the commonsense and popular assumption that children from religious households are more altruistic and kind towards others,” said the authors of The Negative Association Between Religiousness and Children’s Altruism Across the World, published this week in Current Biology.

“More generally, they call into question whether religion is vital for moral development, supporting the idea that secularisation of moral discourse will not reduce human kindness – in fact, it will do just the opposite.”

Almost 1,200 children, aged between five and 12, in the US, Canada, China, Jordan, Turkey and South Africa participated in the study. Almost 24% were Christian, 43% Muslim, and 27.6% non-religious. The numbers of Jewish, Buddhist, Hindu, agnostic and other children were too small to be statistically valid.

They were asked to choose stickers and then told there were not enough to go round for all children in their school, to see if they would share. They were also shown film of children pushing and bumping one another to gauge their responses.

The findings “robustly demonstrate that children from households identifying as either of the two major world religions (Christianity and Islam) were less altruistic than children from non-religious households”.

Older children, usually those with a longer exposure to religion, “exhibit[ed] the greatest negative relations”.

The study also found that “religiosity affects children’s punitive tendencies”. Children from religious households “frequently appear to be more judgmental of others’ actions”, it said.

Muslim children judged “interpersonal harm as more mean” than children from Christian families, with non-religious children the least judgmental. Muslim children demanded harsher punishment than those from Christian or non-religious homes.

At the same time, the report said that religious parents were more likely than others to consider their children to be “more empathetic and more sensitive to the plight of others”.

The report pointed out that 5.8 billion humans, representing 84% of the worldwide population, identify as religious. “While it is generally accepted that religion contours people’s moral judgments and pro-social behaviour, the relation between religion and morality is a contentious one,” it said.

The report was “a welcome antidote to the presumption that religion is a prerequisite of morality”, said Keith Porteous Wood of the UK National Secular Society.

“It would be interesting to see further research in this area, but we hope this goes some way to undoing the idea that religious ethics are innately superior to the secular outlook. We suspect that people of all faiths and none share similar ethical principles in their day to day lives, albeit may express them differently depending on their worldview.”

According to the respected Pew Research Center, which examines attitudes toward and practices of faith, most people around the world think it is necessary to believe in God to be a moral person. In the US, 53% of adults think that faith in God is necessary to morality, a figure which rose to seven of 10 adults in the Middle East and three-quarters of adults in six African countries surveyed by Pew.

source

Offline losCHUNK

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #802 on: September 21, 2017, 12:44:29 am »
Science has no evidence of how the Universe came into existence. It has documented the progression of the evolution of the Universe given our observations and current understanding

The universe came into existence during a small (tiny) period of inflation, the pillars of our universe (things like gravity) came into existence during that time and before you say what happened before this period of inflation then that's what I mean by moving goal posts, it's the same as evolution when constantly questioning the missing link, everytime an answer is found faith alters its perception to accommodate it.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2017, 12:47:50 am by losCHUNK »

Offline Corkboy

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #803 on: September 28, 2017, 08:37:15 pm »
School Lowered Student’s Grades, Refused Recommendations Because She’s Atheist, Lawsuit Says

Cidney Fisk was an outspoken student at Colorado’s Delta County High School. School faculty didn’t appreciate her opposition to their alleged religious agenda, and punished her by lowering her grades, a new lawsuit claims. Fisk had a 4.1 GPA, was student body treasurer, captain of the speech and debate team, a reporter for the school magazine, and performed community service, yet she says school faculty  hurt her chances at getting into colleges because of the religious conflict she had with them.

She alleges that during her time at the public school, teachers expressed religious views in class, the school district allowed outside individuals to hand out bibles at a middle school during school hours, and that at a school board meeting, one board member said that “transgender students should be castrated,” as per her “Christian” belief.

In 2014, Fisk expressed opposition to a proposed local measure to grant “personhood” to fetuses by speaking out and wearing a costume, along with other students. During a reprimand in front of classmates, a teacher allegedly told Fisk, “God gave babies life and abortion is murder.”

In her 2015-16 senior year, Fisk says she “came out” as an atheist. She spoke and wrote critically of the school’s practices, including what was allegedly an overtly Christian, abstinence-only sex education course. In the spring of 2016, she gave an interview with a local newspaper about the school district, including the bibles being handed out at the middle school. Her complaint says that people issued death threats against her online, and when she notified the school, they did nothing.

Not only that, Fisk says that the teacher for Student Government lowered her grade from a 98 to a 70, and after the local article came out, an F. When Fisk discussed this change with faculty, she was allegedly told it was due to her “questioning of authority,” specifically of the religious variety, and that she should “shut up” if she wants her grades to go back up. Certain grades were raised after Fisk’s parents complained, the lawsuit says.

The complaint says that despite those issues, Fisk’s grades qualified her for the National Honor Society, yet her applications were always denied. She also claims that she was denied scholarships because of her exercise of her right to free speech. In the fall of her senior year, a representative for one scholarship took interest in her and said she would flag Fisk’s application for special attention. Nevertheless, Fisk did not get the scholarship, allegedly because the application required a recommendation, and school faculty wouldn’t submit one.

When Fisk applied to colleges, she alleges that faculty members neglected to submit her applications, which required faculty recommendation, until days before the deadline, and only after her parents complained. Faculty members then allegedly gave negative recommendations, and Fisk failed to get into two of her choices.

The following summer, she claims she suffered from anxiety attacks that sent her to the hospital, and for which she needed medication and psychological counseling.

The lawsuit states claims that the school district and individual faculty members violated Fisk’s First Amendment rights, as well as the Equal Protection clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, and the Colorado State Constitution.

LawNewz.com reached out to the school district for comment and will update upon receiving response.

Source

Bear in mind, this is a public school, and public schools aren't allowed to have religion. The law is firmly on this girl's side yet she got treated like shit for not believing in their religion. How Christian.

Offline thejbs

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #804 on: September 29, 2017, 12:03:52 am »
Americans would appear to be regressing on the school front.

Offline Corkboy

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #805 on: October 2, 2017, 11:37:08 am »

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #806 on: October 2, 2017, 01:15:24 pm »
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline electricghost

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #807 on: October 2, 2017, 01:35:00 pm »
Does he mean in this galaxy?

Which galaxy is this galaxy, and what other galaxies ?   There is no evidence the universe exists so that means no evidence of any galaxy right  ?


There's evidence that we and the universe exists really? Er. What?
“With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.”
― Steven Weinberg

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #808 on: October 2, 2017, 01:42:35 pm »
Which galaxy is this galaxy, and what other galaxies ?   There is no evidence the universe exists so that means no evidence of any galaxy right  ?




Assuming that the Universe does exist in the form we think then our galaxy is very much local compared to every other galaxy (Which are zooming away from us at a fair rate of knots - apart from Andromeda that (assuming it exists) is coming at us like Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson running after a pie)
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline Corkboy

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #809 on: October 2, 2017, 01:44:21 pm »
Does he mean in this galaxy?

Well, let's see. He's on "twitter", which is an Earth invention, speaking in "English", which is an Earth language. He's talking about "God" which, no surprise, is an Earth invention, as is religion. I'm going to stick my neck out and surmise he is talking about "Earth", which I think is in the Milky Way galaxy.

Hope that helps (it probably won't).

Offline electricghost

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #810 on: October 2, 2017, 01:45:47 pm »

Assuming that the Universe does exist in the form we think then our galaxy is very much local compared to every other galaxy (Which are zooming away from us at a fair rate of knots - apart from Andromeda that (assuming it exists) is coming at us like Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson running after a pie)

Why assume the universe exists if you have no evidence that it does?
“With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.”
― Steven Weinberg

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #811 on: October 2, 2017, 01:47:16 pm »
Well, let's see. He's on "twitter", which is an Earth invention, speaking in "English", which is an Earth language. He's talking about "God" which, no surprise, is an Earth invention, as is religion. I'm going to stick my neck out and surmise he is talking about "Earth", which I think is in the Milky Way galaxy.

Hope that helps (it probably won't).

So he's talking about Earth then?

What does where you are born have to do with anything - unless he knows people that are born in a hospital ward and then never leave or are born on a plane and have to stay there for the rest of their lives?
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #812 on: October 2, 2017, 01:47:55 pm »
Why assume the universe exists if you have no evidence that it does?

Gets my vote.
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline Corkboy

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #813 on: October 2, 2017, 02:32:50 pm »
So he's talking about Earth then?

What does where you are born have to do with anything - unless he knows people that are born in a hospital ward and then never leave or are born on a plane and have to stay there for the rest of their lives?

I did it again, folks. I fed the troll. Sorry.

Offline electricghost

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #814 on: October 2, 2017, 02:49:38 pm »
Gets my vote.


So, you are saying you don't think there is evidence the universe exists, but you are prepared to assume it does to ask questions on here, and live your life as if it does exist, and you also agree we shouldn't assume something exists without evidence, yet you think a god exists.

Nuttier than a squirrel turd
“With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.”
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Offline thelinnen

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #815 on: October 2, 2017, 02:54:45 pm »
So he's talking about Earth then?

What does where you are born have to do with anything - unless he knows people that are born in a hospital ward and then never leave or are born on a plane and have to stay there for the rest of their lives?
The point he's making is a bit undeveloped but then again it is in a tweet. If you a born in the US you are likely to be a Christian, in the middle east a Muslim etc.

Where you a born for the most part determines which religion you are indoctrinated into as a child. Ultimately it comes down to what your parents believe though.
« Last Edit: October 2, 2017, 02:56:22 pm by thelinnen »
Then in the midddle out pops a smiling glen johnson pulling up his jersey to reveal a t-shirt of suarez with a text saying. "OUR SUAREZ IS A FRIEND TO ALL COLOURS!"

Offline zero zero

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #816 on: October 2, 2017, 03:57:42 pm »
So he's talking about Earth then?

What does where you are born have to do with anything - unless he knows people that are born in a hospital ward and then never leave or are born on a plane and have to stay there for the rest of their lives?
Andy, I think you have to accept that, as a scientist, Prof Dawkin's worldview is not informed by or limited to people he knows. In this way he is a complete you contrast to you as you have over the years recounted to us many convenient conversations that you'd had with militant Atheists, Manchester United supporters, Tories and Londoners.
« Last Edit: October 2, 2017, 03:59:31 pm by zero zero »

Offline thejbs

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #817 on: October 2, 2017, 04:02:23 pm »
So he's talking about Earth then?

What does where you are born have to do with anything - unless he knows people that are born in a hospital ward and then never leave or are born on a plane and have to stay there for the rest of their lives?

Are you willfully obtuse or a troll?

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #818 on: October 2, 2017, 04:17:35 pm »
The point he's making is a bit undeveloped but then again it is in a tweet. If you a born in the US you are likely to be a Christian, in the middle east a Muslim etc.

Where you a born for the most part determines which religion you are indoctrinated into as a child. Ultimately it comes down to what your parents believe though.

If you were born in the US in 400BC then I'd say it's unlikely to be a Christian.

It seems that he's fudging physical locality and temporal locality to me.
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #819 on: October 2, 2017, 04:18:47 pm »
Andy, I think you have to accept that, as a scientist, Prof Dawkin's worldview is not informed by or limited to people he knows. In this way he is a complete you contrast to you as you have over the years recounted to us many convenient conversations that you'd had with militant Atheists, Manchester United supporters, Tories and Londoners.

I'd say that pretty much everyone ever born doesn't stay at the very same place. Whether you've met them or not.
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline zero zero

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #820 on: October 2, 2017, 04:19:05 pm »
If you were born in the US in 400BC then I'd say it's unlikely to be a Christian.
Was it called the US in 400BC?

Offline zero zero

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #821 on: October 2, 2017, 04:20:02 pm »
I'd say that pretty much everyone ever born doesn't stay at the very same place. Whether you've met them or not.
I would agree. What does this statement have to do with the Dawkins tweet?

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #822 on: October 2, 2017, 04:33:34 pm »
I would agree. What does this statement have to do with the Dawkins tweet?

I'd say that he's inaccurate. He's assuming a place and a time which is different than those when and where a person was born.

Must try harder.
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline zero zero

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #823 on: October 2, 2017, 04:41:58 pm »
I'd say that he's inaccurate. He's assuming a place and a time which is different than those when and where a person was born.

Must try harder.
You indeed must try harder. What are you talking about?

We've established we're all talking about the same universe. Are we still talking about the same tweet?

Offline thelinnen

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #824 on: October 2, 2017, 04:57:18 pm »
If you were born in the US in 400BC then I'd say it's unlikely to be a Christian.

It seems that he's fudging physical locality and temporal locality to me.
The United States didn't exist back then, although the people native to that land had their own belief system that stems from the human perception that everything has a purpose or has to have a supernatural explanation if there is not another one available.

The point he was making was that the beliefs of your parents will likely become yours, if they teach you about their religion when you are a child that is what you are most likely to grow up believing. Adult revelation is a rarity.
Then in the midddle out pops a smiling glen johnson pulling up his jersey to reveal a t-shirt of suarez with a text saying. "OUR SUAREZ IS A FRIEND TO ALL COLOURS!"

Offline Corkboy

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #825 on: October 2, 2017, 05:03:37 pm »
The point he was making was that the beliefs of your parents will likely become yours, if they teach you about their religion when you are a child that is what you are most likely to grow up believing. Adult revelation is a rarity.

Andy knows that. He just wants to be contrarian and obtuse.

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #826 on: October 2, 2017, 08:25:17 pm »

So, you are saying you don't think there is evidence the universe exists, but you are prepared to assume it does to ask questions on here, and live your life as if it does exist, and you also agree we shouldn't assume something exists without evidence, yet you think a god exists.

Nuttier than a squirrel turd

I think it exists. But I have no proof of what it is. We know that most of it isn't like anything we know.
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #827 on: October 2, 2017, 08:26:05 pm »
The United States didn't exist back then, although the people native to that land had their own belief system that stems from the human perception that everything has a purpose or has to have a supernatural explanation if there is not another one available.

The point he was making was that the beliefs of your parents will likely become yours, if they teach you about their religion when you are a child that is what you are most likely to grow up believing. Adult revelation is a rarity.

He should have said that then. He's a knob
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline Elmo!

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #828 on: October 2, 2017, 08:29:15 pm »
He's a knob

Are you sure? How can you even be sure he exists?

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #829 on: October 2, 2017, 11:16:55 pm »
Are you sure? How can you even be sure he exists?

Assuming he exists I'd expect someone with the surety to tell billions of people they are Wankers to at least be able to formulate a tweet that is in some way accurate
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #830 on: October 2, 2017, 11:36:58 pm »
Assuming he exists I'd expect someone with the surety to tell billions of people they are Wankers to at least be able to formulate a tweet that is in some way accurate
There was nothing wrong with his tweet, it works for all religions in all countries.

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #831 on: October 3, 2017, 12:20:55 am »
...We know that most of it isn't like anything we know.

That's not true though. We know that most of it is exactly like what we know. 
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Re: Atheism
« Reply #832 on: October 3, 2017, 10:09:32 am »
That's not true though. We know that most of it is exactly like what we know. 

I doubt it.

If mankind had 1 billion years of exponential growth and exponential gathering of knowledge - if a person came back to now - do you think they'd see the universe in the same way? Or do you think it would be more likely that they would come back and view our 'understanding of the universe' as quaint, old-fashioned and probably wrong.

We certainly can make many things and we certainly can understand many things now, but even looking back a few hundred years there are many examples of things that were 'completely understood' at the time that (on looking back) were actually somewhat redundant, incomplete or just plain wrong - once you've got a better understanding of everything.

We've only really been at this science lark for a few thousand years, so the fact that we don't know it all is entirely forgivable. That we're so arrogant that we think we know it all is less forgivable. You can't even say that we've pretty much got everything now. Advances in technology in even the last 50 years has brought inventions and knowledge that couldn't have even been knowable 100 years ago.
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Re: Atheism
« Reply #833 on: October 3, 2017, 10:18:33 am »
Who thinks "they know it all"? No scientist, that's for sure. I know of none who make that absolutist claim. Nor do you. On the contrary humility (which is perfectly consistent with ambition) is built into the scientific process. It is driven by a curiosity about "what we don't know".

The only people who claim to "know it all" are religious fundamentalists. They have to "know it all" because they fetishise a single book. Christians are less sure than they were a couple of hundred years ago, partly because of the very real achievements of science. But Islam has proved more obdurate. You still don't get many brownie points for standing in a public square in Peshawar, brandishing the Koran, and saying "This book probably doesn't constitute the absolute truth."

"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #834 on: October 3, 2017, 10:22:51 am »
Andy takes refuge in ever receding pockets of ignorance.

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #835 on: October 3, 2017, 10:27:44 am »
Who thinks "they know it all"? No scientist, that's for sure. I know of none who make that absolutist claim. Nor do you. On the contrary humility (which is perfectly consistent with ambition) is built into the scientific process. It is driven by a curiosity about "what we don't know".

The only people who claim to "know it all" are religious fundamentalists. They have to "know it all" because they fetishise a single book. Christians are less sure than they were a couple of hundred years ago, partly because of the very real achievements of science. But Islam has proved more obdurate. You still don't get many brownie points for standing in a public square in Peshawar, brandishing the Koran, and saying "This book probably doesn't constitute the absolute truth."




I'm quite interested in the history of science and although we'd all love it to be as noble as it's portrayed - there are many truths that have been supressed over the years because those surpressing it had a gravy-train going on, or didn't like being challenged by new ideas or had been given back-handers.

One book that I've read a few times has some very interesting stories and views and is a great book to read in its own right : Bill Bryson - A Short History of Nearly Everything. I've got a few other books along similar themes and it's plain that all the things that happen in our Business Lives, in Politics and in life in general also happens in Science as well. Scientists are humans with their own wants, needs, views and ideas. Unfortunately some of them aren't as honest as you may like and all the usual human 'sins' of pride, jealousy, greed and the rest feature.

I like the early works of Arthur C. Clarke and they honestly make me laugh - he manages to capture the view of scientists - all in competition and all pretty much disliking each other very, very well but in a humourous way.

Eventually though, the truth comes out and mankind as a whole benefits and moves on roudn the wheel.
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

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Re: Atheism
« Reply #836 on: October 3, 2017, 10:33:10 am »
What wheel would that be?
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Re: Atheism
« Reply #837 on: October 3, 2017, 10:37:25 am »
I doubt it.

If mankind had 1 billion years of exponential growth and exponential gathering of knowledge - if a person came back to now - do you think they'd see the universe in the same way? Or do you think it would be more likely that they would come back and view our 'understanding of the universe' as quaint, old-fashioned and probably wrong.

We certainly can make many things and we certainly can understand many things now, but even looking back a few hundred years there are many examples of things that were 'completely understood' at the time that (on looking back) were actually somewhat redundant, incomplete or just plain wrong - once you've got a better understanding of everything.

We've only really been at this science lark for a few thousand years, so the fact that we don't know it all is entirely forgivable. That we're so arrogant that we think we know it all is less forgivable. You can't even say that we've pretty much got everything now. Advances in technology in even the last 50 years has brought inventions and knowledge that couldn't have even been knowable 100 years ago.

Who said we know it all? What I said is that astronomy, astrophysics and in particular astronomical spectroscopy, enable us to be 99.99% certain that the Universe is all made of the same stuff and behaves according to the same laws as the tiny bit that we are able to physically explore.

In fact it would be infinitely improbable and an extreme example of exceptionalism to assume that the little bit we live in has its own laws, physics and chemistry.

There is a vast amount that we don't know, but science has continuously built on our previous knowledge and carried out experiment after experiment and observation after observation to provide a sound and robust understanding of the universe we are a tiny part of.
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Re: Atheism
« Reply #838 on: October 3, 2017, 10:37:27 am »
I doubt it.

If mankind had 1 billion years of exponential growth and exponential gathering of knowledge - if a person came back to now - do you think they'd see the universe in the same way? Or do you think it would be more likely that they would come back and view our 'understanding of the universe' as quaint, old-fashioned and probably wrong.

We certainly can make many things and we certainly can understand many things now, but even looking back a few hundred years there are many examples of things that were 'completely understood' at the time that (on looking back) were actually somewhat redundant, incomplete or just plain wrong - once you've got a better understanding of everything.

We've only really been at this science lark for a few thousand years, so the fact that we don't know it all is entirely forgivable. That we're so arrogant that we think we know it all is less forgivable. You can't even say that we've pretty much got everything now. Advances in technology in even the last 50 years has brought inventions and knowledge that couldn't have even been knowable 100 years ago.
I don’t agree.

Whilst the works of Democritus were not entirely correct, they had an essential truth that was then built on.

The idea of matter as being discrete, was as a result of fundamental intellect late break throughs.

Indeed, the same could be said if Newton, his work is fundamental to science , but his idea of an essentially flat universe has been superseded by the concept of the universe as 3 sphere..

These are ideas that were fundamentally brilliant and correct, but with each break through we add more detail to them.
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Re: Atheism
« Reply #839 on: October 3, 2017, 10:44:59 am »
I think it exists. But I have no proof of what it is. We know that most of it isn't like anything we know.

You think it exists but you don't think there is evidence that it exists.

How did you determine the universe exists absent of evidence it exists ?
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