Topic: The Racist Russian Fanciers Party

[zebenzui]

I've checked, and I can confirm that his comment is not official UKIP policy. You can have my word on that.

Nothing is UKIP policy, their manifesto has about 5 pages of actual written content. Real political parties have manifestos the size of small books.

Meanwhile, it's completely at odds with believing in an individuals right to freedom (including sexuality) if you discriminate against those who votes UKIP.

That's so fucking stupid I'm not even going to try to cook up a response to it.

[24/7]

Meanwhile, it's completely at odds with believing in an individuals right to freedom (including sexuality) if you discriminate against those who votes UKIP.

I am not sure it's "discrimination" if it's combatting self-interested, biogotted and ethically-unsound values laughingly passing off as 'ethics'. In your case it's the online internet forum equivalent of a mercy killing.

[TepidT2O]

how come ukip are full of c*nts

To quote Homer Simpson

"It's funny because it's true"

[jaffod]

Nothing is UKIP policy, their manifesto has about 5 pages of actual written content. Real political parties have manifestos the size of small books.

That's so fucking stupid I'm not even going to try to cook up a response to it.

That's impressive, although it's clearly been no guarantee they wont systematically turn the country into a fucking shithole over the last 4 decades.

[zebenzui]

That's impressive, although it's clearly been no guarantee they wont systematically turn the country into a fucking shithole over the last 4 decades.

Regardless, it doesn't detract from my original point that it's exceedingly difficult to vote for UKIP on the basis of policy - as they have none.

[KUNGFUDANCER]

why do you guys think controlled immigration is bad? US, Canada, Australia have controlled immigration.

[24/7]

why do you guys think controlled immigration is bad? US, Canada, Australia have controlled immigration.

Controlled immigration and rampant xenophobia are two very different things.

[GREGtheRED]

Controlled immigration and rampant xenophobia are two very different things.

Unfortunately, in Britain there is a certain section of society who quickly and forcefully involve themselves in any debate concerning the merits of unrestricted vs. controlled immigration in order to portray anyone with a legitimate, moderate view as a racist. This is very unhelpful as it does nothing other than cause those who would ordinarily favour control in the form of a sensible, practical immigration policy to simply throw their lot in with those parties who genuinely have a dislike of foreigners.

My girlfriend is "foreign" and is a wonderful, compassionate, intelligent person who contributes to both our society and economy and I would hate it to get to a stage where others like her cannot come here and help us drive the country forward, but we cannot go on as we are with net migration being in the hundreds of thousands while already we have a terrifying lack of houses and adequate public services.

[KUNGFUDANCER]

Controlled immigration and rampant xenophobia are two very different things.

What xenophobic policy will UKIP implement if they get power? I have read Frottage supports integrating Nepalese Gurkhas. 

[gamble]

What xenophobic policy will UKIP implement if they get power? I have read Frottage supports integrating Nepalese Gurkhas. 

That's called politicking. You have a lot to learn about Frottage. He doesn't really give a shit, he's get rich off the back of fear and prejudice.

[gregor]

What xenophobic policy will UKIP implement if they get power? I have read Frottage supports integrating Nepalese Gurkhas. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4Rq7avG234

Have a watch of this. Frottage just tells outright lies (ie the lie about school children in London not being able to speak English) to whip up fear. Most people who interview him either can't or don't press him hard enough on what he says. This interviewer does.

[jaffod]

Unfortunately, in Britain there is a certain section of society who quickly and forcefully involve themselves in any debate concerning the merits of unrestricted vs. controlled immigration in order to portray anyone with a legitimate, moderate view as a racist. This is very unhelpful as it does nothing other than cause those who would ordinarily favour control in the form of a sensible, practical immigration policy to simply throw their lot in with those parties who genuinely have a dislike of foreigners.

My girlfriend is "foreign" and is a wonderful, compassionate, intelligent person who contributes to both our society and economy and I would hate it to get to a stage where others like her cannot come here and help us drive the country forward, but we cannot go on as we are with net migration being in the hundreds of thousands while already we have a terrifying lack of houses and adequate public services.

Best, and most accurate, post in the thread.

[24/7]

Unfortunately, in Britain there is a certain section of society who quickly and forcefully involve themselves in any debate concerning the merits of unrestricted vs. controlled immigration in order to portray anyone with a legitimate, moderate view as a racist. This is very unhelpful as it does nothing other than cause those who would ordinarily favour control in the form of a sensible, practical immigration policy to simply throw their lot in with those parties who genuinely have a dislike of foreigners.

My girlfriend is "foreign" and is a wonderful, compassionate, intelligent person who contributes to both our society and economy and I would hate it to get to a stage where others like her cannot come here and help us drive the country forward, but we cannot go on as we are with net migration being in the hundreds of thousands while already we have a terrifying lack of houses and adequate public services.

That is an excellent, erudite, considered and compassionate post. Unfortunately it tends to go right over the heads of people too fucking thick to get the point you are making. Frottage and Co know this. They play on it. They use it to their political advantage. People like them create fear, confusion and deliberate obfuscation that conceals to all but the most analytical and sensible that they are utterly incapable of implementing anything remotely resembling a workable control mechanism. I hope I am being a little bit clearer now on this instead of coming across as knee-jerkish in any way whatsoever.

This is why I genuinely fear for the future of the country - not cos too many darkies and poofters are getting in and getting everything for free, but because too many fucking thick twats are being hoodwinked into believing that too many darkies and poofters are getting in and getting everything for free. It's socio-political manipulation by fear without offering a proper, workable, manageable solution to what does, at the end of the day, amount to a genuine concern.

I don't pretend to know or have the solution either - I just know deep in my heart of hearts that right-wing, neo-fascism masquerading as sensibility is as far removed from the solution as we can get.......and increasingly disturbingly closer to the Solution, if you get my drift.

KUNGFUDANCER - you do indeed have a lot to learn about Frottage. My suggestion is to read more and post less until you are clearer on what is happening here.

[viteslesrouges]

That is an excellent, erudite, considered and compassionate post. Unfortunately it tends to go right over the heads of people too fucking thick to get the point you are making. Frottage and Co know this. They play on it. They use it to their political advantage. People like them create fear, confusion and deliberate obfuscation that conceals to all but the most analytical and sensible that they are utterly incapable of implementing anything remotely resembling a workable control mechanism. I hope I am being a little bit clearer now on this instead of coming across as knee-jerkish in any way whatsoever.

This is why I genuinely fear for the future of the country - not cos too many darkies and poofters are getting in and getting everything for free, but because too many fucking thick twats are being hoodwinked into believing that too many darkies and poofters are getting in and getting everything for free. It's socio-political manipulation by fear without offering a proper, workable, manageable solution to what does, at the end of the day, amount to a genuine concern.

I don't pretend to know or have the solution either - I just know deep in my heart of hearts that right-wing, neo-fascism masquerading as sensibility is as far removed from the solution as we can get.......and increasingly disturbingly closer to the Solution, if you get my drift.

KUNGFUDANCER - you do indeed have a lot to learn about Frottage. My suggestion is to read more and post less until you are clearer on what is happening here.

Both the above and GregTheRed's post really sum it up well.

For what it's worth I think UKIP's target audience for votes isn't the 30-40% who actually turn out on election day though they're happy to get votes from the traditional three contestants.

UKIP are targetting the mass who don't vote at all, the non-politicised, who don't care about manifestos and policies, just rhetoric and images on TV and billboards. Any party who can motivate and get this majority to the polling booths has a chance.

[TepidT2O]

Ok, going to post a good article from the daily mail (no, really)

It's by the guy who interviewed Farrage

On Friday I finally got the chance to interview Frottage.
Why was I disturbed by the surging popularity of a man so many apparently saw as a powerful force for good, a perfect antidote to stagnant and self-serving political debate? Was I mad – or was he really that bad?
It wasn’t just the murky associations, casual bigotry and apparent hypocrisies of the man himself that convinced me; it was the remarkable effect he was clearly having on two types of callers to my daily show.
First, people who make no effort to disguise their disdain for foreigners – long a staple of phone-ins – seemed emboldened to go beyond the boundaries of what they like to call ‘political correctness’ but I prefer to think of as good manners.
‘You’re not allowed to say what you think any more’ is a popular refrain.
It has always confused me, so I generally ask callers to say what it is they think they are not allowed to say. The question is rarely conducive to further conversation.

'Much of the nation has been seduced by the "pint and a fag" blokeish bonhomie of Frottage'
Rightly or wrongly, these people were clearly of the view that Frottage was one of their own and whenever the issue of UKIP arose on air, they would be out in force.
They also stalk my Twitter account like so many keyboard terrorists, employing multiple anonymous identities, referencing Nelson or St George and sending seemingly endless tirades of rancour and racist recrimination.
Why, I wondered, were so many possessed of truly rancid views drawn to a man generally portrayed so positively?
Second, and of much more concern to me, were the callers who could not in a million years be described as racist or bigoted or bad. They were simply scared. And often rather angry.
Scared that their homes were going to be overrun by hordes of Bulgarians, scared their children or grandchildren would have no school to go to due to a shortage of places, angry that foreign criminals were not being deported and convinced that ‘faceless bureaucrats’ in Brussels were ruining their lives.
They seemed to see Frottage as some sort of saviour and, while he fed their fears and exaggerated their concerns, they became angrier and he more popular.
I like these people. They are my friends, my colleagues and ultimately my livelihood.
The more I read, the more I heard and the more I learned about Frottage, the more they seemed to me to be dancing blindly behind a political Pied Piper.
Finally, last Friday morning, in what will probably rank as the most surreal and spectacular studio encounter of my career,  I got the chance to look into those eyes and work out what really lies beneath. I am not going to forget the experience.

'The tale of feeling uncomfortable on a train when foreign languages are spoken caused him to squirm due to the fact that his own wife and daughters speak "foreign"'
It came about after a caller said he was keen to enlist Frottage’s help in combating my own frequently expressed fear that the UKIP leader was fomenting racism.
With characteristic cool, Frottage laughed off the accusations and laid down a ‘challenge’ to meet me ‘face to face’ in order to put me straight.
I was also, apparently, ‘a member of the political class and their friends in the media’.
The toothy grin, the relaxed demeanour, the impeccable tailoring and the firm handshake were in evidence immediately. It took mere moments for something less wholesome to appear.
That morning it had been reported that UKIP’s small business spokesman, Amjad Bashir, was being investigated for allegedly employing seven illegal immigrants.
Frottage claimed his man had no involvement  with the firm. I pointed out he resigned as a director three days after the immigration raid.
'The toothy grin, the relaxed demeanour, the impeccable tailoring and the firm handshake were in evidence immediately. It took mere moments for something less wholesome to appear'
 
Next, a listener had forwarded me some comments from a UKIP council candidate in which he spoke of wanting to ‘shoot’ a ‘poofter’. Frottage promised an investigation. I pointed out the comments had been made in February. He went quiet.
When I brought up the subject of his meeting with a particularly repellent resident of the far-Right in 1997, he trotted out the familiar line about the media ignoring the skeletons in other parties’ closets – so we moved on to people he consorts with at the European Parliament.
Frottage is co-president of the Europe of Freedom and Democracy group, which includes representatives of far-Right groups such as the Danish People’s Party and the Italian Lega Nord.
He explained that I would need a better understanding of European politics to understand why he sits at the helm.
Later, the tale of feeling uncomfortable on a train when foreign languages are spoken caused him to squirm.
This was due to the simple expedient of pointing out that his own wife and daughters speak ‘foreign’ and presumably do so in public.
So tissue-thin are his principles he attempted to claim that his wife wouldn’t speak German  ‘on a train’ before trying to shift the conversation to primary schools. I was happy to follow.

'He sneered, stumbled, spoke of employing an auditor and finally looked up in shock as his communications director tried to halt proceedings, eventually "helping" Frottage from the studio by those tailored lapels'
It was, though, the Romanians that tipped it over the edge. As he attempted to defend feeling ‘deeply uncomfortable’ about the prospect of having some live next door, I wondered why it would be any different from having, say, German neighbours.
The mask slipped. ‘You know what the difference is,’ he said, before embarking upon an aside about people-trafficking.
I asked about Romanians, he talked about people-traffickers. I asked about Germans, he talked about easily identifiable ‘difference’.
I have no explanation for this save a conviction on Frottage’s part that one’s country of origin or ethnicity determines one’s values and decency.
When we moved on to the  question of his finances, events took an even stranger turn.
Asked why he had reverse - ferreted on a pledge to publish his personal accounts, I offered him the transparency agreement employed by every Labour MEP in the European Parliament.
He sneered, stumbled, spoke of employing an auditor and finally looked up in shock as communications director Patrick O’Flynn tried to halt proceedings, eventually ‘helping’ Frottage from the studio by those tailored lapels.
It was a remarkable conclusion. There is, of course, nothing racist about being concerned  by immigration levels or Brussels bureaucracy. Just as there is nothing racist about most people tempted to vote UKIP.
But when the man who leads the party lets his mask slip briefly, as it did on Friday, it is hardly surprising that people are beginning to ask questions about his convictions.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2631581/What-need-know-Nigel-Frottage-vote-Thursday-

I've always known that people are just people.  The packaging, the language they speak, the accident of their country of birth, they don't matter.  It's what they do, say and think that matters.

[JerseyKloppite]

What? WHAT? Seriously? What the actual fuck? REALLY? Jesus fucking arsehole cunting wept.........

If you weren't already banned by someone else, you'd be gone for that, you staggeringly oafish ignorant fuckwit tosser!!!!

I am genuinely terrified for the future of this country. At least here we can get rid of one twat at a time.

[Devon Red]

why do you guys think controlled immigration is bad? US, Canada, Australia have controlled immigration.

The EU is a similar size to the USA. There is uncontrolled immigration between American states as part of your federal system. The EU is still a way from being a true federal system but for a long time it's been recognised by most of Europe that putting closed borders between the relatively small member countries of the EU is bad for business and really inconvenient for a lot of people.

Roughly the same number of UK citizens live in other EU countries as other EU citizens live in the UK.

There are some big divides between American states on unemployment, wages, social provisions etc. Do you think that a sensible way to solve this would be to restrict free movement between states?

[Rome-77]

[24/7]

Oh that's just golden and I hope it's true! Additionally, how embarrassingly non-British of her to 'flip the bird' as opposed to the more traditional 'v-sign'. Epic insult fail.....

[TravisBickle]

 UKIP is essentially a circus.

 Whether you support them or despise them as I do, they fulfil the same role: to confirm your existing opinions of them. I have always seen Frottage as a fraud. He is a privately educated former city trader who used to be a member of the Conservative Party, his only reason for leaving being that they became too liberal. The hierarchy is a similar group of rabid Thatcherites who think the British Empire was a good thing and do little to hide their contempt for foreigners. When a story crops up about a councillor wanting to shoot "poofters" or an MEP wanting Muslims to sign a code of conduct promising not to wage a jihad against Britain, it doesn't shock me. It simply confirms that they are a bunch of bigoted regressives.

 On the other hand, if you support them, everything they do confirms how wonderful they are. They're just "telling the truth" and "saying what everyone else is scared to say". You go along with Frottage's man of the people act, take any opportunity you can to jump on the anti-immigrant bandwagon and somehow attribute every ill faced by British society on "faceless Brussels bureaucrats".

 These two groups existed before UKIP became as prominent as they have done and will continue to exist no matter what happens.

 What concerns me is the group who have started supporting UKIP in the last couple of years. These aren't people who fit into either group I just described and on the whole they could be described as apolitical. They don't like the Tories, they don't like Labour and they don't like the Lib Dems. UKIP are a very vocal alternative and they tap into the fears and insecurities held by these people - housing shortages, low paid jobs, strain on the health service and on education. It's almost as if desperation has thrown them into the arms of a bunch of people who genuinely could not care less about them.

 We saw something very similar happen in America with the Tea Party. Foreign wars, economic crises, politicians that fail to address the issues faced by ordinary people despite promising to change things; it all adds up and turns into something very, very nasty. Fascism is a grassroots movement and it takes a while to spread.

 Personally I'm more concerned about the actual government right now. The Tories are every bit as cruel as UKIP but their position of power makes them far more dangerous for the time being. It's convenient we have Nick Clegg to attack Frottage every day, just to distract us from the scum he shares a bed with...

[gamble]

Unfortunately, in Britain there is a certain section of society who quickly and forcefully involve themselves in any debate concerning the merits of unrestricted vs. controlled immigration in order to portray anyone with a legitimate, moderate view as a racist. This is very unhelpful as it does nothing other than cause those who would ordinarily favour control in the form of a sensible, practical immigration policy to simply throw their lot in with those parties who genuinely have a dislike of foreigners.

My girlfriend is "foreign" and is a wonderful, compassionate, intelligent person who contributes to both our society and economy and I would hate it to get to a stage where others like her cannot come here and help us drive the country forward, but we cannot go on as we are with net migration being in the hundreds of thousands while already we have a terrifying lack of houses and adequate public services.

Why does it have to be one way though? Why do you want to pick and choose between immigrants but not the people who are naturally born here? Your girlfriend is an example of someone nice coming here but why do we have to support British people who aren't compassionate, who aren't intelligent, who don't contribute to the society and economy?

[Libertine]

She was on the Sunday Politics show this morning (the south-east local part) and was every bit as odious as that post makes out. Arrogant beyond belief as well, certain that UKIP will get 5 of 10 seats in the southeast constituency (though given the electorate here that may not be beyond the bounds of possibility) and delighting in the fact that the Lib Dems will get "destroyed" on Thursday. Which just confirmed my decision to vote Lib Dem.

[Rome-77]

https://www.facebook.com/pages/UKIP-A-Dangerous-Organization/356250794478897

[viteslesrouges]

Why does it have to be one way though? Why do you want to pick and choose between immigrants but not the people who are naturally born here? Your girlfriend is an example of someone nice coming here but why do we have to support British people who aren't compassionate, who aren't intelligent, who don't contribute to the society and economy?

Any chance that you can expand on what you mean in the section I've bolded?

[gamble]

in a bit of a rush so can't expand, but basically there's prejudice in Greg's and UKIP's argument. They want to pick and choose who comes here, they want to pick and choose society. Greg wants people like his girlfriend, Frottage would rather live next to a German than a Romanian ("because you know why") - but I don't see why I for example have to live next to an anti-social, benefit scrounging lazy prick who won't work unless you pay him a wage that funds his lifestyle.

You can't have two classes of citizens in a society.

[TravisBickle]

in a bit of a rush so can't expand, but basically there's prejudice in Greg's and UKIP's argument. They want to pick and choose who comes here, they want to pick and choose society. Greg wants people like his girlfriend, Frottage would rather live next to a German than a Romanian ("because you know why") - but I don't see why I for example have to live next to an anti-social, benefit scrounging lazy prick who won't work unless you pay him a wage that funds his lifestyle.

You can't have two classes of citizens in a society.

 Oh, you read the Daily Mail you mean?

[TepidT2O]

Oh, you read the Daily Mail you mean?

I don't think you've got his point.

I think his point is this:  he'd rather people who were contributing to a healthy society whatever their nationality....

Ie he would put an immigrant who contributes to Britain ahead of a "British" person who chooses not too...

Or that's how I interpreted it anyway

[gamble]

Yes tepid has got my point right. Basically if you accept democracy you can't pick and choose between society.

And I'm definitely not some daily mail right wing prick, you couldn't be more wrong if you tried but thanks for the laugh!

[Millie]

why do you guys think controlled immigration is bad? US, Canada, Australia have controlled immigration.

We do have controlled immigration

[TravisBickle]

Yes tepid has got my point right. Basically if you accept democracy you can't pick and choose between society.

And I'm definitely not some daily mail right wing prick, you couldn't be more wrong if you tried but thanks for the laugh!

 What do you mean "pick and choose between society"?

 I apologise if I got you wrong but "lazy benefit scroungers" are a cornerstone of Daily Mailery as I'm sure you're aware, hence the confusion.

[Millie]

I am sure Nepal is really grateful that Frottage recognises their vital contribution to the UK

[24/7]

I am sure Nepal is really grateful that Frottage recognises their vital contribution to the UK

Joanna Lumley he is certainly not!

[dave 5516]

I've checked, and I can confirm that his comment is not official UKIP policy. You can have my word on that.

Are you taking the piss outta me?

When was murder any party's policy...FFS!!!!

They don't have any policies of their own...what they are is the right wing of the Tories,unwhipped.Most people aren't interested in the EU,what they're concerned about is making their money stretch from payday to payday.

Don't reply as I'm done with you..you're a  bigot as far as I'm concerned....don't like what I said, report me I'll take a ban.

[Millie]

https://www.facebook.com/events/533156476795000/

[24/7]

Don't reply

It's okay. He can't. For the reasons you correctly stated.

[Millie]

Joanna Lumley he is certainly not!

 

[zebenzui]

in a bit of a rush so can't expand, but basically there's prejudice in Greg's and UKIP's argument. They want to pick and choose who comes here, they want to pick and choose society. Greg wants people like his girlfriend, Frottage would rather live next to a German than a Romanian ("because you know why") - but I don't see why I for example have to live next to an anti-social, benefit scrounging lazy prick who won't work unless you pay him a wage that funds his lifestyle.

You had me up to there. Where I had to wonder why anyone would take a job that didn't fund their lifestyle, isn't that the only reason to have a job in the first place?

We do have controlled immigration

Is right.

We have a lower immigrant population than France, Germany, US and Australia as a percentage.

[dave 5516]

It's okay. He can't. For the reasons you correctly stated.

Thanks J.

I'm the reason James is always saying "read then post" I had to stop replying to him and stay out of the thread last night as I was on the cusp of calling him all the c*nts under the sun.

Whomever it was that banned him....well done.

[viteslesrouges]

You had me up to there. Where I had to wonder why anyone would take a job that didn't fund their lifestyle, isn't that the only reason to have a job in the first place?

Me too.  Though most folk have to tailor their life-style to their income, ever downward it seems.

Is right.

We have a lower immigrant population than France, Germany, US and Australia as a percentage.

Didn't know this, interesting.

My wife like Frottage's is from a foreign land and my children have suffered discrimination, even at their Primary school..........................from some of the teaching staff.

[Millie]

Joanna Lumley he is certainly not!

Out of interest I asked a Citizen of that great nation what he though about Frottage - answer "he can fuck off"