Topic: Supporting Jurgen Klopp and the team through this injury ravaged season

[kasperoff]

We just need to see that fire back and take it from there. We look like we were back against West Ham, then it was a poor again against Brighton.

Get the belief and passion back and see what happens. Lots of games left, but we need Man City to stutter big time. I guess we can do out own bit by beating them tomorrow. I fancy our changes. We don't seem to struggle as much when a team is a bit more expansive like City surely will be.

Whatever happens, the CL win and the PL win will keep me happy for a very long time and I'll always be confident we will push for titles again as long as Klopp is with us.

[Hazell]

Brilliant thread, and some terrific posts from Timbo, Keyop, DeFacto, Dougle, Ghost Town and loads of others.

This lot has given me some of the most joyful moments in my life, in the darkest of times, when everything else around me was in the shit, they've won everything I wanted to see them and us win, I can't ask for anymore than they have already given. Klopp once said, if we are going to fail, then we're going to fail beautifully [or something to that extent]. But we aren't failing because we are past it, but because this season, things haven't gone our way, when it rains, it pours, but that will come to an end, one way or another, it always does, the good and the bad.

See yous around

Immediately after the game on Wednesday was as low as I've felt about our season and I stayed away from the main forum after the game (though I did read a teensy bit) but like you and others have said, this is the best side I've seen and it's given me some of my favourite moments watching us, even taking out the last couple of years, beating the Mancs in the Europa League (like mentioned above), the 4-3 against Man City, the 2018 Champions League run - and watching this team grow from a so-so team to one of the best teams around and having the trophies to back that up is the best thing Klopp's done. Yeah, this season has been awful for a multitude of reasons already covered but that's the way it goes sometimes, things usually don't go as well as you'd want them to. Fuck knows what's going to happen between now and the end of the season but either way, if I can't enjoy this team irrespective of out current form, then I won't enjoy anything.

[Charlie Adams fried egg]

Just seen this. Thank you Timbo and to all the other great posts.
Even you Jred and I’m not being a twat here, I’m made up you said what you did.

I think it was Timbo again who said something about knowing instinctively what we need to do.

[Spanish Al]

Timbo, Keyop 

Up the fucking Reds.

[4pool]

I'm just glad Jurgen is our manager and he has surrounded himself with a great staff and team.

I feel confident they will sort the issues. Maybe not as soon as some may want ( or demand the way some post in here).

The trophies will come ( again). Of that i'm sure.   

Up the Mighty Reds 

[mickeydocs]

Yes as frustrating as it is to know that if we had a ‘normal’ season of injuries, we’d probably have walked the league. It’s turned out to be a freak campaign so far and we just have to accept it.

We have to accept it and be ready for next season when we'll be back to our ruthless best.
Thanks to Timbo for starting this fantastic thread. Up the fucking reds!!!

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Bloodyhell - what a coincidence John lad.  I was thinking of doing the very same thing!!! 

Like the wisdom bit - just call me fucking Solomon!!! LOL

 

Just reading through some of the posts above makes me really proud to be a Red and to share the forum with Reds like you lot. It's what and who we are. It's in a real Liverpudlian's DNA. It's not any air of superiority - it's just knowing instinctively the heart, soul and culture of what being a Liverpudlian entails and has done certainly for as long as I remember, dating right back to Shanks and no doubt to Elisha Scott.

So many heartfelt sentiments to underpin what Keyop and myself were at pains to highlight both in the Brighton and Bobby Firmino threads. We're supporters not followers. When the chips are down that's when we are most needed to show our support. We can't do it in the ground just now but we can do it on the likes of these forums and display to all and sundry that we know what being a Red really means. This manager and this team have earned a loyalty almost like never before. Whatever happens from here on in - THAT is fact.


Some superb stuff but must make special reference to De Facto's post - wow. Real proper 'got yer education from the Kop' Liverpudlian sentiments in every line. But thanks to all. It's made an arl arse feel very proud.

Cheers Timbo, much appreciated like all of your posts, it's great to see different generations of folks with vast experiences galvanize together.

[keyop]

Great posts in here from DeFacto, Dougle and Ghost Town, and thanks again Timbo for your kind words and solidarity.

Someone wrote about trauma on another thread (think it was Son of Spion) which would be good to see again in here, as it eloquently explained how lots of small traumas in football (as in life) build up over time to create one big one that really hits you despite being able to ride out the smaller ones.

I wrote the original list of issues we've faced before Matip's season ending injury, and before we lost Alisson, Mane and Fabinho, so the challenges won't go away. As some have pointed out, the players out injured some weeks could form part of a team capable of getting top 4.

I've never been one for social media, and this season I've heard it's more toxic than ever. Part of that is the pandemic, the frustrations of life as well as football, and our inability to contribute from the stands. But it's always better to address problems with reason, with facts, and with perspective. In difficult times in life and football I've often found this site a (mostly) stable ship in a stormy sea, and somewhere I can come to hear the wisdom of others.

It's a genuine privilege to have such a collection of true supporters from around the world in one place  - now more than ever.

[Ratboy3G]

It is simply beyond me as a supporter to comprehend how anyone who knows the merest thing about this game of ours can expect the repeatedly makeshift sides we've been forced to field all season to perform with any consistency to the level we all crave and have been privileged to witness over the previous three high octane seasons.

It is simply not possible.

The fact we are still somehow so reasonably well placed in both Premier League and Champions league in the face of the unparalleled adversity is a credit to Klopp and his staff and the players we have been able to field. Indeed, a real bonus at this moment which we should not be taking as much for granted as some of our followers seem to be.

I have followed this club since the days of the Boys pen in the late '50's and I can assure everyone on this board that this is not simply the worst injury crisis the club has ever experienced, it is two or three times worse than anything I recall and has wrought havoc with the team in a way I've never seen before.

How Jurgen has still managed to keep the show moreorless on the road I'm buggered if I know. I recall Shanks in the late '60's bemoaning bitterly that an early season injury to Alec Lindsey which forced Shanks to play Gordon Milne at left back was the difference between Liverpool winning the league and finishing behind the eventual champions.

One fucking long term injury!!! One!!!

God knows what the next four months holds in store - and who would put it past this team to still surprise us all - but for goodness sake let's all remember the stark reality of this season. That we have been well and truly fucked left, right and centre and that Klopp and the team need us to as supporters to stand firm and show our support in the only manner we currently can - which is on these godforsaken message boards.

And just as a reminder to everyone who might think I'm merely making excuses I'm re-posting Keyop's brilliant analysis from just a week or so ago of exactly where we've been fucked right, left and centre. And bear in mind that since he wrote it we've gone on to lose three more world class players in Sadio, Fabinho and Allison - hopefully for a short term.

Eat your fucking heart out Shanks, my all time hero. You really think you were unlucky back then!! You really didn't know you were born mate 



KEYOP'S POST

After a dominant and scintillating demolition of Hodgson’s Palace, the media, fans, bookmakers, players and manager were indicating that all was good with Liverpool FC, and this could be a successful title defence that all the injuries and misfortune couldn’t alter - just as a pandemic couldn’t stop us last year.

Fast forward a mere 5 weeks and 5 premier league games, and the narrative seems very different. We’re no longer odds on favourites, our biggest rivals are top of the league and 6 points ahead of us, the injuries and the last 2 seasons have caught up with us, and the media, players and even Jurgen himself are no longer expressing the positivity of our pre-Christmas position. We haven’t become like this overnight or by chance, but judging by the way some fans are reacting, it would certainly seem that way. Questions about individual players, the manager, the owners, and the perceived lack of investment show that some people can swing from believers to doubters in a much shorter space of time than it took Klopp to convince us otherwise.

Like many other fans, I thought Palace was the turning point – a message to the rest of the league that we won’t give up without a fight, and that we are still the best team in the league. What has happened since is far more complex and nuanced than the media will have us believe, and isn’t just down to losing key players, some players being off form, a run of bad luck, or inconsistent VAR decisions. It’s all of these and much more, and we’ve seen it all played out on the pitch over the last 6 months.

This thread is about why we are in our current position, and what we can do to get out of it. I’m tired of reading lists of players that will solve everything for us, or players that we need to sell, or players that can’t be arsed, or what Jurgen is doing wrong - anyone peddling that on here has clearly been asleep since 2017 and forgotten that we were top on Christmas day.

Our last 5 games makes for difficult reading. A sequence of P5 W0 D3 L2 and 3 points is our worst run in a very long time, against opposition we despatched with clockwork regularity in the last 2 seasons. It’s also coincided with other teams putting together more consistent runs, and displacing us from 1st to 4th (and possibly down to 5th if Everton win on Wednesday). However, there are plenty of signs that all is not lost – our underlying numbers are still good, we are creating the chances, and as bad as this 5 game sequence looks - it does contain clean sheets and only 3 goals conceded - which may sound like clutching at straws, but at least shows we’re not being breached very often and nor have we had any collapses like the 7-2 at Villa. Our defensive woes are creating all sorts of issues further forward, but they are not resulting in Alisson picking the ball out of the net any more often than last season – and certainly not since we lost Virgil and Gomez.

Losing our home record is disappointing but it was always going to happen at some point. A win against Burnley last week and suddenly its corner turned, home record preserved, and onto Utd today to get our momentum going again. Fine margins. A home 1-0 loss to Burnley would also have seemed much less of an issue in amongst a few wins. Clearly losing the best defensive pairing in the world isn’t the only issue, any more than buying a centre back would solve all our problems (although I do think a new CB is a big part of the overall solution - at least in the short-medium term).

I posted the summary below in another thread before the Burnley game, and that thread quickly descended into the usual kneejerk hyperbole that is sadly as predictable as night turns to day for some of our fan base. I’d argue that the challenges faced by Klopp and our squad are unlike anything any of us have seen before, and the chain reaction of events since that fateful day at Goodison Park have created a set of circumstances, patterns, and dilemmas that even a coach like Klopp can’t easily fix.


Virgil gets injured, so we play Matip with Gomez. No doubt a drop in quality, but manageable and still one of the best pairings in the league. We lose Virgil’s arial dominance at both ends of the pitch.

Thiago gets injured – just after we’d seen him break the PL record for most passes and pass accuracy in his first 45 minutes versus Chelsea. We were great without him, but no doubt a big blow to Klopp and the team who would’ve been excited at the prospect of him taking us to the next level.

Gomez gets injured so we play Fabinho with Matip. The defensive line moves back, and the midfield move back. We lose the pace of Virgil and Gomez, who were both great at bringing it out of defence and setting up attacks. Lets also not forget that those two seemed to forge an almost telepathic understanding over the last 2 seasons – something that is irreplaceable in any team.

Jota gets injured – an astute signing that very few of us expected, who added a different dimension to our attack, allowed us to rotate the forwards, and scored vital goals. His absence has been felt as much as anyone.

Trent and Robertson become more risk-averse as they know Matip and Fabinho don’t have the recovery pace, so don’t bomb forward as much – even if Henderson has the legs to help cover both sides.

The front 3 see less overlapping attacks from the fullbacks, and play is slower with more touches taken and a little indecisiveness creeping in as the team slowly adjusts to the situation. Our speed in transition has dropped significantly, and the fearless runs forward where we overwhelmed the opposition just aren't there due to the necessary adjustments we've made all over the pitch.

With less threat from our full backs, Mane and Salah drift out wide more often, where they’re perfectly capable of beating their man, but are far less of a goal threat.

Our press is nowhere near as effective without Fabinho and Henderson playing in midfield, which gives the opposition more time on the ball and more time to regain their shape when they've lost possession. They are two of the fittest , most versatile, and positionally-aware midfielders in Europe, and the drop in quality to Keita, Ox, Milner or Jones is massive.

The opposition adjust to our new situation - instead of having to deal with our front 3, plus our full backs and a midfielder marauding forward (a 6-man attack at times), opposition defences can start to play narrower, creating a wall for us to get through, and less gaps for us to break the lines. We often resort to deep crosses from the fullbacks or Henderson to mitigate this, which are far easier to defend against.

Matip gets injured again, and whilst we initially played untested players at CB earlier in the season, Klopp pairs Henderson with Fabinho for some stability. Our defensive line drops even deeper due to the lack of pace to deal with counter attacks, which naturally pulls our midfield back. Without Thiago we lack a complete midfield controller. Without Henderson covering every blade of grass, some gaps start to appear in our shape. Our position on the pitch during games is often markedly different to last season where we compressed the play, forced mistakes and regained possession high up the pitch which led to so many goals.

Without both Henderson and Fabinho, our midfield and attacking shape changes. Players like Kieta and Ox are in and out of the team due to injury or form, and Wijnaldum plays virtually every game and can’t do it all himself. Jones had showed great promise early on but will need time to settle and find consistency. Players like Minamino and Origi show glimpses but can’t step up to fill the gap in quality. Shaqiri looks a stronger option but hasn’t got the consistency of fitness or form to be a guaranteed long-term solution.

With so many injuries and so many changes to our line-ups, our rhythm inevitably drops and our form is affected. The speed of our play is slower and there is a hesitancy in some of our moves, players start misplacing passes, with the front often 3 snatching at chances and receiving the ball in less dangerous positions.

There is unfamiliarity between players right across the pitch. They might see each other every day in training, but nothing compares to a competitive match for team chemistry and understanding. Players that would see familiar teammates next to them are seeing different faces, players out of position, players making runs they’re not used to, and with all due to respect to some of them - players that are of a lower quality. Wijnaldum has played with just about every possible different combination of players already and doesn't have Fabinho and Henderson beside him. Midfielders coming back from injury or poor form are trying to replicate a system that has an energy and ability they can't match, and they no longer have the fullbacks as a regular attacking outball, and are drawn deeper to protect the defence. Firmino's role is less clear, as he's torn between playing deeper or making runs, and he sees Mane/Salah out wide more often and marked more closely. Mane/Salah are missing the benefits of a high defensive line and a midfield press that saw them regularly receive the ball in transition with the opposition completely out of shape and red shirts swarming into the box.

The psychological effects of seeing teammates have season-ending or medium-term injuries cannot be understated – especially when its our best players who were instrumental to everything we’ve achieved under Klopp. These are mentality monsters but also human beings. The media, fans, players, and even Klopp himself have adopted a more downbeat tone recently, with Klopp in particular looking off form and a bit spiky in front of the camera. He remains a great leader and coach, but there's no doubt this has all taken its toll on him and the players, and he must be gutted to see all the hard work of the last few years be undone by so many injuries to key players.

The lack of fans is also a massive factor for us, and whilst this is the same situation for all clubs, there's no doubting the difference we make in the stands, and the connection we create with the manager and players when they need a lift. To make matters worse, opposition players and the officials aren't experiencing the power of Anfield, which we know down the years plays a big part in how games turn out. Just ask Messi.

Add in other short term injuries (Alisson, Trent, Milner, Tsimikas, Fabinho, Henderson), plus the VAR inconsistencies that have impacted us (and benefited our rivals), plus players having/recovering from Covid, and it’s been a fairly traumatic 6 months for the whole club. The players are also no doubt carrying some mental and physical fatigue from the herculean efforts of the last 2-3 seasons.


I've highlighted in bold what we've faced, which is unlike anything I've ever seen. These aren’t excuses for our current position. They are the reasons. Anyone in doubt about player quality, motivation, effort, or form simply needs to read all of statements in bold and ask themselves what would happen at other clubs under the same circumstances.

People slagging off individual players need to remember we were top on Christmas day and this is arguably the first difficult patch any of these players have hit in 3 seasons. Those suggesting we need to dismantle the team, or sell key players who might be past their peak are overlooking the fact that we’d probably be well clear of the pack again without the issues we’ve faced. We added Thiago and Jota as the cherry on the cake after last season, and with those two plus a fully fit squad we’d be unstoppable. People slagging off our 'tight' owners for not buying more players need to go for a walk in Stanley Park and look at that beautiful main stand. Go to Kirkby and see our state-of-the-art new training complex, check out the plans for the new Anfield Road stand, and remember it was FSG that brought Klopp to the club in the first place. Expecting owners to be devoted, charitable football lovers is naive in the extreme - this isn't the 1980's, and football has been on this financial trajectory for over 3 decades now. We’re also in the middle of a pandemic, which is a financial caveat that cannot be ignored.

I do wonder if Utd being top is more of a factor for some fans, and if we’d had this poor run and it was City, Leicester, or Spurs top of the league, perhaps there would be a little more calm and less knee jerking. Taking into account all of the factors listed above we’re doing incredibly well to still be in the hunt. It's not even halfway for us yet, and as we’ve seen with other teams – the table is so compressed and unpredictable that you can go from mid-table to top (or from top to 7th/8th) in a short space of time this season, so if we can find solutions to some of the above issues then we have every chance of number 20 this year.

It won’t be easy and might not happen overnight, but we are a club that always triumphs in the face of adversity like no-one else can, and keeps on fighting no matter what. Klopp, his staff and these players will find solutions and the form and results will return. Thiago is finding his feet, Jota is on his way back, and we might still buy a CB this transfer window. It’s unlikely that we will get the same bad luck and injuries in the second half of the season, and more likely that other teams might have similar issues (De Bruyne and Vardy out for 4-6 weeks shows that no team is indestructible). There is also no doubting that City, Leicester, Utd and Spurs are far more reliant on one or two individual players than we are, and I’d argue that Utd are a Fernandez injury away from a collapse – just like city with Laporte last season.

So where do we go from here – buy a CB? Change the formation? Go heavy metal and play risk/reward football until May? Or stick where we are and play our way back into form and out of this situation?

We are only 18 games in and a lot can (and will) change for us, and for all the other teams over the coming months. This is arguably the biggest test Klopp and these players have faced, but I have complete faith that they will find a way. As always with this wonderful club, when we’re in the middle of the storm we will always walk on until we find the golden sky.

https://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=346846.0

Fantastic post and a great idea for a thread,Timbo 👍

[keyop]

I found his post and I hope he doesn't mind me adding it here, as it's completely in tune with the general feel of the thread and where we are. It's a post with not only insights, but more importantly - a sense of genuine warmth and care about our club and for other people.

I finally got around to reading this thread and, yes, that is a wonderful post at the top of it, Keyop.

To be honest, what you highlight are things I think most of us are aware of, but have maybe also lost sight of too. It's only when we list the issues and see them in print that the gravity of the situation is fully revealed. We are living in times the likes of we've never known before. When I stop and think about it for a moment, I realise that I've basically been living on autopilot for about a year. Coping daily with things one at a time so as not to feel overwhelmed.

In a way, I've done this with the football too. Reacting to one thing at a time rather than wanting to look at the whole picture. I often fail at that too, hence my current disillusion with the game in general. It all gets a bit too much for me, so I have to withdraw a bit sometimes. I'm aware of the bigger picture, but I often try to avert my eyes to it.

Your post goes on to nail that bigger picture in print, and when it's seen in print the starkness of the reality hits home. Putting aside world events for a moment and just talking about LFC, I've never known a season like this. It truly has been a perfect storm, and I think Klopp and the squad have done remarkably well to still be in the mix. Of course, the tide will eventually turn, but make no mistake, this has been a crisis like no other on-pitch crisis we have faced in a very long time. I've never known anything like it, and I'm 58 now.

My qualifications are in counselling/therapy, and I often find that what sinks people in life is not a one-off traumatic event or experience. It's more often a collection of smaller things coming together all at once. Say you have a shit job that you hate, but you have a loving partner at home. There is yin and yang in your life, so you endure the bad to experience the good. That's a basic example, but I'm sure people will know what I mean. So long as we have something good to hold on to, we can feel strong enough to carry on.

Now if we translate that into the game currently, pretty much everything that could go wrong, has gone wrong.  Extraordinary injuries, staggeringly incompetent officiating that has cost us dear. Illness within the squad. Poor form but with no fans to help lift the players. It becomes a negative drip-feed that saps both mental and physical energy and confidence. It's not one trauma we can move on from, but more a death by a thousand cuts. It's a lot of crucial things going wrong at crucial times, and it's that which can really do some damage. It does so with individuals because they can lose sight of the light at the end of the tunnel, and it can also do so within the club and the fanbase if we are not careful. Individual things that could normally be coped with and dealt with can actually overwhelm you if they all seem to come at once or in rapid succession.

I always advocate looking after the small things in life, because big things are made up of a collection of small things. Our success is not just down to one man, it's down to a lot of the right components being brought together at the right time. If you like, the most beautiful jigsaw is made up of many, many pieces, and they are all as important as each other to the finished article. Currently, it might feel like we are trying to put the jigsaw back together after it fell off the table, whilst in the dark, with pieces that have disappeared under the couch, but we'll get there because we know the components are there and just need finding again and putting back into place.

But anyway, yes, it's been a perfect storm where everything has gone to pot. A negative drip-feed. A gradual downward spiral. Alongside that, I think it wise that we all realise the gravity of what's been happening and also realise that, given the circumstances, we are actually doing ok and things will without doubt improve.

[planet-terror]

Spot on.
Can't realistically expect us to perform at previous levels with the amount of injuries. 

[Shaneee.]

At the end of the storm theres a golden sky. We will be alright 

[McrRed]

THIS is why I joined - and stayed with - rawk. Not only top quality writing, but top quality optimism.

You can go any old place for the negativity - buckets and buckets of the shite (usually dressed up as realism) but there's a reason why YNWA became our anthem and not some little ditty about bubbles or Ford Zephyrs - YNWA because of the indomitable spirit of hope and optimism enshrined in the words and the passion in the melody.

Walk on, people!

[Son of Spion]

I found his post and I hope he doesn't mind me adding it here, as it's completely in tune with the general feel of the thread and where we are. It's a post with not only insights, but more importantly - a sense of genuine warmth and care about our club and for other people.

Hi mate.

Thanks for the kind words. No, I don't mind you reposting that in here at all. It's nice that you feel it has place in this excellent and uplifting thread.
 

[El Lobo]

An absolute embarrasment from start to finish

Why don’t you save your whinging, negative fucktardary for a moaning thread rather than the single one on here trying to keep some positivity?

[RedSince86]

This season is an anamoly, a season for the ages with injuries,no fans and shit VAR.

We go again next season.

[Red-Soldier]

An absolute embarrasment from start to finish

Great post this! 

[jillcwhomever]

An absolute embarrasment from start to finish

Not what this thread about.   

[JonnyCigarettes®]

An absolute embarrasment from start to finish

Only use words that you can spell.

[Dim Glas]

Time to circle the wagons in a big way. Sadly, it won’t happen anywhere but here and a couple other solid places.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

An absolute embarrasment from start to finish

Do one Dan.

[JRed]

Ah well. Top 4 it is then.
Top 4 and Champions league winners?
That will do for me!

[No666]

Walk on through the wind, walk on...

[jillcwhomever]

Walk on walk on Reds. 

[Son of Spion]

An absolute embarrasment from start to finish

Yes it is.

Although your post was very short, it was an embarrassment from start to finish.

Aren't there enough threads to air your grievances in without polluting this one with negativity?

[jillcwhomever]

I have requested that the post is taken out of this thread guys. So let's just use this thread to back the team rather than go on about one post. 

[Zlen]

Listen folks.
It’s fine, it really is.

Remember how the air smelled on that wonderful summer day when we destroyed Barcelona. Remember the roar you made when Lovren headed against Dortmund. There is magic in football and it will come back. Looking from the deep pit of darkness and despair where stench of Hodgson was saturating the air, this looks like a glorious peak - not a deep hole.

Take a break if you need it. Be close to your family. It’s a crazy and weird time for all. But believe that those sweet smelling nights are coming back and we’ll be there together.

[liversaint]

An absolute embarrasment from start to finish

You utter helmet. Completely misses point of an excellent post and thread.

[Son of Spion]

I have requested that the post is taken out of this thread guys. So let's just use this thread to back the team rather than go on about one post. 

If his post goes, can my reply to also, please. Thanks. 😊

[jillcwhomever]

Listen folks.
It’s fine, it really is.

Remember how the air smelled on that wonderful summer day when we destroyed Barcelona. Remember the roar you made when Lovren headed against Dortmund. There is magic in football and it will come back. Looking from the deep pit of darkness and despair where stench of Hodgson was saturating the air, this looks like a glorious peak - not a deep hole.

Take a break if you need it. Be close to your family. It’s a crazy and weird time for all. But believe that those sweet smelling nights are coming back and we’ll be there together.

Excellence bit of perspective there Zlen. You are right, the good times will come back. Up the Reds.

[jillcwhomever]

If his post goes, can my reply to also, please. Thanks. 😊

No problem. 

[nerdster4]

I don’t buy that the current form is nothing to do with the injuries . Having neither Hendo Nor Fabinho in midfield is killing us . We need to get Kabak or Davis starting if we can’t trust Philips. Jota and Keita playing a role wil make a huge difference. Hendo and Fabinho in central defence is no longer the safe option

[Johnny Foreigner]

Was it written in the match day official commentary that we need to get rid of alison or was that ironical ?

[4pool]

Ok, not our best night today.

But this is where we build, for not only this season, but next season as well.

Onwards and upwards... 

[gazzalfc]

It hurts. But let it hurt.

We've been in far worse positions and come through the other end.

We'll be there again

[jonnypb]

Honestly think that in a strange way we will start playing better now.  The title for this season is more or less gone and I think the players were carrying so much pressure on their shoulders that this has led to mental fatigue.  They had huge expectations from everyone that we'd easily win it again this season after last season.

People are going to write us off in the CL league as well, especially with our 3 main CB's out and that again could work in our favour.

We've had next to no luck this season, but that has to change at some point.  The players have less pressure now and can hopefully start playing how we know how.  Hopefully we can get Kabak and Davies playing together to get Fab and Hendo back into midfield and that will make a huge difference for us.

[Hazell]

Thank God for this thread.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

It's been easy for most of our lot to support this side in the last 4 years. Easy to create an atmosphere when the performances are good and we're winning. Easy to be optimistic and positive, but this is what builds character and times like this [like in life] show actually who is who.

We took pride in being knowledgeable  supporters, and being different. But these last couple of months, have shown some absolute whoppers within and a complete lack of perspective and reality [and knowledge to be frank].

No one has a God given right to win anything.

[No666]

Some great posts in here.
I've asked before - how do we communicate our support to Jurgen and the team?

[Koplass]

I found Roy Keane’s comments last night about us being ‘bad champions’ infuriating. There hasn’t been a team in Premier League history (perhaps, in league history) who has faced the kinds of hurdles we’ve had this year. Last year Man City lost Laporte and their form tanked and everyone said it was understandable because they’d lost their best centre half. We’ve lost our best centre half, AND our second best centre half, AND our third best centre half, AND we’ve had to resort to playing our two best midfielders in defence. The way people are brushing off our injuries or comparing them to City losing De Bruyne for a few weeks is quite remarkable. If I had the choice between not having a single, fit, senior, centre back for the majority of the season or losing Salah for 6 weeks I know which one I’d choose.

On top of that, two of our attacking three have completely lost form, possibly because of the change of system due to our two best central midfielders moving into defence or possibly just because they have. Luckily, we were smart enough in the summer to stock up and bring in a brilliant, young, striker who was scoring goals for fun but guess what? He’s been out INJURED since mid-December.

Oh and let’s not forget at the start of the season when we actually looked like we still had some fight in us, we had more VAR decisions go against us than any other team in the league. I don’t remember too many former champions having goals chalked off because an attacker’s sleeve was offside.

And have any other champions had to play a season condensed like this one? It’s literally unheard of. The schedule has been unrelenting and unsurprisingly that can take its toll when you don’t have £60m full-backs sat on your bench.

And just as the cherry on the cake, has there ever been a set of reigning champions that have had to play the following season without any crowds in the stadium? Has there ever been a team that weren’t able to lift the trophy in front of their supporters? Or parade it around their city on an open-top bus? Or hear their fans singing ‘champions’ week in, week out, to spur them on to go again? Yes, every team has suffered from the lack of crowds, but to win the league after 30 years and not even get to celebrate it? To not get the benefit of that support and adulation? This isn’t even being mentioned by most people but it’s absolutely huge.

So fuck off Roy Keane, you humourless, tactically illiterate, prick! If a single one of your Man Utd teams had had to face even half of the setbacks we’ve had this season they’d have fallen to pieces. And do you think you would have even been crowned champions against this current Man City side? When you were scraping to league titles on 75 points?? 

What our players and our manager have done over the past few years is absolutely remarkable and even if they finish 10th this season I will be proud as punch. We've come up against the biggest financial juggernaut in the history of English football and we beat them! When every other club in the country hasn't even come close to being able to challenge, only Liverpool had the guts and the brains to get close to them. And not only that, but we have the best set of lads you will ever see in your lives, conducting themselves with absolute maturity every week. If you can't be proud of these boys then you're done for.

And finally, Jurgen. This man hasn't just changed the way we view our football club but I think he's changed the way a lot of us view life. He's not just a successful football manager - those people are easy enough to find, it's much harder to find a human being that can change the way you see the world. Jose Mourinho could have come here and won a league title, but he couldn't have made an imprint on my values and beliefs. This man and his attitudes are life-affirming, in the same way I'm told Bill Shankly was. Everything is done with optimism, courage and good humour. So yes, our form might drop off a cliff this season and those in the media who don't like us will be desperate to stick the boot in, but we have the best lads and the best manager we could possibly hope for. A team like this might NEVER come around again, so you better make the most of it.