Topic: Typhoid Trump: the not-smart, corrupt, coward, loser, thread

[Jonny-B]

Cheers for that.

Good ol' Nate Silver. You can always (or at least often) rely on him to cut through the media noise to provide some reasoned analysis.

They'll end up coalescing around the most outwardly moderate candidate like they always do. The Trump thing will be fun to watch just to see how crazy he will go.

[Trada]

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/0uIx_7srVj0" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/0uIx_7srVj0</a>

[Twelfth Man]

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/XpgJYNaIeqo?fs=1" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/XpgJYNaIeqo?fs=1</a>

A couple of months old, but a good in-depth interview with Bernie. His election would have have such profound impact on progressive politics around the world. Imagine somehow winning the Presidency without super-pacs, just with a grassroots campaign on issues in America the spiritual home of the free market. Will never happen, but we can dream.

[ShayGuevara]

Yes, these two people are running for the same party.

[Twelfth Man]

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/y4DsRfmj5aQ?fs=1" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/y4DsRfmj5aQ?fs=1</a>

Wish we could transplant Bernie over here. His message is just as relevant, and he also sounds like he's been campaigning about these issues all his life.

[exiledintheUSA]

Begining to think Trump could actually win the Rep. Primary, laughable to the extreme but now a distinct possibility.

[ericthered10]

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/y4DsRfmj5aQ?fs=1" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/y4DsRfmj5aQ?fs=1</a>

Wish we could transplant Bernie over here. His message is just as relevant, and he also sounds like he's been campaigning about these issues all his life.

He has, a big reason why he's the only candidate I can back. He walks the walk. Only candidate to not take any superPAC money because that would be hypocritical given his hatred of Citizens United ruling, he's legit.

[ericthered10]

Begining to think Trump could actually win the Rep. Primary, laughable to the extreme but now a distinct possibility.

Here's a good (fairly long) article on Trump and goes into the unseen and unheard vein that he's tapped into that's given him a meteoric rise among the perpetually disenfranchised (in their mind) far right in the US.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/08/31/the-fearful-and-the-frustrated

[redmark]

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/aug/30/chris-christie-i-would-track-immigrants-like-fedex-packages

New Jersey’s governor, Chris Christie, said on Saturday he would combat illegal immigration by tracking foreign visitors like FedEx packages.

Christie, who is well back in the pack seeking the Republican nomination for president, told a campaign event in the early-voting state of New Hampshire that, if elected president, he would ask FedEx’s chief executive officer, Fred Smith, to devise the tracking system.

Immigration has become a top issue in the Republican campaign, with front-runner Donald Trump vowing to deport all the estimated 11 million illegal immigrants and to build a wall along the southern border.

“At any moment, FedEx can tell you where that package is. It’s on the truck. It’s at the station. It’s on the airplane,” Christie told the crowd in Laconia, New Hampshire. “Yet we let people come to this country with visas, and the minute they come in, we lose track of them,” he said.

“We need to have a system that tracks you from the moment you come in, and then when your time is up ... however long your visa is, then we go get you. We tap you on the shoulder and say, ‘Excuse me. Thanks for coming. Time to go,’” Christie said.

[Red Beret]

Yes, these two people are running for the same party.

So he's the American version of Corbyn?

[elsewhere]

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/08/mike-huckabee-10-year-old-rape-victim-should-be-forced-to-carry-rapists-baby/

at least Trump has comedy value at times, this guy jut makes me sick to my stomach.

[BobPaisley3]

Carson gaining some momentum.

[ShayGuevara]

So he's the American version of Corbyn?

Yes, his views are very similar. I think he knows just how much he can get away with in the US though.

The US is a lot more right wing, Cornyns views would be considered lunacy over there.

Immigration and terrorism are big talking points over there, anyone considered "soft" would be left for toast.

The US presidential race is basically who can buy it through lobbyists, I think im correct in saying the eventual winner was the candidate that recieved the most donations don't quote me on that though.

Saunders faces a massive task.

[Romeo Sensini]

Yes, his views are very similar. I think he knows just how much he can get away with in the US though.

The US is a lot more right wing, Cornyns views would be considered lunacy over there.

Immigration and terrorism are big talking points over there, anyone considered "soft" would be left for toast.

Saunders faces a massive task.

In the past week there has been discussions of not only building a wall along Mexico (to prevent rapists, crime, and drugs), but now Canada. Polling has over 60% of Trump supporters believing Obama is both a Muslim and an immigrant born in Kenya. This is the man leading at the moment for the GOP. The two leading GOP candidates have zero political experience.

Sanders, who has admitted to being a socialist in the past, isn't even bring viewed as a threat by the right. I really haven't heard anything negative yet on Sanders from the conservatives. Considering how Obama is laughably considered by many on the right as a socialist/communist, Sanders would probably be Stalin's reincarnate. At the moment, most of the focus is on the Clinton e-mail servers. Unless there is some major shake-up with Clinton, I just don't see Sanders overtaking her. Even then, I would imagine Biden would most definitely step in. It is refreshing to see someone with the views of Sanders getting around 20% of the Dem support, but on the other hand worrying someone like Trump getting similar numbers on the right.

[ShayGuevara]

In the past week there has been discussions of not only building a wall along Mexico (to prevent rapists, crime, and drugs), but now Canada. Polling has over 60% of Trump supporters believing Obama is both a Muslim and an immigrant born in Kenya. This is the man leading at the moment for the GOP. The two leading GOP candidates have zero political experience.

Sanders, who has admitted to being a socialist in the past, isn't even bring viewed as a threat by the right. I really haven't heard anything negative yet on Sanders from the conservatives. Considering how Obama is laughably considered by many on the right as a socialist/communist, Sanders would probably be Stalin's reincarnate. At the moment, most of the focus is on the Clinton e-mail servers. Unless there is some major shake-up with Clinton, I just don't see Sanders overtaking her. Even then, I would imagine Biden would most definitely step in. It is refreshing to see someone with the views of Sanders getting around 20% of the Dem support, but on the other hand worrying someone like Trump getting similar numbers on the right.

I think Trump really exposes how ridiculous American politics are. Essentialy one of the most important jobs in the world and on the republican side you have either the choice of a 3rd Bush administration or Donald Trump, they'd be better off with Donald fucking Duck.

Trump plays off all that right media bullshit and tells those what they want to hear, he himself is an idiot only in America could a man like that make the money he has.

Then you have Clinton on the other side, a corparate puppet who will do nothing but carry on the work of Obama, Bush and good old Bill "I did not have sexual affairs with that woman" Clinton. Hoping those Wikileaks really effect her as she'd be a terrible choice and a likely winner IMO.

Saunders on the other hand is very well spoken, highly educated and a good guy. He'd really change America for the better. Without the donations or media on his side it's going to be extremely tough, in fact near impossible.

Only back from the US and to see so many people homeless and living off tips in the richest country in the world broke my heart. A great country in so many ways but the class divide is sickening. Not just money either, access top education and medical care also. It's a ruthless place.

[Lone Star Red]

I think Trump really exposes how ridiculous American politics are. Essentialy one of the most important jobs in the world and on the republican side you have either the choice of a 3rd Bush administration or Donald Trump, they'd be better off with Donald fucking Duck.

Good thing those two aren't the only options even though your post makes it out to be that way.

[Lone Star Red]

Oh, and Sanders is basically the Democratic version of Ron Paul. Old as hell and has extreme views.

He's far too left wing to appeal to independents, the largest voter base (by far) in the US.

It's going to be Clinton or Biden for the Democrats.

[ShayGuevara]

Oh, and Sanders is basically the Democratic version of Ron Paul. Old as hell and has extreme views.

He's far too left wing to appeal to independents, the largest voter base (by far) in the US.

It's going to be Clinton or Biden for the Democrats.

Being old is a bad thing? You're probably more educated than myself on the matter but which of his views are too extreme?

[thejbs]

Being old is a bad thing? You're probably more educated than myself on the matter but which of his views are too extreme?

It's sad that the politics of humanity and decency are seen as extreme viewpoints:(

[ShayGuevara]

After reading any articles on the race I normally look at the comments sections to see people's attitudes towards Saunders. More often than now there's at least one person criticising Saunders by saying something like "bernie Saunders is a socialist" or "dirty socialist". Found that really strange, the mentality is different in America.

[Lone Star Red]

Being old is a bad thing? You're probably more educated than myself on the matter but which of his views are too extreme?

It was for McCain in 2008. Democrats absolutely roasted him on it. Obviously he had some health issues in his past, but there was a huge uproar about his age being a potential problem.

I'll slightly rephrase my Sanders assertion, as it may have been a little harsh initially. I think his ideals and beliefs line up with some of the core tenants of the Democratic party, but that ship sailed a long time ago in my opinion.

From what I have read and know however, his economic views are what I consider extreme or irresponsible.

[Lone Star Red]

After reading any articles on the race I normally look at the comments sections to see people's attitudes towards Saunders. More often than now there's at least one person criticising Saunders by saying something like "bernie Saunders is a socialist" or "dirty socialist". Found that really strange, the mentality is different in America.

Well, has he not admitted to being a socialist or having socialistic tendencies? So I guess the first quote you brought up isn't entirely extreme.

But yes, socialism tends to be a dirty word around the US considering this country is considered to be the bastion of capitalism.

It's Sanders by the way. No "u". 

[Anywhichwayicant]

Democratic socialist is what he considers himself.

[Romeo Sensini]

Being old is a bad thing?

It is a little worrying that all the Democratic candidates are in or close to their 70s. Democrats rely on young voters, it might be harder to sell an older candidate to the younger demographic. I guess when you look at a candidate you want someone who will be viable for 2 terms/8 years. Lets say Clinton gets elected for two terms, she'll be mid-late 70s at the end of her final term. Sanders and Biden would be in their early 80s. Older you get, more health issues. Oldest president elected was Reagan, who was a few days short of 70. According to his son, he was showing signs of senility by his 2nd term. That may float around in people's minds.

[ShayGuevara]

Well, has he not admitted to being a socialist or having socialistic tendencies? So I guess the first quote you brought up isn't entirely extreme.

But yes, socialism tends to be a dirty word around the US considering this country is considered to be the bastion of capitalism.

It's Sanders by the way. No "u". 

I still don't get how it's a bad thing. Thanks for the heads up, possibly another example of a surname getting mispelled and changed when it hits the new world.

It was for McCain in 2008. Democrats absolutely roasted him on it. Obviously he had some health issues in his past, but there was a huge uproar about his age being a potential problem.

I'll slightly rephrase my Sanders assertion, as it may have been a little harsh initially. I think his ideals and beliefs line up with some of the core tenants of the Democratic party, but that ship sailed a long time ago in my opinion.

From what I have read and know however, his economic views are what I consider extreme or irresponsible.

.

Yes but why has it changed, is the average American not concerned about the homeless problem, welfare, free health care or the class divide? Or are they more concerned about building a wall between Mexico and America to keep those immigrants out? Forgetting of course they are indeed themselves descendents of immigrants.

Would still be interested in hearing those extreme views, partly because I've listened to a few of his speechs and ticked all that boxes for me. I'm presuming I'm missing something though?!

[ShayGuevara]

It is a little worrying that all the Democratic candidates are in or close to their 70s. Democrats rely on young voters, it might be harder to sell an older candidate to the younger demographic. I guess when you look at a candidate you want someone who will be viable for 2 terms/8 years. Lets say Clinton gets elected for two terms, she'll be mid-late 70s at the end of her final term. Sanders and Biden would be in their early 80s. Older you get, more health issues. Oldest president elected was Reagan, who was a few days short of 70. According to his son, he was showing signs of senility by his 2nd term. That may float around in peoples' minds.

Yes I guess that is a fair point but certainly wouldn't influence my decision, it's hardly a deal breaker.

[BobPaisley3]

Good thing those two aren't the only options even though your post makes it out to be that way.

Exactly, neither of them will win the nomination.

[ShayGuevara]

Exactly, neither of them will win the nomination.

Be very surprised if it wasn't one or the other personally, likely Bush as crazy as that sounds.

Who do you think will win?

[BobPaisley3]

Be very surprised if it wasn't one or the other personally, likely Bush as crazy as that sounds.

Who do you think will win?

I think it might be a candidate from outside the political mainstream. The rhetoric I'm reading in the States is that many in the GOP are tired of the mud slinging of the old faces, Bush, Paul, Perry etc. Trump is an idiot and I think eventually he'll drop off. I think Carson would be their best bet if he can last the course. No real baggage, will appeal to minority voters as well as traditional republicans, respected from his career as a neurosurgeon. Will be interesting to see but Clinton v Bush would be nauseating.

[ShayGuevara]

I think it might be a candidate from outside the political mainstream. The rhetoric I'm reading in the States is that many in the GOP are tired of the mud slinging of the old faces, Bush, Paul, Perry etc. Trump is an idiot and I think eventually he'll drop off. I think Carson would be their best bet if he can last the course. No real baggage, will appeal to minority voters as well as traditional republicans, respected from his career as a neurosurgeon. Will be interesting to see but Clinton v Bush would be nauseating.

Paul would be an interesting choice but looks no where near. I think it's between Trump and Bush personally, you may well know more than I however.

Clinton looks pretty strong on the democratic side. Interesting that Sanders reason for not standing as an independent is that he doesn't want to take a split of the democratic vote which would mean more of a chance of a republican victory.

Sanders is a very good choice though, I'm a real fan. Speaks very well and says a lot of the right things, well in my view anyway. Would love to see him lead the democrats.

[Anywhichwayicant]

They'll rig the vote before they let Sanders anywhere near the white house.

[Twelfth Man]

Democratic socialist is what he considers himself.

Sounds ridiculously reasonable to me.

[Redcap]

Paul would be an interesting choice but looks no where near. I think it's between Trump and Bush personally, you may well know more than I however.

As posted above by Gerrvindh:

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/aug/22/donald-trump-wont-win-republican-presidential-nomination

So it's unlikely to be Trump. Bush has been the favourite all along, but so far he hasn't exactly been firing on all cylinders, has he? At this very early stage, you have to say someone like Walker or Rubio are likely to be as competitive.

I wonder how long Biden will wait before declaring one way or the other. I suspect he'd have a reasonably good chance of winning the nomination, but I'm not sure if a referendum on the Obama presidency would work in his favour, particularly when Joe's not going to attract young, African-American and ethnic minority voters like Obama did.

The path to Democrats winning elections in the last 20 years seems to mostly require a youngish, highly charismatic nominee firing up these two bases and getting them out in record numbers. I like Biden a lot - he seems like a genuinely decent human being who would be a safe pair of hands for the presidency, but I don't know who he would fire up other than Leslie Knope. Hillary at least appears to continue to be a real role model for women, in spite of her less savoury qualities.

[ShayGuevara]

Bidens another puppet mate.

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/bde80c72-9fb0-11e3-b6c7-00144feab7de.html#axzz3kffncsER

Although I expect Obama to fast track it before he leaves office, no body in office to blame it on then when even more freedom is taken away from us. Same shit different year.

I don't really expect Trump to win either, Id be surprised if Bush didn't though. Trumps doing a great job increasing his profile and business interests while taking the eye off Hillary and Bush.

I also think Hillary being a woman shouldn't even be a factor in her being voted for.

[Farman]

I also think Hillary being a woman shouldn't even be a factor in her being voted for.

Agreed. But it is, as being black was for Obama. Both positive and negative.

[ShayGuevara]

Agreed. But it is, as being black was for Obama. Both positive and negative.

Yes of course. What a positive, forward thinking country America is.

[Lone Star Red]

Be very surprised if it wasn't one or the other personally, likely Bush as crazy as that sounds.

Who do you think will win?

There's no way Trump wins the nomination. His steam is already starting to falter and it's only September. By the new year, I have a feeling he'll be completely out of it.

But like you said, he's done his business empire no harm though.

[Lone Star Red]

I still don't get how it's a bad thing. Thanks for the heads up, possibly another example of a surname getting mispelled and changed when it hits the new world.
 .

Yes but why has it changed, is the average American not concerned about the homeless problem, welfare, free health care or the class divide? Or are they more concerned about building a wall between Mexico and America to keep those immigrants out? Forgetting of course they are indeed themselves descendents of immigrants.

Would still be interested in hearing those extreme views, partly because I've listened to a few of his speechs and ticked all that boxes for me. I'm presuming I'm missing something though?!

I have a feeling that what I view as extreme or just not smart when it comes to Sanders' views is basically just the norm in western Europe. I think his views on the economy are downright scary and while they may work in Europe, they will not work here and would do way more harm than good.

[ShayGuevara]

I have a feeling that what I view as extreme or just not smart when it comes to Sanders' views is basically just the norm in western Europe. I think his views on the economy are downright scary and while they may work in Europe, they will not work here and would do way more harm than good.

He's planning on breaking up Wall Streets big firms and fight against corparations that have to much power and control in the US, he one of a few candidates if not the only (I'd have to double check) that opposes TTP.

He's the one guy fighting the corner of the average man or woman in America. I don't just mean the most vulnerable in society either. It's the greedy and super rich that would take a hit but I'm sure they can afford it.

[ericthered10]

I have a feeling that what I view as extreme or just not smart when it comes to Sanders' views is basically just the norm in western Europe. I think his views on the economy are downright scary and while they may work in Europe, they will not work here and would do way more harm than good.

I'd love to discuss this some. What policies of his are scary to you, and what policies do you think would not work here? It's so odd to me in general that we had a major recession caused by a number of factors merely 7 years ago that we're still recovering from and listening to the candidates its as if everyone has forgotten the why's and how's of it except Bernie. I was just talking about this with a friend last night actually...Republicans (of which I know you are one) seem to think that all liberals or Dems want to increase the size of government when its definitely not necessarily true. I don't think we need more govt bloat or even to raise taxes, I think we need to rid the govt entirely of the cronyism that renders it ineffectual in many senses to be the appropriate check and balance for the supranational corporate class. The revolving door of industry to govt to industry where the henhouse is being guarded by wolves needs to end. We need to diminish the failed experiment with private contractors getting sweetheart deals and public-private partnerships that almost never create a good ROI for the taxpayers given the outlay. Military waste (F35 anyone) is rife and needs overhaul. The off the books black budget for DOD and NSA is absurd and there is absolutely no oversight whatsoever, just a secret money pit. There are plenty of opportunities to tweak the govt that will not grow its size and stature, merely make it more effectual and efficient, more liberty driven and beholden to the people, and it only takes a budgetary reshuffle and some intelligent policies that I think Bernie has a grip on. The way we elect people and the insane money existing in politics only serves to entrench the problems and that's another area that Bernie addresses. I for one am weary of the oligarchy we have fashioned for ourselves and capitalism that's run amok to the point where it only works for the few. Bernie will not turn this country socialist, I can guarantee you that, he just understands that at the moment money and business have entirely co-opted the founding purpose and functionality of our govt, and proposes solutions that, each in isolation, will solve specific problems and regain parity within the public/private relations.